December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

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by Steve Dommett 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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Re: FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 06:01 PM 6/9/96 +0200, Anonymous wrote: > >Bryce wrote (whilst on his high horse): > >> Hm. I think the best we could hope for is along the lines of >> "The suspect subscribed to the 'Cypherpunks' discussion group on >> the Internet, but his violent views were rejected by the members >> of the group." > >Not every member of this list rejects his views. I for one do not >reject them outright, but will not defend his views publically for >fear of embarassing the corporation that I work for. Some day, the "embarrassment" may be among those who misunderstood an idea that is, by then, fully operational and was an improvement over the previous system. I seem to recall some funny poster titled something like "The five stages of a new idea" which starts out "It'll never work" and ends up, "I knew it would work all along!" >I do not >reject Jim Bell's violent views for the simple reason that violence >is often required to fight violence. In other words, the best you >can hope for is "... but his violent views were rejected by some >members of the group." I'd like to know what they mean by using the term "rejected." A rejection without an alternative is irresponsible. Assuming they agree that the status quo is unacceptable, and if they believe that change is possible, then what is their solution? Moreover, what is the real meaning of the word "rejected" in this context? You can't "reject" gravity, or a hurricane, or eventual death. >> It is important that the reporter manages to _not_ use the word >> "member" to indicate that Bell is a "member" of Cypherpunks. > >He *is* a member. And why shouldn't he be? Are you suggesting that >this group become moderated? (hiss). The whole AP concept is very >relevent to the Cypherpunks, whether the majority like it or not. In fact, I'd argue that it's inextricably linked to good encryption. Defending one will ultimately defend the other. >If your fear is that reporters will get hold of the wrong end of the >stick, then perhaps you are correct, but the real problem is the >*reporters*, not the attitude of the Cypherpunks. blame them. >propose a solution. (how about abolition of all libel laws?) Now _that's_ an excellent idea! Libel laws never protect the anti-establishment, non-mainstream portion of the public, for one. >> This is assuming that the statement "his violent views were >> rejected by the members of the group" is actually true! If >> there _is_ anyone else here who shares Bell's evil enthusiasms, >> I strongly encourage you to begin a new list dedicated to that >> topic. > >I disagree with the phrase "evil enthusiasms." Bell is not an >evil man. A little crazy perhaps, but not evil. Thanks...uh...I think... > If you bothered >to listen to him, you would find that his aim is to create a >"better" world, where people (especially politicians) are very >much more responsible for their own actions. He suggests that >the number of deaths due to AP will be less that the number of >deaths due to the current corrupt system. True. And it's not just the quantity of deaths that'll be lowered: The "quality" of those deaths (the justification for killing the target) will go up, which may seem to be an odd way to refer to it. Most of us will agree that if there was some way to swap the death of the victim, automatically, for the death of the criminal or attacker, that would be far more just arrangement, as well as rather rapidly deterring future killings. An example of the exact opposite is frequently exposed in discussing anti-gun-carry laws, which only disarm law-abiding citizens and leave the criminals armed. Such laws, therefore, actually swap the death of the criminal for the death of the victim. >think about it. how many on this group would have another man >killed for his views? For his noisy stereo? For a competive >advantage in business? I am confident the answer will be zero. Moreover, the number of people wanting to kill the "unjustified" target will be extremely low, meaning that one odd donor would have to pay a large amount of money to get "action" on his donation. >On the other hand, I would gladly throw in a few dollars to have >certain politicians killed. gladly. and I will be able to sleep >at night. You and a few million other people. Which is why AP will work so well getting rid of governments...and criminals. >I will sleep better knowing that, although I was >partly responsible for a mans death, I will have saved countless >others (a bit like dropping an a-bomb on Japan). That's exactly correct. But also, the very existence of such a system will _deter_ such people, meaning that it is very likely you won't have to pay for anybody's death at all...except for a few that resignation won't save. >Question for Jim - would you resort to AP to have Bryce popped off? Nope. Not when there are so many other deserving targets! B^) >Question for Bryce - would you resort to AP to have Jim popped off? It wouldn't do any good... Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Anti-Scientologists
by Rich Burroughs 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 05:37 PM 6/10/96 +0200, someone wrote: [snip] >Declan wrote: > >> Truth #2: Cults can exist in the absence of a charismatic leader. > >Would you describe Christianity as a cult? If not, why not? So we're going to argue about whether the word "cult" should apply to CoS?? Okay, how about this: it's a _religion_ that uses deception, mind control techniques, and criminal activities to attempt to get as much possible money from as many marks^H^H^H^H^H worshippers as possible, and goes to extreme lengths to silence its critics. Is that better? Hubbard started CoS because he was getting too much heat over the quackery and pseudoscience in "Dianetics." I'm going to start a religion, too, called the Church of the Shell Game. Don't you call it a cult, or I'll be real mad! Rich -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMbx6cYT0GKfZRA/9AQFUTwP+ODigyynDs76o039u/SgxP5K54LSOjsh+ AoKWi81U/cHwPABNZ+fhoP+Hcpd21m4mycWRcFoMwW/VC1xfuEYaCRrqhUlJy5oe EMYlHNbZQ/klZPBnZkfBZSJFApWpeZTfsaAPKnzwtEGJVTGd0GtdnUe8X2mfCJHJ Hc5gmTmyQvA= =RZOB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ______________________________________________________________________ Rich Burroughs richieb(a)teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~richieb See my Blue Ribbon Page at http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/blueribbon New EF zine "cause for alarm" - http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/cause

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HACK - Class III Information Warfare, Has It Begun? (fwd)
by Rich Graves 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Yes, I recently subscribed to Netly-L. What of it? Any bets on whether the Sunday Times is going to sue Time for this blatant copyright violation? :-) -rich ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:17:41 -0400 From: Noah Robischon <noah(a)pathfinder.com> Reply-To: netly-l(a)pathfinder.com To: Multiple recipients of list <netly-l(a)relay.pathfinder.com> Subject: HACK - Class III Information Warfare, Has It Begun? Well this update from The Sunday Times of London clarifies just how much last week's story was based on rumor. The answer: totally. (Esp. note the quote in paragraph #5). From: http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/Sunday-Times/stinwenws01027.html?12 55993 Secret DTI inquiry into cyberterror THE government has been holding a secret investigation into attacks by "cyber terrorists" on the City of London for more than two years. The Department of Trade and Industry (DTI), Bank of England, GCHQ, the secret listening station, and the Defence Research Agency (DRA) are involved in the inquiry. The existence of the investigation, which began in April 1994, emerged after The Sunday Times revealed last week that banks, broking firms and investment houses had paid millions of pounds to gangs that threaten to wipe out computer systems. Correspondence from the investigating authorities, seen by Insight, include letters from civil servants saying they are "extremely concerned" at the evidence of extortion demands. Yesterday the DTI issued a statement confirming the inquiry and suggesting its work had been hampered by the lack of co-operation from City institutions. "We are very interested in the allegations of extortion directed at City of London institutions which were brought to our attention in 1994. We responded then by involving many government organisations, including the DTI, the police, the Bank of England and other agencies. So far, we have not been presented with any hard evidence from victims.We would urge those threatened to come forward," a spokesman said. In one letter, dated May 1995, David Hendon, director of DTI technical affairs, wrote to a company specialising in computer security work stating that he was taking the City extortion issue "extremely seriously". Insight has since seen the evidence passed to the DTI and GCHQ which sparked the investigation. In 1994, a consultant working for a company which undertakes computer risk assessments for City institutions compiled a table of 46 attacks on banks and finance houses in New York, London and other centres, starting in January 1993. The list included details of raids on three British banks and one American investment house. The documents suggested that operations in the futures markets had been a focus for some of the attacks. Documents sent by the DRA, from the office of Professor David Parks, a senior director, indicate that the agency is especially interested in the "weaponry" deployed by the cyber terrorists. The agency believes high-intensity radio frequency (HIRF) guns may have been used to black out trading positions in City finance houses. The weapon disables a computer by firing electromagnetic radiation at it and is a "black programme" at the defence ministry, one of the highest security classification levels. Last December, Parks approached a company which specialises in defensive measures against information warfare and carries out work for GCHQ. For a£30,000 fee it was asked to arrange a demonstration of a portable HIRF weapon in Germany. Details of the HIRF weaponry and its use in the City have also been compiled by Computing magazine, which intends to pass them to the DTI and other authorities.

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Re: Kahn's "The CodeBreakers"
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:40 AM 6/10/96, Brad Shantz wrote: >For those wondering what the significance of Port Townsend is...well, >there is none. It is, however, the location of Fort Worden which is >where "An Officer and a Gentleman" was filmed. (Major piece of >military history, isn't it?) > Ah, but it does have some significance. "Liberty" is published out of Port Townsend. (More precisely, it was the last time I looked.) And it's near Hump Tulips, Sequim, and Chimicum (sp?). Ma and Pa Kettle country. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Report from Germany on "backdoor" net-censorship
by jaed＠best.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:10 PM 6/9/96, Ulf Moeller wrote: >Furthermore, sample news articles will be suject to detailed legal >evaluation. Should this result in suspicion or proof of transportation >of illegal contents, the ICTF can launch various steps to work against >propagation of these contents. For example, it can arrange for >blocking of complete newsgroups or retrospect "Cancel" of articles >already transmitted. Um. Does this ICTF understand the implications of sending forged cancel messages outside its own server, when the cancels are based strictly on disapproval of the content? Do they realize what the consequences will be for carriage of traffic from their node? Is Germany about to become known as "Cancelbunny Nation"? >Internet Media Counsil presents fist measurements for Voluntary >Self-Control This is a wonderful type in the fifth word above... ;-) -- The Internet interprets the US Congress as system damage and routes around it. - with apologies to John Gilmore

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Re: Gore opposes unwarranted'' Internet censorship
by shabbir＠vtw.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We should not cut the Administration slack on the basis of some carefully spun comment by Al Gore's handlers. We're going to win this one for ourselves. The fact that the White House has begun the process of backing away from their own case through ol' Al should not, and will not, change my mind. If you're going to give them credit for anything, give them credit for directing the Justice dept. to state that they were opposed to Exon's ideas very early on in the game. (even if that position became amazingly low profile when faced with the certainty of the rest of the telecomm bill) -Shabbir J. Safdar * Online Representative * Voters Telecomm. Watch (VTW) http://www.vtw.org/ * Defending Your Rights In Cyberspace Mike McNally writes: >Joseph M. Reagle Jr. wrote: >> >> Sounds good but I had to laugh when I heard it... is he at odds with >> other members of the administration, or is this rhetoric? > >Good cop, bad cop. > >______c_____________________________________________________________________ >Mike M Nally * Tiv^H^H^H IBM * Austin TX * pain is inevitable > m5(a)tivoli.com * m101(a)io.com * > <URL:http://www.io.com/~m101> * suffering is optional

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InfoWar and a.r.s
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It seems to me we are seeing an example of Information Warfare in the doings around alt.religion.scientology. The board game "Go" models warfare by having a goal of controlling territory. In the a.r.s war, we see the combatants trying to control the newsgroup. We even see an arms race with weapons such as cancelbots being developed and employed. The major difference between newsgroup war and conventional war is that the dimension a victor needs to control is time and not space. One question to ponder is whether the a.r.s war will perform the same role as the Spanish Civil War vs. WW2. Will we see newsgroup war expand to other news groups? I would think a few of the .culture.* groups could be candidates. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bill Frantz | The CDA means | Periwinkle -- Computer Consulting (408)356-8506 | lost jobs and | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | dead teenagers | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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Slander of Catholic Church
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 7:42 PM 6/10/96, Rich Burroughs wrote: >.... Okay, how about this: it's a _religion_ that uses >deception, mind control techniques, and criminal activities to >attempt to get as much possible money from as many marks^H^H^H^H^H >worshippers as possible, and goes to extreme lengths to silence >its critics. I don't think this vicious criticism of the Catholic Church is warranted here! Many of those investigated by the Holy Office actually _were_ heretics, and the turning of bread into the holy flesh of Our Lord Jesus Christ has been verified by Vatican scientists. Further, those peasants of Latin America who give their earnings to the Church so that more jewel-encrusted crosses and goblets can be bought do not see themselves as victims of a scam. After all, the Church may get richer in this secular world as they get poorer, but the Church promises them a seat at St. Peter's dinner table in the next life. As to the Church silencing its critics...surely you are not referring to that Jew slander about the Vatican banker found hanging from Black Friar's bridge in London? Or the Protestant myth about Opus Dei and its dispensation of papal justice? The Pope can utter nothing that is false when he speaks ex cathedra. You heathens had better remember this, else you may expect an invitation from the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (which some of you heretics and nonbelievers may know by its old name, the Sacred Congregation of Universal Inquisition). Millions alive today will reveal the truth before they die. --Cardinal Timothy May (Who believes all cults and religions are basically the same shuck and jive, and who thinks the "Church of Scientology" is actually a little bit less foolish that the Church of Mormon, with its "baptism of dead ancestors" into the Church, the funny underwear people have to secretly wear, etc. However, I have great respect for the practical tactics of the Mormons, and no respect for the day to day behavior of the CoS.) Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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PGP key revocation
by Rich Graves 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

If you exchanged private email with me in the last 18 months, encrypted or not, in either direction, you should assume that it has been read. If you want to contact me, please use my alpha pager, rich(a)beep.stanford.edu (60 characters in the Subject: line) or leave a message at 415-725-7710 and I will call you back. My backup key 0x6992AB4D is probably still secure, but I'm going to generate a new one as soon as I find the time to build a clean machine. Thank you for playing. -rich -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzCFUi4AAAEEAN/ubnqjGw3s2lNatp3UIqsMarHA9GyZQijm5kgSMaSrsp6M u43nYmUvcfEAffDv4bH2uH6D1KnSx5DlNoC7uxzjD2jJjAcIiEo/5wkGrBPUBjA+ C9hHsVXIrzDvXWcz/iHAJhyljgqGl9NkvGAy6PNLcJk/ljmixI3DXUbM57SdAAUR iQCVAwUgMbxsZY3DXUbM57SdAQGudwP+MOWhcL+ZtoPDMjZg/qcUyLINlp/0y2/o 9K/bluz0C5Q62wN+9NV3FCghdtdUTYjPd0bMUKVjRds0jedAq5yOqoc3nTamiqa2 Y1ybm7gnlpqubrbVlFnlFLRJspDva6wZfD8Hdzrd0X/BfWIJYLv17epZYue3WCDF zsW2B0n4GNK0N1JpY2hhcmQgQ2hhcmxlcyBHcmF2ZXMgPGxsdXJjaEBuZXR3b3Jr aW5nLnN0YW5mb3JkLmVkdT6JARUDBRAxQg5/iBwV98nhsvEBAXEfB/9KaEAILYNA sNMiIhjcgJWYXh0bfpgNA53wch4jcwpUtn7btnfvpiHXBsfzGhkbNjjVRUqjRzwF 3MvwZvj+ABCIe+JKD2HEZZDe1GH5Bx/OKNWnTxfNQK4oy1pjwQ+mTVHYj1c+P4qb naPW8BLc6rL1jKtDjH0Jm/xC5f1H7dtSTPewv/n4JrcBZFeneOnPOJoM33NQbOgJ 9VEEe3OvW7QbLxwuMKxKwBiOG7BMJDDb/SHanqZo1lExbDXUuAiI18tKW3E9s87t CkJukLJWvXUOA3e2DWN4IDfvFde80NPYbSVbpzLvuLYwxK+iAGshifXVXZe49Cr1 IvTKM+pwI4CeiQBVAwUQMUJ+W/thU5e7emAFAQFMIQH/VilvyRTg23royZQpuk5F YXHEued4yyApNXPthCxZIYe24nUlcgpY4QWKy++nmUV25OGJR6Y2WsC2z0XIWygZ zYkAlQMFEDFAYX1pqHkdFx/OXQEBYGgEAJDoATPIWIxriQa5tadTAu3bGvVv2zkb d0GPXTfr16m/GvLiJ5lmCYqcsKuB/TFcDx/mpKRKQ1kxwOKUwd/W5aSFN5keIlDW xv0XbGVsHfA+k0vUDQ8drEPd5TdIRvNzPqm2bZyVnGslfvYsFM5nSj2GdrkZgxR2 jxBprZhaES0giQCVAwUQMTjO/hRnBgsaWCnFAQHpNAP/ZoZhHA/JzAecCXPETJIf 9zjPKi4Ih465nxwnhXXwUtNVMFjq7SfJWGSPr/Ei+PE+TKunoGY0/FxV38uyFxXR Cu2OD3JMIv24NfnUHPnRq/0Hd/NFknGcL1YMXz2DZ63sPO/8Q8GCxXsQ+503DRS2 EUEUSL3ncsukpyPEOb1Sk1WJAJUDBRAxOM8dFIEgbOEpZk0BAR8NBADNJx2lstV7 FziO7O/Aq50mF/oqy4ccAPGzEr2bzGHsP2p7eOG+YJIGI4OrZljoKfhnTtEHiRtu Fl0m0HsvMVK1Gqbzr+j47gpCDv81WEQae5lNHy5/xWGItEPRZj3EWke8fJWh8HaL f0sSgGaYtFjj4x7E524NONHlvln21VjWbIkAlQMFEDE4zlEaFuRhG5FXbQEBPs8E AIQjJgfAdyLxYz/IQy8dCxviausupCtvKKoKdsLj9Q6WN68tjqtjFJI2QHltyjVT 5cyUTpFfegb0PnBmagvkC9fZF3o7N8Mlf0tPV77w9fbjZ7E7pcGdU4S3PNeDvTAb ChVokB6NigAzXKyaJDlPRAJszF+GOt83HYbOtZWzLEVwiQCVAwUQMTjOsCe8yKJt SqxdAQEPEwQArHWrSOHWL7m4ZK1QIEQdpwlZySJM5w53wBS1APp7/MtE39/7/nTp 4FPs5e0Vx/AYMyWHuSo2NNL+iFmGNYrQzAn3wu866gFefjIabx/g0BaklvH/5RwT IXq78R+//W41UEKu7X4SI4pwg5xNroUsCWdc3id8O4uZiwWydu/ocn6JAJUDBRAx OM4vQK1BjWmSq00BAXXeA/48YpMA9xc02wqScPo+dVPG5EP+K2wSgjoflkjhTkJ2 N+NNcSihmbKbviHZc/NIcpbw+3pKGZNllv0FemlPNUfvvm5ILKv88w9nHK4DXLEt c/BOuCJtHnNqU2edBET6mVOnqKyoTIyYLF3gRQusoxB+P9snPEgjMqGJezekI6tk DYkAlQMFEDCFUk6Nw11GzOe0nQEBqD0D/27O7hOU+DehP4vT1Sb5deYI/bFHoOks TrlGixC+lAsYMigsz3CFzE8XTNzohVQm1iaeO/43YHrr7cLOTfhep41u4Ag0iSUm zzDv0iQyAiolsypcZ49wBc8m3VsJVHpUVMG0qmf34xUxXuNUT4BxgGvXEYjEV8eQ M3350OT5u9i+iQCVAwUQMTjO0tlBWyzhG2y5AQGk/wQAxDjtawWTI8vv7sW1V2dy qbEJ/76Gfgzv/W6pP3MJVrcDesU7/qQ4aSdPAIP7Ac7RXySMMsrdiRQXFKDHW4I4 78aF1A2HjvlMcrdNR+aldaHkyc+ffv3Z0Y1v3ov+GQM9V2KHdtMXOE3e8PlEg5xF iOfwWTpihvCMXeM0P+8t+rGJAJUDBRAxOM6P5PUudM+LRA0BAciKA/0bts6s+xKW eqUMdUjnLclC+Zi50OKhS8LuS8RKLSmo5885eiSMqAaOQYjV924EPBmfsNhWsS3G 51jSxGHj8E/2b3rjsUWOW+O5Lq7DM8W4b0IuQkFINEwgfZ6T5MUc1iPQtYo8l/7W vR3lAhLFQRmnQgGr8at+ekNumeckasFeALQsUmljaCBFbmNyeXB0ZWQgRHJvcGJv eCA8bGx1cmNoQGFscGhhLmMyLm9yZz60QEZvciBndWFyYW50ZWVkIHNlY3VyaXR5 LCB1c2UgMHg2OTkyQUI0RCBmb3IgcmljaC5ncmF2ZXNAZm9yc3l0aGW0KlIuIENo YXJsZXMgR3JhdmVzIDxyY2dyYXZlc0BpeC5uZXRjb20uY29tPrQkUmljaCBHcmF2 ZXMgPGFuMjc0MDc0QGFub24ucGVuZXQuZmk+tBdKdXN0IFJpY2ggPHJpY2hAYzIu b3JnPg== =aVAl -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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