December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Socio-Economic Cults (Re: Cypherpunk Cults)
by John Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

stonedog: >You >pick up the shotgun you keep in the closet by the front door and say, "If >I have commited a crime, then arrest me. Otherwise, get off of my >property." The LEA's reply, "You just made a big mistake, bud." Twenty >minutes later they return with a fifty agents with automatic rifles and >orders to shoot to kill the "spy". > >Of course, if he just "went along quietly", he would have spent a few >years rotting in an "internment camp" while his business failed or he lost >his job to someone fortunate enough to have immigrated from Italy or >Germany instead of Japan. That's better than endangering the lives or >yourself and your family, right? Good description of the problem. Nicely drawn. >You might feel that the example that you responded to was a bit too >simplistically polemic, but I think for many people, especially those in >this forum, your hypothetical situation is not at all an ethical dilemma. The real ethical dilemma was with the principle that you are ethically justified in shooting if you think your life is threatened. I chose this example as one in which both sides feel that way. There are many other cases I could have chosen. Between the two examples given earlier, the armed prowler and the rude jerk in the next car, there are a whole range of difficult cases. In the case at hand, you seem to be saying that it is unwise for the Japanese man to shoot, especially if he has family. But is it wrong? Suppose he has no family, and he chooses to shoot, then gets killed himself for his troubles. Can you say who is at fault? There is something wrong with an ethical system which says both sides were justified in shooting. Yet both sides feared for their lives, and that was what was suggested as a justification. Keep in mind too that we should try not to rely too much on hindsight. Camps like Manzanar were relatively benign. But instead of a Japanese American, consider a Jew in Poland. He's in the same situation. Hindsight tells us that maybe he'd do better to drive off the cops and then try to escape before they come back. Few Jews anticipated that the internment they were sent to was going to be any worse than how it turned out for the Japanese Americans. So if you want to say that the Japanese was not justified in shooting because the camps were likely to be safe, the same would apply to the Jew. "John ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Fade to Gray... (Politically Correct)
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A Caucasian cop pulls over an African-American in front of the house of a person of Japanese ancestry. The African-American and the person of Japanese ancestry, fearing for their lives, begin shooting at the Caucasian cop. The cop shoots back, killing both of them. The city erupts in riots. The cop is charged with murder by a Hispanic prosecutor and goes before a female judge and a mixed-race jury. The jury finds the cop "Not guilty." so that they can get the channel remote in the second riot, for the TV they got in the first riot. It turns out that the cop was once spanked, as a child, and he sues the dead mens' insurance companies because the trial brought back his repressed memories of the event. Far above the city, a nuclear bomb falls from the bottom of a small airplane. Strangely, all of the members of the CypherPunks list were out of town that day. Kent Crispin hears the voice come over the radio of his private plane, warning him that he must land his plane immediately, or be shot down. He looks out at the wing and notices, for the first time, that someone has removed the identifying numbers from his plane. Crispin looks at the printouts of CypherPunks posts sitting on the seat beside him, and realizes that he is wearing a T-shirt with 4 lines of Perl code for unexportable encryption. Jim Bell looks up at the Men in Black who are interrogating him. A huge, shit-eating grin begins to spread across his face. "Kent Crispin?" he replies to their question. "Yeah. He's my best friend. Why do you ask?" <fade to grey>

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Re: Notes from NIS&T Key Escrow Export conference.
by Pat Farrell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"Peter Trei" <trei(a)process.com> writes: > I think we can infer from this that the USG has, or soon expects to have, > the ability to brute 64 bits of key. That is what I heard (implied) too. If not today, in a reasonably foreseeable future. Remember, this is not an issue today, only weirdos such as the c'punks care today. The govies move slowly. They are setting the stage for tomorrow. >> It is clear that this meeting is a shame. Everyone in industry > A shame certainly, but I suspect you meant 'sham' (not a spelling flame, > the difference in meaning is important). Sorry for the typo, yes, I meant sham, fake, theater, all smoke and mirrors, nothing sincere, etc. See reference to "stage" above. All typos are mine. Pat Pat Farrell Grad Student http://www.isse.gmu.edu/students/pfarrell Info. Systems & Software Engineering, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA PGP key available on homepage #include <standard.disclaimer>

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Cypherpunks Meeting / Tokyo 9/6
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

for more info, email yt(a)htp.org yt

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90 degree turn Re: Socio-Economic Cults (Re: Cypherpunk Cults)
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:34 PM 8/28/97 PDT, John Smith wrote: ... >Keep in mind too that we should try not to rely too much on >hindsight. Camps like Manzanar were relatively benign. But >instead of a Japanese American, consider a Jew in Poland. He's in >the same situation. Hindsight tells us that maybe he'd do better >to drive off the cops and then try to escape before they come back. >Few Jews anticipated that the internment they were sent to was going >to be any worse than how it turned out for the Japanese Americans. >So if you want to say that the Japanese was not justified in shooting >because the camps were likely to be safe, the same would apply to >the Jew. ... I didn't find out about the Japaneese concentration camps until after I saw the karate kid and had it explained to me. As I had most of my high school career ahead of me at the time, that much info should have made me aware of the lessons covering them in my various high school history classes. Nearly every history class I have had has either stopped sometime around the end of the civil war, stayed in Oklahoma, stopped around WWI with the United States held as the hero of the event, or glossed over the entire Japaneese concentration camp story. And I thought my teachers were fairly open minded. And we fault the Germans and Japaneese for not owning up to thier wartime misdeeds. Incidently, I didn't know that many Jews were turned away from the united states borders during WWII either until an article came out about it in one of the weeklies.

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RE: Key Escrow Papers
by Pat Farrell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

John Young <jya(a)pipeline.com> writes: > Perhaps someone, Pat Farrell or another, would be willing > to make them available on a homepage or ftp site. If so we > will send them over. I will gladly put up any nist-meeting papers, comments, drafts, etc. on my webpage. Please send them to me. (pfarrell(a)netcom.com) I am even willing to type in some, but that is known to cause typos, as I can't type, and even spellcheckers can't tell real words such as 'sham' from 'shame' Right now, I'm pretty down on the two days, but lets keep the information flowing. Pat Pat Farrell Grad Student http://www.isse.gmu.edu/students/pfarrell Info. Systems & Software Engineering, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA PGP key available on homepage #include <standard.disclaimer>

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TWIST Re: Socio-Economic Cults
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:02 PM 8/28/97 -0700, Steve Schear wrote: > >>Maybe not, but how about the suggestion earlier to shoot people who >>are painting graffiti on your property? What happens if someone gets >>shot in that situation, or in some other gray area? > >This is an ideal value-added extension to all those surveillence TV cameras >springing up, especially on private property. With a bit of technology the >cameras and guns could automatically identify graffiti activity and alert a >security person or the resident. Tranc-type guns would be mounted on the >camera platforms. The artists would often be found facedown on the >pavement when the police arrive. So the police get to your house only to find an uncounsious St. Benard face down in the pavement because your security system identified him as a graffitte artist spraypainting something on the side of your house while wearing a weird fur coat.

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by que11331236＠compuserve.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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hello
by Alexis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

hello, Can anybody teach me the abc's on Hacking, Cracking, Phranking, Cryptomography, I know that to be a good hacker you have to know all, but speciallize on one. Or do any of you are in the LA area that willing to teach me face to face. Thank you Alexis.

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Re: ncash? (was Re: pgp details)
by Feanor 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Aug 26, 13:47, Mike wrote: } Subject: Re: ncash? (was Re: pgp details) > Lucky Green wrote: > >It doesn't provide payee anonymity, coins are neither divisible nor > transferable, why do you bother? > > Could it be... because Chaum won't license? That's not nescessary, actually. All you need is for the mint to put _no_ information at with the coin except it's serial number and a signatrue (possibly a timestamp as well). Voila, anonymity. I was thinking of implementing a low-cost server ofthis type, but there's the trust problem: this nym is relatively new... > Any ecash is better than none, and until Chaum's patent expire we > probably won't have an ecash system with all the bells and whistles. > Just consider that Mark Twain has been up for two years and they still > don't have a client that implements crash recovery (recover your money > if your disk crashes)! At last count they had all of 32 merchants signed > up. There might be other reasons for this: have you looked at their _fees_??? Holy crap! That's the only reason I don't have an account. They're charging top dollar for every aspect of a system that has it's only overhead in minimal amounts of CPU time. I was thinking of having my server charge only on deposit of real money and only a tiny amount (like 1-2%). I.e. no charge at all to open an account to recieve money...

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