December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

take me off your mailing list
by FWJZ05A＠prodigy.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

unsubcribe cypherpunks

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take me off your mailing list
by FWJZ05A＠prodigy.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

unsubcribe cypherpunks

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Dossier on Tim May is Easily Obtainable
by smith＠sctc.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The thorough investigator respects the value of physical records and interviews with those actually present. Bit rot is a tricky thing, and so are simple string matches. At 7:15 PM 11/12/96, Timothy C. May wrote: >To illustrate, let me call up my BlackNet Dossier Service entry on you. >www.black.net... I'll just pick _part_ of your entry, from exactly 30 years >ago: >[,,,,much stuff about Mr. Smith elided....] >So, Mr. Smith...is the dossier entry basically correct? Perhaps that was the Rick Smith in the class behind or before me who is or is not shown in yearbook photos with that blonde cheerleader. Or perhaps it was another Rick Smith who does or does not appear in yearbook photographs in the company of various brunette females. Could it have been the Rick Smith whose house got struck by lightning in our town a few weeks back? Or the Rick Smith who just got a building permit? Are these all the same person? Nope. On the other hand, a review of physical records from that important era of the mid 1960s *does* indicate the existence of one and only one young Timothy Christopher May in the vicinity of Langley, Va. Interviews with [SOURCE DELETED] indicate that this young Timothy Christopher May was known for a clever and abrasive style of discourse. Investigators note that the exact same style of discourse appears in the postings of one "Tim May" who is associated with that subversive cabal known as "cypherpunks." The interviews also indicate that young Timothy Christopher May was observed on numerous occasions to be reading Scientific American in the school library and didn't always "share." E-mail messages authored by "Tim May" and intercepted by [SOURCE DELETED] state that he has read Scientific American on numerous occasions. At this time there is no evidence as to whether or not "Tim May" willingly shares his magazines with others, though some investigators argue that it is unlikely. Records retrieved from [SOURCE DELETED] also show that the young Timothy Christopher May exploited his interest in physics for destructive purposes, like elaborate pranks involving fictious weaponry and national security information. [INFORMATION DELETED FOR NATIONAL SECURITY REASONS -- ORCON U31 -- OADR FOR RECLASSIFICATION] However, more careful investigators have uncovered evidence to suggest that this was not entirely a prank. Records from [SOURCE DELETED] indicate that the young Timothy Christopher May purchased a huge gap magnet from Edmund Scientific Company and also produced science fair project titled "Ball Lightning: A Stable Plasma?" Investigators suspect the timing of these events is not a coincidence. Unfortunately, the photographs of young Timothy Christopher May being escorted out of Earth Science class by agents of the Office of Naval Intelligence have somehow been tampered with and are difficult to reconstruct. Perhaps with modern technology... Hmmm, similarities in name, interests, style of discourse, and a history of technological subversion. Is this the same individual, thirty years later? Gentle readers, you decide. Rick. smith(a)sctc.com

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Catholic University talk; ISP-TV
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 10:35:20 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh <declan(a)well.com> To: fight-censorship(a)vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Unabashed self-promotion I'm speaking at the Catholic University Law School about online speech/crypto/copyright issues at 6:30 pm today. Anyone in DC is welcome to stop by; the talk will be in the Columbus School of Law. Also tonight at 8 pm I'll be Brock Meeks' guest on the debut of his ISP-TV show, "Meeks Unfiltered." We'll be talking about what the U.S. elections mean to the Net. We plan to argue about universal service as well. http://www.digex.net/isptv/ -Declan

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Re: Exon Countdown Clock and farewell messages
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:59 AM 11/8/96 -0800, Michael Page wrote and Rich Graves forwarded: >> ... >> >We would attempt to send it via a Email, but the respected Senator does not >> >have Email. (The Irony). >> ... To Which, on Mon, 11 Nov 1996, I wrote: >> There is no irony here, Mr. Exon tried to control the internet for the very >> reason that he didn't understand it and one of his granddaughters did. >> Perhaps if he did understand the internet then he wouldn't be a threat. >> Remember, people fear that which they don't understand. To which, at 07:57 PM 11/12/96 -0800, Declan McCullagh wrote: >I disagree. I think people understand the printing press and still want >to control it. Morality police are morality police, no matter what the >medium or how well they understand it. A valid point, and Exon may have had designs of media control the whole time. The methods he used and the arguments he stated, however, suggested to me, that he was someone who did not comprehend the technology. Those who he was able to sway with the dossier of .GIF's certainly were ignorant, many of them were turned by that one display of images.

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CDT's Jonah Seiger on ISP-TV's "Real Time"
by ISP-TV Main Contact 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

*** ISP-TV Program Announcement: Live interview with Jonah Seiger, Policy Analyst for the Center for Democracy and Technology *** *** Monday, Nov. 18 *** *** 9:00 PM ET *** Jonah Seiger, Policy Analyst and online organizer with the Center for Democracy and Technology (CDT), will be on ISP-TV's "Real Time" interview series this monday night. Seiger has been very active on both the crypto rights front and opposing the Communications Decency Act. He worked with Senator Burns to put the first Congressional Hearing on the Internet, played a key role in organizing an online petition which generated over 115,000 signatures in opposition to the CDA, and helped to organize the "Black Thursday Protest." We will ask Jonah questions about what the future of crypto regulation will be in the next Congress, and the efforts of the Citizens Internet Empowerment Coalition (CIEC) in fighting against the CDA in the Supreme Court. This video interview can be viewed on the ISP-TV main CU-SeeMe reflector at IP 205.197.247.33, or other ISP-TV affiliate reflectors listed at http://www.digex.net/isptv/members.html See URL http://www.digex.net/isptv for more information about the ISP-TV Network To obtain Enhanced CU-SeeMe software, go to: http://goliath.wpine.com/cudownload.htm

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In case it isn't obvious
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In case it isn't obvious, I respect the right of the freedom-knights folks to do whatever they want on their mailing list. The list is theirs; they can operate it as they please. But perhaps I can show them the folly of their definitions of "censorship." Kicking off someone who engages in personal attacks and off-topic rants will usually improve, not hurt, the tenor of conversation on the list. The tragedy of the commons and all. In my experience, and I've talked about this at some length with Prof. Volokh who runs a number of lists himself, the best and most valuable discussion lists are those that are unmoderated but have a list owner who has the power to kick folks off a list and can try to steer the direction of a conversation if it veers too far from the list's charter. -Declan

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Re: Secrecy: My life as a nym. (Was: nym blown?)
by Rick Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hal Finney wrote: : Are there other measures which parents could take while their children are : young to get them off to a good start, privacy-wise? I doubt it's ever too late to start. Sure, it seems as if old, crufty bits sit on the 'Net just waiting to embarass us ("oh, yeah, maybe I *did* post to alt.naughty.stuff 'way back then...") but there *is* such a thing as bit rot and perhaps it really is our friend after all. The first question, always, when evaluating security measures is to ask "What are you trying to protect?" This gets really weird when you don't know what the threats really are, which is true of this situation. I don't really see "privacy" itself as something you can pursue as an absolute objective. I think Black Unicorn's tale illustrates this well -- he doesn't try for non-existence, instead he describes a series of well reasoned and consistent steps. Basically, though, it has to be a personal choice. So it's hard to judge perfectly for another, even your own kids. IMHO you have to find a reasonable balance for your kids. The problem is that you don't want your kids to disappear -- there are times they will WANT their records found. The problem is to make verification easy when they're directly involved and difficult otherwise. The basic and obvious rule to most of us is to control the SSN and don't give out a correct one except when absolutely necessary. One of the banks in Minneapolis refuses to pay interest at all if you don't have your SSN on file. I toyed with the idea of manipulating birthdates, but it wasn't clear what the benefit was. Also, it required my wife's help, and I'll defer to Tim May's recent discussion of his'n'her anarchy if you wonder why this might be an impediment. If the kids know their "real" birthdate they'll *always* report it to their teachers. And if it's consistently incorrect in school records, then what does it mean for it to be different? When faced with peculiar situations I try to choose a disclosure that meets whatever the immediate requirements are but doesn't make it easy to automatically match up records. Often the best you can do is reduce certainty and increase the likelihood of multiple matches with other records. It doesn't hurt if you last name is Smith here in the U.S.A. Rick. smith(a)sctc.com

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Re: Secrecy: My life as a nym. (Was: nym blown?)
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:14 PM 11/11/96 -0600, Igor Chudov wrote: >This is an interesting topic. I apologize if my questions are too trivial, >but here they are: > > 1) Can a person without an SSN have a credit record? Some > may say that a credit record is a bad thing to have, > but I am still interested in a possibility. > 2) Will private lenders (such as credit card issuers or > mortgage companies) agree to extend credit to a person > without an SSN or to someone who refuses to give out his SSN? > 3) Will the state issue a driver's license to someone who does not > have/does not wish to give out their SSN? > 4) Will states' police (where applicable) approve purchases of > firearms if purchasers do not state their ssn (misstating it > may be a crime) on an application? > 5) Employers are required to pay certain taxes and therefore > they, in my understanding, need to know their employees SSNs. > How can people get around that (unless they do not need to work)? > 6) Can someone without an SSN obtain various kinds of insurance? > >It is my understanding that the law does not regulate use of social >security numbers between private parties. Businesses are free to refuse >to do business with someone who does not present them an SSN. In real >life, how inconvenient is life of a privacy-concerned individual? > >Say, John Anonymous is a young 15 years old who anticipates to become an >engineer and have a middle class life. He wants to get married, have >children, drive a car, obtain insurance, work at some big company, >travel around the world, invest in mutual funds or buy stocks, and so >on. Reliance on government help is not important to him, so he would not >apply for an SSN solely to get Social Security, welfare and such. > >His parents are cypherpunks and did not obtain an SSN for John. How much >effort would it cost him to live a life outlined above? He couldn't, at least not in Oklahoma. In Oklahoma, students in public schools are now required to have SSN's. This may not apply to private schools, but I imagine that it does, at least to some degree. Having a high school education is certainly necessary to gain the Masters necessary to be an engineer. However, getting a drivers liscense should be easy. My sisters drivers liscense number is one that was randomly generated, all because she did not know her SSN off of the top of her head. My drivers liscense number is the same as my SSN, all because I know my state mandated serial number. For all practical purposes, I am Roach, Sean 447-xx-xxxx. Note, 447 refers to the state of my birth. My sisters record is at least a little more convoluted.

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Re: Exon Countdown Clock and farewell messages
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

If Exon had understood the Internet, he would have wanted to control it even more. Worse yet, his staff would have drafted a CDA more likely to pass constitutional muster. -Declan On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Sean Roach wrote: > At 09:59 AM 11/8/96 -0800, Michael Page wrote and Rich Graves forwarded: > > >> ... > >> >We would attempt to send it via a Email, but the respected Senator does not > >> >have Email. (The Irony). > >> ... > > To Which, on Mon, 11 Nov 1996, I wrote: > > >> There is no irony here, Mr. Exon tried to control the internet for the very > >> reason that he didn't understand it and one of his granddaughters did. > >> Perhaps if he did understand the internet then he wouldn't be a threat. > >> Remember, people fear that which they don't understand. > > To which, at 07:57 PM 11/12/96 -0800, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > >I disagree. I think people understand the printing press and still want > >to control it. Morality police are morality police, no matter what the > >medium or how well they understand it. > > A valid point, and Exon may have had designs of media control the whole > time. The methods he used and the arguments he stated, however, suggested > to me, that he was someone who did not comprehend the technology. Those who > he was able to sway with the dossier of .GIF's certainly were ignorant, many > of them were turned by that one display of images. > // declan(a)eff.org // I do not represent the EFF // declan(a)well.com //

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