December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Camel
by Neels Kriek 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

OK, here is my solution ;) Load 1000 bananas on the camel. Make him walk 990 miles. 10 banana left. Get 10 unemployed people. Make them carry 200 bananas each. Since no-one can eat more than 1 banana per 10 miles(at a sustained rate anyways) make them walk 990 miles. 1010 bananas left. Load 990 on the camel. Each guy has 1 banana left for the last 10 miles. Camel eats 10 bananas on last 10 miles. QED 990 bananas on the other side. or Make camel walk a mile. Make him stop. Walk back and carry all 2000 bananas left to current spot. Put one banana on camel to get 1000 again. Make him walk 1 mile again and repeat. At other side unload 999(or 1000 if you were clever enough to carry the extra one that the camel eats on the last mile in your pocket) bananas. Leave one on the camel for the mile back. Walk camel back a mile . load 1000 bananas. Unload 999 bananas. You should now have 1998 bananas. or Buy a damned 4X4. We all know camels don't like bananas and would rather bite you than carry 1000 of them. Regards ;)

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17 Dec '03

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RE: importance of motivation
by Brown, R Ken 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mark Hahn wrote: >>using your head to think any thoughts we don't want thank. Good Drugs >>keep you addicted to your job, your country, your government, your boss. >>The Best Drug is the mortgage. > If you want to condemn the whole damn system we call society, > then the "Best Drug" is to have children. See if that doesn't > change your perspective a bit. But the poster mentioned a daughter... Ken Brown

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Re: odd comment
by Michael Motyka 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sounds like a potential urban legend or at least a misnaming of some comprehensible system. > A friend of mine works in an IT department > for a major tech company. Three of the people in > his department were just transfered to their new contract. > > They are rewiring some of the network for a highway system > in California that monitors for explosives. > What are the techniques that could be used for detecting conventional materials? I can't think of anything likely to work through a vehicle panel on a highway at 65 mph. Doesn't mean there isn't such a system. I guess a neutron counter or other radiation detector might be useful for spotting the scary new SUPERTERRORISTS. > On top of the poles are two > metal boxes about the size large bread boxes. > > Now any idea what those boxes are? > If they have plastic windows they could be speed measurement devices. I'd be interested in driving by some, are there some examples that are closer to Pleasanton? You can always ask your highway department representative - they might talk before thinking even if it's something TOP SECRET. Mike

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RE: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
by Matthew James Gering 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Choate > Wrong. Socialism is the belief that property is best managed > and owned by the government. Utopian socialism/communism believed that property is best managed and owned by the people -- the people as some abstract collective entity aka proletariat aka BORG. The dictatorial government is the agent of the proletariat to abolish individual rights and transition to communist utopia where government is no longer needed. Of course actual socialism in mixed economies and communism in command economies bear little resemblance to Marx's delusions. Matt

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RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
by Matthew James Gering 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Choate wrote: > Remember, you can't dominate a market that can't be saturated > and you can't saturate a local market unless you find a > mechanism to keep outside competition from moving in. Currently > this is only possible in very strongly regulated markets in > control economies. By golly Jim you almost got it. The only problem is your statement that one can dominate "saturable" markets without some artificial "mechanism." If you mean dominate by market share, then sure that is possible. But that in itself is not bad, ALCOA dominated via low prices and high efficiency. Domination in the bad sense is to be immune from the laws of supply and demand, and hence have arbitrary power over the market -- that is the definition of a coercive monopoly. You will find that that is not possible without an artificial barrier to competition. > Though, it does occur to me that the fact that OS/2 has a > stronger faction in Europe than in N. and S. America in > relation to Microsoft may be an indication that continental > saturation is possible. The conclusions I would draw from that are IBM as the former market giant had a very strong International infrastructure, channels and reputation. Since the US market is the principle industry producer, it was more competitive and less dominated by IBM. Microsoft, therefore, had an easier time in an already competitive US market than breaking in overseas. They also had the underdog phenomenon going for them here, the local competitive market wanting to break IBM's dominance. The fact that OS/2 utterly flopped in the US and found some adopters overseas is credit to IBMs international reputation and little else. Matt

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RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
by Matthew James Gering 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Brown, R Ken wrote: > Jim can look after himself, but the aircraft industry is > certainly monopolistic. There are only 2 serious players > in the market for large long-haul airliners, Airbus..and > Boeing First of all the majority of the market to which they are selling is anything but free. Each government has a monopoly on their military, and many have a monopoly on their commercial airlines as well. Government aren't bound by the same survival rules as consumers, they are able to irrationally spend as the can simply extort more money. Despite this very strong market distortion, competition for defense contracts had been rather competitive in the US, with the recent consolidation due to shrinking demand (note they cannot seek other markets freely to compensate). And despite the strong market distortions, Boeing makes a very slim profit margin on commercial aircraft (~3%) competing with Airbus. The private aircraft industry has had a terrible time not for lack of demand, but because of rampant irrational and overzealous liability claims. This has created a very limited number of vendors and highly inflated prices. Again, none these are natural effects of the free market. > The real problem with monopoly or cartel is not high prices > - many monopolies choose to charge low prices - it is lack > of freedom. So you would force people to pay higher prices so can have more choices? You would force people to support inefficient competitors? > A monopolisitic supplier of some good has a measure > of political power. Political power gums at the mean end of a gun, what political power do monopolies have and how? Matt

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RE: Another question about free-markets...
by Matthew James Gering 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Choate wrote: [govt subsidies to transcontinental railroads] > Only *after* it was clear that these companies could not > do it themselves because of a lack of sufficient traffic > to support the business. So if the market could not support it, who paid for it and how, who benefited from the distortion and who paid the price? The market demands the most efficient distribution of capital resources, when the government screws with that and screws with the market, the resulting problems (arbitrary coercive power of Western railroads, and severe lack of quality and safety) are because of that distortion, not the market. The government should have *not* intervened. Which is not my point though, my point is the judgements of an uneducated populace and corrupted government to blame this as a natural effect of a free market should not be carried forward, it needs to be exposed and corrected. [oil mineral rights] >> The placement (ownership) of these rights, their value, >> restrictions and enforcement are the result of a free >> market? No, government intervention. > > Actualy no, try buying a piece of land and enforcing the > title *without* registering it at the country seat or its > likes. Which is not a market instrument, it is a government instrument. Government intervention does not necessarily have to be direct and purposeful. Matt

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RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
by Brown, R Ken 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Petro wrote: [...snip...] > Other than the Railroads, which have already been shown to > be a government CREATED monopoly, how was the Aircraft > Industry a monopoly? The GARMENT INDUSTRY? > Come on Jim, "Put Up Or Shut Up". Jim can look after himself, but the aircraft industry is certainly monopolistic. There are only 2 serious players in the market for large long-haul airliners, Airbus (explicitly founded and subsidised by government) and Boeing (probably now turning a real profit but in the past cross-subsidised from military spending). Whether or not either of these firms would now exist without government subsidy is unknowable. Whether or not the monopolistic situation would exist if there had been no government subsidy is also unknowable. I do have trouble with the idea of the garment industry being monopolistic. About 2 miles from where I'm typeing this, in Whitechapel and Spitalfields in the East End of London, street after street is packed with small sweatshops, "import export" businesses, tiny fashion houses [...snip...] >>All working for about 5 or 6 companies who actlualy marketed and >> distributed the items. Just get a Dallas Texas phone book for >> that period (it's a distribution hub for the clothing/garment industry >> even today). > That is still 5 or 6 companies in competition. It looks as if the only monopolies you recognise are global ones where one big company supplies most of the market for some good, worldwide. At that level there are damn few monopolies - MS, Boeing, the Murdoch empire. But a monopolistic situation develops when one supplier, or a group of suppliers in cartel can control the market in some locality. Like the breweries in Britain a few years back - there were (and are) hundreds of breweries but the "big six" had carved up large areas of the country between them. So if you went to a bar in one area you got Watney's beer, in another, Bass. The real problem with monopoly or cartel is not high prices - many monopolies choose to charge low prices - it is lack of freedom. A monopolisitic supplier of some good has a measure of political power. They can make people behave in ways they might not otherwise behave. A monopolisitic employer of labour has *huge* political power.

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Yet Again Another Snake Oil Vendor
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Below is a message I posted to the SpyKing mailing list a few months back when Jaws decided to spam the list with their crypto "challange". >From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)invweb.net> >Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 14:41:24 -0500 >To: SpyKing <spyking(a)con2.com> >In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980601033850.0355c350(a)admin.con2.com> >Subject: POST RE: $5,000,000 Encryption contest -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <3.0.3.32.19980601033850.0355c350(a)admin.con2.com>, on 06/01/98 at 02:38 AM, SpyKing <spyking(a)con2.com> said: >15)From: SpyKing(a)thecodex.com >Subject: $5,000,000 "Break the Code" Encryption Contest >Friday May 29, 3:00 pm Eastern Time >Company Press Release >SOURCE: JAWS Technologies Inc. >JAWS Launches $5,000,000 ``Break the Code'' Encryption Contest <sigh> Yet another Snake-oil post. Such challenges like this are really meaningless and are designed as a publicity stunt to gain some free press rather than as a legitimate test of the strength of the algorithms involved. The *only* way to test the security of an algorithm is through a process of peer-review of the source code. Until JAWS Technologies decides to go through this process I would stay far away from this and any other products they may produce. It seems quite clear that they have little to no understanding of the cryptology & security fields. I don't know what it is about the list but it seems that we must endure these snake-oil posts on a periodic basis. While I have replied here to many of these snake-oil advertisements I have yet to see one of these companies post a rebuttal (to the list or privately). I have submitted a copy of the Snake-Oil FAQ to SpyKing requesting that he publish it to the list (it's a little long so I don't want to post it directly). It can also be found at: http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/snake-oil-faq.html Security & Encryption are the big buzz-words in the computer industry and many companies are looking to cash-in on it. Be very wary of Johnny Come Lately's who overnight become cryptology "experts". - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: I love running Windows! NOT! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNXNVXo9Co1n+aLhhAQHr5gP/aghoKztlVP6EjX0FU2v5rkBdu5FbyEWR 6aR/DdOvVYphIIQMk1O1Twy7ZasVUW/dSBPl7uT1/6yfw/NzSonyztmw+WR5d4lg rWOZ8Y1JjbXvLzH3RzA+LXZbShZ/Z5Smdb0yybvldHogo8pYDNeeJ5ZtMJuSgYfI VkoA4SFBDoY= =0m9E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Tag-O-Matic: You're throwing it all out the Windows! ----------------------------------------------------- -- End of forwarded message ----------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: If at first you don't succeed, work for Microsoft.

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