December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Non Explosive Weapons
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Richard Danzig, new Navy Secretary, op-eds in the NYT today about the threat of "Non Explosive Weapons (NEW)," posed by WMD and information warfare. http://jya.com/mil-panic.htm He terms them "weapons of mass disruption" which may lead to mass panic and will require the military and law enforcement agencies to unite in a new kind of US national defense, while, you bet, at the same time obeying law against domestic military operations. In passing, he notes that the military has encryption to protect itself against information attacks but that the public and infrastructure does not. Cavalry to the rescue. Danzig's message is remarkably similar to the Kyl report noted here a few days ago, and may indicate what's long been coming in the way of deploying military forces while falsely proclaiming Posse Comitatus is being fulfilled. Or that the law is about to be changed to meet the urgent threats of the Info Age, media-decorted, to be sure, like WMD Freddy or our own media-terrifying Toto. Bruce Hoffman's recently published "Inside Terrorism," lays out the full panoply of outlaw and lawful terrorism, by groups and nations, cults and religions. Like the "Thugs" of India who killed 1 million over 1200 years -- an impressive persistence. Hoffman claims that terrorism works in most cases. The reasons why have been discussed here, though not his depth and range of successes. And that the military seldom knows what to do about it except to engage in even greater terrorism itself, particularly against perceived supporters of the enemy. That's food for thought for those calling for military protection at home, whether by the military or the increasingly militarized and armed LEAs and support agencies. This linkage of WMD terrrorism and information threats appears to be the policy strategy to demonize information in order to criminalize it. "Information threats" under this policy does not mean anything protected by the 1A or WTO copyright, see how it works, is that clear motherfucker, do you need a missile in the head to get the point you fucking terrorist, read the NEWs, this aint TV Cops, Joe 6-Pack, it's high-tech GI Joe sapping your bunker, night-vision video rolling, family suicide by Semtex.

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DES Trolls
by Eric Cordian 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Vin McLellan, apparently not satisfied with only one flame, makes this response to a very conveniently appearing anonymous remailer troll saying something silly about Matt Blaze: > The real Matt Blaze would also not be making these absurd and false > claims that some mysterious "book" describing a cryptosystem identical > or equivalent to the RSA public key cryptosystem was published "years" > before Ron Rivest, Adi Shamir and Len Adelman first published their > RSA PKC algorithm in April, 1977. (It's well documented in the > Cypherpunk archives, Codrian assures us;-) Here the disingenuous Vin gives his own description of my prior post, which he then proceeds to loudly refute, and I certainly didn't use the word "identical" or the word "equivalent." I stated that descriptions of "that which is now known as RSA" have appeared in print, and that the one-way characteristics of the RSA trap-door function were also previously known. The arguments for invalidation of the RSA patent were based on two central claims. First, that work which contained similar material was distributed by preprint and presented at conferences more than one year before the RSA patent was applied for. This would include the Diffie-Hellman paper on "Multiuser Cryptographic Techniques", the early Merkle-Hellman work, and the Pohlig-Hellman work. The second claim that may be made against RSA is that the system is "obvious." Support for this claim may be found in books dating all the way back to the 19th century which discuss both the cryptographic usefulness of one-way functions, and the factorization of the product of two primes as one example of such a function. Quoting "Cyberlaw": "There are a number of references in the prior art, moreover, to using the problem of factoring composite numbers in cryptography, dating back to the 19th century. "In 1870, a book by William S. Jevons described the relationship of one-way functions to cryptography and went on to discuss specifically the factorization problem used to create the "trap-door" in the RSA system." > There was no such book. Cordian's statement is just not true. Only a complete moron would place himself in the position of trying to prove such an all-encompassing negative. > (Actually, I'd bet that even Robert Hettinga knows that this is > untrue.) People_insulted_by_Vin_in_this_thread++; > The real Matt Blaze would not have 15 donors -- as Mr. Cordian reports > -- but be stimied on how to get five more. If you had correctly read the FAQ, you would see that we have 5 sponsors, and 15 open sponsorships. We are not stimied, we are writing and debugging many thousands of lines of extremely complex code, and do not wish to be distracted by further marketing activities at this time. > I wish Mr. Cordian well in his algebraic attack on DES All together now. "Bwahahahahahahhahaahah!" This concludes my response to Vin, who may now return to his regularly scheduled trolling lessons. Now, if this weren't all hilarious enough, Matt Blaze, who is usually smarter than this, feels an urgent need to leap in with... > Whatever this is about, however, I assure you that any use of my name > in connection with a solicitation for funds for some sort of > "analytical DES cracking" effort, or any suggestion that I'm involved > in such a project, is absolutely false and perhaps fraudulent. Let me state for the record that the DES Analytic Crack Project has made no claims about any of the prople working on it, other than that they are competent implementors of complex algorithms. Matt Blaze is not associated with the project, and if any other crypto notables wish a similar public statement made about them, they have only to email and request it. Sponsorships for the project are being solicited on the basis of the statement of work in the FAQ, and work product to date. They are not being solicited based on any representation that various individuals with recognizable names are associated with the project. Anonymous trolls making such allegations, followed by irate rebuttals by shills, and scientists who should know better, are clearly an attempt at disruption. Continued such antics will be met with an appropriate legal response. -- Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html

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Link test [1432]
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

hi -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html ---------------------------------------------------------------

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

9 Nov 98 Carl Johnson #05987-196 P.O. Box 4000, Springfield, Missouri 65801-4000 I thought that given the fact that The Kontrollers seem to be Lying Out of Their Dirty Little AssHoles (TM) at every turn, in regard to my incarceration and legal situation, that I might as well use my time in Prison to improve my knowledge of Law & Politics. I am assuming that The Usual (TM) legal defenses are not an option for me, since my Public <hee-hee> <snortle- snortle> <hack-hack> Defender <spit> <fart> seems to be too ashamed of his role in my Legal Case that he has not once contacted me. Perhaps it would be best for me to study the possibility of presenting an SOG-Z0G AmericaLand of the The Freeh Defense (TM). If you know of any Cpunx Shit Disturbers who are familiar with Zionist Occupational Government concepts literature and legal defense histories, I would be happy to study whatever material they could send me. (Information from The Flat Earth Society would also come in handy, to prepare a Back Up Defense, eh?) Tell Zog that Chuck and Squeaky say, "High!" CJ

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Could E.M. Cordian be Matt Blaze in Disguise? (Nah!)
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

:-) Bwahahaha! Isn't this fun??? Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text X-Sender: vin(a)shell1.shore.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:31:21 -0500 To: Robert Hettinga <rah(a)shipwright.com>, dcsb(a)ai.mit.edu From: Vin McLellan <vin(a)shore.net> Subject: Could E.M. Cordian be Matt Blaze in Disguise? (Nah!) Cc: Matt Blaze <mab(a)research.att.com> Status: U Out on the Cypherpunks List, "Anonymous" claimed to reveal the real identity of E.M. Cordian, the organizer of the DES Analytical Crack. See: http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html >Shouldn't we be using "Mr. Cordian's" real >name? Matt Blaze (mab(a)research.att.com) also >occasionally known as "M.F. Tones", and even less >often as "Mr. Rouge" (There should be an accent mark >there actually). In response, Robert Hettinga <rah(a)shipwright.com> declared: >Just to clear the air a smidge. > >If Matt Blaze says he's looking for an algebraic inverse to DES, I tend to >believe him... Jeeze, Rob! This is your attempt to help "clear the air?" I do not for a moment believe that Eric Michael Cordian <emc(a)wire.insync.net> is a pseudonym for Matt Blaze <mab(a)research.att.com>! You should maybe query Matt directly <mab(a)research.att.com> before you endorse E.M. Cordian as Matt Blaze in drag. You could confuse a whole lot of people who trust your insider knowledge of these steamy Net Affairs. To anyone familiar with Blaze's essays, speeches, & on-line posts, a scan of Mr. Codrian's FAQ and published comments should make it apparent that this suggestion is unlikely, if not perposterous. The real Matt Blaze would also not be making these absurd and false claims that some mysterious "book" describing a cryptosystem identical or equivalent to the RSA public key cryptosystem was published "years" before Ron Rivest, Adi Shamir and Len Adelman first published their RSA PKC algorithm in April, 1977. (It's well documented in the Cypherpunk archives, Codrian assures us;-) There was no such book. Cordian's statement is just not true. The real Matt Blaze -- the guy who wrote the pithy Afterward to Schneier's Applied Cryptography,II -- would know that this is not true. (Actually, I'd bet that even Robert Hettinga knows that this is untrue.) Mind you, if the real Matt Blaze announced that he was seeking $500 from twenty people to fund a private research project which he felt had a meaningful chance of casting DES as a NP-hard combinatorial problem and attacking it with an appropriate combinatorial algorithm, I'd send a check off tomorrow. The real Matt Blaze would not have 15 donors -- as Mr. Cordian reports -- but be stimied on how to get five more. I wish Mr. Cordian well in his algebraic attack on DES -- but, unfortunately, he is not the real Matt Blaze. Not even a near-clone. We could do with a few more professionals with Blaze's talent, energy, and integrity in general circulation. Suerte, _Vin ----- "Cryptography is like literacy in the Dark Ages. Infinitely potent, for good and ill... yet basically an intellectual construct, an idea, which by its nature will resist efforts to restrict it to bureaucrats and others who deem only themselves worthy of such Privilege." _ A Thinking Man's Creed for Crypto _vbm. * Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild + <vin(a)shore.net> * 53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548 --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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17 Dec '03

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Plug: Check out wasp.org...
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

http://www.wasp.org/ is a site which belongs to WASP's author, and DBS and DCSB member, Steven Smith. When it's finished, the current version is about 70%-there alpha, WASP will be an open source web application delivery platform written in JAVA for XML/HTML. Steve and I were talking about using WASP for digital commerce, financial cryptography, and dbts applications Friday night, at Anthony's Pier 4, during the Constitution Yacht Club awards banquet. (Naw, not *that* kind of yacht club. CYC, while I'm plugging things, for those of you who sail in Boston, charges all of $75/yr, and it mostly does <very friendly, but hotly contested :-)> 'round-the-bouy races and cookouts, all out of a one-room prefab houseboat clubhouse tied up at the Constitution Marina in Charlestown. Steve graciously answered a cattlecall on the DCSB list for crew this summer, and now does foredeck on Corisan, the 1968 Columbia 38-footer a bunch of us old farts race on every Thursday night in Boston harbor, when it's warm enough to, anyway.) So, seeing that WASP is still being built, and Steve is crypto-clueful, I thought I'd spam the crypto community (and a few others :-)) about WASP so that Steve could get some comments on what he has now, and requests for new stuff he can add to WASP. And, of course, since it's open source, to solicit WASP additions, if WASP indeed doesn't suck, both crypto and otherwise, from other clueful people both inside the country and otherwise. :-). The following is from Steve's FAQ on WASP, sans links, so it might read strangely here in text. Cheers, Bob Hettinga > 1. What is the WASP? > > The WASP is an OpenSourceTM platform (library) for developing complex web >applications. It is written in Java and runs under any system which will >support the Java Servlet API. (eg. Sun's JavaWebServer, Apache (via Live >Software's JRun), NetScape, IIS and others.) > > The current version is: 0.7a. Download it now. I think this is 70% to a >1.0 release. 0.8a will be out by 11/16 and will include the >DataAccessObject (org.wasp.data.*). > > 2. How does the WASP work? > > The WASP parses .wasp files which consist of standard HTML and some >additional XML tags that are used to control the behavior of the WASP. >All .wasp files should be consistent with XML syntax. The WASP allows you >to add new tags and functionality easily. The default set of tags provide >standard script features, including: variable substitution, conditional >processing, looping, dynamic SQL queries (for prototyping only), >interfaces to Data Access Objects, etc. Session management is provided by >the underlying Servlet API and WASP applications have access request, >session, and global namespaces. See the Javadoc. > > 3. Who can use the WASP? > > Anyone can use it for Free! Better yet, you can download the source. >The WASP is released under the Library General Public License (LGPL), so >if you make any improvements to the WASP, the results must be free as >well. WARNING: This software is still alpha stage. It works, but there >are no Makefiles or INSTALL instructions yet. You're on your own. An >example .wasp page will be posted soon. > > 4. Why would I want to use the WASP? > > That is probably the subject for an entire whitepaper which I don't have >time to write. I wrote this software because all the methods I have found >for developing web applications suck in some way or other. Even >monumental OpenSource treasures like Apache and Perl leave something to be >desired when considering a complex application. Before I go trashing >everyone else's stuff though, let me tell you why The WASP doesn't suck: > > It is easily extended so you can make it do whatever you want. It is >written in Java so you can use any server OS or Database. It seperates >HTML from SQL and Java application logic, thereby allowing designers to >design and programmers to program. It is fast and scaleable. It will run >well enough on your hopped up 486 linux box and it will scream on your 10 >CPU Sparc Mega Server. If you run NT, I'm sure it'll work there too. >(Shame on you for wasting good hardware!) It encourages the development of >reusable business objects. It can talk to dynamic data sources/services >that are not SQL-Based! (Important for complex distributed object >applications.) It is OpenSource, so when you run into a bug, you can fix >it! It is comprehendable by any experienced object programmer. (Only >~3000 lines of code) It is Free! > > 5. What's wrong with the other stuff? > > The other standard methods for developing web apps all suffer from one or >more of the following: > > They involve editing single files containing 5 or more programming >lanugages, all with different syntax, and which execute in 5 different >places at 5 different times. They require you to surf the tech-support >websites of your tools vendors hoping for clues to some bug. They yield >unmaintainable / throwaway solutions. They tie you to a single vendor's >hardware, operating system, or database. They force you to use some arcane >GUI environment to create your "application". This process always feels >like Voodoo to me. M1CR0S0F4 R00LZ D00D!!!1!!1!. They cost money whether >they work well or not. > > 6. What can I do for the WASP? > > I will be setting up a database here soon to keep track of a wishlist, >bugs, etc. In the meantime, consult the source code and look for XXX in >the comments. These indicate areas that need work. Obviously, general >stuff like cleaning up error paths/exception handling would help. Anyone >with experience in the area of Enterprise Java Beans who could offer >suggestions on how to implement the Data Access stuff in the approved Java >framework would be greatly appreciated. I understand the EJB isn't baked >yet. I guess I'll buy a book on it after I finish the contract I'm on. > > After the Parser is reworked, the Page cache might be reworked to >serialize and write to disk or use some persistant store. The WASP caches >pages to avoid expensive parsing but I haven't yet measured how much >memory this uses. (RAM sure is cheap these days!) > > Also, if you really want a pure OpenSource stack of software, someone >needs to implement an OpenSource servlet runner. That is truely a >"chasing taillights" problem (as the Halloween Document put it) so it >should be easily enough accomplished. If no one steps up to plate, maybe >I'll get around to it, but don't hold your breath. I'm enjoying writing >WASP applications too much! > > There is a net-CVS repository for the WASP code. Read-only access has >not been set up yet. Contact steven.t.smith(a)pobox.com to obtain access. > > 7. What about the LGPL and Java Virtual Machine? > > I'm no licensing expert. Ostensibly, I want this program to be freely >used and improved while not enriching the lawyers, taxmen and all the >other parties that surround commercial software. Mostly, however, I want >to share this cool program with my friends. If anyone else can use it, >that would be great! If anyone could help me debug it, that would be even >greater! That's why I chose to OpenSource. > > What exactly defines a program running inside a JVM is not immediately >obvious. I just assumed that Java classes are all kind of like libraries. >That's why I chose to use the LGPL. > > In my view, the WASP consists of every class in the org.wasp.* heirarchy. >I don't consider any Data Access code that is specific to your >website/application and which may be "linked" into the WASP at runtime, to >be "part of" of the WASP or create some kind of derivative work. If you >do write additional Taglets which are of general use, I expect those to be >included in the WASP. This is sort of "enforced" by Taglets registering >themselves via code in the main org.wasp.engine.Servlet.init(), thereby, >in my view, making them part of the WASP. Data Access stuff that is >custom to your application can be configured in via initialization >parameters and thusly not considered to be part of the WASP. > > For what it's worth, the more you poke around this stuff, the more you >realize that Software isn't a THING at at all. All those phantasms people >use to think about it are simply anachonistic hold-overs from industrial >era, scarcity thinking. Software Licenses and the businesses they support >begin to look like so many Voodoo incantations and pointless >pontifications about angels on the head of pin. Or worse, they seem like >the rules of a silly boardgame which is played with real money, and in >which the house (government, lawyers, VCs, Investment Banks and corporate >shareholders) always wins. Casinos at least offer better odds. I believe >a programmer is better off figuring out how to get people to actually use >and propagate code in ways that enrich each of us individually and empower >individuals generally. > > 8. Who wrote it? > > Me. (steven.t.smith(a)pobox.com) And whoever I could sucker into helping >me. ;-) See the CONTRIBUTORS file for details. ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Re: U.S. Attorney Morgenthau on Money Laundering
by David Watts 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Can't blame the Feds for this one; Morgenthau is actually the District Attorney for Manhattan, not the U.S. Attorney. My bad. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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No Subject
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Newsgroups: talk.politics.crypto Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:28:04 -0500 (EST) From: "K. M. Ellis" <protozoa(a)tux.org> To: protozoa(a)tux.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-cryptography(a)c2.net Crack open your palm pilots and take note! And please repost widely. Our mailing list (dccp(a)eff.org) along with the rest of eff.org, is sadly out of commission. DC Cypherpunks will hold a meeting at the Electronic Privacy Information Center office in Washington, DC. DATE: Soon! Saturday, November 21, 1998 TIME: 5pm Featured speaker: Richard Schroeppel, University of Arizona rcs(a)cs.arizona.edu The Hasty Pudding Cipher "NIST is organizing the search for a new block cipher, the Advanced Encryption Standard. The Hasty Pudding Cipher is my entry in the AES competition. The design goals for HPC are medium security, speed, and flexibility. Hasty Pudding works with any block length and any key size. It is optimized for 64-bit architectures, operating at 200 MHz on large data blocks. Hasty Pudding introduces a new feature, Spice, which allows useful non-expanding encryption of small blocks, even single bits. The cipher includes some unusual design principles." Location: Electronic Privacy Information Center 666 Pennsylvania Ave. SE, at the corner of Pennsylvania and 7th in South East DC Across the street from Eastern Market Metro station (Orange & Blue Line) To get into the building, go around to the 7th street side next to the flower shop and use the call box to call the EPIC office. We'll buzz you in. True to DCCP form, we'll probably hit a local resturaunt afterwards for dinner. If you need more explicit directions, please contact Kathleen Ellis at (202)298-0833 or ellis(a)epic.org. For more information about the DC Cypherpunks, see our web page at http://www.isse.gmu.edu/~pfarrell/dccp/index.html --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)philodox.com> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism <http://www.philodox.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

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Search and Seizure abuse...
by Jean-Francois Avon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Note to elected officials: please inquire on this event an reply. Thanks JFA ========== forwarded from the Canadian Firearms Digest, V2 #701 ======== Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:23:49 -0600 From: Marstar <marstar(a)hawk.igs.net> Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #699 I WOULD LIKE TO ADD MY TWO CENTS WORTH, THIS IS A VERY SENSITIVE SUBJECT WITH US.... 1. Ask to see the search warrant. NFA: The searchers are required to SHOW you a COPY of the warrant or TELL you what is in it before executing it, and LEAVE you a copy of it when they leave.. 100% RIGHT, BUT WHEN THE PERSON POINTING THE MP-5 AT YOU TELLS YOU TO SHUT-UP AND MOVE AWAY, WHAT WOULD SUGGEST ?? 2. Ask the person in possession of the warrant to identify himself and all of those with him and to indicate whether those persons are authorized to aid in the execution of the warrant. WITH 40 PEOPLE ALREADY TEARING THINGS APART AND AN ENTIRE SWAT TEAM ON HAND HOLDING YOU AND YOUR EMPLOYEES AT GUNPOINT, THEY REFUSE TO IDENTIFY THEMSELVES, HOW SHOULD WE IMPRESS THEM WITH OUR DEMANDS ?? TO ADD A BIT OF CHALLENGE TO THE AFFAIR MOST OF THE PEOPLE WERE IN CIVILIAN CLOTHES AND WORE NO ID....MOST OF THE TRUCK AND CARS WERE UNMARKED.... HAD WE NOT TAKEN PICTURES WE WOULD NOT EVEN KNOW WHO HAD "VISITED" US. 3. Request time to review the warrant and to obtain advice with respect to the appropriate course of conduct. EXCELLENT IDEA, WHEN I REACHED FOR THE PHONE TO CALL OUR LAWYER TWO OF THE SWAT TEAM SMEMBERS WITH MP-5s POINTED AT ME INSTRUCTED ME "TO GET THE HELL AWAY FROM THE PHONE" THE FACT THAT I TOLD THEM I WANTETO CALL MY LAWYER DID NOT SEEM TO IMPRESS THAT AT ALL.... AS FOR HAVING TIME TO REVIEW THE WARRANT, THEY DID NOT SEEM INTERESTED IN HEARING ANY ARGUMENTS ON THE SUBJECT.... IS THERE SOME OTHER APPROACH I SHOULD HAVE USED ?? 4. Read the warrant carefully to determine: the premises covered WE ADVISED THE OFFICER IN CHARGE THAT THIS WAS INCORRECT...."NOT IMPORTANT" WAS THE REPLY the specific documents or objects it covers WE ALSO ADVISED THEM OF THE ERRORS IN THIS SECTION...."IT DOES NOT MATTER" REPLIED THE ONE IN CHARGE OF THE RAID.... the alleged offence(s) subject of the warrant NEW: Read the DATE and TIMES that the warrant authorizes search. THESE POINTS WERE CORRECT.... Often, the warrant is invalid because they were supposed to do the search YESTERDAY, or EARLIER TODAY, and entry can then be legally refused. CC s. 488 forbids the execution of a search warrant AT NIGHT, unless "(a) the justice [who issues it] is satisfied that there are reasonable grounds for it to be executed by night, (b) the reasonable grounds are included in the Information [laid before the justice to get the warrant], AND (c) the warrant authorizes that it be executed by night." 5. At the same time that the warrant is being reviewed, instruct someone to make the following calls (if not already made): legal counsel I INDICATED ABOVE WHAT HAPPENED WHEN WE ATTEMPTED TO USE THE PHONE, WE WERE SOME TIME INTO THE SEARCH BEFORE MY WIFE WAS ABLE TO CALL OUR LAWYER.... individuals named in the warrant whose offices are to be searched each should be advised that the search is pending and cautioned that they must not remove, alter or destroy any documents or other material in their offices. HEY THAT MANY PEOPLE CARRYING SUB MACHINE GUNS, SHOTGUNS, STUN GRENADES, HANDGUNS, ETC, ETC....HAVE MY INSTANT OBEDIENCE ASSURED.... >NFA: ADD the local news media GOOD LUCK, IN OUR CASE THEY CLOSED OFF OUR ROADWAY AND TURNED AWAY EVERYBODY WHO SHOWED UP.... FEW PEOPLE APPRECIATE THE "HOSPITALITY" OF ARMED POLICE AT YOU GATE.... >NFA: ADD NFA HQ: (403)439-1394 or NFA- (add prov.branch # here WE WERE UNABLE TO CONTACT THE NFA FOR SEVERAL HOURS.... >NFA NOTE: If told that you must sit down and not use the phone, ask: "Am I under arrest?" If the answer is "No, not YET!" then no one has any right to TOUCH you, or to hinder your use of the telephone. WE TRIED THAT APPROACH BUT I'M A CHICKEN AT HEART, TWO MP-5s POINTED AT MY MID-SECTION MADE ME THAT WAY.... If an officer DOES touch you, then ask again: "Am I under arrest?" If the answer is no, then say: "In that case, take your hand off me -- or I will arrest YOU for assault." [Yes, you ARE authorized to do that by Canadian law, CC s. 494(1) and (3)]. 6. Do not "agree" that the search can be expanded beyond the limits described in the warrant. IN OUR CASE THEY DID ABSOLUTELY AS THEY PLEASED, THEY HAD GUNS AND WE DID NOT.... 7. Do not answer any substantive questions. NFA: More people are convicted from what they SAY than from any other cause. You have a right to SILENCE. USE IT. Unless you know as much about firearms law as the NFA does, you have NO IDEA whether or not you ARE guilty - -- because you may SEEM to be guilty, and yet the NFA can often tell your lawyer why you are NOT. YOU ARE QUITE RIGHT, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.... 8. Do not attempt to impede, physically or ot otherwise, the person executing the warrant. NFA: That is obstruction, and a criminal offence. AND IF YOU HAVE A PUMPED UP BUNCH OF PEOPLE CARRYING AUTOMATIC WEAPONS WITH FINGERS ON THE TRIGGER DON'T EVEN THINK OF GIVING THEM A PROBLEM.... THESE PEOPLE WILL SHOOT FIRST AND ASK QUESTIONS LATER....THEY PROVED THAT ON A NUMBER OF RAIDS IN THE PAST FEW YEARS.... 9. If any documents exist in respect of which solicitor-client privilege may exist, identify the documents and their location and indicate to the search officer that the documents are subject to solicitor-client privilege and that you require that the appropriate procedures be followed to protect the privilege. OH YEAH, THAT IS GAURANTEED TO IMPRESS THEM, HELL WE EVEN HAVE PICTURES OF AN OFFICER STEALING DOCUMENTS.... 10. Keep an accurate log (or copy) of all documents seized. NFA: the searchers are required to file an "Information" with the court to get a search warrant. Unless the justice blocks it, the "Information" is a public document. After executing the warrant, the searchers must file a "Return" with the court, explaining what they did with the warrant and listing what they took. SO: After being searched, go to the court that issued the warrant and request a copy of the Information and Return relating to that warrant. You should be able to get them for the cost of photocopying, and they are VALUABLE. IN OUR CASE THEY SEALED THE WARRANT THEREBY DENYING ACCESS TO ALL WHO ASKED.... THEY WILL GIVE YOU WHATEVER RECEIPTS THEY FEEL LIKE GIVING YOU....WHEN THEY PLEASE.... ALL OF THE ABOVE INFORMATION IS ACCURATE AND A MATTER OF COURT RECORD. WE CHALLENGED THE WARRANTS AND THEY WERE DECLARED ILLEGAL.... WE CHALLENGED THE RAID UNDER TWO SECTIONS OF THE CANADIAN CHARTER, WE WON.... I THINK WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS "DON'T EXPECT THINGS TO GO DOWN IN A SMOOTH AND ORGANIZED MANNER, THEIR PEOPLE ARE RUNNING ON ADRENALIN, YOU ARE UPSET AND NERVOUS, THE HEAD MAN IS TRYING TO IMPRESS HIS MEN, DON'T BE A HERO, DON'T DO ANYTHING STUPID, LIVE TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY. SORRY FOR DRAGGING ON BUT EVEN AFTER 3.1/2 YEARS THIS EVENT STILL HAS ME FURIOUS. JOHN F ST AMOUR Definition: FASCISM: n.: a political and economic movement, strongly nationalistic, magnifying the rights of the state as opposed to those of the individual, in which industry, though remaining largely under private ownership, and all administrative political units, are controlled by a strong central government. ------------------------------------------------- "One of the ordinary modes by which tyrants accomplish their purpose, without resistance, is by disarming the people and making it an offense to keep arms". - Joseph Story, U.S. Supreme Court Justice. ------------------------------------------------- the German gun control laws were enacted by the "liberal" Weimar Republic government that preceded Hitler, and were a strong aid to his coming to power -- because they disarmed Hitler's opponents, and Hitler's adherents ignored them -- as criminals have always ignored gun control laws. Disarming the public is a frequent first step toward dictatorships and genocides. Once the disarming is complete, the public is helpless against those who have the guns. ------------------------------------------------- "Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -- Aristotle, "Politics" ------------------------------------------------- PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C

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