December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: SEVERE undercapacity, we need more remailer servers FAST
by jamesd＠echeque.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 02:08 AM 5/20/96 EDT, you wrote: > What countries are noticeable for being anti-Scientology? > They would appear to be good locations for special-purpose > remailer ultimate-output ends. Scientology was illegal in Australia last time I heard. They declared that you could not be a religion and charge a fee for religious service the way that Scientology charges. They then defined them as practicing medicine, and hit them with snake oil laws. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com

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Electronic Banking and Commerce Conference
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text From: "Ledig, Robert" <LEDIGRO(a)ffhsj.com> To: "'ecash mailing list'" <ecash(a)digicash.com> Subject: Electronic Banking and Commerce Conference Date: Mon, 20 May 96 12:22:00 edt Encoding: 279 TEXT Sender: owner-ecash(a)digicash.com Precedence: bulk Status: U 21st Century Banking Alert No. 96-5-20 May 20, 1996 ELECTRONIC BANKING AND COMMERCE CONFERENCE TO BE HELD IN WASHINGTON, D.C. ON JUNE 7, 1996 _________________________*________________________ FRIED, FRANK, HARRIS, SHRIVER & JACOBSON ARTHUR ANDERSEN LLP and THE SECURA GROUP * * * Present A One-Day Conference ELECTRONIC BANKING AND COMMERCE: FINDING YOUR PLACE IN THE FUTURE * * * June 7, 1996 8:00 a.m. to 5:45 p.m. Renaissance Hotel Washington, D.C. _________________________*________________________ ABOUT THE CONFERENCE Background 1996 is likely to be a pivotal year for the introduction of electronic banking and commerce in the United States. Among the major developments that will mark 1996 as an historic year in this field are: The Federal Reserve Board proposes the first major regulatory initiative to address the treatment of stored value products. Stored value cards are introduced to the public in a television commercial seen by millions during the Super Bowl followed by a high visibility pilot project during the Atlanta Summer Olympics. Visa and Mastercard reach agreement on protocol for secure transmission of credit card information over the Internet. Electronic cash becomes available for transmission over the Internet. Banks and software providers engage in a major effort to attract bank customers to on-line banking services. Usage of the World Wide Web for product marketing expands exponentially. Landmark telecommunications reform legislation is enacted. These developments present both an opportunity and a challenge for banks, financial services firms, technology providers and a wide range of commercial enterprises. The construction of the electronic financial services delivery system of the 21st Century will be driven by technology and will require a comprehensive reevaluation and realignment of consumer preferences, privacy, security, costs and conveniences. Simultaneously, these new delivery systems will be directly affected by emerging government regulation related to law enforcement, monetary policy, bank regulation and consumer protection. The conference is designed to provide participants with a broad insight into these factors, to hear from the leaders who will drive this process and thus offer participants a basis for evaluating the near and long term prospects for the banking industry and other financial services providers in the new world of electronic commerce. About the Sponsors Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson is a nationally recognized law firm with over 400 lawyers in New York, Washington, D.C., Los Angeles, London and Paris. The firm's financial services practice is led by Thomas P. Vartanian, who has written and spoken widely on electronic banking and commerce issues and is a member of the editorial board of the Electronic Banking and Commerce Report. The firm offers the 21st Century Banking Alert Page*, which can be found on the World Wide Web at http//:www.ffhsj.com/bancmail/bancpage.htm. Arthur Andersen LLP is a unit of Andersen Worldwide, the leading professional services organization in the world with over 360 offices in more than 70 countries and over $8 billion in revenues. Arthur Andersen's Financial Markets Practice has a dedicated, international team of over 5,000 professionals who provide a full range of assurance, risk management, business consulting, economic and financial consulting and tax advisory services to over 10,000 financial services institutions in banking, capital markets and insurance. The Secura Group is among the nation's preeminent financial services consulting firms, offering strategic planning, financial advisory, organizational and management consulting, risk management, and regulatory counseling services to financial institutions throughout the United States. Headquartered in Washington, D.C., Secura also maintains offices in Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Los Angeles, New York and San Francisco. _________________________*________________________ PROGRAM 8:00 a.m. Breakfast Remarks by Daniel Eldridge, Vice President, DigiCash 9:00 a.m. Program Overview Dorsey L. Baskin, Jr., Partner, Arthur Andersen LLP Thomas P. Vartanian, Partner, Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson 9:15 a.m. What New Technology Means for Banks How will technology affect the competitive position between depository institutions? How much of a threat do banks face from non-bank competitors? What approaches are available to banks? John P. Danforth, Managing Director, The Secura Group Charles M. Nathan, Partner, Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson Thomas P. Vartanian, Partner, Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson Richard M. Whiting, Senior Director for Regulatory Affairs and General Counsel, The Bankers Roundtable 10:35 a.m. What New Technology Means for Non-Banks What are the prospects for Internet commerce? When does a non-bank become a bank? How will non-banks work with banks? Implications of the new telecommunications legislation. Robert H. Ledig, Partner, Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson Robert J. Lesko, Managing Partner, Financial Services Industry, ATT Solutions Thomas Nelson, Manager, Arthur Andersen LLP Phoebe Simpson, Analyst, Jupiter Communications 11:50 a.m. On-line Banking Options available to banks. Web site banking. Key considerations and risks for banks. Dorsey L. Baskin, Jr., Partner, Arthur Andersen LLP Lance Conn, Counsel, AOL Services 12:30 p.m. Lunch Remarks by Tim Jones, Chief Executive, Mondex 2:00 p.m. Stored Value Products and Smart Cards The Federal Reserve Board's proposed revision to Regulation E. Deposit insurance issues. Design and structure of these products. William F. Keenan, Senior Vice President, Marketing and Business Development, NatWest Bank (Delaware) Jeffrey M. Kopchik, Senior Policy Analyst, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation 3:00 p.m. Electronic Money Understanding the various models for electronic money. Legal and competitive issues. Credit card usage on the Internet. Jim Richardson, Senior Manager, Arthur Andersen LLP Frank O. Trotter, III, Senior Vice President and Director, International Markets Division, Mark Twain Bank Peter Wayner, Author, Digital Cash: Commerce On The Net 4:00 p.m. Public Policy Perspectives Implications for law enforcement. Systemic risks associated with electronic banking and commerce. Impact on the competitive position of banks and non-banks. Consumer interests in the new technology. Michael ter Maat, Ph.D., Senior Economist, American Bankers Association Stephen R. Kroll, Legal Counsel, Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, U.S. Department of the Treasury Anne Wallace, Attorney-Advisor, Financial Management Service, U.S. Department of the Treasury, Janlori Goldman, Deputy Director, Center for Democracy and Technology 5:20 p.m. Open Discussion Period 5:45 p.m. Reception _________________________*________________________ Additional Program Information Conference attendees will receive a copy of DigitalCash: Commerce On The Net, a leading book on electronic money, along with a set of program materials. Continuing legal education credit is being applied for in numerous jurisdictions. If you have specific CLE questions, please contact Debbie Rizzo at (202) 639-7201. A limited number of rooms will be available for a special rate at the Renaissance Hotel, 999 Ninth Street, N.W., Washington, D.C. For reservations, please call the hotel directly at (202) 898-9000 (Ext. 3400) and reference Electronic Banking and Commerce. For further information on the conference, please contact Bob Ledig at 21stCen(a)ffhsj.com or (202) 639-7016. FAX REGISTRATION FORM To register, please fax this form to Debbie Rizzo at (202) 639-7008, or call her at (202) 639-7201. The fee for the conference is $235 if paid in advance ($295 at the conference location). Early registration is recommended as seating is limited. I/we will be attending the Electronic Banking and Electronic Commerce conference. _______________________________________________________________ Name(s) _______________________________________________________________ Title(s) _______________________________________________________________ Organization Name _______________________________________________________________ Address _______________________________________________________________ Telephone and Fax Numbers Credit Card Information: Visa Mastercard (Circle One) ___________________________________________________________________ Account No. ___________________________________________________________________ Expiration Date __________________________________________________________________ Signature If paying by check, please make payable to Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson and mail to Debbie Rizzo at Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson, Suite 800, 1001 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20004-2505. Thomas P. Vartanian Robert H. Ledig David L. Ansell Washington, D.C. 202-639-7200 Visit the 21st Century Banking Alert Page on the World Wide Web at http://www.ffhsj.com/bancmail/bancpage.htm Copyright 1996. Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson. All rights reserved. 21st Century Banking Alert is a trademark and servicemark of Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "If they could 'just pass a few more laws', we would all be criminals." --Vinnie Moscaritolo The e$ Home Page: http://thumper.vmeng.com/pub/rah/

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Re: Is Chaum's System Traceable or Untraceable?
by frantz＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 9:10 AM 5/20/96 -0700, Ian Goldberg wrote: >However, if you use the "fully anonymous" protocol, change becomes trivial. >You don't have to go online; the payer (the shop) does, which it assumedly >already is. Another benefit is that coins received in this way as change >are immediately spendable by you, without having to go online in between. Perhaps I am confused, but I see no need for change in the fully anonymous protocol. I see the fully anonymous protocol as: (1) The payee generates a coin for the amount of purchase, blinds it and gives it to the payer. (2) The payer blinds it again and gives it to the bank, which signs it debiting the payer's account. (3) The payer removes his blinding and gives the signed coin to the payee. (4) The payee removes his blinding and deposits the coin. Step 1 could be called a request for payment (an invoice), step 2 a withdrawal, step 3 the payment, and step 4 a deposit. Is there another version which allows the payee to have an unconnected wallet of coins and get change in return? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bill Frantz | The CDA means | Periwinkle -- Computer Consulting (408)356-8506 | lost jobs and | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | dead teenagers | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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An alternative to remailer shutdowns (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 15:02:08 -0700 > From: Hal <hfinney(a)shell.portal.com> > Subject: An alternative to remailer shutdowns > was apparently sent through my remailer. According to 18 USC 875(c), > "Whoever transmits in interstate commerce any communication containing > any threat to kidnap any person or any threat to injure the person of > another, shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more > than five years, or both." I may not be able to continue operating > either of my remailers (alumni.caltech.edu and shell.portal.com) for > much longer due to this kind of abuse. There should be a section in there dealing with 'knowingly'. If not then we should immediately bring charges against any and all newspapers who have ever printer a ransom letter, or perhaps even the Unibomber Manifesto since there is clear evidence of 'threat to injure the person of another'. Jim Choate

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(fwd) Re: Spoofed Flame Email (was Re: Clinton & the net) (fwd)
by Matt Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Found on sci.crypt. Most of you have probably already seen it, but I sent it here for those who didn't Matt - --- [ begin forwarded message ] --- From: ebright(a)coil.com (Jim Ebright) Newsgroups: alt.privacy,alt.privacy.clipper,alt.security,alt.security.pgp,comp.org.cpsr.talk,comp.org.eff.talk,sci.crypt,alt.culture.internet,alt.culture.usenet Subject: Re: Spoofed Flame Email (was Re: Clinton & the net) Date: 17 May 1996 09:48:57 -0400 Organization: Central Ohio Internet Link, Inc. (614)242-3814 Lines: 65 Distribution: inet Message-ID: <4ni049$o4o(a)bronze.coil.com> References: <epic-news-2304961436240001(a)204.91.138.112> <4mrt2u$li0(a)newsserv.cs.sunysb.edu> <wszq7grcwp.fsf(a)maple.sover.net> <r9hgtna4b5.fsf(a)pc496938.bs.boeblingen.ibm.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bronze.coil.com Xref: news.cc.utah.edu alt.privacy:9606 alt.privacy.clipper:1204 alt.security:11072 alt.security.pgp:20972 comp.org.cpsr.talk:5281 comp.org.eff.talk:27326 sci.crypt:11937 alt.culture.internet:11856 alt.culture.usenet:21781 In article <r9hgtna4b5.fsf(a)pc496938.bs.boeblingen.ibm.com>, Michael Deindl <mdeindl(a)vnet.ibm.com> wrote: ... > >IMO anonymous remailers are a very good addition to the net. >Unfortunately some users are a destructive addition to the net and >abuse them. Oh, yes, and of course all these evil kiddy-porn dealers >use them, too. And after all: a good citizen has nothing to hide and >doesn't need anonymous-remailers.... > >(For the clueless: the last 2 sentences are sarcasm/irony) > I thought this excerpt taken from comp.risks would be interesting here... I snarfed it off a webpage where the user thought the comments about insecure keys was interesting.... I find the anon-remailer comments the most interesting... [From the RISKS digest] Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 14:37:14 -0500 (EST) From: Frank Sudia <sudiaf(a)btec.com> Subject: CIA & NSA Run Remailers (Viktor Mayer-Schoenberger via Lisa Pease) >Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 16:52:42 -0800 (PST) >From: Lisa Pease <lpease(a)netcom.com> >To: jfk-conspiracy <jfk-conspiracy(a)netcom.com> >Subject: CIA & NSA run remailers (fwd) I attended last week's ``Information, National Policies, and International Infrastructure" Symposium at Harvard Law School, organized by the Global Information Infrastructure Commission, the Kennedy School, and the Institute for Information Technology Law & Policy of Harvard Law School. During the presentation by Paul Strassmann, National Defense University, and William Marlow, Science Applications International Corporation, entitled ``Anonymous Remailers as Risk-Free International Infoterrorists'', the question was raised from the audience (Professor Charles Nesson, Harvard Law School) -- in a rather extended debate -- whether the CIA and similar government agencies are involved in running anonymous remailers, as this would be a perfect target to scan possibly illegal messages. Both presenters explicitly acknowledged that a number of anonymous remailers in the US are run by government agencies scanning traffic. Marlow said that the government runs at least a dozen remailers and that the most popular remailers in France and Germany are run by the respective government agencies in these countries. In addition, they mentioned that the NSA has successfully developed systems to break encrypted messages will less than 1000-bit [public] keys and strongly suggested using at least 1024-bit keys. They said that they themselves use 1024-bit keys. I ask Marlow afterwards if these comments were off or on record, he paused then said that he can be quoted. So I thought I pass that on. It seems interesting enough, don't you think? Viktor Mayer-Schoenberger, Information Law Project, Austrian Institute for Legal Policy - -- A/~~\A Jim Ebright NET Security: http://www.coil.com/~ebright/security.html ((0 0))_______ mailto:ebright@coil.com "I used to hunt elephants but I \ / the \ don't do that anymore. There aren't enough of them" - Newt (--)\ OSU | Gingrich to Andy Lodge, Theo.Roosevelt Cons. Award winner. - -- Matt Smith - msmith(a)unislc.slc.unisys.com "Nothing travels faster than light, with the possible exception of bad news, which follows its own rules." - Douglas Adams, "Mostly Harmless" Disclaimer: I came up with these ideas, so they're MINE! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMaDf7MWUKiYjg/fZAQEGggQArICNll7falgyuk93xY7NjWIeFxDhjj7f 8s8W2+8kVZ7G6ACDyGiw+iFBI8miI93i35PGAKjuPR0HnkihJF3OYXof6/pJJ2gr 3Xq7gkRRb2rAtU1Yklj+BK9jhqSBxCFhBnisW/PVfQCTer59M9ndT/5gKTLUVxjv BtBFoZ7ygi8= =DEhb -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Byte on E-Money
by jya＠pipeline.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

June Byte features "Electric Money," by Udo Flohr. He reviews the key areas of security, authentication, anonymity and divisibility; examines the products of DigiCash, DEC, MS, RSA, IBM and others offering E-cash, digital checks, digital bank checks, smart cards and electronic coupons and tokens, with side glances at Europes's CAFE and Oscar. Peter Wayner guarantees "How to Make a Million Dollars" by minting electric money.

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Dave Harman
by Dan Harmon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Please, Do not confuse me with Dave Harman!!! He is not my evil twin. Dan Harmon

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Re: AP
by Jean-Francois Avon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 20 May 96 at 14:51, Jim Ray wrote: > [He IS L.D., nobody else would say "anti-psuedospoofing."] Since I hit C'punks around 6 months ago, I have no idea who this mythical figure is, alhought I see the name pop-up occasionnally. Is there a Detweiller FAQ somewhere? > Why be Jimbellish just before an election. If AP is inevitable, OK, > but why emphasis on murder when the press hates the 'Net? The people > will support it because jimbell comes off as a LOON, and people > dislike loons, and vote against them. Interesting. Has AP ever popped-up in the conventional medias? Then, again, I know an awfull lot of people who would applaude Bell. But most of them are not computer litterate. They are from another generation, not brainwashed by "Don't ask what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country"... > I'm 35, and I may actually die before I do. I hope not. [Black humor] any AP proponents with an eye (or a buck) on you? :) > >You'll note that the psycho-epistemology necessary to > >commit murder is quite close to the one necessary to coerce poeples > >to pay taxes. > > This kind of thinking might authorize a massive Cherokee > massacre if it spread, IMO. Please, do point out the similarities and the differences... I think that the context is very different. > We must reach the "quit stealing" > phase beore nuts can fantasize about a revenge phase which > likely will never be. Are you talking of an open war a la Bosnia? > We must either leave some wrongs in the > past or be cursed with them forever. This is what I was talking about taking things out of context. Since you agree on that, the Cherokee thing is ruled out. But govt action are a matter of the present and future. Some peoples see it as legitimate self-defense. Among the peoples who do not object to be coerced to pay taxex for services are two groups the one that: a) figure out that they get more than they pay and b) want to pay, even if they realize they get less than they pay for. the a) group is much bigger than b). At least by an order of magnitude. Now, in a world where the govt would not use coercion on economical and fiscal matters, b) would keep giving. But what a) would do? What they've already done since a hundred years: push for legislation that favor them. > Bottom line for me: "Two wrongs don't make a right." Please state the basic premise that make you declare what is "wrong" in the context of AP. I am not bugging you simply to do so. For example, do you think that, for ethical reasons, you are not only justified but actually *obligated* to use physical violence in certain contexts? I guess not. But many peoples think they have to... I think that you simply try to evade the necessity of defining for yourself what exactly is what the govt is doing. Personnally, I did not reach any conclusions yet. > We must, as > Libertarians, face the fact that taxation we object to is not seen > by many people as coercive. General opinion is not what define truth nor reality. If I refuse to pay my taxes, they'll use physical violence to get what they want. You might object that I enjoyed the benefits of the spending of taxes, but I am yet to see any contract that I entered with "society". > Even then, I prefer the judicial process to the oligarchy > this scheme would entail This scheme is *not* an oligarchy. Pay a visit to any good dictionary near you. Words have precise meaning and it is *much* better to stick to it... Actually, since it is ruled by money, it might be a "buckarchy", but again, everybody can spare a few bucks, so it might be a democracy too if you insist on twisting the meaning of words. > and I think I'd be an easy target for > wealthy statists, who could also use the system. At first look, of course. But operationnally, you have to consider the mind of the statist to figure out the likeliness of their using the system? I do not deny that it is very likely that a few statists will use the system. But most won't because they don't like to slain their milk cows. Remember, we are idea-processing machines. > If Bell could post > fewer times, he'd be more convincing. He is in many killfiles. JMR Many peoples cannot stand to see any opinions that differs from theirs. But why care at all be read by such peoples? DePompadour, Societe d'Importation Ltee; Limoges porcelain, silverware and crystal JFA Technologies, R&D consultants; physists, technologists and engineers. PGP keys at: http://w3.citenet.net/users/jf_avon ID# C58ADD0D : 529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 Unsollicited commercial e-mail will be proofread at US165 $/h Any sender of such material will be considered as to have ac- cepted the above mentionned terms.

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Re: The Crisis with Remailers
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:32 AM 5/20/96 -0700, Ian Goldberg wrote: >I mentioned this to Chaum, and he didn't really seem agree with the need for >something lower-level... > >Another problem with postage in Mixmaster: the minimum ecash payment is >$0.01. Do we want to charge that much for email? Need we consider >micropayments? Absolutely! Given the exponentially increasing rate of data transmission ease, and corresponding cost reduction per bit, any "reasonable" minimum payment today becomes an unreasonable one tomorrow, and a hilariously outrageous one 10 years from now. Suppose the US Government had put a "information storage tax" on hard disks in about 1980, of about $10 per megabyte which would have worked out to be about 1/20 of the retail value at that time. Today, a 1.6 gigabyte hard disk would cost about $1850, which would be $250 for the drive and $1600 for the tax... Any more questions? Many months ago, I suggested using the idea of "probabilistic payments," in which a person could make a very tiny purchase with a large coin, by in effect "gambling" with the payment: You could buy a 0.1-cent email with a 1-cent coin, in which the likelihood of actually paying is 10%. Statistically, both myself and the vendor will be happy in the long run. An advantage of this system is that the payments can be made arbitrarily small and of indefinite granularity: I can pay you 0.3156893 cents with only 1-cent coins. I would be surprised if I was the first to think of such a system, at least in the ecash world, but I never heard anything to the contrary. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: encrypted open books (Was why does the state still stand)
by jamesd＠echeque.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Mon, 20 May 1996 jamesd(a)echeque.com wrote: >> Look up cypernomicon, "open encrypted books" At 01:30 PM 5/20/96 -0700, Wei Dai wrote: > There is indeed a short section in the Cyphernomicon about encrypted open > books. Unfortunately it doesn't describe it in detail, An organization, such as a bank, issues signed, non anonymous promises to pay to various nyms -- in other words bank accounts, or interest bearing bonds, or some such. A nym would like to know what the total amount of such signed obligation is, so that he can be sure it is less than the total value of the institutions good name and readily findable and confiscatable assets. But we do not want a bunch of outsiders getting a list of lots of private information about who owns what, (such as auditors who are usually in the pockets of the tax collectors). The institution needs to be able to prove that it only owes total amount X in this form, without letting Tom, Dick, and Harry know who it owes amount X to, and why. To do this it organizes its accounts in a binary tree, and constructs a one way checksum tree checksum, revealing to each custom the part of the tree he is on, all the way up to the root, which must be the same for all customers, and must be placed in some public place, so that any customer can tell that his account is included in the total openly admitted obligations of the institution, and any customer can, by revealing secret information, prove that he is one of the people that the institution has publicly admitted owing money to. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com

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