December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Fw: Re: Free Pronto Secure Offer
by geoff＠commtouch.co.il 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- To: unicorn(a)schloss.li, cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Thu Aug 15 10:53:53 1996 On 14 Aug unicorn wrote: > "Do all the work I should be doing or have done in the first place > discover the critical flaws in my new-keen-o-ka-jive-o crypto system > and I will give you a free copy of a critically flawed crypto system > (a $99.00 value) ABSOLUTELY FREE. Wait, don't order yet. Included > you also get to> actually whitewash my fence and then mow my lawn. > All at NO COST to you." Unicorn, please try to take a minute to think before hitting that send key. You infer that a product is critically flawed without even trying it ? There are quite a few members of this list who are using Pronto Secure and will testify to the contrary. See http://www.commtouch.com/testers.htm for a list of people who take the trouble to try out a product before venturing an opinion. Agreed that feedback from external testers is a good deal for developers. It is also not a bad deal for evaluators, they get a free copy of a product which in the case of Pronto Secure many find useful (as witnessed by x-mailer headers on c'punk traffic). Testers also get an opportunity to contribute neat feature ideas which helps propagate secure messaging to the masses. Unicorn, you are invited to whitewash my fence :) - --------------------------------------------------------------- Geoff Klein, Pronto Secure Product Manager; www.commtouch.com My PGP public Key 1814AD45 can be obtained by sending a message to geoff(a)commtouch.co.il with "Get PGP Key" as the subject. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBMhLXlELv5OMYFK1FAQHoCQP/Tg13glNoTAq4OdHJ5tay+x67kpAg3eIn JwMG/spaV/R5z9iec2wE3BQNWbta2lGF2hZUwkyRNUPX/01024024rg4wp3dIrUQ gk5vl9hG7kbTIOzLKgyEKvQs8yBs+9A3KfE3HY47vm78qMVF0QE11PECMWubnfg6 be7yL9/U64M= =923l -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Last word: auto video surveillance report[long]
by The Prisoner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I know this is pushing it as far as crypto-relevance. I won't bring up the subject again. But this was too much to not pass along - there are some interesting insights into the mindset at work, and if I had to justify the cryptorelevance it would be by promoting the value of knowing the mind of Brother ... both Little and Big. For those not familiar with Calif. bureaucratese: "HOV" is "High Occupancy Vehicle" and an "HOV Lane" is a carpool lane. Edited doc. follows (from http://www.bts.gov/smart/cat/274.html) Use of Videotape in HOV Lane Surveillance and Enforcement: Final Report USE OF VIDEOTAPE IN HOV LANE SURVEILLANCE AND ENFORCEMENT FINAL REPORT By John W. Billheimer Ken Kaylor Charles Shade Submitted to State of California Department of Transportation under Contract 55 G710 D232 March 1990 SYSTAN,INC. in ATD,INC. 343 Second Street Association 6431 Independence Avenue P.O. Box U with Woodland Hills, CA 91367 Los Altos, CA 94023 PREFACE AND ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS This report covers a six-month study designed to explore the use of vidoetape in HOV lane surveillance and enforcement. The study is an extension of an earlier investigation of the effects of different enforcement strategies and engineering designs on violation rates on California's mainline HOV lanes. The report has been prepared in the Los Altos, California offices of SYSTAN, Inc. under Contract No. 55 G71 0 with the California Department of Transportation (CALTRANS). The project was jointly sponsored by the California Highway Patrol (CHP). Mr. Philip Jang, Chief of the HOV Systems Branch of CALTRANS Division of Traffic Operations served as project administrator, while Scott McGowen of CALTRANS acted as the project's technical monitor. ... SYSTAN wishes to thank all those who provided information and insights on the enforcement and operation of California's mainline HOV lanes, and acknowledges full responsibility for the analysis, interpretation, and presentation of the data they provided. ... 1.1.1 Background ... It has been suggested that using video equipment to assist in HOV lane enforcement could reduce the requirements for patrol officers, increase citation rates, and minimize freeway disruption. The current investigation has been designed to extend past studies of HOV lane enforcement by testing both the feasibility and accuracy of the use of video equipment in HOV lane surveillance. 1.1.2 Objective The objective of the current study has been to demonstrate and test the use of video equipment in determining vehicle occupancy, documenting violator identity, and aiding enforcement of HOV lanes. ... Field tests showed that it is technologically possible to record several accurate views of vehicles traveling in mainline HOV lanes. Specifications and costs of the equipment needed for videotape surveillance are summarized below. Cameras. Best results are obtained with high speed color cameras capable of achieving exposure times of 1/1000 of a second. A 14:1 zoom lens is needed to focus on oncoming vehicles at distances of approximately 1200 feet. Cameras placed at eye-level on the freeway itself should be small and unobtrusive. Auxiliary Equipment. Two monitors with split screen capability are required in the control van. One monitor provides an on-line review capability, while the other provides a permanent record of all camera views. A special effects generator should be used to make the exact time and location a permanent part of the videotape record. Polarizing filters help to solve problems with glare from shiny cars and windshields, although they reduce the light-gathering capability of the cameras. Infra-red cameras and light sources can be used to document license plates after dark by videotaping the rear license plates of departing cars. However, it does not appear feasible to videotape oncoming vehicles under conditions of darkness or low visibility. Results are not clear and the infra-red light source can distract oncoming drivers. ... 1.3.3 Potential Applications Although it is technologically possible to record a series of accurate views of vehicles traveling in mainline HOV lanes, no combination of recorded views currently provides enough information to support prosecution for occupancy violators. Even so, videotape surveillance of HOV lanes can provide useful information for a variety of other purposes. These include: 1. Support for on-line enforcement. In cases where there are no refuge areas adjacent to mainline HOV lanes, videotape surveillance provides a means of alerting officers stationed downstream from the cameras to the presence of oncoming violators. 2. Support for remote ticketing . Although videotape by itself does not appear to be accurate enough to provide a basis for citations, the combination of videotape and an observing officer could conceivably provide the accuracy needed for a system of mailed warnings and citations. If a system of mailed warnings or citations can be installed, the officer would not have to pursue violators, and a videotape record of driver, occupancy, and license plate would be available for court hearings. Such a system would be more cost-effective than the current system of freeway pursuit and roadside citing, and will reduce the congestion caused by rubbernecking. 3. Performance Monitoring. There are several applications in which videotape surveillance appears to provide a marked improvement over current practice. These include: (a) Freeway monitoring to document vehicle type and occupancy over time; ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ... The cost of videotaping HOV lane activity is more than double the cost of monitoring operations manually. However, videotape provides more accurate records, a consistent data base, and a permanent, verifiable record of traffic activity. It also provides information on the vehicle mix, traffic speed, and the license plates of carpoolers and suspected violators. 1.3.4 Public Reaction In a state in which radar cannot legally be used to enforce speed laws on state freeways, videotape surveillance of HOV lanes has significant legislative and public relations implications. These implications are beyond the scope of the current study. However, two pieces of information related to the current study may shed some light on the potential reactions of the public and the media to the possibility of videotape surveillance. .... Press Coverage. The field tests undertaken during the current study attracted the attention of the Los Angeles media and resulted in a limited amount of press coverage. Articles in the Los Angeles Times and Ontario Daily Report/Progress Bulletin were both balanced and informative. To the extent that these stories can be viewed as an indication of press and public reaction to the use of videotape in HOV lane enforcement, there was no suggestion that CALTRANS and the CHP would be exposed to a massive public outcry if videotape proves to be technologically and legally feasible as an enforcement tool. Furthermore, it can be assumed that the articles themselves made potential HOV lane violators in the Los Angeles area more cautious. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ... Video cameras operating in conjunction with officer observation may provide sufficient accuracy to support mail-out citations for HOV lane occupancy violations. An officer stationed downstream from the video cameras is in a position to verify the occupancy of vehicles which appear suspect to observers monitoring camera output. ... Moreover, the presence of an observing officer may remove some of the "Big Brother is watching" stigma from the use of videotape.

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RE: Fun with M$
by Andy Brown 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 15 August 1996 06:16, Bill Stewart[SMTP:stewarts@ix.netcom.com] wrote: > >Microsoft has chosen what Sun should have: leave the security to the user, > >don't take it away from everyone. Java has been severely crippled by the > > User? What user? The poor unsuspecting fool who hits the web page? > The kind friendly person who writes web pages that turn off Win95? > Executing signed code from web pages is semi-ok, if the default is to > trust no one and make the user explicitly grant permission to code authors. > Executing anything that comes down the wire is foolish, and writing > software to do so is rabidly negligent. The default (at least on beta-2 of ie) is to not trust anyone unless you explicity say so. If the user then decides to execute "k3wl kontro1" from phreak.net then that's their problem. Does anyone know what the legal implications of signed code are? That is, if Company A signs their Active X control and it's later found to corrupt users data, does the signature (which is supposed to make the user trust the control as safe), open up the company to litigation for damages?

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Re: Anguilla - A DataHaven?
by Remo Pini 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Thu Aug 15 12:42:40 1996 > I'm sure this has come up before, but what would prevent a server > being located on a buoy or something at sea outside territorial > limits (or when satellites become cheaper, on a satellite itself) > offering such services? Space: How often does your system crash? (Imagine sending a shuttle up there to troubleshoot the server) Sea: If your server swims in the ocean I could think of several drawbacks: - - per satellite only: costs - - must be very robust (salt water, shocks) - - must be powered by battery (Hey Jeff, have you ordered the 2000 Alkaline batteries yet, I think it's about time to change them on the server) - - everybody can go and get it (after all, no jurisdiction also means no protection - I believe that everybody can claim stuff floating in international waters, he just has to get it). But I like the idea anyway. But then again, why don't you just buy an island and get the country to grant you jurisdictional power over it? (sounds a lot cheaper than a satellite) - ------< fate favors the prepared mind >------ Remo Pini rp(a)rpini.com PGP: http://www.rpini.com/crypto/crypto.html - ----< words are what reality is made of >---- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMhL/IxFhy5sz+bTpAQE7zggAuCJo0i0X49nmLWtlQ2ZgKcapn80F0z8T +LJ/5SIjcbfvAZOZHKJVRwjh2GmQjaro4AskgBY4UHg2BTumUlsOiLwXM6hvoCx+ mdd2znkiiWfFarD067Vvur7KTSD87XZWMXR9I/8f1ONzWRdASE/kLQ/azCEgne1P GO/u0T0kKWWORSVgLc638U9raxJTPmn0Q6vEwvgVU4ARFGAEIPsFN3p8TfbIBAQ5 SqQbzNShqYzHrLgSDiarH2OyHA6o3hghwK1jUs2zHe2bAxvdjzMc3BaodWOi1tlT DJSq79cTrYItzCK+nn0INtaIeOQy2XwPFEA+1FglIScyxtiPcV0AYQ== =Xwjf -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: National Socio-Economic Security Need for Encryption Technology
by Bart Croughs 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sandy Santford wrote: >Bart Croughs wrote: >> If you don't know the answer, there's nothing to be ashamed of. It is just this sort of unnecessary condescending snottiness that create the clear impression that Bart is an asshole. Perhaps he is a fine chap and this is just his style, but I find it very offensive an counter-productive in this discussion. S a n d y< To prove that I'm behaving badly you quote me out of context. My statement 'If you don't know the answer, there's nothing to be ashamed of', was immediately followed by the statement 'I don't know the answer either'. In this context, my statement wasn't that snotty. After all, I made clear that in this respect I wasn't any better than you. So I think you are overreacting a bit. Second, I didn't complain about the tone of your previous posts when you talked about me 'fretting' about the dropping wages of American workers, or when you wrote 'yada, yada, yada' in response to one of my posts. I don't even complain when you call me an asshole (except that maybe next time you start calling names you could be a bit more imaginative...) It's not that important. I guess I just get subconsciously a little irritated, and that's the reason I'm maybe a little less polite when I answer your posts than you would like me to be. So if you want me to behave nicer when I answer your posts, the best way to achieve this would be to start behaving nicer yourself. Bart Croughs

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Re: Fw: Re: Free Pronto Secure Offer
by Charley Sparks 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- To: geoff(a)commtouch.co.il, cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Thu Aug 15 07:45:59 1996 Nicely Put !! I. for one, love it... warts ( for now ) and all ! To: unicorn(a)schloss.li, cypherpunks(a)toad.com Date: Thu Aug 15 10:53:53 1996 On 14 Aug unicorn wrote: > "Do all the work I should be doing or have done in the first place > discover the critical flaws in my new-keen-o-ka-jive-o crypto system > and I will give you a free copy of a critically flawed crypto system > (a $99.00 value) ABSOLUTELY FREE. Wait, don't order yet. Included > you also get to> actually whitewash my fence and then mow my lawn. > All at NO COST to you." Unicorn, please try to take a minute to think before hitting that send key. You infer that a product is critically flawed without even trying it ? There are quite a few members of this list who are using Pronto Secure and will testify to the contrary. See http://www.commtouch.com/testers.htm for a list of people who take the trouble to try out a product before venturing an opinion. Agreed that feedback from external testers is a good deal for developers. It is also not a bad deal for evaluators, they get a free copy of a product which in the case of Pronto Secure many find useful (as witnessed by x-mailer headers on c'punk traffic). Testers also get an opportunity to contribute neat feature ideas which helps propagate secure messaging to the masses. Unicorn, you are invited to whitewash my fence :) - --------------------------------------------------------------- Geoff Klein, Pronto Secure Product Manager; www.commtouch.com My PGP public Key 1814AD45 can be obtained by sending a message to geoff(a)commtouch.co.il with "Get PGP Key" as the subject. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCXAwUBMhMN+eJ+JZd/Y4yVAQFQ1wQKA4D7OyVKQDyM93653ffUgG3iRUtMkYc6 ozcSRGz1RHlH2HdUWPuM7M9YGvF8hhcccPwWUA1G1NuJypeEsCwKKHuaEiTIpRVk ZRAb1nA2AP/dLZ2NQTBxDr7JQMZ4zfSfX376Ejk7Ep1oR2XAr/fFP/QYHzpHsvme FYPEzNtejjDQSg== =/O/z -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: National Socio-Economic Security Need for Encryption Technology
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 9:39 PM 8/15/96, Bart Croughs wrote: > > If the situation is so clear, why can't you give the proof I'm asking for? > Several people have given explanations of why your question is both too simplistic and too tied to subjective definitions of "good for the economy." You ignore these points and keep repeating your protectionist mantra. You seem to have a one-track mind, suggesting you are probaby a rabid Objectivist. OK, so I will give you an Objectivist proof: A is A. Not-A is not Not-Not-A. A is real, Not-A is not real. Reality is good, non-reality is not good. Man exists in reality. Therefore Man is good. Existence is not optional. Non-existence is nothingness. Nothingness is darkness. The opposite of darkness is light. Fire produces light, therefore fire is good. Fire is the embodiment of good. Smoking is the embodiment of fire. Therefore, smoking is good. Non-smoking is bad.... What was the question again? --Tim May (P.S. Since Bart seems to have only one thing on his mind, and since our list members seem unable to persuade him about anything, I suspect this list is not the list for Bart. May he find the list he seeks.) Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: GOP security
by Brian D Williams 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> Authorities in Chicago, where the Democrats will meet the last >week of August, are taking similar precautions. Metal detectors, >bomb-sniffing dogs and surveillance cameras will be in force, >along with thousands of police. Coast Guard cutters will patrol >Lake Michigan. Chicago police are sealing an eight-block area >around the United Center sports arena, the main convention site, >to all unauthorized cars, trucks and pedestrians. As the 20th >century nears an end, wary, pervasive security is as much a part >of the convention scene as Old Glory and silly hats. San Diego has >been preparing convention security for more than a year. Then a >bomber on the other side of the country suddenly made everyone >wonder if the next big public event could be free of mayhem and >terror. Taxicabs will have unrestricted access of course and are therefore the vector of choice. I heard an interesting ahem, "rumor" related to security through obscurity- only 2/5 of a major armored car companys trucks are actually armored/bullet resistant glass, the other three are just look-alikes...... saving money.....tsk,tsk. Brian "Zazen? Well it beats sitting around on your ass all day doing nothing."

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Re: Schlafly on crypto
by Marc J. Wohler 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:47 PM 8/14/96 -0700, SANDY SANDFORT wrote: >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > in this battle, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." I appreciate Sandy's enlightened and consistent position. And I will stand with anyone who supports free speech and privacy. Forgive my week character however, if I am forced to hold my nose while I stand with her on this issue. She is the type of free speach advocate who supports the freedom of those who agree with *her*. She is no friend of *mine*

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Re: National Socio-Economic Security Need for Encryption Technology
by Bart Croughs 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Perry Metzger wrote: >No one claimed that you can't increase productivity and income on average under some circumstances by increased capital investment. What was being made fun of was the simplistic misunderstanding of what the underlying mechanisms are. Prices, including the price of labor, are set purely by the marketplace.Under some circumstances, incomes will be determined by investment levels made by employers. Under others, they will not. The important feature is the market principle, not the capital investment. The point of my "green pylons" posting was to note that it is the market direction of the investment and not the investment that is important.< If you mean to say that in a society where the government directs the 'investments' (confiscates the wealth of its citizens and spends it for its own purposes), wages could be lower than in a society where there is less capital accumulated but where private parties direct the investments, then you are right. But Austrian economists like Murray Rothbard, Hans Hermann Hoppe, etc. don't consider government expenditures to be *investments* of capital; they consider all government expenditures to be *consumption*. As an Austrian, you should know this. To quote Murray Rothbard about resource-using expenditures by the government ('Power and market', p. 173, 2nd ed.): "all of this expenditure must be considered *consumption*. Investment occurs where producers' goods are bought by entrepreneurs, not at all for their own use or satisfaction, but merely to reshape and resell them to others - ultimately to the consumers. But government redirects the resources of society to its ends, chosen by it and backed by the use of force. Hence, these purchases must be considered consumption expenditures, whatever their intention or physical result. They are a particular wasteful form of 'consumption', however, since they are generally *not* regarded as consumption expenditures by government officials" Etc. By the way, Jean-Baptiste Say, the French economist, already had the same view a long time ago. >Impediments to trade create wastes of capital just as surely as burning cash in the marketplace does. If you were really an Austrian, and not a confused person, you would know that all the Austrians and Chicago School people are for completely free trade, something you don't seem to get in your expositions on capital flows. Perry< You're setting up a straw man again. As I said several times before, I *am* for completely free trade. Even if the investment of American capital in foreign countries would lead to a lower standard of living for workers in the US, I still would support completely free trade, simply because I support the non-aggression principle. But, as I also said before, I don't believe that investment of American capital abroad would lead to a lower standard of living for American workers (it would lead to relatively lower wages, but I think the advantages of investing abroad would compensate for this). I just don't know how to *prove* this belief. I like to have proof for my beliefs, if only to be able to rebut socialist arguments. That's why I asked my question: how can you prove that the investment of American capital abroad would not hurt workers in the US? Bart Croughs

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