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Re: DNA of relative indicts man, cuckolding ignored
by Neil Johnson 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

On Monday 07 July 2003 07:53 pm, Stormwalker wrote: > > Medical insurance is about maintenence of our lives. You do not > need to participate, but I'll bet if you get hurt, you'll head > to the nearest emergency room. The pool I speak of is simply that > I may need the services now and you may need some later. We all have > shared types of services and very specific service. I will most likely > never need medical services for AIDS, but I have used them for broken > bones. I will never need them for gyno or for giving birth services, > but I may need them for prostrate problems. We all use them when we are > born. > Bzzzzt. Tim is correct. Companies that provide medical insurance are betting that you will require $X dollars of medical treatment and then charge you $Y dollars hoping that $Y > $X (including the interest earned by investing $Y). The problem is that as you get older, the probability of you needing $$$ of medical treatment goes up and even higher if you engage in unhealthy practices (smoking, overeating, etc.). The gubmint's solution to this is what you are talking about... "Medicare". The fundamental assumption is that their are more healthy people than sick ones so that the premiums payed by the healthy people can be used to pay for medical care for the sick. Unfortunately, there are two things wrong with this assumption. 1) Amazing advances in medical technology that allow people who are sick to live longer, but are very expensive, which leads to 2) more older (and less healthy) people than young (and more healthy) people. If we are going to continue with the idea of Medicare then society has a whole must begin to make tough decisions on how to ration healthcare (ever heard of triage ?). Which makes more sense: Spend $X dollars on some 80 year old's heart/lung transplant so he can live another 10 years, or spend that money on make sure an unwed mother's baby is born healthy? (Note: either choice has it's own sets of costs and rewards). -- Neil Johnson http://www.njohnsn.com PGP key available on request.

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Re: Idea: The ultimate CD/DVD auditing tool
by Nomen Nescio 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

Major Variola writes: > Any human-consumable (analogue) input is readily recordable with > a single, one-time ADC, and thereafter is toast. DRM is a fraud > perpetrated by engineers on Hollywood suits. Good for employment > though. There is a loss of quality if you go through an analog stage. Real and wannabe audiophiles will prefer the real thing, pure and undiluted by a reconversion phase. These are the people who are already swallowing the marketing line that the CD bandwidth limit of 22KHz is too low for good fidelity, despite being higher than they can hear. Consider how much more wine from Champagne is worth than that from a village just outside of the appelation limits. People want to feel that they are getting the authentic goods, and they'll pay for them. That's what the RIAA is counting on.

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Re: Finding collision resistant hash functions
by Major Variola (ret) 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

At 02:19 AM 7/7/03 -0700, Sarad AV wrote: or how are we supposed to >find collision free hash functions?What exactly is the >difficulty in finding collision free hash functions? Because there are no collision *free* hash functions, there will always be several domain elements that map to the same range element. Assuming more domain elements than range elements, which is generally what people mean by hashing. You're not asking the right question, you need more constraints on the type of hash functions and their resistance to collisions. You're probably looking for functions that make it hard to intentionally find arguments that produce hashes identical to a given one. There's an incredibly dry taxonomically-inclined downloadable text on this somewhere but the margin of my screen is too small to contain the url. You'll first have to use language more precisely to get any use out of it.

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Re: DNA of relative indicts man, cuckolding ignored
by Tim May 08 Jul '03

08 Jul '03

On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 05:53 PM, Stormwalker wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Tim May wrote: >>> I have to disagree here. Medical insurance is not the same as life >>> or car insurance. It was all supposed to be a big pool that we >>> would >>> draw on when needed. By skimmimng the cream, infant mortality rates >>> rise, along with a host of other problems. >> No, it was NOT "all supposed to be a big pool that we would draw on >> when needed." You seem to be confusing medical insurance with >> nationalized social medicine. > > No, I am not confusing medical insurance with socialized medicine > or anything else. I mentioned life insurance on purpose. That is a > bet on when I will die, they bet later, I bet earlier. Money can > be made - although never by me unless I cheat. > > Medical insurance is about maintenence of our lives. You do not > need to participate, but I'll bet if you get hurt, you'll head > to the nearest emergency room. The pool I speak of is simply that > I may need the services now and you may need some later. We all have > shared types of services and very specific service. I will most > likely > never need medical services for AIDS, but I have used them for > broken > bones. I will never need them for gyno or for giving birth services, > but I may need them for prostrate problems. We all use them when we > are > born. Medical insurance, car insurance, life insurance, home insurance, boat insurance, etc., are all just variations on a theme. When AAA Insurance meets with Joe Sixpack to discuss his health or life or earthquake insurance, they seek to collect enough information to have a reasonable chance of turning a profit on the deal. Else why would they exist as a business? They likely never have complete information, about fault lines, or fire hazards, or unhealthy behavior, but they can manage their risks reasonably well by standard statistical sampling and actuarial data methods. I won't waste my time further arguing your "medial insurance is different" point until you show you have some basic grounding in how the real economy works and can explain why you think medical insurance is somehow exempt from the normal profit/loss considerations. Saying that health care is important is not enough. It's just another purchased service, after all. > > >> Do I really need to explain this concept here, to subscribers here? > > Well, you probably don't need to explain the problems of socialized > medicine, but I would like to hear about how you will do your own > X-Rays or chemotherapy. First, I pay for my own such needs out of my own pocket. Many firms and well-off individuals are "self-insured." Insurance is not something magical, it's just a set of tradeoffs of risk and ability to pay. For those who cannot possibly raise the $100K for a seldom-needed operation, paying $5000 a year in premiums _may_ make sense. Because they perceive the consequences of not having the money to buy the operation, despite its unlikelihood, to be worth the payment each year. And so on, for a range of scenarios. Second, if I wished to have insurance I would buy it. That's how I would get x-rays or chemotherapy. Saying that because I do not share your views about socialized insurance I must plan on making my own x-ray machine or brewing my own cancer chemicals is not only silly, it is disingenuous. > >> Medical insurance is a risk arbitrage betting scheme just like all >> other insurance: the actor selling a policy (a contract) is making the >> bet that he will make more money than he pays out. If he finds out >> something that alters the expectation of some illness or disease or >> hazardous activity, then he adjusts the policy premiums accordingly >> (or >> even refuses to sell a policy at any price, for understandable >> reasons). > > Not any more. See life insurance. Also, please keep in mind that > insurance compnaies do not make their money from premiums, but > from investments of all the premiums they collect and hold. Your > model > is not correct. You're further gone than I thought. --Tim May "The State is the great fiction by which everyone seeks to live at the expense of everyone else." --Frederic Bastiat

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Re: DNA of relative indicts man, cuckolding ignored
by Major Variola (ret) 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

At 08:53 PM 7/7/03 -0400, Stormwalker wrote: >On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Tim May wrote: >> No, it was NOT "all supposed to be a big pool that we would draw on >> when needed." You seem to be confusing medical insurance with >> nationalized social medicine. > > No, I am not confusing medical insurance with socialized medicine > or anything else. I mentioned life insurance on purpose. That is a > bet on when I will die, they bet later, I bet earlier. Money can > be made - although never by me unless I cheat. Not at all. Much like gambling, sometimes you win "randomly" if you stop playing after that. "Random" is a word that means "ignorance" and both you and the insurer are ignorant about your true lifespan. You only play the life-insurance game once :-) > Medical insurance is about maintenence of our lives. You do not > need to participate, but I'll bet if you get hurt, you'll head > to the nearest emergency room. One person's need does not make another a slave. BTW One could argue that driver's insurance is *more* necessary than medical insurance, because to exist daily you need to drive. But again, need and slaves. > Well, you probably don't need to explain the problems of socialized > medicine, but I would like to hear about how you will do your own > X-Rays or chemotherapy. Some pay cash. You can do without car insurance if you post a bond. Others depend on *voluntary* charity --though nowadays this competes with compulsory (taxed) welfare. > Not any more. See life insurance. Also, please keep in mind that > insurance compnaies do not make their money from premiums, but > from investments of all the premiums they collect and hold. Your model > is not correct. You forget that if the insurer bets wrong, they have to pay up and cash in their investments. For certain investments, premature withdrawl costs more than sitting on the cash. Otherwise, like banks, or landlords with deposits, or other putatively free agents, insurers are free to do with their funds as they please. So long as they hold up their end of the contracts they've entered. >The rock climber will probably not have that > heart attack. FWIW, the rock climber's choice of ancestors (!) has more to do with their heart attack (etc) risk than their choice of avocation. >> (There are interesting scenarios for private testing for various genes >> or proclivities, followed by opting-out for the diseases one is highly >> unlikely to contract. This kind of "not paying for what you don't use" >> is a form of cherry-picking which only a total state could outlaw. >> Think about it.) > > This scenario of testing for specific genes is already underway. Stay > tuned. The flip side of Tim's comment is that you can pay extra for things you are at risk for. In a truly free market, insurers would offer packages customized to your risk. Genomic tendancy towards X? Pay more, get more ---including max payout. Little tendancy towards Y? Pay less. Rational people follow Pascal --you include probability in your reasoning about costs. Of course, in a free society, you are free to be irrational, too. (And consume whatever, and enjoy masochism, etc.) [oblig] Those who would constrain those freedoms have earned killing.

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Re: DNA of relative indicts man, cuckolding ignored
by Major Variola (ret) 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

At 08:36 PM 7/7/03 -0400, Stormwalker wrote: > >> What's wrong with voluntary eugenics? The invention of agriculture >> started a policy of negative eugenics that culminates with the >> industrial welfare state paying stupids to breed, while others chose >> birth control. And banning somatic or germ line fixes to diseases, if >> you can do them, is as compassionate as banning insulin. Which isn't >> even a fix, just a workaround. > > I was thinking of eugenics where something was forced upon others, > which I do not think is desirable. Hey, I oppose *anything* which is forced upon others, even if *I* deem it as "good". > The invention of agriculture has not yet culminated. It gave/gives > people time to do other things. Yeah, like raise armies, feed bureaucraps, etc. Still, I don't hold it against the farmers. Besides, the dominant cultures are descendants of farmers. See the writings of Jared Diamond. > Good luck banning germ lines :) > >> If a germ line fix has an unintended side effect, you either undo it >> (revert back to being inclined towards diabetes, if this is preferable >> to the side effect, say) or you debug or patch it. Current & historical >> medicine is filled with such things for mere *temporary* meds that >> don't cure anything. > > Reverting may or not be possible. The products of some germ line > may like what they are and wil lnot revert, no matter what other > folks think. Well, if they *like* it, only violent coercion would cause reversion. I was thinking something like, the diabetes-fix package causes premature death or something bothersome like that. Obviously the "service pack 6 nasal spray" needs to refuse to install on folks without the proper prior install. Also it needs to avoid spurious installation on folks who don't want it ---maybe you have to take a snort of some antibiotic combo at the same time to activate it, which is a current technique used for turning on inserted genes. Later

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Re: Idea: The ultimate CD/DVD auditing tool
by Major Variola (ret) 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

At 08:45 AM 7/7/03 -0700, alan wrote: >But the real issue is that all of these DRM methods rely on "security by >obscurity". Such methods eventually fail. Either the actual method is >discovered and published or the DRM method fails in the marketplace and is >never heard from again. Hilary R and Jack V are *far* more fucked than mere security-by-obscurity. Any human-consumable (analogue) input is readily recordable with a single, one-time ADC, and thereafter is toast. DRM is a fraud perpetrated by engineers on Hollywood suits. Good for employment though.

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Re: Denver Post article on mattd/proffr/AP/Jim Bell/cypherpunks
by Tyler Durden 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

>"The posts made by Professor Rat fall under a relatively new category of >crime known >as "cyberstalking," >said Jim Doyle, a retired New York City >police sergeant who now works as a >cybercrimes consultant for a > >Connecticut company called Internet Crimes. >The statements made by Professor Rat constitute prosecutable offenses, he >said. >"The bottom line is what the victim feels," he said. "Is the victim >threatened? Is the victim alarmed? >Hey, that's a crime." Interesting logic here. Someone writes something not-so-nice about somebody on a list and now that person is being "cyberstalked" even though they're not a subscriber. And now, the stalk-ee is a victim of a crime. And now the person who said something "not-so-nice" has committed a crime. And this guy's a consultant? To whom, I wonder... Funny enough, I don't rmember seeing any of Prof Rat's posts, and I've never even killfiled him. -TD >From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> >To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com >Subject: Denver Post article on mattd/proffr/AP/Jim Bell/cypherpunks >Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:03:54 -0400 > >http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~1497971,00.html > >... > >The development of digital money, and encryption software restricting >government's ability to monitor Internet activity, are common goals among >the online anarchists and libertarians known as "cypherpunks." > >The ultimate purpose of Assassination Politics is to deter people from >working for government agencies, corporate media outlets or institutions >"beholden to the violence of the state," Taylor said. > >Professor Rat also has threatened a University of Ottawa law professor, a >columnist for The Boston Globe and a Cincinnati police officer. > >... > >The Post is withholding the names of the subjects of posts by Professor Rat >to avoid promoting any specific threats. > >... > >Eugene Volokh, a law professor at the University of California-Los Angeles >and a First Amendment specialist, said the threats were probably criminal, >given Taylor's description of the purpose of Assassination Politics. > >... _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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Re: DNA of relative indicts man, cuckolding ignored
by Tim May 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 10:15 AM, Stormwalker wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > >> Insurance companies are private entities, so IMHO its moral for >> them to gather intel (eg, checking blood for nicotine metabolites), >> or give discounts for folks who've had certain inherited diseases >> fixed >> in the future. Or eat better, drive safer, exchange fluids less >> promiscuously, whatever. > > I have to disagree here. Medical insurance is not the same as life > or car insurance. It was all supposed to be a big pool that we would > draw on when needed. By skimmimng the cream, infant mortality rates > rise, along with a host of other problems. No, it was NOT "all supposed to be a big pool that we would draw on when needed." You seem to be confusing medical insurance with nationalized social medicine. Do I really need to explain this concept here, to subscribers here? Medical insurance is a risk arbitrage betting scheme just like all other insurance: the actor selling a policy (a contract) is making the bet that he will make more money than he pays out. If he finds out something that alters the expectation of some illness or disease or hazardous activity, then he adjusts the policy premiums accordingly (or even refuses to sell a policy at any price, for understandable reasons). By the way, any scheme to force everyone into the same insurance pool for the same premiums is profoundly antiliberty and is unconstitutional (violates all sorts of rights). "Opting out" of coverage is always fair. If I know I am not a rock climber, why would I pay for coverage for rock climbing falls? And if I know I am not engaging in queer sex or IV drug use, why would I pay for AIDS coverage/ (There are interesting scenarios for private testing for various genes or proclivities, followed by opting-out for the diseases one is highly unlikely to contract. This kind of "not paying for what you don't use" is a form of cherry-picking which only a total state could outlaw. Think about it.) --Tim May

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Re: DNA of relative indicts man, cuckolding ignored
by Major Variola (ret) 07 Jul '03

07 Jul '03

At 01:15 PM 7/7/03 -0400, Stormwalker wrote: >On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Major Variola (ret) wrote: >> Interesting, thanks. Even a brother's daughter could be refused. > > The BRCA genes are only transmitted through the mother, but > there are many others that go through both lines. Could you explain how this could be? Any gene has a chance of continuing unless its on the father's Y he has only daughters. (Patrilineal surnames behave like this. I believe there's a "Cohen"-surname related gene set.) (Mitochondrial chromos of course are matrilineal always. For clones they come from the surrogate.) Males can always keep any maternal gene going, even if its not expressed. > Unintended side effects are all but guaranteed :( The tinkering > will resemble eugenics at the building block level. Eliminating genetic > diseases will be great, but introducing other things might not be, just > as eliminating some things might be bad. What's wrong with voluntary eugenics? The invention of agriculture started a policy of negative eugenics that culminates with the industrial welfare state paying stupids to breed, while others chose birth control. And banning somatic or germ line fixes to diseases, if you can do them, is as compassionate as banning insulin. Which isn't even a fix, just a workaround. If a germ line fix has an unintended side effect, you either undo it (revert back to being inclined towards diabetes, if this is preferable to the side effect, say) or you debug or patch it. Current & historical medicine is filled with such things for mere *temporary* meds that don't cure anything. "This nasal spray contains a vector with Service Pack 6 for the germ-line diabetes package installed by your grandfather" :-)

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