December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Timmy and the OKC Actions
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:29 PM 5/23/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 10:56 AM -0700 5/23/97, Huge Cajones Remailer wrote: >> The US is still reeling from OK City. Tried as it might, the US gov't >>couldn't find an outside enemy to pin it to. Whether >>Timmy did it or not is again irrelevant, they needed to find > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>someone to blame and did. Now that it's the defenses turn, it >... > >Hey, I _didn't_ do it. Honest. No fooling. I was more than 30 miles away >when that blast went off, and you can't place me in OKC anytime that >morning. Then why was Lassie in the background of the pictures of the blast? (You can see her doing somersaults through the air, hurled like so much Jagermeister.) And what about the truck driven by June Lockhart? And that robot waving his arms yelling "Danger! Danger!" Oops... Sorry. Wrong Timmy. --- | "Bill Clinton - Bringing back the sixties one Nixon at a time." | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com|

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Re: Key Recovery / The True Story
by Blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Ernest Hua wrote: > Is it EVER okay for spooks to break into a church's computer to > find out if they are secret terrorists? .................................................................. Is there a Universal Authority who can definitively answer questions like this, so that we can know what is right/wrong and win philosophical debates? Ask any person/organization, and they will provide the answer which they feel comfortable with. Those who choose to uphold certain standards of behavior will reply in reference to a concern for the violation of these ideals; those who only deal with action in practical cause/effect scenarios will reply in terms of their immediate concerns for physical safety from terrorists wherever/however one may route them. Some people's perspectives are short & narrow, some people see things in a larger, integrated context. Each will answer according to their ability to evaluate antecedents & consequents. Eventually, one must decide for oneself what one will choose to live with, to tolerate. .. Blanc

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Re: The Natives Are Getting Restless
by Blanc 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

some using Huge Cajones Remailer wrote: >List members should be the first to rise above the base tactics of >the enemy. We need to develop a language of inclusion that unites all >of these seemingly disparate peoples against the common enemy. .................................................. Typical collectivist thinking, the other side of "good cop/bad cop". There is nothing wrong with having a separate identity. Neither is there a need to have a common enemy. .. Blanc

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Re: Jim Bell Complaint
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

John Young wrote: > > William Geiger wrote: > > >After reading the complaint I have to say that with friends like that > >who needs enemies? > > True, if that's what the friends actually said, and if they were > not induced to do so by being fed lethal information: don't > go down with Bell, protect yourself, spill your guts. > > Turning friends against friends is pretty common in > investigations, using threats and promises of relief > from possible charges, even saying that your friend is > squealing on you. I have mostly lurked on the list for several years without doing very much posting. I am employed in an area of law enforcement where I don't get involved with the the darker side of the process but I often listen to others who talk about various methods they use to make a case against somebody they have decided to "get." It is well known that if the information provided in an initial interview of a potential witness is not damaging enough that veiled threats implying the person being interviewed will be going along for the ride is enough to induce them to spill whatever beans the investigator is after. I recognize the need to lean on those who are witholding needed information but the method is often used to trump up the most outrageous accusations and manufactured evidence imaginable. Add to this the fact that most of us have at some point made statements that we would like to "kill" a certain individual and similar off the cuff statements and almost anyone can look very guilty of almost anything. Since I initially recognized the federal action against Mr. Bell as an all out effort to get him no matter what the cost I was not surprised to see that the first interviews with his friends were fairly tame material and the second interviews were very damaging to Mr. Bell. Once you put enough fear into people their memories become very creative. > I was struck by how similar some remarks attributed to > Bell were to those attributed to McVeigh, not that they > were not made, but that the investigators chose to > select just those to indicate lethal intent. I have worked with a sufficient volume of evidence in all manner of cases that I am convinced that any paramilitary or military type of person could be arrested and one would be able to duplicate much of the evidence that is being introduced in the McVeigh case. I think that if McVeigh and Bell traded places that each would still be convicted of some of the charges against them. I have seen carnivorous prosecuters turn totally ambiguous evidence into a smoking gun against very average people even without the ferocious intent that the government has in the McVeigh and Bell cases to produce a conviction at any cost. > The IRS searching the Internet for incriminating advocacy > is a warning of what's to come, as often predicted here. In my time on the list I have noticed that and it was particularly brought home to me when I read the story posted to the list called "Webworld and the Circle of Unuchs." I think the author must be one of the list spooks because the connections he makes or makes up are strikingly similar to those which would be conjectured by a good evidentiary analyst. I used to print cypherpunk posts for a fellow employee who works computer crime cases and he would demean them because they weren't technical enough for his taste. Now he follows the list religiously because it lets him know whats going on and where things are going with privacy and encryption. > Time to study and ponder the 1st Amend -- which, by the way, > Matt Blaze did at the NYC crypto forum last night to challenge > Charney and Denning. Matt pulled out a copy and cited > it, which may be a good indication of what he knows that > we don't about what's coming. What I learn on my job is a world apart from the publics perception of what goes on in law enforcement. It is scary to realize how many people suffer terribly just because they are so trusting in the system when the system doesn't really care in many cases. I am certain that it must be just as true and more at higher levels of government where we see and know so little of what really takes place behind the scenes. If I had to work in an area of law enforcement where I faced pressure to do many of the things that others do to produce convictions I don't think I would last very long. At least I hope I wouldn't.

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Re: The Bell Plan
by Kent Crispin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Fri, May 23, 1997 at 03:35:04PM -0400, lucifer Anonymous Remailer said: > [clever forgery deleted] >GovernmentMonger > >-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- >Version: 5.0 beta > >mQBtAzMlqw8AAAEDALc9qKk3L2AH9k8wEtwX5R6VkBj3jdqWmCUVB7STqtsE2jpv >3QzrbNi2GShGjiYxMv1jef7K6cA83sk3rrXhL0h8l3vx2mIN1j/XNb/ifdsbScP/ >VZyZEXJMg3KGKsoHoQAFEbQgS2VudCBDcmlzcGluIDxrZW50QHNvbmdiaXJkLmNv >bT4= >=Nj/m >-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Please note that the above key is not mine. -- Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited", kent(a)songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html

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17 Dec '03

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Re: System Attack & FBI (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: System Attack & FBI (fwd) > From: dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > Date: Sat, 24 May 97 08:31:31 EDT > ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) writes: > ... > > I hope that the hacker did not leave any other trojans besides rogue Apache > > and in.telnetd. > ... > The cracker installed Stronghold[tm] on Jim's system? How despicable! The cracker installed nothing. From the first time they used the bbixler account I have known of them. Another interesting aspect is that since taking on the CDR I have had 3 attacks (previous ones were denial of service) while in the year previous to that I had only one. I think there is an object lesson buried in there somewhere. What I want to know is if he ever realized he was running on a 486DX2/80 w/ 24M of RAM, 1G of hard-drive, and a version of Linux that is over 2 years old? What a rube... The bbixler account was a trip-wire with a very silly password intentionaly left there (as are several others) just waiting for some happy jack to find one. I also do this with my IP's. It is actualy very effective. I once nabbed a bozo from the Richardson, Tx AT&T office who was using my system to get to other systems. I was monitoring the account and noticed an email go out to a buddy of his with his office number in it. I called, he shit bricks, I asked for money or that he desist from using my system. He desisted. I also have a pretty quick re-install plan as well. I have a basic image on a spare drive installed in the box. Swap cables and we are back up. I can do a complete re-install and be configured in about 3 hours from CD archives and the original source material which is on machines not on the Internet (it's my Amiga 2000). This does not include the user home dir's which I don't protect, with the users full knowledge and agreement. Their data, their problem (I push fast cycle times, the use of off-line encryption for security, and digital signing for authority); I provide services only and TEMPORARY file storage on my file systems. Linux on old 486's is wonderful! Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Too few cypherpunks nodes. (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Subject: Too few cypherpunks nodes. > Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 00:49:16 -0500 (CDT) > From: ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) > As the time goes on and I see what is happening inside and outside our > list, I am getting increasingly concerned about the small number of hosts > in the cypherpunks network. > > Practically, most of the people use only two nodes, Kent's and mine, and > thanks to Jim, we have three operating ones. I do not believe that it is > good enough. > > If anyone has any creative idea of how to get a couple more reliable > nodes, please share it. I agree fully. I know of at least one other indipendant node that will be coming up in the near future. I am also in the process of putting in a satellite location to my current site about 30 miles east of Austin to better serve that part of the community. That site is intended among other things to host backup servers for the various services of CyberTects. Among these will be a server to run the various mailing lists in case of a primary site incident. It will currently be connected via modem but a switch to ISDN or ADSL is in the works. We also hope to kick the primary SSZ site up from ISDN to ADSL in the near future as well. I can't at this time provide even tentative go-live dates, but I will be digging a power trench there this afternoon if it quits raining, then we have to install the phones and air conditioner. Things are improving but only slowly. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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Re: Too few cypherpunks nodes. (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 14:10:59 +0100 > From: Adam Back <aba(a)dcs.ex.ac.uk> > Subject: Re: Too few cypherpunks nodes. > Does anyone know how many people are using Jim's cypherpunks(a)ssz.com? I don't even check, less than 100 for shure and probably less than 25. Don't remember seeing that many notices of subscription to the cpunks list. There are a LOT of info and help requests though. > Also I might point out that the afforded privacy is mostly illusionary > because any TLA who cared could observe the mail fanning out from > ssz.com with Sender: cypherpunks-owner(a)ssz.com and reconstruct the > list in short order. True, but in that case they can simply walk in with a subpeonae and take it as well, it is sitting there in a plain text file. The reason I do this is to minimize spammings and other such attacks it is not to protect anyone from a truly determined assault but rather from those marketing idiots out there with no clue as to anything close to reasonable behaviour. And yes, I realize that this can be defeated by simply subscribing to the mailing list and watching your incoming as you reference above. (Hint: I ain't a marketing weenie) There are other boogey-men than just TLA's....who in my opinion are the easiest to deal with. Jim Choate CyberTects ravage(a)ssz.com

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17 Dec '03

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