December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: [Fwd: Re: Victory Party]
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dale Thorn <dthorn(a)gte.net> writes: > aga wrote: > > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:34:37 GMT > > On Sat, 18 Jan 1997, SB wrote: > > From: J Durbin <slothrop(a)poisson.com> > > > Forward on the good Dr. Vulis from ne.internet.services. > > > Newsgroups: ne.internet.services, alt.fan.speedbump, alt.god.grubor > > > Steve Subject: Re: Victory Party > > > hannigan(a)shore.net (Martin Hannigan) wrote: > > >Steve/Grubby/Vulis/Aga: You can come too. Of course. > > > The Cypherpunks mailing list people invited Vulis to come speak > > at one of their CA meetings. They even offered to pay for his airfare > > and lodging, but he was too afraid to show up. > > What a coward, just like Boursy and Grubor. > > > Hey you fucker; you pay my expenses and I will come. > > You get a one hour lecture and one hour of questions and > > answers afterward. Everybody gets frisked for guns at the door, > > since we do not trust some of those cypherpunks. > > Picture the typical cypherpunk (especially Sandfort, who organized the > whole thing): Old, out of shape, ignorant, lonely, perverted, ugly, > etc. etc. Dr. Vulis actually brightened up their "life" for a few > moments, then, when he didn't take the bait for the roast, they felt > rejected, like a love spurned. It's so transparent. It just wasn't worth the time. I found F2F contact with the likes of Hughes and Gilmore pretty boring and unproductive. But if Dr. Grubor wishes to address a Cypherpunks meating, and expose them as a bunch of homosexual censors, I think it would be a neat idea. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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mailing list
by roamer.fau 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Please place me on your mailing list. Thank You, Mark

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I beg you, PLEASE prove that 0.123456789101112131415 is IRRATIONAL
by Secret Squirrel 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dear Cypher Punks, I BEG YOU TO HELP ME!!! Is it possible to prove that number 0.1234567891011121314151617181920... iz irrational? Or may be it is rational? Also, another question for math geniuses here: Is it REALLY true that there are real numbers that cannot be generated by any algorithm? Some guy said that since the set of algorithms is countable, but the set of real numbers is more than countable, there must be some numbers for which there is no algorithms that generate them. But I still do not believe him. Also, is it true that the sequence of digits in e is random because the ONLY way to get to the p'th digit is to calculate the p-1'st digits? Also, is it the correct definition of a real number: ``A real number is the class of numbers which can represent the length of an arbitrary line.'' I AM REAL DESPERATE FOR YOUR ASS ISTANCE.

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microcurrency: Netscape vs. Microsoft
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

it seems that microcurrency has still not hit the "big time" yet. or perhaps some people see otherwise. what is the evidence for how far it has penetrated ala DigiCash etc? I haven't seen much myself. I predict that microcurrency will not catch on in a big way until it is integrated with browsers, and when it is, it will be adopted in an insanely large rush like the way the web itself caught on with the GUI (and was mostly comatose before it). I'd like to have seen microcurrency catch on like a brushfire at this point, and was trying to figure out why it hadn't, and focused on the above key aspect. hence, I wonder: WHO WILL BE THE FIRST TO INCORPORATE A MICROCURRENCY FEATURE IN THEIR BROWSER, MICROSOFT OR NETSCAPE? why am I shouting? because I hope that we can create a buzz around this question, to the point that both manufacturers begin to realize how much is at stake in this single little feature. I'd like to see speculation and articles about it in the trade press. let it turn into a hot topic of conversation.. do either MS or Netsacpe have plans to do so right now? I suspect the future of the browser wars will belong to he who does the microcurrency feature. here's how it might work: the browser has an internal piggyback that can be filled up with cash. it has various features that prohibit a charge of greater than some fixed limit of being made, per time, per site etc... also in no case can more money than is currently in the piggy bank be charged. once the charge hits, there is no contesting allowed, because the charge is so low. a little bar on the user interface could indicate how much cash is left. the idea would also be to invent some new html tags that indicate the charge on a link. the charge is incurred when 1/2 of the page is sent (there would be all kinds of hacks in which people could retrieve only part of a page to avoid the charge, hence this limit or some variation thereof). so when I move my mouse over a link in the browser, I see not only its address as with Netscape's, but also some charge that will incur when I hit it. there could be color coding and little graphics for costs also. notice how much crypto really caught on when Netscape incorporated it, and how this action alone did more for the proliferation of crypto in cyberspace, almost, than all prior efforts combined. I think that microcurrency will be unleashed in a very similar way. the system I describe above can be built up pretty easily from existing technology such as DigiCash. pretty much all the major ingredients are available.. it's just a matter of time before some enterprising programmers plug it all together in an easy to use way. (as far as I know the Digicash software is not easily integrated with any browser, am I correct?) by framing the question as I have above, the question is no longer "how should microcurrency be implemented", or "should it be", but "who will be the first to do it?", a nice competitive incentive to the key companies involved. so, Netscape, Microsoft, are either of you listening? do you have any idea how much is riding on this option? are you working on it right now? if not, are you prepared to face the consequences? has anyone heard any rumors about their intention to implement microcurrency? I've long predicted some pretty revolutionary strides in cyberspace that will make all development up to now look pretty sickly and pale, when microcurrency is invented and brought into a trivial-to-use GUI. in a sense it is the the economic system that the whole industry (or even the whole world) has been waiting for ever since its beginning. it will unleash a torrent of frenzied innovation and reorganization beyond what anyone has ever seen or thought possible. p.s. has anyone done a plugin that handles cash in the way I am referring to? this may be a really neat way for third-party developers to cash in on this, but I suspect that it's so crucial that the browser manufacturers will eventually incorporate it themselves.

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Re: IMDMP: SOURCE CODE RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENT
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 7:26 AM 1/18/1997, Sandy Sandfort wrote: >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > SANDY SANDFORT > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > >C'punks, > >On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk wrote: > >> ...but I must say the list has gone downhill sharply since >> the start of the censorship. > >I guess this a classic case of seeing what you want to see. >(Uh, Paul, the moderation experiment HASN'T STARTED YET.) No, he's got it right. The announcement of the moderation experiment was followed by a decline in interesting threads. "Why is the stock price falling? We only announced nationalization. IT HASN'T STARTED YET."

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Announcing On Line Tax Tips
by GJDCPA＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello,^Morons, January 17, 1997 Subject: Tax Tips and Important Due Date Reminder We are pleased to announce our site at http://www.gjdcpa.com. The purpose of our website is to provide information for the taxpaying public to assist you with your 1996 income tax return preparation.

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Cheap CyberShots
by Toto 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In the interests of upgrading the quality of cheap shots in CyberSpace, I thought I would pass along the following as an example of how to 'finesse' a cheap shot. > Shouting Ground Technologies, Inc. is concerned about the increased > abuse of the internet with "spamming". In this instance, we find > ourselves in a dilemma. > * We do not condone any improper use of the internet, including > spamming. > * We respect the right of privacy of individuals, and the right > to conduct lawful business unhindered. ... > In the past few days we've received a lot of complaints about the > inappropriate messages. Several people have demanded that we take > immediate action. A couple were very critical that we did not > cut their internet access immediately. ... > So people are in effect suggesting that we > * Unilaterally violate the terms of their service contract, subjecting > us to liability for their lost business. > * Violate their right to privacy by filtering and reading all of > their e-mail and news traffic. > Presumably we would have the same culpability for all of our clients, > so we'd have to read everybody's e-mail before passing it on. We > suspect that anybody that wants to be treated that way already > has service with Prodigy.

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Internet Message
by Diode 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: microcurrency: Netscape vs. Microsoft
by Hal Finney 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri(a)netcom.com> > I predict that microcurrency will not catch on in a big way > until it is integrated with browsers, and when it is, it > will be adopted in an insanely large rush like the way > the web itself caught on with the GUI (and was mostly comatose > before it). > [...] > notice how much crypto really caught on when Netscape > incorporated it, and how this action alone did more for > the proliferation of crypto in cyberspace, almost, than > all prior efforts combined. I think that microcurrency > will be unleashed in a very similar way. I assume you are referring to secure web connections via SSL in talking about crypto. In that case there was a very strong pent up demand for the service. Customers were afraid to send credit card numbers and other personal information across the web. Sellers were pressuring the net server companies to do something to quell these concerns so on-line selling could succeed. Netscape did it, and in the grand tradition of the net, implementation beat design and SSL defeated SHTTP. In its early versions SSL had a lot of problems but it was a good enough solution for what it needed to be. The question is whether there is similar market demand for pay per view web pages. Do web service operators think they can offer value added services which will motivate customers to click through the for-pay link? Maybe porn would be a good initial market. There are so many sites where you've got to sign up ahead of time for $20 or so for a month's membership. This is a considerable barrier. But if you could just take a peek for $.50 there would be a lot of people interested. Porn is what started the VCR market before it later "went respectable", so maybe the same thing could happen here. I know that a lot of the initial vendors with First Virtual were selling racy pictures, although I think the company has taken steps to reduce their association with that market. This is not exactly the microcurrency that Vladimir is talking about but it would be a good model for integrating some payment system with a browser and it could serve as the foundation for other for-pay pages with lower fees. There is also the issue of sellers learning to use the various payment systems which are out there. Here again if Netscape and Microsoft would just pick one then everyone could standardize on it, which would increase acceptance a great deal. Ecash as it is implemented now has the problem that the customer has to open a special bank account. What you need is a payment system where you can use your existing VISA card and withdraw cash against it into your electronic wallet. This is pretty close to the FV model but their payment system is somewhat clumsy. I haven't followed the electronic payment market closely for the last couple of years. Are there any payment systems which look like good candidates for integration with browsers? Hal

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Donna Rice, etc.
by John C. Randolph 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Toto wrote: > Sir Robin of Locksley wrote: > > > Donna Rice-Hughes from Enough is Enough says: "It discusses > > > three primary areas of our concern: letting the court know the > > > problems on the Internet. Adult pornography, indecency, and > > > child porn as well. > > Now it's porn, tomorrow it's you saying what you beleive (that > > might also be the truth...) If one is offended by something, > > don't look! How come Catholicism doesn't get banned and outlawed? > > Hell, it offends me... >I didn't see the question anywhere, so I'm asking: >This Donna Rice-Hughes couldn't possibly be the Donna Rice who sat on >Gary Hart's lap for the famous picture, could she? Yes, it's the very same Bimbo who scuttled Gary Hart's campaign, and then parlayed that notoriety into a modeling contract.. Mind you, I'm all for Bimbos knocking dipshit hypocrites out of the running for a presidential nomination, but the idea of having this "party girl" try to police the content of my beloved internet really pisses me off. She made money in the past wiggling her tits for the camera, and again, I'm all for bimbos making money wiggling for cameras, but when she tries to tell me what I should or shouldn't be able to see, my reply *must* be: Fuck you, you hypocritical, ignorant, little slut. I am also going to take issue with her trysting with a married man. I wish Hart's wife had verbally beaten the living shit out of her. -jcr Obligatory Crypto Policy reference: Why couldn't she have scuttled Feurher Clinton's career, instead?

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