December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: [Off-Topic] "Curfews"
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:03 AM 6/9/96 +0000, Jean-Francois Avon wrote: >On 8 Jun 96 at 12:40, jim bell wrote: >> As you can see, this is one of the big difficulties that people can >> have understanding AP: Since it changes just about everything about >> how a society works, you can't analyze it "easily" using your >> built-up knowledge of societies. > >Actually, it makes one realize that society and the "collective" is >nothing, that the basic building block is the individual. If you >analyse the motivation of the individual, AP is not difficult to >understand. It is, however, hard to separate out all the familiar assumptions we make about the world based on the current way of doing things. > >> As I've said so many times before, AP is like a political Rorschach >> test: Your reaction to it is strongly related to your political >> philosophy. That's part of the magic. > >Please stay out of magic. The actual politician are enough into it. Well, I was speaking hyperbolically. (hyperbole.) Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Minority vs. majority
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:40 PM 6/8/96 EDT, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >ichudov(a)algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) writes: >> You haven't seen _real_ corrupt officials. :) > >Jim - could corrupt gov't official hide behind anonymity too? >E.g., a particularly obnoxious gov't regulation being issued from >behind anon remailer? Regulation issued? Sure. Regulation _enforced_? Far more difficult! Maybe even impossible, when considered over the entire population. I've been considering this for a long time, and I came to the conclusion that you really can't enforce regulations dictated by a small fraction of the population onto the large majority. Enforcing a regulation costs effort. (money? time? people?) People are not going to put in this kind of effort unless they feel strongly about an issue. It would be possible for a large majority to enforce a standard of behavior on a tiny minority ("rules" against theft and other common crime) but this will work only if the average individual is willing to donate money to see those general rules enforced. Over time, few people will donate money to see victimless crimes (drugs, gambling, prostituion) enforced, for instance. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Thank you for the Archives 100 messages
by qut＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> This isn't true. I don't believe in killfiles. Being on my twit list simply > means that you're entitled to a brief acknowledgement of every message you How polite, like a Courtesy_Copy. Thanks! > send me. Skippy was added after he sent me the 3MB results from the > rec.music.white-power vote as a rather limp mailbombing attempt (free clue: > it takes a lot more than that to make a dent in our bandwidth or disk > space); see http://www.stanford.edu/~llurch/potw2/rec.music.white-powder for > that email. Liar. Since they got rid of the old Bell, Stanford is as good as Netcom in their top level functions, I retreived the above page in a few seconds, it's the terminals and stuff which cause the problems. You, for instance, only use Micro$oft, so you lose out on the use of Stanford's T3's, which I use all the time whenever I'm logged in to Netcom. As if there's anybody stupid enough to use Micro$oft for networking, much less Dial-ups! > > somebody has placed a global cancel bot on I was wrong, I was just Dicked a few forge-cancels. He got angry of course, when I added misc.test, which means he can't continue to forge-cancel without quickly alerting me. > > me. I'm gonna have plenty of fun figuring > > this out. Kwow any good sniffers? > > The one that used to be running on darth.stanford.edu was pretty good. > Since February 22nd, I've working on the assumption that everything I do > unencrypted is public. I would revoke my PGP key, but I never used it much > for receiving mail anyway, and I'm not sure that it was found. You could explain to us what you are talking about, but that would threaten your B1!?3 status. > > I agree the list should be public usenet: > > A mail gate-way to a usenet group that > > ALSO permits unmoderated posts. This > > would be a nice way to combine a strict > > moderated mail-list, with a standard > > netnews group. Great idea. For stormfront. BTW, can you forge-request another archives for me? I saw a couple of letters before losing the rest. I'm trying to work novell dos with linux and making a general mess of things. Picked up an unwrapped copy for $40, is that a good deal? > Gee, what a great idea! Why hasn't anyone thought of that? hks.net, for > example. Unfortunately, there are too many copyright terrorists here. Never noticed it. > There's a tradeoff between freedom and visibility. As astute readers are > aware, hks.net had to take down the archives after WSJ made a threat that > was a little too credible. Never noticed it. You folks are just so damned paranoid. The government's not out to get you, just help you. > -rich > > -- Kill Your Television

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Re: your mail
by qut＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, harman.david wrote: > > > This sat's no good fo' me. > > Is Jul 13 OK? > > I've got the ResNet conference that week, and I'll probably need to recover. > It might be fun to meet you at some Tuesday night boink. I'll buy you a > beer. I've got gay friends, but I don't boink them. And, I used to be a nice guy, but I quit drugs. BTW, what does it cost to get a dedicated T3? Would it cost more than a vacation? > > Again, I'm only interested in the implementation, > > the ongoing discussion about legal liability, > > is fairly bogus, I, Black Unicorn, and many others, > > have already declared we would go face to face > > with the law. > > To what was this a reference? Crypto-Anonyminity vs. the law and Co$. "In the national socialist paradise, there is no law" -- Kill Your Television

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No Subject
by winn＠Infowar.Com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Class III InfoWar Part 2 Report from Europe FEEL FREE TO DISTRIBUTE WIDELY I am ostensibly on vacation with my wife and two children ages 11 & 5 : Here we are in Venice, Italy but I can't ignore what seems to be going on in England. American media does not appear to be following it. So here 's what is happening. Headline of June 9, 1996 Sunday Times in London reads: "Secret Inquiry into Cyber Terror." This is a follow-up of last Sundays story about alleged extortion attacks against British financial institutions using Trojan Horses and /or HERF Guns. According to today's article, the British government is holding secret investigations into the "attacks" for more than two years involving the Dept. of Trade and Industry (DTI), government communications headquarters (GCHQ), the Brits NSA, The Defence Research Agency (DRA), and the Bank of England. On June 8, the DTI issued a public statement which included : "We are very interested in the allegations of extortion directed at City of London institutions which were brought to our attention in 1994. We responded then by involving many government organizations ... so far we have not been presented with any hard evidence from victims. We would urge those threatened to come forward." DTI Director of Technical Affairs, David Hendon wrote a letter in May 1995 saying they took the extortion issue "Extremely seriously." The Times' reporter's say they have seen some of the evidence that was submitted to DTI and GCHQ which includes a chart on 46 of the attacks. According to the article DRA Senior Director, Professor David Parks, his agency is " especially interested in the "weaponry" deployed by the cyber terrorists." The Tmes continued : "The agency (DRA) believes high intensity radio frequency "HIRF" guns may have been used to black out trading positions in City finance houses. The weapon disables a computer by firing elctromagnetic radiation at it and is a "Black Programme" at the Defence Ministry, one of the highest security classification levels." In Dec. Of 1995, the DRA and Parks approached a company who specializes in information warfare and asked them to "arrange a demonstration of a portable HIRF weapon in Germany." The article further states that details on the HIRF systems and their use in the City of London have been compiled by a British computer magazine and are being passed onto government officials. ***** I have spoken to more than fifty media in the last week about this story: The comments range from "suspicious" of the British reports, "sounds psy -fi", "alarming", "scary" and the like. Even though I am on vacation (Ha!) I called a few of my expert friends for a sanity check and here is what we have to say. * The alleged software attacks mentioned in last weeks article are more likely the weapon than HERF/HIRF attacks that todays' article focuses on. * "Given the kind of systems they use and their connectivity, I can figure a hundred ways to do what the article say" one of my experts stated. * As for the HERF/HIRF we have worked out a number of models for a number for the attacks scenarios mentioned, but we have a targeting problem. A free-space (air) based attacked would create a wide dispersion pattern and likely have effected other organizations not just those specifically under attack. * A ground plane attack might cause the alleged results but requires more physical access to the facility. A few thoughts of the potential motivations: * Were the alleged attacks meant as a malicious Denial of Service (DNS) attack or as a profit scheme? * Were trading volumes and the stock prices of the alleged victims effected during the times in question? * Was internal profit taking an ulterior motive ? * I have to keep in mind if we give these stories credence, that over 50% of computer crimes involve insiders. According to my British friends, the Sunday Times is preparing even more on this story which will appear next Sunday - when I will be in London to get it back to you within minutes. So, the kids are fine. "Thanks for asking." My life is almost relaxed, and we are now headed into the Alps for a leisurely 8 hr drive and will spend the night at the Jungfrau. "Damn, it's raining. It will have to be beer and sauerkraut." In the meantime, contact betty(a)infowar.com at Interpact for comments and interviews. Back at your later! Winn Schwartau Peace Winn Winn Schwartau - Interpact, Inc. Information Warfare and InfoSec V: 813.393.6600 / F: 813.393.6361 Winn(a)InfoWar.Com

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Re: [NOISE] Re: RFD: Time to kick some anti-scientologist ass?
by Rich Burroughs 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 09:34 AM 6/9/96 EDT, LD wrote: >Rich Burroughs <richieb(a)teleport.com> writes: >> I don't know of any "Anti-Scientologists" who are forging cancels. > >Check out the Lasarus reports on alt.religion.scientology -- 5000 lines, >6000 lines, 7000 lines... Gee, those poor CoS posters you mention must be pretty busy to generate that many messages (which were then canceled). Homer adjusted Lazarus, and the last I knew the reports didn't have enough info for anyone to tell who the sender of the cancel was. Here's an example from back on the 5th: - - ---------------------------------------------------------- Mon Jun 3 19:45:33 EDT 1996 Lazarus V2.3 lightlink.com/var/spool/news/control/1501139 Article: 176082 From: info(a)ars.com (ARS FAQ) Date: 1 Jun 1996 17:34:29 GMT Subject: Bryan Wilson - Diversity Among Religions: A Modern Example. Message-ID: <4opuv5$6s0(a)mordred.cc.jyu.fi> Control: cancel <4opuv5$6s0(a)mordred.cc.jyu.fi> - - ---------------------------------------------------------- Homer condensed them to one post, as they were just exacerbating the spam clutter. I wish he'd have left more info in them. To be honest, I haven't paid that much attention to them in the last few days, since it's impossible to tell from them who issued the cancel. If you know who is forging cancels you might want to share with me, but I honestly don't. The only people I am aware of who have been canceling have been JEM and some of the ISPs involved. Vague accusations against "Anti-Scientologists" don't really tell me much. >> really doubt anyone would have checked with Dimitri first, though :) > >The forged cancels started a short time after one prominent anti-scentologist >flamer e-mailed me and asked for a copy of my cancelbot. (The first time I've >seen him being quasi-polite! :-) The cancels look like they came from my 'bot, >and are directed at _anything posted by certain Co$ supporters. I haven't seen any of the actual cancels, and I wouldn't know how to identify them as being from your bot. Those "certain Co$ supporters" are all probably one person who's telnetting to open NNTP ports and forging thousands of messages a day. The posts are all obviously produced by a script (pulling info mainly from the CoS book _What is Scientology_), and they are not anything even in the neighborhood of an honest attempt at communication. It's Net abuse, and I think you must be trolling if you don't see that. Should have known you'd go where the action is :) >I don't care about the bizarre religion views of the present or former cult >members, but forging cancels makes you as much of a slime as Co$. The messages that are being canceled are forgeries. They are a result of an abuse of service. That isn't at all the same as CoS canceling due to content. Those poor "certain Scientologists" you mentioned have produced over 12,000 forged messages, which are actually only a small number of articles that are being continually reposted. Most must be way over the BI. I'm not crying a river for them. >I note that you chose to ignore the cypherpunks-relevant portion of my question >- that the anti-scientologists have been abusing the cypherpunks remailers. Wow. Good thing that there was a relevant portion, huh. :) Sorry I missed it. I have some mixed feelings about the CoS materials that were posted through the remailers. I'm sorry that Hacktic was shut down, but I don't think that was the intent of the people who posted those materials. They were blowing the whistle on a criminal organization. I can't honestly say whether I think their actions were "right" or not. In any case, the actions you've described were committed by a handful of people. There are hundreds of Anti-Scientologists who post to a.r.s., and many more who lurk. Probably less than 5 have done wholesale posting of copyrighted materials, (beyond what would be considered "fair use") and most of them didn't even use remailers. Scamizdat being the big exception. I'm assuming that your anti-"Anti-Scientologist" screed is just an attempt to get people riled up. Having fun? Rich -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMbsypoT0GKfZRA/9AQF62wP/TUdUKXwAgO7irnE08P5mSP1K+MNP0Ukb ZqZPCKmWxrtHql/a3E7dYquQ0fp9fCe4a+d/TyvJQFAc3/LS/6/Qb6nkOB0HqSP5 +9URNIJPgBVRigxbL0m9ZJS6zzw9+ewRi6mu1wxaaHlPE/QDjZZnfKJi8bjcMUCk Ap7kN+sw8GQ= =jIEl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ______________________________________________________________________ Rich Burroughs richieb(a)teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~richieb See my Blue Ribbon Page at http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/blueribbon New EF zine "cause for alarm" - http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/cause

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No Subject
by winn＠Infowar.Com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Class III InfoWar Part 2 Report from Europe FEEL FREE TO DISTRIBUTE WIDELY I am ostensibly on vacation with my wife and two children ages 11 & 5 : Here we are in Venice, Italy but I can't ignore what seems to be going on in England. American media does not appear to be following it. So here 's what is happening. Headline of June 9, 1996 Sunday Times in London reads: "Secret Inquiry into Cyber Terror." This is a follow-up of last Sundays story about alleged extortion attacks against British financial institutions using Trojan Horses and /or HERF Guns. According to today's article, the British government is holding secret investigations into the "attacks" for more than two years involving the Dept. of Trade and Industry (DTI), government communications headquarters (GCHQ), the Brits NSA, The Defence Research Agency (DRA), and the Bank of England. On June 8, the DTI issued a public statement which included : "We are very interested in the allegations of extortion directed at City of London institutions which were brought to our attention in 1994. We responded then by involving many government organizations ... so far we have not been presented with any hard evidence from victims. We would urge those threatened to come forward." DTI Director of Technical Affairs, David Hendon wrote a letter in May 1995 saying they took the extortion issue "Extremely seriously." The Times' reporter's say they have seen some of the evidence that was submitted to DTI and GCHQ which includes a chart on 46 of the attacks. According to the article DRA Senior Director, Professor David Parks, his agency is " especially interested in the "weaponry" deployed by the cyber terrorists." The Tmes continued : "The agency (DRA) believes high intensity radio frequency "HIRF" guns may have been used to black out trading positions in City finance houses. The weapon disables a computer by firing elctromagnetic radiation at it and is a "Black Programme" at the Defence Ministry, one of the highest security classification levels." In Dec. Of 1995, the DRA and Parks approached a company who specializes in information warfare and asked them to "arrange a demonstration of a portable HIRF weapon in Germany." The article further states that details on the HIRF systems and their use in the City of London have been compiled by a British computer magazine and are being passed onto government officials. ***** I have spoken to more than fifty media in the last week about this story: The comments range from "suspicious" of the British reports, "sounds psy -fi", "alarming", "scary" and the like. Even though I am on vacation (Ha!) I called a few of my expert friends for a sanity check and here is what we have to say. * The alleged software attacks mentioned in last weeks article are more likely the weapon than HERF/HIRF attacks that todays' article focuses on. * "Given the kind of systems they use and their connectivity, I can figure a hundred ways to do what the article say" one of my experts stated. * As for the HERF/HIRF we have worked out a number of models for a number for the attacks scenarios mentioned, but we have a targeting problem. A free-space (air) based attacked would create a wide dispersion pattern and likely have effected other organizations not just those specifically under attack. * A ground plane attack might cause the alleged results but requires more physical access to the facility. A few thoughts of the potential motivations: * Were the alleged attacks meant as a malicious Denial of Service (DNS) attack or as a profit scheme? * Were trading volumes and the stock prices of the alleged victims effected during the times in question? * Was internal profit taking an ulterior motive ? * I have to keep in mind if we give these stories credence, that over 50% of computer crimes involve insiders. According to my British friends, the Sunday Times is preparing even more on this story which will appear next Sunday - when I will be in London to get it back to you within minutes. So, the kids are fine. "Thanks for asking." My life is almost relaxed, and we are now headed into the Alps for a leisurely 8 hr drive and will spend the night at the Jungfrau. "Damn, it's raining. It will have to be beer and sauerkraut." In the meantime, contact betty(a)infowar.com at Interpact for comments and interviews. Back at your later! Winn Schwartau Peace Winn Winn Schwartau - Interpact, Inc. Information Warfare and InfoSec V: 813.393.6600 / F: 813.393.6361 Winn(a)InfoWar.Com

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1000 Shares
by karri19＠idt.liberty.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: Whalepunks, Marginpunks, Gunpunks, Clintonpunks, and Politics
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:09 PM 6/8/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: >First, a Smith and Wesson is not what the tots should be carrying. An MP-5K >would fit nicely in their bookpacks (especially now that all yuppie kids >carry de rigeur designer backpacks, though mostly for designer water). More >firepower. >My point of view is that while schools should be free of guns, adult >citizens should probably have access to guns. There are, sadly, nutty >people who will use nearly any available weapon to commit mayhem and mass >murder. Rifles, shotguns, axes, knives... And to bring things back somewhat to cypherpunk (or at least technopunk)issues, weapons control (like other forms of regulation) is defeated by technology. Last week's Economist had an article on the first commercially available 3D "printers" or desktop fabrication stations. A bit hard to control weapons when one can just print off a few. In addition other technical advances are bound to put a host of weapons in everyone's hands. You can't disarm a technically advanced population. Too many tools can be adapted to kill. This being the case, you should allow your society to adapt to this reality by getting people used to the concept of self defense, small group defense, and behaving oneself in public. >Remember, "Guns don't kill people, postal workers do." In fact, in 1995 the term to go "postal" entered the vocabulary. As in the sentence "LD went postal and wiped out the whole ballet class." Another Cypherpunks angle lies in the fact that fans of "going postal" have also noted that 14 is a Schelling point for the number of victims of one of these massacres. I wonder why that is? Magazine size? >In general, I think Phill raises some good points about the efficiency of >free markets. However, I doubt that Cypherpunks is the proper forum for >debating economic theory, for various reasons. I lean strongly toward the >free market side, inasmuch as I think most non-free market economies are >actually just cases where the government controls the _single_ corporation >they let run an industry, and thus one gets a worse situation that with the >grossest excesses of capitalism. I always ask the commies how they can guarantee that political complications won't interfere with the perfect implementations of their no doubt superior five year plans. I can guarantee that the commissar's brother-in-law will go bankrupt (if he deserves to) under capitalism. How can they guarantee that under socialism? >However, the reason many of us don't jump in and write defenses of free >markets here (and I would not have except to make my transhumanist joke--so >sue me) is that this list is not "Libernet" nor any of the similar >political discussion lists. Also it's not necessary since markets can take care of themselves these days. "History is on our side." "We will bury you." "The Multinational unites the human race." "Di-electrical materialism dooms both the ancien regime and state capitalism." etc. DCF "A free market is what you get when people are free."

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Re: US: Domestic Encryption Protected by US Constitution?
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:36 PM 6/8/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: >I don't think we want crypto controlled by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, >and Firearms, do we? That'd be the BATFC. To be called "bat fuck" in the popular press (but not on the post-CDA Net). DCF "If you have a job opening in a cool climate for an experienced technical author with a solid understanding of cryptography, write to me."

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