December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Censorship on cypherpunks
by Jim Ray 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Mon Nov 04 17:04:13 1996 Mark wrote: > It's only authoritarianism if the government is involved. Clearly, the > government isn't involved in this matter. Indeed. IMNSHO, a self-governing property-owner (John) saw that the value of a piece of his property was being reduced by a person (Vulis, KOTM) camping there. He asked that person (many times, and no-doubt in a far more tolerant way than _any_ government has ever in history behaved with any rulebreaker) to "please use the latrine instead of the stream." The person not only refused, he said "you'll have to make me." The property owner made him. Most of the other campers, even those who (like me) choose to (and are able to) filter stream water before drinking it, breathed a sigh of relief. John's action had about as much to do with "censorship" as AFDC has to do with "charity" or "compassion." The growing misuse of the word "censorship," especially here, is another symptom of the annoying educational work that Libertarians need to do, constantly, to fight the ever-encroaching Newspeak of those who do not believe in individual property rights, like the one (exclusion) that John exercised, only after much provocation. If you don't like it, tough shit. Go "buy your own campground" and start your own list, just like Perry is. But please don't mislabel John's action "Libertarian censorship." JMR One of the "legitimate concerns of law enforcement" seems to be that I was born innocent until proven guilty and not the other way around. -- me Defeat the Duopoly! Vote Harry & Jo http://www.HarryBrowne96.org/ ___________________________________________________________________ PGP id.E9BD6D35 51 5D A2 C3 92 2C 56 BE 53 2D 9C A1 B3 50 C9 C8 I will generate a new (and bigger) PGP key-pair on election night. jmr(a)shopmiami.com ____________________________________ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMn5oYW1lp8bpvW01AQF6ewP/U8DZc3FXuKgRQXF+mwWhVkimauwEXQYm p/Rd2u2sYvPMuQD3QMaN+WQCgkpOu0mLlt6TU0n+VJpVYkg82rSHDFyoez71bwvv jPEXZoJ7dVNnBUpy8b0z+NPSyRzVCPlRaFmaJE1Yba6wV01PMkMHf5ouobUps4L0 7cFlrfBGQaw= =J5FK -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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MCI/BT, who gets the taps?
by Brad Dolan 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Long-distance telecommunications carriers have been in bed with governments since Samuel F. B. Morse strung a line into DC. Only a modest amount of cynicism is required to think that there are "wiretap" hooks in the carriers' systems. When an MCI merges with a Britsh Telecom, who gets the benefit of the hooks? bd -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMmT3y680j2q8tTgtAQGC7wQA2ris5C3KAD6qLy3AmtglJRoZrei72CIH MEm7DGasD4AXqfwkjdmvZScAVXRD+KHHgVZQKQp+H0+D/TWHZCN9nrwE1z5/j73R o8qXDCC0owwJabZHknOMwpBm4Sf6JUGs7Wm1K9JmpVlF01GP+z7rxOMXfvZrlxvy mwcK3wjIPCU= =PTmz -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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British Telecom merger with MCI
by Peter D. Junger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Has anyone figured out how this merger can work, particularly when British Telecom will be the surviving party, when those MCI employees concerned with the security of communications will not be able to disclose any cryptographic software or technical data to their employer, or to their ``foreign'' bosses and colleagues, without first getting permission from the Office of Defense Trade Controls under the ITAR? -- Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH Internet: junger(a)pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu junger(a)samsara.law.cwru.edu URL: http://samsara.law.cwru.edu

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black high heal shoes?
by Lile Elam 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi all, I had the strangest dream this morning. I drempt that I had forgotton to vote! As I was heading for the poles, I saw Dole heading into the poles wearing a man's coal grey/black suit and womens' black high heal shoes. It was pretty bazzar.... I wonder what it means? It was pretty scary... Turns out I was too late getting to the poles to vote and I awoke in a panic thinking I had missed it all. I turned to my sleeping babe and after I awoke him, he assured me that voting happens tomorrow. Whew! -lile

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[NONCRYPTO] censorship on cypherpunks
by Brian D Williams 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I agree with John's decision. As others have already pointed out, this list (T.A.Z.) exists because of the generous nature of our host. It quite literally exists in his home as I recall. (Toad Hall) John made numerous requests for Dimitri to be polite to his other guests and was scorned for his attempt. John then removed him from his residence. Dimitri is now standing on the virtual sidewalk outside where he can continue to shout his insults, since as John knows well, his actions are no more than a "speedbump". Dimitri can get a list feed from a number of other sources, and can in fact continue to post. But John has made his point, and his actions hardly constitute censorship. Brian "A government supported artist is an incompetent fool - Lazarus Long"

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Re: MCI/BT, who gets the taps?
by L. Patrick Elam 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Maybe the "wiretap" hooks in the carriers' systems are accessable more globally than they would wish us to believe. Pat. At 06:40 AM 11/4/96 -0500, you wrote: > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >Long-distance telecommunications carriers have been in bed with >governments since Samuel F. B. Morse strung a line into DC. Only >a modest amount of cynicism is required to think that there are >"wiretap" hooks in the carriers' systems. When an MCI merges >with a Britsh Telecom, who gets the benefit of the hooks? > >bd > > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: 2.6.2 > >iQCVAwUBMmT3y680j2q8tTgtAQGC7wQA2ris5C3KAD6qLy3AmtglJRoZrei72CIH >MEm7DGasD4AXqfwkjdmvZScAVXRD+KHHgVZQKQp+H0+D/TWHZCN9nrwE1z5/j73R >o8qXDCC0owwJabZHknOMwpBm4Sf6JUGs7Wm1K9JmpVlF01GP+z7rxOMXfvZrlxvy >mwcK3wjIPCU= >=PTmz >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- ------------------------------------------------------- L. Patrick Elam, III 404-639-4538 Systems Administrator 404-608-3587[Pager] Senior Systems Engineer Information System Services Centers for Disease Control and Prevention http://www.cdc.gov 1600 Clifton Road, MS E-24 lpe0(a)oddhiv1.em.cdc.gov Atlanta, GA 30333, USA patelam3(a)atl.mindspring.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBMkxKTclE1gRAhbnhAQFZ7AL/Y5cw/jNSgVJdqPdd0i8f5T9Xp7LMkFUG iHuTftepC0UzghtI1JhCmBWehg+PfWx6wxt3gQZou/+KOLCGX8eWgnMstDX7KK2X QK/V/rerRrIn8/so8K3GtLb/gj+pCUup =F5EN -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Copyright violations
by alzheimer＠juno.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

American Banker: Thursday, October 31, 1996 Two Retail Giants Sue Visa Over Debit Cards By LISA FICKENSCHER Two of the largest retailing companies have filed a lawsuit against Visa U.S.A., claiming the bank card association illegally forces merchants to accept debit cards. Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and The Limited Inc., in what they characterized as a class action on behalf of all retailers, accused Visa of coercing equal treatment of Visa Check cards and credit cards. The suit, filed last Friday in U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of New York, alleged that the tying of debit and credit card acceptance violates antitrust laws. The retailers are seeking an unspecified amount in damages. The action, a flareup of longstanding tensions between the bank card and retailing industries, did not extend to MasterCard International, even though its policies are similar to Visa's. Industry sources speculated that MasterCard may have shielded itself through its recent cobranding agreement with Wal-Mart, the nation's biggest retailer. But because Visa and MasterCard are owned by virtually the same banks, the lawsuit has the same potential effect on the U.S. banking community as if MasterCard were named. The suit describes the approximately 2,800 banks that issue both Visa credit and Visa Check cards, and some 1,000 banks that are "acquiring members" of both Visa and MasterCard, as co-conspirators. Retailers have long argued that credit cards and debit cards should be priced differently, and that they should have the freedom to decide what kinds of payments they accept. Under MasterCard and Visa rules, all their cards must be acceptable at any retail location that displays those logos, regardless of card type. Wal-Mart and The Limited, among others, have contended that debit cards are more akin to cash and check transactions, which cost them less than credit cards. Recent growth in the Visa Check program -- Visa said check cards increased 49% in the second quarter -- led to Visa U.S.A.'s being singled out in the lawsuit, said Wal-Mart spokeswoman Betsy Reithemeyer. The suit said Visa Check cards were used last year in approximately 556 million retail transactions, generating $22 billion in sales. The complaint estimated that merchants paid at least $250 million in fees on that activity. That total supposedly would have been less than $33 million if processed through on-line systems such as regional automated teller machine networks. (Visa Check and MasterMoney payments are cleared "off-line," with some delay, like credit cards). If those purchases had been made with cash, checks, or travelers checks, those same sales would have cost "well below" the $33 million estimated, the legal filing said. "Retailers are willing to pay fees," said Paul Martaus, an electronic payments consultant in Clearwater, Fla. "The issue since day one with debit is that the fee they pay varies with the transaction amount." The lawsuit claimed a Visa credit card transaction costs merchants 1.25% of the sale, or $1.25 on $100. The Visa Check fee on the same sale would be 1.04% plus six cents, or $1.10. On-line debit networks' fees go as low as five cents. Visa officials, who saw the lawsuit for the first time Wednesday, said it is still cheaper for merchants to clear a Visa Check transaction than a credit card purchase. "The plaintiffs are wrong on the facts and the law," said Paul A. Allen, Visa's executive vice president and general counsel. "The rule that is being attacked has been a cornerstone of the Visa product and market for the past 25 years." "Visa will pursue this with all due vigor," said Mr. Martaus. "It challenges their livelihood." Visa has a long and successful record of turning back such legal attacks. It beat a 1984 price-fixing suit by Nabanco, a merchant processing company now owned by First Data Corp. In the 1990s, Dean Witter, Discover & Co. was unable to crack Visa's exclusive bank-membership policy. In 1983 Nordstrom Inc. of Seattle stopped accepting Visa's debit card to protest the credit-debit tying requirement, which jeopardized its status as a Visa merchant. Nordstrom brought, but quickly dropped, a lawsuit against the card association -- and later offered a cobranded Visa card. One legal observer, who did not want to be named, said the Wal-Mart and Limited claims against Visa will be difficult to prove "because the case does not fit into the traditional antitrust box. Most antitrust cases fail." The lead attorney for the retailers is Lloyd Constantine of Constantine & Partners, New York, a former antitrust chief in the New York State attorney general's office. American Banker: Thursday, October 31, 1996 Microsoft's Web Software for Merchants Wins Support By JENNIFER KINGSON BLOOM Six major banks and payment processors announced support Wednesday for Microsoft Corp. software designed to promote Internet commerce. Microsoft developed the software, Merchant Server 1.0, with Verifone Inc. It conforms to the Secure Electronic Transactions protocol for credit card payments and is said to make it easy for merchants to set up shop on the World Wide Web in as little as a month. The financial institutions and processors that have signed on are BankAmerica Corp., Citicorp, Wells Fargo & Co., Royal Bank of Canada, First USA Inc., and Dean Witter, Discover & Co.'s Novus unit. They plan to handle a variety of on-line payments functions for merchants. Microsoft chairman Bill Gates conceded that Merchant Server addresses "an area that today is very, very small," but added, "We believe there will be explosive growth." Bankers said their business customers are hankering for sales outlets on the Web. "You have to fight them off with a stick," said Adrian Horsefield, senior manager of alternative delivery products at Royal Bank of Canada. The bank, Canada's largest, plans to use the Microsoft software to open a "virtual mall" in March. Citicorp is planning a pilot program in Germany. Wells Fargo, BankAmerica, First USA's Paymentech unit, and Novus have agreed to recommend Merchant Server to customers. For the banks, the software serves as "virtual bricks and mortar," said Hatim A. Tyabji, chairman and chief executive officer of Verifone. "A lot of the talk (about on-line commerce) is about to be translated into reality." Michael Dusche, Microsoft's banking industry manager, said "a huge banking opportunity" beckons. "There's so much apprehension whenever Microsoft does anything in the banking community," he said. "We will let the banks remarket the product, offering it directly to their merchants." With the banks in control of the payment system, Mr. Dusche said, a participating institution could decide to offer incentives to merchants and consumers who used the bank's credit cards for on-line payments. Microsoft, of Redmond, Wash., and Verifone, of Redwood City., Calif., said last summer they were collaborating on a system to ensure secure electronic payments, built on the bank card industry's SET standard. Verifone, the leading supplier of point of sale terminals, contributed its VGate and VPos systems, which securely whisk payment information between Internet buyers and sellers. Other companies have come forward with similar offerings for merchants, including Netscape Communications Corp., Oracle Corp., and Open Market Inc. But several observers said the Microsoft-Verifone program appears to be the most comprehensive and has the advantage of being backed by companies merchants know and trust. "A whole host of people are delivering merchant server technology," said Ray McArdle, group executive for technology at First USA Paymentech in Dallas, adding that the combination of Microsoft and Verifone "is potent." "It's a more powerful product to the merchant community, and it's simple and inexpensive to use," he said. "Almost any merchant can afford to become involved in this new channel." Scott Smith, an electronic commerce analyst at Jupiter Communications in New York City, said that while other companies are providing "components," Microsoft's software is "the most comprehensive so far." "We see the merchant server as a breakthrough product," said Cathy Medich, Verifone's marketing director. "It's really targeted to helping a merchant run his store." One drawback, Mr. Smith said, is that the software works only on Microsoft's Windows NT operating system. "Like most of their offerings, it looks great, sounds great, but there are lots of hidden strings attached," Mr. Smith said. To date, most merchants have had to rely on a patchwork of software tools and payment techniques to do business on-line. "It's been tough for businesses to set these sites up," Mr. Gates said. "Many companies have spent over a million dollars setting up an Internet commerce site, and many of those just aren't so compelling." Mr. Dusche said small merchants will be able to set up a virtual store for as little as $3,500. At more sophisticated on-line stores, shoppers will be able to see more than just a flat image of each product. "If you're looking at a handbag, you'll be able to turn it around, open it up and look inside," Mr. Dusche said. "It has to be a compelling experience for the user - they have to be able to see more than text." Among the first merchants using the product will be the bookstore of the University of California at Los Angeles. The system will allow students to enter a course number and order books directly, without waiting in line. The Tower Records site will allow browsers to listen to snippets of music. About 50 merchants have said they will use the technology to open such stores by yearend. Jane Moy, vice president and general manager of electronic commerce at Novus Services, called the Microsoft-Verifone merchant server "the first step" toward ubiquitous Internet commerce. InfoWorld: October 28, 1996 Lucent, Visa Strike Phone Banking Deal By Kristi Essick Lucent Technologies Inc. this month announced that Visa Interactive will use its phone-based voice-recognition banking software as an extension of the Visa electronic banking and bill-paying network. Under terms of the agreement, Lucent will provide its Intuity Conversant voice-response system, which recognizes and processes natural language requests via telephone, to Visa-member financial institutions in the United States. The technology, already being used by many banks in the United States for their own networks, will now be connected to Visa Interactive's vast electronic banking network to enable financial institutions to offer bill-paying services via voice-recognition phone calls, according to Ry Schwark, a Lucent spokesman. Using the service, customers will be able to make electronic payments to businesses and individuals, receive notification of low funds, and access their accounts after entering a personal passcode. A request such as "Can I find out my balance?" or "Write check to Aunt Ethel" will be recognized by the Intuity Conversant system and electronically processed via the Visa bill-paying network without users ever having to write a check, said Ken Pilecek, bank offers manager for Lucent. To be eligible for the service, users must submit to Visa in writing a list of individuals and institutions. Once the service is activated, users need only call the voice system and enter a password to authorize money transfers to and from any account, Pilecek said. The first financial institution to sign up for the bill-payment service is Kansas City, Mo.-based UMB Financial Corp., which will make the services available to its 130 member banks in the Midwest, Schwark said. The Intuity Conversant software complies with Visa Interactive's Access Device Messaging Specification, an open protocol for bill-payment services. The starting price for the software is $6,700 for small and medium-size banks with an Intuity Conversant hardware system already installed. For banks that need both software and hardware, pricing starts at $18,000. Large bank applications start at $30,000. The service is available now in the United States, but it won't be offered internationally until next year. Users can expect to see services in Canada, the United Kingdom, and Australia by midyear, but non-English speakers will need to wait until Lucent releases foreign language versions of the voice-recognition software, which may take as long as a year, Pilecek said. In addition to language considerations, Lucent and Visa must also alter the service to comply with differing international banking regulations, Pilecek said. Lucent, based in Murray Hill, N.J., can be reached at (908) 582-8500 or at http://www.lucent.com. Bank Automation News: October 30, 1996 Technology Provides Internet Connection Banks will be able to provide customers with better service and improve productivity levels in their call centers as Internet technology software improves, say consultants. "A year ago, people said [the Internet] was a phase, now it doesn't matter if it is a fad, you need to be there," says Sheila McGee-Smith, director of analysis and forecasting at the Pelorus Group in Raritan, N.J. Security First Network Bank [SFNB], of Atlanta, is implementing an Internet call center in three phases over the next several months to consolidate customer inquiries received through various communication channels, including the voice response unit and E-mail. The software will be implemented by Quintus, of Freemont, Calif., into the data center of Atlanta-based Five Paces Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of SFNB. The center will use tracking software to identify the caller when they dial into the center from another line or E-mail the bank and transfer the inquiry to an agent. The system also will allow the initial servicing agent to track the request to place any follow up calls, says Lisa Green a spokeswoman for Quintus. The service model was designed in conjunction with Palo Alto, Calif.-based Hewlett-Packard, which will supply the middleware, Cambridge Technology Partners, of Cambridge, Mass., which will help with the integration process, and Little Rock, Ark.-based Alltel, which will manage the call center. Banks can establish Internet links to their call centers to give customers access to account information and have an agent return their call. Internet telephony systems let consumers speak with an agent while viewing the banks World Wide Web page over a single line, but require both the agent and the customer to have an Internet connection, sound card, Internet phone software, a microphone and speakers, says McGee-Smith. Consider Customer Demographics First Before you implement Internet call centers or Internet telephony systems, consider the regional and geographic differences of your customer base, say analysts. Customers at Citibank, of New York, for example, may be more comfortable using Internet applications than those at a rural bank, says McGee-Smith. Other equipment providers are incorporating these capabilities into their systems. Lucent Technologies, of Basking Ridge, N.J., is planning to offer Internet telephony functions to its Intuity Messaging Solutions and Rockwell Switching Systems Division, of Downers, Grove, Ill., also produced an Internet telephony system with Netspeak, of Boca Raton, a telephone software company. San Jose, Calif.-based Aspect Telecommunications Corp. also has Internet telephony functions. Santa Fe, Calif.-based Edify and AT&T , of Parsippney, N.J., also are working on an Internet application.

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Re: [NOISE] Censorship of Dr. Vulius
by Alex F 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Someone on this list complained that there was one list that allowed uncensored postings, and this was it. Not that Dr. Vulis has been kicked off that character of the list is either tarnished or alltogether gone. The same person likened this to a violation of Libertarian ideals, etc. The way I see it is this, being on this list is a priveledge, not a right. When someone abuses that priveledge they may lose it. Plain and simple. It is also worthy to note that the Right to Free Speech, etc. applies to the government (IOW, the government can not hinder the right to free speech so long as that speech does not infringe upon someone else's right. Since when is this list government run? The decision was apparently a personal one. Dr. Vulis was apparently asked nicely several times to stop flaming, and post on relevant subject matter. He did not. Does the Libertarian ideal also approve of uninhibited abuse of priveledges? I don't think so. To sum up, I really don't see any conflict between John's actions and the Libertarian way of thought, but that's just my personal opinion. Later, Alex F @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Alex F - Internet Security Systems Webmaster/Security Training alexf(a)iss.net @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

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Re: NSA Report: Anyone seen this?
by Douglas Barnes 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The paper does, however, repeat the "infinity liability" fallacy. (See: http://www.c2.net/~cman/) At 02:38 PM 11/3/96 -0800, you wrote: >I just finished reading the report "How to Make a Mint: The Cryptography of >Anonymous Electronic Cash" by Law, Sabett & Solinas. It can be found at ><http://jya.com/nsamint.htm>. > >It is very well written with only identification of the issues except in >the last short paragraph where they clearly lean toward government >interests. > >They identify and distinguish interests of the bank, the consumer's >privacy, and the government. Some of the measures that they describe >(providing for traceability) might well be done by a bank operating in an >anarchy. Imagine that you are running a bank in an anarchy and the son of >one of your good customers is kidnapped and held for ransom. Suppose that >the kidnapper is a good customer of another bank with whom you have an >arm's length relation. The arguments are not simple. Only towards the end >does the paper begin to conflate the interests of the government and the >bank. Some of the law enforcement purposes that they describe would apply >to the anarchy bank, others would not. > >The paper is the best description I have seen of several advanced money >schemes. It has a better description of Chaum's off-line scheme than I had >seen before. It describes sever even more advanced schemes, both abstracted >form the mathematical details, and then with the details filled in. > > > >

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[Portland] Cypherpunks party at Orycon 18
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Orycon 18 is a local Science Fiction convention held at the Red Lion hotel at Janzen Beach this weekend. I will be having a room party for Cypherpunks and related crypto-anarchist-types sometime during the convention. Anyone who wants more information, just drop me a line. I will be on a couple of Internet related panels, as well as a "PGP and Cryptography panel". Anyone interested in helping out with those, contact me as well. --- | "Remember: You can't have BSDM without BSD." - alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.teleport.com/~alano/ | alano(a)teleport.com |

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