December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

sandy who??
by anand abhyankar 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

hi guys, i am a new addition on the mailing list. i am amazed to find that half the mails talk about "sandy (god knows who he is) and he censoring mails" rather than crypto stuff. somebody please let me know who sandy is and what exactly is this censoring issue. anand....

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Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Brad Dolan wrote: > How do you encourage people to use resources more-or-less wisely? > 1. The socialist/nanny model - take charge and give 'em orders > We've tried that and it apparently didn't work out. > 2. The market model - charge people for what they use > A while back, omebody suggested a system which would be self-funding, by > charging people for each post they made. Maybe we should try it? If > each little piece of ASCII art cost a poster a buck or two to send, he > might send fewer. On the other hand, we don't want to discourage > interesting posters, so I think some system to reimburse interesting > posters would be useful. > I'm not the guy to set up the system, but I'll happily buy a modest amount > of "posting tickets." When you're a spy, you usually pay for info. In John's case, he's been getting the info for free. Now you're suggestion he charge people for providing him the info. This is not the direction John wants to go. He just wants cleaner info, that's all.

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Re: Passphrase generation
by Adam Shostack 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

You want to think about how does someone attack the passphrase? Essentially, there are dictionary methods, where probably passphrasess are checked. These are enhanced by the use of changers, where the word is modified in ways common to people changing passwords: target Target targeT target0 0target target1 Crack, by Alex Muffet, produces on the order of 1000 derived words per word its given. I use phrases of 30-90 pink elephants with some arbitrary pizzas tossed on the floor. Adam Jeremiah A Blatz wrote: -- Start of PGP signed section. | Internaut <unde0275(a)frank.mtsu.edu> writes: | > Hi, | > I am wanting to learn how to generate a passphrase that is at least as | > strong as the IDEA algorithm. I have looked several other places on the | > web for an answer to this, but they all had different things to say that | > didn't add up (no pun intended :). | | Chech out the cannonical passphrase FAQ: | http://www.stack.nl/~galactus/remailers/passphrase-faq.html | | This one has some quick reminders of what to do and not to do | http://www.encryption.com/pphrase.htm | | Bottom line, totally random ASCII will have lots of bits per | character, but english has about 1.2 bits per character. Misspellings | can add to that, depending on the extent of mutillation . Combining | certain words can make your passphrase weaker (such as "To be or not | to be," "This is my passphrase," etc.). | | HTH, | Jer | | "standing on top of the world/ never knew how you never could/ never knew | why you never could live/ innocent life that everyone did" -Wormhole -- End of PGP signed section. -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume

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Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sandy Sandfort wrote: > You have probably just read John's post. I truly hope YOU (each > and every one of you) can rise to his challenge. If you have > offered nothing in the past but criticism, it's now time to get a > bit more real. What will it be, your money, time, equipment? What challenge? An offer to break code for money? Not likely, is it? > I would hope that the loudest advocates of "free speech" turn out > to be the most generous, but I'm not holding my breath. Maybe > the solution(s) will come from you lurkers. I hope you can put > down your beer long enough to get involved. Generous with what? Get involved with crypto? That's why they're here in the first place, yes? > Finally, if anyone wants to discuss why the Cypherpunk list has > come to this, or what I did right or wrong as a moderator, let's > talk about--on the new list(s) YOU create. For now, though, it's > off-topic. We have work to do. I think they already talked about it, and the decision is in. What does "off-topic" mean? Does it mean further criticism will be censored? > P.S. To all those people who privately supported me in my attempt > to help the list deal with its problems, thank you. Help the list? You almost destroyed the list. If you wanted to help, you should have provided lessons on filtering. > I wouldn't have come back without your and John's encouragement. A lot of people wish you hadn't come back.

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[CRYPTO] Classic Cryptography
by Brian D Williams 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 6 February 1997 Aegean Park Press proudly announces publication of CLASSICAL CRYPTOGRAPHY COURSE - VOLUME II by Randall K. Nichols [LANAKI]. [ISBN: 0-89412-264-9, 1997, 464 pages, $US 40.80 ] Volume II presents Lectures 11 - 22 (of a total of twenty five) from his successful course in Classical Cryptography taught in 1995 and 1996 to 391 students via the Internet and an additional 65 via regular mail. Volume II covers polyalphabetic substitutions ciphers in the Vigenere family (Viggy, Variant, Beaufort, Porta, Gronsfeld, Portax, Gromark), decimation, principles of symmetry, isologs and superimposition solution techniques. Volume II describes the difficult aperiodic cipher systems (Interrupted key, Autoclave, Progressive, Running Key used in cipher machines) and their analysis by isomorphs, and repetitions. Cryptarithm solutions for extended bases are presented. The theory of coincidences and statistical attacks (Kappa, Chi, Phi) derived from this important theory are detailed. Transposition theory and a variety of transposition ciphers are solved (Columnar, Amsco, Myszkowski, Cadenus, Grille, Swagman, Auto-Transposition). Volume II has two chapters on the difficult cipher systems invented by the famous French cryptographer Delastelle: Foursquare, Bifid and Trifid. Volume II presents a detailed chapter on passwords, law and data protection. Volume II ends with a historical look at codes, commercial code systems, and famous cipher machines. Volume II is a potpourri of advanced topics in classical cryptography. The Cryptographic Resources and References section has been expanded to cover all phases of involvement with cryptography: cryptanalysis, history, legal, social, classical, modern, NSA, mathematical techniques, recreational, intelligence, tactical, strategic, National Defense, INFOSEC: offensive and defensive, hardware, software, standards, public key cryptography, web sources, and applicable Senate and House bills. Readers are encouraged to expand their knowledge in the many directions possible to them through this section. For orders or Information Contact: Aegean Park Press, P.O. Box 2837, Laguna Hills, Ca. 92654. Telephone: 1-800-736-3587; Fax: 1-714-586-8269. Group discounts available. REVIEW OF CLASSICAL CRYPTOGRAPHY COURSE, VOLUME I By the Honorable David Kennedy, Director of Research, NCSA. Classical Cryptography Course, Volume I. By Randall K. Nichols; published by Aegean Park Press, (714) 586-8811 (phone) (714) 586-8269 (fax); (800) 736 - 3587; 301 pages (with index); $34.80 (American Cryptogram Association members receive a 20% discount through ACA or NCSA Members receive a 10% discount if purchased from the NCSA Bookstore) In Classical Cryptography Course, Volume I, author Randall K. Nichols has created a benchmark for serious students of the science of cryptography. This is a text. It is for learning, and with it one cannot help but learn about the foundations of the science. An outgrowth of Nichols' admitted "labor of love" in the online Cryptography Courses he teaches over the Internet, Volume I creates the foundation for understanding the development of the science. The ten chapters of this volume lead the student through simple substitutions, substitutions with variants, multiliteral substitutions, xenocrypts (foreign language substitutions), cryptarithms, the Enigma machine (separate Enigma95 program disk available direct from the author) and finally to polyalphabetic substitutions. Seven chapters conclude with problems; solutions and discussions are provided in an appendix. The text is indexed with twenty-four pages of references for further study. I found Nichols' sense of the history of cryptography particularly noteworthy. The volume is liberally salted with citations from history with applications of the methods developed in the text. From Revolutionary France through the American Civil War, the Tammany Hall scandal, Revolutionary Soviet ciphers and Japanese successes against Chinese codes prior to Pearl Harbor, the text provides touchstones for student to understand and relate to. Phil Zimmermann observed in the documentation to his Pretty Good Privacy Program to "Beware of Snake Oil." Among his arguments is this anecdote: I remember a conversation with Brian Snow, a highly placed senior cryptographer with the NSA. He said he would never trust an encryption algorithm designed by someone who had not "earned their bones" by first spending a lot of time cracking codes. Where Schneier's Applied Cryptography is a crash course in some encryption protocols and algorithms in use today, Nichols' text begins the teaching of Snake Oil detection and prevention. Learning the fundamentals, developed throughout the text, brings a richer understanding of the science, it's history and insight into it's possibilities and some vulnerabilities lurking for the unwary. Nichols plans for release Volume II in the series with advanced material on from the online course which includes statistical attacks and transposition in February, 1997. Reviewer: Dave Kennedy, CISSP, is Director of Research for the National Computer Security Association, Carlisle, PA. He is a retired Army military police officer and member of NCSA, ASIS, ISSA and the Computer Security Institute.

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DCSB: Online Government & Electronic Commerce - Legislation and Public Sector Initiatives
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The Digital Commerce Society of Boston Presents Daniel Greenwood, Esq. Deputy General Counsel Information Technology Division Commonwealth of Massachusetts "Online Government & Electronic Commerce - Legislation and Public Sector Initiatives" Tuesday, March 4, 1997 12 - 2 PM The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston One Federal Street, Boston, MA Dan will give us an update on recent information age legislative and operational developments in the public sector. Special attention will be paid to: Electronic Signature and Record Legislation; Joint Government/Private Sector Attempts to Set Certification Authority Standards; Cutting Edge Public Sector PKI Projects; Recent Coordinated State-Federal-Foreign Electronic Commerce Policy Initiatives; and much, much more . . . Speaker: Daniel Greenwood, Esq. Information Technology Division, Deputy General Counsel Commonwealth of Massachusetts Office: http://www.state.ma.us/itd/legal home: http://www.tiac.net/biz/danielg Mr. Greenwood practices information technology law for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Recent relevant activities include: * Co-Author of the Draft 1997 Mass. Electronic Records and Signature Act * Chairman of the Commonwealth of Mass. PKI Task Force * Chairman of the ABA Info. Security Comm., Legislative Sub-Committee * Co-Chair of the ABA Cyberspace Law Comm., Legislative Work Group * Contributing Author: ABA Digital Signature Guidelines * Negotiator of Contracts for Internet Security and Payment Systems * Board Member of SigNet.Org and Chair of Legal Special Interest Group * Director of the Virtual State House Project (MIT/Stanford Law School) * Faculty Member: MCLE Health Care & Info. Technology Program * Guest Lecturer for Suffolk Law School High Tech. Symposium * Selection Board Chairman for First Commonwealth of Mass. C/A Business This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on Tuesday, March 4, 1997 from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of the Harvard Club of Boston, One Federal Street. The price for lunch is $27.50. This price includes lunch, room rental, and the speaker's lunch. ;-). The Harvard Club *does* have dress code: jackets and ties for men, and "appropriate business attire" for women. We will attempt to record this meeting and put it on the web in RealAudio format at some future date We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we *really* know you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", by Saturday, March 1, or you won't be on the list for lunch. Checks payable to anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston will have to be sent back. Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston". If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements (We've had to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for instance), please let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work something out. Planned speakers for DCSB are: March Daniel Greenwood The Role of State Government in Digital Commerce April Stewart Baker Encryption Policy and Digital Commerce We are actively searching for future speakers. If you are in Boston on the first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a presentation to the Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program Commmittee, care of Robert Hettinga, <mailto: rah(a)shipwright.com> . For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, send "info dcsb" in the body of a message to <mailto: majordomo(a)ai.mit.edu> . If you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the body of a message to <mailto: majordomo(a)ai.mit.edu> . Looking forward to seeing you there! Cheers, Robert Hettinga Moderator, The Digital Commerce Society of Boston -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMwB+VvgyLN8bw6ZVAQEsRAQAiInZXDXlzdMn0B+b9A6zgWHH5POJku5v k9HIZK286Paw1KWKYsw8VyYjUoG4vq/LAh1CagWkwL4EN9Ysg7kbU+LP0W4u04vb /QoKk5rWpmXuplXx1Fp9IhIe2O6oV0vTInJqPV3zkXk4qGzYUrQ0bqLbQn769iMO 7pwwVbkioSc= =m5Pz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/ FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

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Indiana judge extends gag order to the Net, from TNNN
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 06:31:28 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> To: fight-censorship(a)vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Indiana judge extends gag order to the Net, from TNNN The Netly News Network http://netlynews.com/ Gag On This by Declan McCullagh (declan(a)well.com) February 10, 1997 The point of moving a trial or selecting a jury from a distant county is, of course, to prevent jurors from being influenced by the local media and opinions of the nearby community. But what if the media are global and the community is virtual? That enigma is causing problems for an Indiana couple on trial for reckless homicide in the November 1995 death of their son from meningitis. Bill and Sarah Planck had hoped to demonstrate their innocence through the Net, and so another son created a web site with documents from a counter-lawsuit filed against the county welfare agencies and sheriff's department, detailing how police threatened and intimidated the family. Now the judge presiding over their criminal trial has ordered the Plancks to pull the plug on the site. Madison County judge Fredrick Spencer told me he extended an existing gag order to the Internet because the tort claim notice could influence jurors. "We went two counties away to get the jury. But people in Randolph County have computers and America Online. So to avoid any possible problem, I ordered them to take it off," Spencer said. Spencer says the order was necessary to preserve the integrity of the trial. "It's only the trial that I'm concerned with," he said. "If I don't do what I can, I risk having to do [the trial] over again." Yet as soon as the Plancks yanked the documents offline on January 27, copies sprouted on the web site of a supporter -- beyond the reach of Judge Spencer. Who's right, Spencer or the Plancks? I posed that question to David Post, a professor at Georgetown Law School. "Gag orders may in a way be a thing of the past," he replied. "It becomes an enforcement dilemma with respect to the Internet. It's a hell of a lot easier to enforce that gag order [locally]. You really only have to keep your eye on a very small number of dissemination vehicles," Post said. "Gag orders are violated on occasion, but by and large you have some confidence that they'll be respected. Obviously you can't anymore." Gag orders stem from the right to an impartial jury. "We think that sometimes -- rarely, but sometimes -- that can best be accomplished by controlling the kind of information potential jurors might see. The Net deforms the landscape," Post said. Katharine Liell, the Plancks' attorney, was reluctant to discuss the case for fear of violating the gag order -- which covers her as well. "I'm uncertain what I can and can't say due to the vagueness of the gag order," she said. "Gag orders are supposed to be specific in nature, but I don't understand the nature or breadth of this gag order so I'm not comfortable commenting at this time." The legal question at issue in this prosecution is whether the Plancks are guilty of four felony charges, including reckless homicide and involuntary manslaughter, in the death of Lance Planck from pneumococcal meningitis. The verdict may depend on the answer to one question: Did the Plancks wait too long to call 911? More than the couple, however, is on trial. The case also reveals how a child protection agency can be used as a weapon to threaten parents and divide a family. The mirrored documents tell a sad story of a poor family who lived in a trailer park and home-schooled their eight children, and their long-standing battle with Madison County social workers. The first salvo came in 1992, when a social worker visited the Planck home to investigate the children's alleged vision problems. Based on that visit, a judge ordered that their eyes be examined. A month later, police invaded the Planck home and forcibly removed the children. The tort notice describes other encouters, including tear gas canisters lobbed into their home and warrantless arrests. "I've known the Plancks for a long time," said Brent Tobin, an electrical engineer who mirrored the web site. "I've lived in the town all my life. I know there's nothing going on there. The deputy prosecutor made them out to be religious weirdos, but they're not." "I put up the web site since I don't feel that the county government should have jurisdiction over the World Wide Web. I think there should be freedom of speech. I feel gag orders are a violation of rights," Tobin said. For his part, Judge Spencer emphasized that his gag order "expires at the end of the case. Free speech is an important right and I'm going to be the last person to have a problem with it." What about the mirror site? Has his order accomplished anything? "The Planck supporters are going to put it on there," Spencer replied. "If you're suggesting that I'm tilting at windmills, perhaps you're right." ###

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STE_pup
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

2-10-97: "Euro's creation raises money laundering fears" OECD task force report(*) identifies perils of a single currency and suggests Russian crime groups are linking up with the Mafia and Colombian drug cartels for laundering the new currency. Warns of other e-cash hazards. "Visa to Test Cards For Possible Use On the Internet" E-cash cards to be manufactured by Schlumberger and will use "virtually unbreakable" public-key cryptography. "Computer Security Becomes Biometric With Print Matching" Oracle's new fingerprint checking device to assure bona fide log-on privileges. Covers other such devices, quotes a maker: "if criminals or hackers get through these, industry will step up one more level." ----- STE_pup * A search is on for the report. Leads welcomed. The task force met last week in Paris.

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Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
by Alan Olsen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 05:50 AM 2/11/97 -0800, Sandy Sandfort wrote: >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > SANDY SANDFORT > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > >C'punks, > >You have probably just read John's post. I truly hope YOU (each >and every one of you) can rise to his challenge. If you have >offered nothing in the past but criticism, it's now time to get a >bit more real. What will it be, your money, time, equipment? What kind of memory requirements/machine load does the list eat up? I have a machine that may fit this purpose... (Need to know if I need to upgrade the box though.) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 4.5 iQEVAwUBMwCeq+QCP3v30CeZAQGpwAf+MXRvC4wB6LeJkwsQa7yWI1g2TEYFJZ6O 1wD1S1QeRu1GMGRfUC3/9OTsQFijQLrOVb3MIXiy7bYxzcZsShd2cgKf4cL3HhjV T/PH1M2uUEpOJEHLF4jCKvspySgCuLfHK+7V0+fNRO0MFQZZeCNvEd2Awog8Ue0q OIi/jwBvzNITeBQzGu8zrBuS3VHWjMmi66kio1GV6xFL+JLwQWMsi6hT8hSiZ/TT fOhvAfECT/hGFFDdu3/R0JYkw1B9IO7Uh0NNgH1pl7HoJiBWfU/HTDoRsruKkweX 7eDVPxB0MR10Q5XCeoH1EA3Lwd3HdNFVEsUJc+myjN58vnZ5Vo+TGQ== =CWO1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --- | "Mi Tio es infermo, pero la carretera es verde!" | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano(a)teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan(a)ctrl-alt-del.com|

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Recommendation: Creation of "alt.cypherpunks"
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

(Please leave my name in any replies to ensure I see your comments.) I talked to Hugh Daniel at the Saturday meeting about the creation of an "alt.cypherpunks" unmoderated (of course) newsgroup as a possible alternative (or supplement) to cypherpunks(a)toad.com. Greg Broiles and John Gilmore were there for part of the discussion, too. (We did not, unfortunately, get to the "future of the list" topic at the physical meeting...the excellent presentations ran way over the expected time and we never got to this topic. Sort of too bad, given John's edict that we have 10 days to find and implement an alternative....) A Usenet newsgroup has many advantages and disadvantages. Whether it might be gatewayed to other mailing lists--perhaps even the list(s) which survives "cypherpunks(a)toad.com"--depends of course on the decision of those hosting others lists. A charter statement is needed, and then the issuance of a creation message. A better charter statement will increase the chances of more sites carrying the newsgroup. While many sites carry essentially all newsgroups--more than 30,000--, some sites do not and only carry some of the alt.heirarchy. And some sites do not carry _any_ of the alt newsgroups. At Hugh's suggestion, I'm suggesting a "first cut" at a charter statement. Suggestions for additional language or changes are welcome. Charter for alt.cypherpunks: (suggested) "Alt.cypherpunks is for the unmoderated discussion of cryptography and the political, social, and economic implications of unrestricted, strong cryptography. The Cypherpunks grpup has existed since 1992 and has been central in the debate about strong crypto, government restrictions, crypto anarchy, and in showing weaknesses of various ciphers and security products. The mailing list has had as many as 1500 subscribers, plus gateways to newsgroups and Web sites. It is expected that "alt.cypherpunks" will be a free-wheeling forum for many viewpoints. As it is unmoderated, readers are strongly advised to learn how to use filters and other tools for making virtual anarchies manageable for their own tastes." I invite your comments, editorial suggestions, etc. Perhaps when enough of the "collective mind" has made inputs (ughh!), the charter can be submitted with the creation message. (I'm not knowledgeable about the process, but I'll bet many of you are.) There are of course disadvantages to such a newsgroup, as any Usenet user certainly knows. However, there are advantages as well. Here are some of each: * Advantages: - Usenet is set up to automagically propagate articles across tens of thousands of sites. - there is no "nexus" of control, no chokepoint, no precedent (in the U.S.) for halting distribution of Usenet newsgroups. (Canada stopped some Homulka-Teale newsgroups a few years ago, other countries have blocked entire sections, but note that the Scientologists have been unable to block "alt.religion.scientology"...I surmise that a mailing list version of a.r.s. would have faced lawsuits against the list.owner, if reachable in U.S. or European courts...a lesson to think about with the current imbroglio over certain claims about certain products and the possible liability of Sandy and/or toad.com.) - fairly sophisticated newsreading software already exists. - no "unsuscribe" and "unscrive" messages! (It makes it easy for newcomers to discover the group, read it for a while, then stop. It also, of course, increases the number of "What is crypto?" sorts of messages.) - persons cannot be unsubscribed from an unmoderated list - with a Usenet group, there is no ability to impose notions of "order" on the list (e.g., requirements for PGP-signing, demands for "on-topic" posts, removal of "illegal" posts, etc.). Thus, people must deal with a virtual anarchy by using proper tools, by ignoring what they don't want to see, or by contracting out the role of "nanny" to others. * Disadvantages - Usenet newsgroups are easy targets for spammers, even more so than are mailing lists. - crossposting often gets out of hand. (With 30,000+ newsgroups, even well-intentioned posters often pick the "three or four most likely" targets for their posts). - propagation is often spotty, and some sites have no access at all to the "alt.*" hierarchy. (Many corporate sites block the alt heirarchy. Many academic sites block just the alt.binaries.pictures heirarchy. Etc. A news to mailing list gateway is possible for these readers.) - propagation may be slower than mailing lists. - Usenet is of course archived and easily searchable via Alta Vista, Deja News, etc.. This bothers some people. (However, the CP mailing list is now also archived and searchable, so the disadvantage is becoming moot.) - persons cannot be unsubscribed from an unmoderated list (this is also an advantage, of course) - there will be more newbie-type messages, as casual browsers of Usenet discover alt.cypherpunks and ask questions. This is both a disadvantage and an advantage. * Discussion of some of these points: 1. The issue of slow- or non-propagation can be handled by having mailing lists which bounce the traffic (from a well-connected site) to folks who get slow distribution, or no distribution at all. News to mail gateways, in other words. Traffic in the reverse direction (end reader back to alt.cypherpunks) can be handled either by "blind posting" to the a.c. newsgroup, via one's newsreader, or through mail-to-news gateways, or perhaps via the distributor described here. 2. And the services of "moderators," such as Eric Blossom's and Ray Arachelian's "best of" lists, or even Sandy's list, are of course still possible. A newsgroup does not change this, except for the latency in getting messages out to newsgroup sites. 3. The advantages of a "no nexus, no chokepoint" distribution are huge. The Usenet carries huge advantages in terms of having no place to attack it. 4. Some have raised the point that Usenet is "inefficient" and should not be used for this reason. Well, it may indeed be ineficient, but the costs have already been incurred, and alt.cypherpunks would only be 1/30,000th of additional load (very roughly speaking). In other words, might as well use what's out there. If a "second Usenet" ever comes into existence, fine. 5. Some of us discussed the creation of alt.cypherpunks back in '92-93. At that time, we thought the mailing list had some major advantages. In my view, the situation has changed dramatically since then. The mailing list has become huge, the volume of noise has increased, majordomo is allowing the list to be used for spamming (any 'bot system will probably have this), and the list is already gatewayed to many sites as a _newsgroup_ anyway. So, I think the time has come to just create it. The "activation energy barrier" of a mailing list, where people would have to make the effort to subscribe, has long since become irrelevant. It may be a target for spammers, but it's hard to imagine it being much worse than what we have now. Usenet is an anarchy. We might as well use it. I've never created an alt group, but I presume many of you have (and I know of one currently fed up Cypherpunk who created the entire alt.* hierarchy a decade or so ago). I presume some of you can thus help in such an effort. --Tim May Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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