- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: Idea: The ultimate CD/DVD auditing tool
by Tyler Durden 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

Do you have a reference? I don't remember reading that SACD was encrypted. What I DO remember is that the reason there's no standard SACD or DVD-A digital interface is because the Industry wants that digital interface to be encrypted. -TD >From: Nomen Nescio <nobody(a)dizum.com> >To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com >Subject: Re: Idea: The ultimate CD/DVD auditing tool >Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:30:05 +0200 (CEST) > >Thomas Shaddup writes: > > As a welcomed side effect, not only we'd get a device for circumvention >of > > just about any contemporary (and possibly a good deal of the future >ones) > > optical media "protections" > >This is only for the minimal forms of "protection" which are designed to >work with existing CD/DVD players. If you look at the new audio formats >like SACD, they use encrypted data. All your lasers won't do you any >good unless you can pry a key (and the algorithm!) out of a consumer >player, which won't be easy assuming it is in a tamper-resistant unit. >And you can bet the industry won't make the mistake again of allowing >software-based players, as they did with the DeCSS affair. > >In short, you're fighting yesterday's war. Try looking ahead a bit to >see where the battlegrounds of the future will be contested. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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Re: Idea: The ultimate CD/DVD auditing tool
by Nomen Nescio 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

Thomas Shaddup writes: > As a welcomed side effect, not only we'd get a device for circumvention of > just about any contemporary (and possibly a good deal of the future ones) > optical media "protections" This is only for the minimal forms of "protection" which are designed to work with existing CD/DVD players. If you look at the new audio formats like SACD, they use encrypted data. All your lasers won't do you any good unless you can pry a key (and the algorithm!) out of a consumer player, which won't be easy assuming it is in a tamper-resistant unit. And you can bet the industry won't make the mistake again of allowing software-based players, as they did with the DeCSS affair. In short, you're fighting yesterday's war. Try looking ahead a bit to see where the battlegrounds of the future will be contested.

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Re: Genetic engineering [was: RE: DNA of relative indicts man, cuckol ding ignored]
by Major Variola (ret) 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

At 03:59 PM 7/7/03 -0400, Trei, Peter wrote: >There are some things where nearly everyone will agree >a genetic fix is desirable - for example, suceptibility to >heart disease, cancer, dental caries, and myopia. Other >'vanity' fixes seem pretty harmless - being tall, busty, >or having a well-stuffed package. > >Its when we get to 'fixes' to behaviour and personality >that things start to get very hairy. Although your examples are important, anyone who has or has known someone with depression, schizophrenia, or ADD [1] will argue that *subjectively unpleasant* mental ills are as worth fixing as bad teeth. If not more so. I fear that those in >power will use genetic engineering as they have used >every other tool at their disposal - weapons, states, >laws, and governments - to maintain their position at >the expense of the overall welfare of the species, by >allowing improvements only to their own descendents, >while requiring changes to those out of power which >make it harder for them to change their status. Agreed, as with the rest of your post. There are real horrorshow future possibilities. One more point. What is "adaptive" depends on your environment. As I try to explain to my more pigmented wife (it comes up because my 3.8 year old is in the "why" phase) while I'd get skin cancer in tropical zones, she'd get rickets in more northerly areas. Extrapolate to personality properties like "inhibition" (recently shown to be persistant from 2 to 20 year olds ie genetic) "aggression", etc. [1] Please don't lets start the flame about chemical coercion in mandatory youth education camps. Real ADD fucks people up. Which is not to say that M.Y.E.C. are well designed nor that ADD treatments are abused.

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Denver Post article on mattd/proffr/AP/Jim Bell/cypherpunks
by Declan McCullagh 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~1497971,00.html ... The development of digital money, and encryption software restricting government's ability to monitor Internet activity, are common goals among the online anarchists and libertarians known as "cypherpunks." The ultimate purpose of Assassination Politics is to deter people from working for government agencies, corporate media outlets or institutions "beholden to the violence of the state," Taylor said. Professor Rat also has threatened a University of Ottawa law professor, a columnist for The Boston Globe and a Cincinnati police officer. ... The Post is withholding the names of the subjects of posts by Professor Rat to avoid promoting any specific threats. ... Eugene Volokh, a law professor at the University of California-Los Angeles and a First Amendment specialist, said the threats were probably criminal, given Taylor's description of the purpose of Assassination Politics. ...

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Genetic engineering [was: RE: DNA of relative indicts man, cuckol ding ignored]
by Trei, Peter 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

> Major Variola (ret)[SMTP:mv@cdc.gov] writes: > > What's wrong with voluntary eugenics? The invention of > agriculture started a policy of negative eugenics that culminates > with the industrial welfare state paying stupids to breed, while > others chose birth control. And banning somatic or germ line > fixes to diseases, if you can do them, is as compassionate as > banning insulin. Which isn't even a fix, just a workaround. > > If a germ line fix has an unintended side effect, you either undo it > (revert back to being inclined towards diabetes, if this is preferable > to the side effect, say) or you debug or patch it. Current & historical > medicine is filled with such things for mere *temporary* meds that > don't cure anything. > > "This nasal spray contains a vector with Service Pack 6 for the > germ-line diabetes package installed by your grandfather" > > :-) > Once again, the main problem seems to be the 'thats icky' factor which most people have difficulty getting past. We're seeing it today in the hysteria over human cloning, we will see it in human genetic engineering. We saw it in the past in IVF reproduction, and in organ transplantation - for a while in Britain, cornea transplants were banned - the idea of 'looking through a dead mans eyes' was just too weird. Genetic engineering is a new area where man is seizing control from nature, and is now faced with choices which just didn't exist in the past. How individuals and societies should make these decisions is pretty much uncharted territory. For any proposed change, some people will think it's a bad idea, some people will think its great, and some people won't have an opinion. The proportions (and the reasons) will vary from decision to descision. There are some things where nearly everyone will agree a genetic fix is desirable - for example, suceptibility to heart disease, cancer, dental caries, and myopia. Other 'vanity' fixes seem pretty harmless - being tall, busty, or having a well-stuffed package. Its when we get to 'fixes' to behaviour and personality that things start to get very hairy. I fear that those in power will use genetic engineering as they have used every other tool at their disposal - weapons, states, laws, and governments - to maintain their position at the expense of the overall welfare of the species, by allowing improvements only to their own descendents, while requiring changes to those out of power which make it harder for them to change their status. One scenario: "Mr & Mrs Smith: The No Child Should Fear Act of 2015 requires that your proposed son have the 'bullying' gene deleted if he is to attend publicly funded schools. This is similar to the old requirements for vaccination - we don't want your son to endanger other children, do we? Of course, this also weakens any leadership ability he might have been able to exercise later in life, as well as his tendency to question authority, but if it saves one child from humiliation at the hands of a bully, its worth it. If you don't want to accept this change, you are of course free to send your child to private school, as do most leaders. If you can afford it, that is...." So, who gets to decide what changes are good, and for whom? I know what I want the answer to be, but I'm not certain that is the one that will come to pass. Peter Trei

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Re: DNA of relative indicts man, cuckolding ignored
by Major Variola (ret) 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

At 08:25 AM 7/7/03 -0400, Stormwalker wrote: >The issue of knowing about other people based on one subject's DNA >has been known for for several years. For example, if a a woman >has the BRCA1 or BRCA2 gene (breast cancer), then so does her mother, >sister(s) and daughter(s) because the gene is hereditary. Insurance >companies can/have refused insurance coverage to the subject's relatives >and the relatives have no idea why. Interesting, thanks. Even a brother's daughter could be refused. >Ethical issues have surfaced around the desire of the subject's >relatives not wanting to know if they have a harmful, shared gene. If >the subject tells her relatives abour her gene, then her relatives know >that they have the gene. It's not like I told some them I broke my arm >which only tells them a fact about me. Perhaps this is the basis for the social stigma of mentally ill relatives --it says something (probabilistic) about the speaker. Still, you'll find out when they end up in the hospital. Its useful knowledge to know your genes ---I know adopted people who regret not having any clue. I know that my prostate will explode when I get older. I'd like to know more. Sticking your head in the sand is rarely helpful. >In my opinion, very few people understand the impact of human >understanding of how life is constructed. The science is well understood, >the engineering has just begun. We are taking conscious control of >evolution, far past selective breeding and way past clones. Most descendants of germ-cell-fixed diabetes (etc) will probably not regret the tinkering of their ancestors, unless there are unintended side effects :-) But yeah, interesting times we live in. I've never heard anyone curse their ancestors for the genetic diseases they've inherited, probably because they wouldn't exist except for the ancestors. ("Damn, grandpa, couldn't you have married someone in better health?") Also little good cursing would do. Insurance companies are private entities, so IMHO its moral for them to gather intel (eg, checking blood for nicotine metabolites), or give discounts for folks who've had certain inherited diseases fixed in the future. Or eat better, drive safer, exchange fluids less promiscuously, whatever. I'm more worried about the State, which coerces with violence.

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Secret nanotech spy agency meeting
by Declan McCullagh 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

today... TECHNOLOGY National Academies Meeting of the Committee on Nanotechnology for the Intelligence Community. Closed session summary posted after the meeting Location: Keck Center of the National Academies, 500 5th St., NW, Washington, D.C.. Contact: James Killian, 202-334-1758; http://www.national-academies.org

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Re: Idea: The ultimate CD/DVD auditing tool
by Major Variola (ret) 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

At 02:33 AM 7/7/03 +0300, Sampo Syreeni wrote: >On 2003-07-06, Major Variola (ret) uttered to cypherpunks(a)lne.com: > >>There's a good reason why, viz: it would cost the drive developer to >>allow or export this flexibility. > >I'd guess either because of a) terminal stupidity or b) benefits to scale >in making it sure people go with compatibility. As there probably have to >be some limits to how stupid engineers capable of making things like >writable CD's can be, I'd have to go with the second alternative. Frankly its obvious you haven't worked (or thought about the constraints) on a commercial product with a deadline / resource constraints or worked on something extremely cost sensitive like commodity drives/chipsets. Here, ponder this: why are there no oxygen sensor or manifold temperature or ignition-phase (etc) displays in ordinary cars? (Although there probably are in custom race cars) You know (much like the analog CD signal) they're being measured and used by the ECU. So, why not? Chew on that one for a while, grasshopper. Economics is applied physics.

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Re: DNA of relative indicts man, cuckolding ignored
by Major Variola (ret) 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

At 11:58 AM 7/7/03 +0100, Ben Laurie wrote: >Major Variola (ret.) wrote: >> So the possibility of indicting a cuckolded man on the basis >> of nominal (only) relatives is quite real. > >Only he was convicted because he confessed. Yes, of course, in this *particular* case. Which is irrelevent. The point is that there are undiscussed evidentiary problems using relatives' DNA, hinging on the assumption that "blood relatives actually share blood", in layspeak.

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Austin Cypherpunks Physical Meet, Tue. July 8, 2003
by Jim Choate 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

Time: July 8, 2003 Second Tuesday of each month 7:00 - 9:00 pm (or later) Location: Central Market HEB Cafe 38th and N. Lamar Weather permitting we meet in the un-covered tables. If it's inclimate but not overly cold we meet in the outside covered section. Otherwise look for us inside the building proper. Identification: Look for the group with the "Applied Cryptography" book. It will have a red cover and is about 2 in. thick. Contact Info: http://einstein.ssz.com/cdr/index.html#austincpunks -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage(a)ssz.com jchoate(a)open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org --------------------------------------------------------------------

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