December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Important Financial Information...
by 68864320＠canma.dyn.ml.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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(fwd) Statement on Merchants - Mark Twain Banks
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I knew it! There *is* an echo in here... ;-). Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text X-Sender: merchant(a)172.16.1.10 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 14:16:17 -0500 To: ecash(a)digicash.com From: Ecash Merchants <merchants(a)marktwain.com> Subject: Statement on Merchants - Mark Twain Banks Sender: owner-ecash(a)digicash.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Ecash - Its Your Money! Mark Twain Bank both supports and promotes free speech. Our adoption of the Ecash secure payment system written by DigiCash is one of the most important statements we think we can make about our belief in privacy. We believe that all sites should have the ability to publish or promote as they choose, and to do business with whom they choose. Mark Twain is a public company regulated by multiple governmental entities. In the ordinary course of business, the company chooses with whom it does business every day. The company has no obligation to ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ conduct business with anyone it deems to be inappropriate. The ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ;-). company will decline to accept any web site that sells graphics or items that would, in the sole and conservative judgement of the Bank, be offensive to the primary constituents of the Bank and other online vendors. Defining what is acceptable is an ongoing process of the Bank's Oversight Review Committee. Anyone with questions about specific acceptability should contact the committee by email. At this time the regulatory framework for Ecash and other online payment mechanisms is not established. We expect that we will be required to present the case for this new payment mechanism before legislative and regulatory bodies. This means that the ultimate success of Ecash will depend, in part, on our ability to provide regulatory bodies with a rational argument why current restrictive regulations should be broadened. If opposing parties are able to divert the discussion away from these essential elements into an argument about controversial products that may be available, then the goal of universal acceptance may not be met. As banks from around the world adopt Ecash, customers will be able to use their Mark Twain issued Ecash to make purchases globally without restriction. Mark Twain believes that all Ecash issuing banks should be inter-operable, and that such purchase transactions are private matters of the individuals utilizing Ecash. One could certainly imagine that merchants not acceptable to Mark Twain could be acceptable elsewhere. Thank you for your patience, and your comments. Mark Twain Bank merchants(a)marktwain.com www.marktwain.com "Ecash" is a trademark of DigiCash bv "Mark Twain Banks" is a trademark of Mark Twain Bancshares, Inc. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMX59ttsWVQQCavb7AQGnwQP+PedLsJjUsdiZ+XW8qoyTmWjBtFGVBnqE sOkVm9ZFPK/Sgny13iYJdjyjpNe/XgFaQO8hSfV1aZyBln4U3pFhH9aIqJzAyFmU Fo9iyLXf3CowWRYieI0OXzG5xYk+nQPKLJLeCdwebxit1bS7m/5iYuASyF3DQs3x fs7X94LQHeg= =0vvc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "If they could 'just pass a few more laws', we would all be criminals." --Vinnie Moscaritolo The e$ Home Page: http://thumper.vmeng.com/pub/rah/

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Re: Rabbi Hier Testimony
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To see today's WaPo about "The Turner Diaries" publishing controversy that Declan cites: TUM_ult For William Pierce, "Diaries" author, by NYT, June, 1995: TUR_ner

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Re: [NOISE] [Wager: Seeming Resolution]
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:57 AM 4/24/96 -0400, Declan B. McCullagh wrote: >Excerpts from internet.cypherpunks: 23-Apr-96 [Wager: Seeming >Resolution] by Black Unicorn(a)schloss.li >> The only issue is how you wish to modify that claim for the purposes of >> the wager so as to bring it within a semblence of accuracy. >> >> Absent further interest on your part, I consider the matter closed and >> your claim retracted. > >I confess I had a good laugh at Jim Bell's expense. His attempt at >weaseling was sadly uninspired, and Black Unicorn was quite right to >move in for the kill. > What "kill"? Unicorn claimed a few days ago that he THOUGHT that his challenge would never be accepted, ostensibly because of haggling by me. I interpret this as unwillingness to bargain in good faith (sandbagging), which is reasonable given Unicorn's track record. Given this thinly-veiled warning of dishonesty, it is only realistic that I would not want to accept his challenge. Notice that he hasn't presented what he would claim to be the scope of the conditions, which suggests that he's going to try to spring them on me later. I, for one, am not going to accept the legal equivalent of a witch-doctor's example, and I don't think anyone else here would find that to be acceptable either. Further, all this is merely an attempt to distract from the issue that I raised, one that Unicorn hasn't dared to talk about yet: I claimed that of the examples quoted in that SC decision, which were cited as exceptions to 5th amendment protections in the US, all of them represent examples which were only considered technologically useful in the last 100 years, the oldest being fingerprinting. Given this, it is easy to conclude that there is no realistic basis for an interpretation that they are genuinely exceptions to 5th amendment protections, and were allowed simply because they were useful. Isn't it interesting how Unicorn always seems to dodge the analysis and replace it with precedent? Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Golden Key Campaign
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:53 PM 4/23/96, Hal wrote: >effort. Note that RSA's logo is a key, and we see the RSA key at the >bottom of our Netscape screens all the time. I don't remember if it's >golden. ... >I have not actually seen the new logo because I don't have a graphical >browser here, but I hope it is not too similar to RSA's key. I hate to ... The "Golden Key" appears to be a photograph of an old-style "skeleton key" (hope this is not symbolic of what happens to users...). The key sits on top of an envelope in the image I saw. The "RSA Key(s)" is/are modern keys, a la Schlage or similar lock keys. They normally are shown in a kind of gold/yellow/bronze, from memory of RSA literature and a Web page I just looked at to double-check. I don't know if the use of a key is to endorse RSADSI directly, or subliminally. But there are not a lot of symbols which are evocative. The "Cypherpunks rose" hasn't exactly become the new symbol of whatever it is we believe in, and other symbols are no better. I note that that the NSA also uses a key in its logo. (On the larger issue of the campaign itself....I'm not much of a joiner, and PR campaigns fatigue me. I'm with Whoopi Goldberg on the Blue Ribbons, the Red Ribbons, the Yellow Ribbons, the Green Ribbons, the Gold Key, the Silver Key, the Chartreuse Diskette, and the Maltese Falcon.) --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Meta: The Arguing about the Terms of the Wager Continues
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 3:14 AM 4/24/96, jim bell wrote: >As I recall from a message a day ago, you claimed that you saw no way that >we could come to any kind of agreement as to the terms and conditions. I'm >willing to accept your word on this prediction. And in another message, Black Unicorn wrote: >I note for the record that I never predicted that the terms and >conditions would be complex or unresolved, but that you would alter >the claim and the logistics of the wager to the point where you might >evade the consequences of loss. > >I note for the record that it was your post that originally supported its >accuracy with a call for wagering. > >I note for the record...... And so the back-and-forth continues...taking up even more list space arguing, waffling, finessing, rebutting, disputing, and on an on. Exactly as several of us have predicted. Give it a rest. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: The Iron Mountain Report
by minow＠apple.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Some years ago the federal government set up a special >[inaudible] group. For two-and-a-half years they met in secret at >Iron Mountain, New York. Their findings were called "Report from >Iron Mountain on the Possibility and Desirability of Peace." >Their document, by some of the leading thinkers, was suppressed. >Later, it was printed in a limited edition, with the *names* >removed. Some were shocked by what they read. > I've read the Report from Iron Mountain (I bought it about 20 years ago, and I believe that it's currently available in paperback). While it *could* be legitimate, I think it may be more approprately filed next to Johnathan Swift's Irish cookbook. Martin Minow minow(a)apple.com

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Re: Crypto Software Review Wanted
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:04 PM 4/24/96, Travis Hassloch x231 wrote: >There's a ton of only semi-organized stuff out there. >I would like structured info... more that just a filename, without having >to install it myself, etc... >Review of the packages would be real nice. Let's see. You'd like structured info, and reviews. How much are you offering? >CC me in the replies please, since I'm not on the list... Well, I make it a point _not_ to do this. Those wanting people on the CP list to generate stuff for them should at least be reading and contributing to the list. "Hey, like I'm not on the list, but, like, send me kewl stuff." > although I might get on coderpunks if the volume is small. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: 5th protect password?
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:59 PM 4/23/96 -0400, Black Unicorn wrote: >On Tue, 23 Apr 1996 jamesd(a)echeque.com wrote: > >> At 06:19 AM 4/23/96 -0700, Sandy Sandfort wrote: > >> > didn't Unicorn offer Mr. Bell a >> > wager on this issue? Isn't the ball in Mr. Bell's court to put >> > his money where his mouth is? >> >> Yeah: fifty thousand dollars. > >[...] > >> Now if Unicorn had proposed a bet for one hundred dollars, then >> I would sit up and take notice. A hundred dollars is real money. > >US$ 100.00 it is. Mr. Bell? As I recall from a message a day ago, you claimed that you saw no way that we could come to any kind of agreement as to the terms and conditions. I'm willing to accept your word on this prediction. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: [NOISE] Re: Nazis on the Net
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 02:20 PM 4/23/96 -0700, Rich Burroughs wrote: >On Tue, 23 Apr 1996, E. ALLEN SMITH wrote: >[snip] >> However, one reference in this report to Weaver's calling for a meeting >> to oppose the "Zionist Occupation Government" does provide an argument for >> calling him a racist of the anti-Semitic variety. On the other hand, the only >> person claiming this is the FBI's informant; the truth of his statements has >> been called into doubt. > >I'm sure it has been. That doesn't mean his report is untrue. Is the >standard of proof the same for both of these issues? We need proof to >establish that Weaver is a racist, but not to establish that the FBI >informant is lying? I see no contradiction, here. Weaver's credibility, at least to his telling the truth, is apparently unchallenged. The FBI, however, has been caught in numerous lies about Ruby Ridge, and the believability of its informants (at least, to the extent that the FBI itself can be trusted to relay their reports accurately) is highly in doubt. The government spent about $1.5 million to get a minor, first-time (alleged) criminal. There is no obvious or logical basis for such extreme interest, even in hindsight based on what we now know. An objective person analyzing this would have to conclude that the government's interest in Weaver was entirely different than what it was claimed to be, and if it was that important it is logical to conclude that fraud was not beyond their capability and motivation. Given the fact that the government actually faked evidence in the trial (photographs of shell casings), a fact that was brought out during trial, anything they say is not believable. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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