December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Undeliverable Message
by MAILER-DAEMON＠mqg-smtp3.usmc.mil 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To: <cypherpunks(a)toad.com> Cc: Subject: Re: It is good that anon.penet.fi has been closed! Message not delivered to recipients below. Press F1 for help with VNM error codes. VNM3043: BANYAN SERVER@MAG26@2DMAW NEW RIVER VNM3043 -- MAILBOX IS FULL The message cannot be delivered because the recipient's mailbox contains the maximum number of messages, as set by the system administrator. The recipient must delete some messages before any other messages can be delivered. The maximum message limit for a user's mailbox is 10,000. The default message limit is 1000 messages. Administrators can set message limits using the Mailbox Settings function available in the Manage User menu (MUSER). When a user's mailbox reaches the limit, the user must delete some of the messages before the mailbox can accept any more incoming messages. UNDEFINED-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Sun, 1 Sep 1996, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > I believe that Private Idaho is a cypherpunks remailer client for Windows. True. But it is a seperate program from email clients which means that anyone wanting to use Private Idaho has to download it, install it, and learn how to use it in conjunction with one's email program. Most people who may have a need for anonymity have probably never heard of PGP or Private Idaho. I think that until remailer functions are actually built into the programs that people use, remailer use will be rare. - -- Mark PGP encrypted mail prefered. Key fingerprint = d61734f2800486ae6f79bfeb70f95348 http://www.voicenet.com/~markm/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMipNqizIPc7jvyFpAQFy0Qf+LbMgy3PBJ+ipGbxblKbjEm09aiziLEpD p7JCudf6TrBUdF+2PwTdxK/sOCITE9lTwbycAgeCvEYNUJEbsR3a6ix5fxbQuF8p Y9/tEbLVESUz0/+UthVnBasbFsCOzHV+ztlIRIk8SEEJKxsu8cNRZqcjaAqH5Q1A dmBKZ9KGQWPNuc5oLfqahyzroa8kAG59HSDm+ntV9fwduKNi8wSV6WFmA2s9pnZa +yRRXmSm4PkWVXgNdQCosTTcD1enSIBcH2WAQu1jpDZbbs6+6v1KvdPa5+WOvTs3 kpBfFBlsmVkWJS63ouqDb7yihoq/qZvhyE2Fske8uVYh9M5Ffn9AKg== =md6D -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Undeliverable Message
by MAILER-DAEMON＠mqg-smtp3.usmc.mil 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To: <cypherpunks(a)toad.com> Cc: Subject: Re: DON'T Nuke Singapore Back into the Stone Age Message not delivered to recipients below. Press F1 for help with VNM error codes. VNM3043: BANYAN SERVER@MAG26@2DMAW NEW RIVER VNM3043 -- MAILBOX IS FULL The message cannot be delivered because the recipient's mailbox contains the maximum number of messages, as set by the system administrator. The recipient must delete some messages before any other messages can be delivered. The maximum message limit for a user's mailbox is 10,000. The default message limit is 1000 messages. Administrators can set message limits using the Mailbox Settings function available in the Manage User menu (MUSER). When a user's mailbox reaches the limit, the user must delete some of the messages before the mailbox can accept any more incoming messages. UNDEFINED-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Mon, 2 Sep 1996, James Seng wrote: > Now, what makes you think that citizen of Country A has the power or > rights to tell politicians of Country B what to do and what they cannot do? > Just wondering. I have every right as a citizen of country A to tell politicians of country B what they should or shouldn't do. This isn't about American Ideology; it's about natural rights. Politicians of country B can refuse to listen to me or attempt to prevent my corrupt ideas from polluting the minds of its citizens, but they won't succeed very well with the latter. Of course, politicians may be satisfied with making sure that only the most determined citizens will be able to access information they don't want citizens to access, but as technology progresses, it will become much more difficult to prevent this information from spreading to the masses. > > ps: Sorry for the off-topic discussion. Cpunks is certainly not the best place to be discussing free speech. However, the link between free speech and the spread of cryptographic technology is too close to completely overlook. - -- Mark PGP encrypted mail prefered. Key fingerprint = d61734f2800486ae6f79bfeb70f95348 http://www.voicenet.com/~markm/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMipSASzIPc7jvyFpAQFYyAgAuy7FvTpGHqYHi9zw3FMiea2tLnYVWPU6 D6VrGvN5NxRtTE8yW3eKrc1iU/0jQIVxHtUhHcodbPfvGqEtwuZKKbbknNj5GmzS pmhcYPguXDwlXL4m3IjxEvhPg7GZ7tjbhXlPK7ADu0EHxvjwesAcrKyCPddu0i9U e83bo3Q4vBT75WPVpSI1i6jJmC7ql4s3GZVvP2Qf6hzvu9fwSKbAra0ZLBFVKf25 WKwNK2eTVBcQOYytwXOQmdSV/hgFB/Y2T6+PHgnAjaDVeX3WqUuxggk6DpBY2V8g bORwsuZyweJviVZIOjbLx6RDeNJQWWSjUCojHvJyKzqffg23Fi8bAw== =+23m -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: It is good that anon.penet.fi has been closed!
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a challenging article posted 12:33 PM 9/1/96 -0500, ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov) wrote: >Yes, subject says it all. anon.penet.fi was a whole lot worse than >cypherpunks remailers. It provided clueless users with no real security, >because it stored return addresses and did not use chaining and >encryption. There are different reasons people use remailers, different amounts of security they need, and different levels of security that the remailers can provide. Anon.penet.fi was a Good Thing. It got a few hundred thousand people thinking about remailers, and why they want them, and thinking they were good tools. It helped the public learn that anonymity is useful for real people, and helped the public learn that they can't always believe an email message is from the "person" on the From: line, and that email and news postings aren't always authentic just because they come out of a computer :-) One way to provide privacy is through heavy mathematics; for some people, and some threats, you need that. Another way to provide privacy is through a trusted operator who's willing to put up with a lot of crap to provide the service. For many people, that's enough - not for people worried about eavesdroppers and overthrowing governments, but enough for people talking about their attitudes toward work and sex and drugs who don't want their email traced by their employers, nosy neighbors, or local vice cops. And part of this security is the willingness to close down a popular service when it's security is threatened. One feature that's really needed for many remailer applications is reply addresses. Doing that securely with cypherpunks-style remailers is hard; doing it securely with trusted-sysop remailers is much easier, and even then there were occasional bugs, and plain surprises. In general, anything that knows the return path is vulnerable; if the person sending the reply knows the destination address, which doesn't apply to many of the applications, the remailer system in between can be secure, but otherwise you're not "truly secure" - only "pretty good". Knowing what the users really want to do helps you do it more securely. >From what I know of remailer history, the main original goal of the cypherpunks-style remailer was to provide security against traffic analysis by eavesdroppers, rather than to prevent the recipient from knowing the sender's address, though everybody pretty quickly realized that the latter was an interesting feature, especially coupled with posting to Usenet. Learning the differences between what people will really do with 2-way remailers as opposed to 1-way remailers can be done better with an easy-to-use 2-way remailer like penet.fi which can get 500,000 (possibly duplicated) users than with moderately complicated systems like alpha.c2.org or the really complicated things that may be needed to get better security. >Maybe closing of anon.penet.fi will spur real interest from the unwashed >alt.sex.* masses to the truly secure remailers. Who knows; maybe the most effective way to fund "truly secure" (bwah-hah-ha) remailers will turn out to be to carry phone sex advertising :-) Or maybe somebody will build a decent digicash interface to a remailer, which will help get digicash going now that everybody who uses remailers will be looking for a new home. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # <A HREF="http://idiom.com/~wcs"> Reassign Authority!

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Re: It is good that anon.penet.fi has been closed!
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a challenging article posted 12:33 PM 9/1/96 -0500, ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov) wrote: >Yes, subject says it all. anon.penet.fi was a whole lot worse than >cypherpunks remailers. It provided clueless users with no real security, >because it stored return addresses and did not use chaining and >encryption. There are different reasons people use remailers, different amounts of security they need, and different levels of security that the remailers can provide. Anon.penet.fi was a Good Thing. It got a few hundred thousand people thinking about remailers, and why they want them, and thinking they were good tools. It helped the public learn that anonymity is useful for real people, and helped the public learn that they can't always believe an email message is from the "person" on the From: line, and that email and news postings aren't always authentic just because they come out of a computer :-) One way to provide privacy is through heavy mathematics; for some people, and some threats, you need that. Another way to provide privacy is through a trusted operator who's willing to put up with a lot of crap to provide the service. For many people, that's enough - not for people worried about eavesdroppers and overthrowing governments, but enough for people talking about their attitudes toward work and sex and drugs who don't want their email traced by their employers, nosy neighbors, or local vice cops. And part of this security is the willingness to close down a popular service when it's security is threatened. One feature that's really needed for many remailer applications is reply addresses. Doing that securely with cypherpunks-style remailers is hard; doing it securely with trusted-sysop remailers is much easier, and even then there were occasional bugs, and plain surprises. In general, anything that knows the return path is vulnerable; if the person sending the reply knows the destination address, which doesn't apply to many of the applications, the remailer system in between can be secure, but otherwise you're not "truly secure" - only "pretty good". Knowing what the users really want to do helps you do it more securely. >From what I know of remailer history, the main original goal of the cypherpunks-style remailer was to provide security against traffic analysis by eavesdroppers, rather than to prevent the recipient from knowing the sender's address, though everybody pretty quickly realized that the latter was an interesting feature, especially coupled with posting to Usenet. Learning the differences between what people will really do with 2-way remailers as opposed to 1-way remailers can be done better with an easy-to-use 2-way remailer like penet.fi which can get 500,000 (possibly duplicated) users than with moderately complicated systems like alpha.c2.org or the really complicated things that may be needed to get better security. >Maybe closing of anon.penet.fi will spur real interest from the unwashed >alt.sex.* masses to the truly secure remailers. Who knows; maybe the most effective way to fund "truly secure" (bwah-hah-ha) remailers will turn out to be to carry phone sex advertising :-) Or maybe somebody will build a decent digicash interface to a remailer, which will help get digicash going now that everybody who uses remailers will be looking for a new home. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # <A HREF="http://idiom.com/~wcs"> Reassign Authority!

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Educating former anon.penet.fi users about other remailers
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've gotten about 5 messages from daemon(a)anon.penet.fi telling me that the remailer is closed; don't know if they're from various previous identities, or if they're from postings to mailing lists with anonymous people on them, or whatever. If somebody were to put together a one-page note on other remailers, would it make sense to send it to all the penet.fi users? A canonical cypherpunks approach would be to just write one and send it to na000001(a)anon.penet.fi ..... na600000(a)anon.penet.fi, but I assume either my system or Julf's would decide it was spam and discard it (even if it were split up into 60,000 10-message chunks.) The press release on www.penet.fi does contain pointers to the FAQs, but people have to go looking for that. On the other hand, if there are an extra 10,000 hits per day on alpha.c2.org because of a really well-written one-page blurb, can it handle the load? # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # <A HREF="http://idiom.com/~wcs"> Reassign Authority!

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More child pornography nonsense
by E. ALLEN SMITH 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> webslingerZ > _________________________________________________________________ > POLICE SEARCH INTERNET FOR CHILD SEX ABUSERS > __________________________________________________________________________ > Copyright &copy 1996 Nando.net > Copyright &copy 1996 Reuter Information Service > STOCKHOLM, Sweden (Aug 31, 1996 00:11 a.m. EDT) - Police across Europe > widened their net Friday to track down a pedophile network which is > spreading increasingly to the hard-to-detect Internet, while at an > international conference, Southeast Asia was cast as a major > destination for child sex tourists. > At the World Congress Against Commercial Sexual Exploitation of > Children, which has attracted over 1,000 delegates to Stockholm from > 130 countries, campaigners outlined measures to crack down on > pedophiles' use of the Internet. > Norway's ombudsman for children, Trond Waage, said to date there was > very little action that could be taken to stop the distribution of > child pornography on the Internet. > But he said the establishment last week of an international body to > monitor child pornography on the net, a task taken on by the Norwegian > branch of Save the Children, was firm action against pedophiles using > the net. > "This is a kind of a cybercop," Waage told reporters. > "We need some visible cops on the net. If you undertake these kinds of > criminal activities someone will monitor you." > Save the Children will try to monitor any child pornography on the > Internet and is encouraging other net surfers to pass on information > that will be handed to the police. Want to bet how fast they'll be mail-bombed? Cops on the net are _not_ popular, no matter what they're doing. This fact is especially true when there's no actual harm taking place (unlike, say, spamming) - the harm has _already_ taken place by the time the material is on the Internet. Should we ban films with violence because they _might_ be snuff films? -Allen

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Re: wardialer
by pjn＠nworks.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Does any body know where I can get a half decent war dialer. > In> Use a websearch utility, and stop posting to cryptography-based In> mailing lists. Someone should shoot that kid and put US out of OUR misery... :) P.J. pjn(a)nworks.com ... Nothing is opened more often by mistake than YOUR mouth. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

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Re: Free Speech and List Topics
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 5:17 AM 9/2/96, qut wrote: >About the need for limits for anonymity, guess what brought that on? >Crime? Yes! The crime of the media monopoly violating the anti-trust >acts, because people are ignorant enough to trust the mass media for >their news. No self-respecting Cypherpunk thinks the Antitrust Act and related acts are worthy of enforcement. (Think of how the technology we support will tend to allow new avenues for price collusion, interlocking directorates, new forms of business combines, unreadable secure communications with foreign competitors, and so on, all things the Antitrust regulators are already growing worried about.) --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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"Always make new mistakes"
by liberty＠gate.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Esther Dyson sigfiled: ... > Esther Dyson Always make new mistakes! OK, but must we always be trying to make the same *old* ones, only in a new medium? <sigh> At least there's still EPIC (for now, I'm wondering when _they_ decide to cave?). I'm feeling pessimistic. JMR Regards, Jim Ray -- DNRC Minister of Encryption Advocacy & Weekend Winsock Wemailer Opewator. "Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech." -- Benjamin Franklin Defeat the Duopoly! Stop the Browne-out! Harry Browne for President. Jo Jorgensen for Vice-president. http://www.HarryBrowne96.org/ http://www.twr.com/stbo ___________________________________________________________________ PGP id.E9BD6D35 51 5D A2 C3 92 2C 56 BE 53 2D 9C A1 B3 50 C9 C8 <mailto:liberty@gate.net> http://www.shopmiami.com/prs/jimray ___________________________________________________________________ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMirUhG1lp8bpvW01AQHR3QQAl9EvaUOCHnTZ0eyIa+kv41fXDJMsOC0v BUGKvnz3rfVxRTS3JiHALB93Kc1F+kSjoOd7ftM42Pod4bsreSAHJ0CInJ2Q8iYS r7Y2/opiY139YonF4WsD6IPTMA2Hfip9t8EACu0v2jIvxSCBqwa84WVrAxCijS9t qfKK8d3Xw9g= =6tBV -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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The AI-who???
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

An admittedly leftist interpretation of recent Alaskan electorial events, for those fans of the Alaskan Independance Party... Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text From: sxaeg(a)aurora.alaska.edu (GREENWALT ART E) (by way of rah(a)shipwright.com (Robert A. Hettinga)) To: rah(a)shipwright.com Subject: The AI-who??? Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks Path: news-central.tiac.net!news-in.tiac.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!news.alaska.edu!aurora.alaska.edu!sxaeg Newsgroups: alt.culture.alaska Date: 29 Aug 1996 01:07:38 GMT Lines: 35 NNTP-Posting-Host: aurora.alaska.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.1.2 Okay, okay...I know everyone has been sitting on the edge of their privy seats wondering how the Rent-A-Party (aka "The Sub-Arctic Titanic of Politics") fared in the recent primaries here in the Interior, so here goes. Now, keep something in mind as you read these results: the Interior is the heart of the Rent-A-Party. Der Fuhrer Vogel "graced" us with his presence and as the infirmities of advancing age took their toll, he devised the party back in the mid-70's here in the Interior. So...you should think the bastion, the stronghold, Yea, Brethren and Sistren!, the very for-r-r-r-rtress of AIP-ity would be...the INTERIOR! Amen! The AIP fielded 1 candidate here on the Fairbanks ballots: Paul Chizmar. He finished last. Indeed, surpassing even the last performance of the party when they dropped from their 1990 high of 39% of the vote to their 1994 basement 13% of the vote, we now see them seeking subterranean levels as their sole candidate on the entire ballot received *barely* 11% of the vote! Right here! In the Interior! Just about 15 miles from Lynette and Dexter Clarke, the penultimate-Grand Poobahs of Das Partie! Tsk.... I tell ya, folks...I love to watch "Rocky and Bullwinkle", "Monty Python", "The 3 Stooges", the "Little Rascals", etc. But when the AIP finally dwindles/splinters/transmogrifies into its final bit of light and then that little glimmer goes out....I will have lost one of my greatest sources of amusement Alaska has ever offered me. Sigh.... .....Art, who will just have to watch more 3 Stooges and see if he can tell which one is Joe... --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "'Bart Bucks' are not legal tender." -- Punishment, 100 times on a chalkboard, for Bart Simpson The e$ Home Page: http://www.vmeng.com/rah/

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