December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Cypherpunks Moderated: Avoid This Thread
by Donald M. Kitchen 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anon wrote: >"According to the group's moderator, who prefers to remain anonymous, > `The most important means to the defense of privacy is encryption. > Cypherpunks are therefore devoted to cryptography. They wish to learn > about it, to teach it and to implement it.'" > >Ok, since when is the Cypherpunk's mailing list moderated? Ummm, anyone seen L.D. lately? Just wondering. Don

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Follow-up to sci.crypt posting that prompted NYT article
by rubin＠faline.bellcore.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Yesterday, a New York Times article cited a posting by several graduate students at Berkeley about the insecurity of the Internet. We found the sci.crypt posting very interesting and relevant because we spent a good portion of the summer working to address the same problem. Namely, detection of the malicious (or other) modification of an executable in transit over an untrusted network. In particular, we believe that our system could be used to solve the NFS problem mentioned in the posting from Berkeley. Our paper can be accessed at ftp://thumper.bellcore.com/pub/rubin/stretch.ps Avi Rubin <rubin(a)bellcore.com> Trent Jaeger <jaegert(a)eecs.umich.edu>

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Re: PC disk wipe software
by GreggMan＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a message dated 95-10-09 12:34:33 EDT, you write: >>PC Tools has a wipe program that will either wipe individual files, or >>wipe all unallocated diskspace. It also allows you to choose the level >>of wipe (single overwrite, multiple, etc). > >There has been considerable discussion on the MCIP list about how most >*Mac* programs that purport to do this, like Burn, for example, leave stuff >over in disk blocks. My understanding is that this is not a trivial >problem, and it occurs in MUSH-DOS as well.... > >Cheers, >Bob Hettinga > > Actually not a problem for mess-DOS: just overwrite to the next multiple of the allocation unit size. Trivial indeed. What you must *not* do is just write to the end of current file ... you have to extend. Good idea too is to flush file buffers/reset disk subsystem before the next file writes so that buffer garbage doesn't get stuck in at end of last sector(s) of new files.

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Re: PC disk wipe software
by GreggMan＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a message dated 95-10-09 22:07:18 EDT, you write: > >Archive data off to tape, low level format drive using the bios hd utils, >reformat drive, restore data. I find the non graphical AMI bios very useful >for this. > >Doing anything else fails to remove the old data on partially used but valid >blocks. > > Why do people insist this is the case? ABsolutely not true under MS-DOS. I haven't personally verified under a VxD file system (like 32bit disk access) but ask yourself: if I expand (by appending new garbage data) the current file to the next allocation-unit boundary, will that overwrite the tail blocks of the current file???? Folks: it's sooooo easy.

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Re: PC disk wipe software
by GreggMan＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

MS-DOS? Selectively overwrite data not alloc'ed to files? Try this: I do it all the time: open a file for output write garbage to file until the disk fills delete file do it again ... what could be simpler? This will fill all unused allocation units with garbage. Do it until you feel comfortable.

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Re: Pointer to 10/9/95 EE Times Article
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 7:30 PM 10/11/95, Anonymous wrote: >"According to the group's moderator, who prefers to remain anonymous, > `The most important means to the defense of privacy is encryption. > Cypherpunks are therefore devoted to cryptography. They wish to learn > about it, to teach it and to implement it.'" > >Ok, since when is the Cypherpunk's mailing list moderated? > >It is apparent that the author, Larry Lange, has never studied the >list closely or he would know how amusing this sounds... > >(Geez, if he had ever read one of Tim May's posts on the subject... :-) I have a theory about this. First, I recognize the style of the quote, as no doubt many of you do. Second, my guess is that the reporter contacted the person being quoted, asked "What is your role?," couldn't interpret the answer given, and so used the only term he understood. Namely, leader or moderator. Anarchies are tough for hierarchical minds to grasp. --Tim May Views here are not the views of my Internet Service Provider or Government. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Markoff (was: NYT on Internet Flaws)
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

(I counted 7 entities copied on the original of this, and have trimmed the distribution list down to just the Cypherpunks list.) At 10:23 AM 10/12/95, Mark wrote: >>> Not possible. Reporters don't call you for a quote and then send you a draft >>> of the article for your approval before they publish. They call for a quote, >>> write their article, and publish, not asking for approval. >> >>Depends how well you train them ! > >Lets train them. Someone post their email addresses so we can send them all >the RFCs for their education. :) They need to know what the hell they are >talking about. > >I wonder if the biology lists get this, some wannabe hero posting how billions >of people are infected with deadly toxins just because some researcher >mentioned a well known fact that an amount of various bacteria and toxins >exist in all living mammals. John Markoff knows more about crypto and security and knows more of the folks working in crypto and security than most of us on this list. In addition to breaking the Clipper story (*), he also has broken several of the most important crypto/security stories the Net has seen. (* Though several of us, including myself, saw the precursors to Clipper many months prior to its announcement.) I urge folks to check out his many stories on crypto and security in the NYT before dismissing him as some ignoramus that needs educating. (Not that we all don't need more educating, often enough.) Disagreeing with the tone of a story is fine, even disagreeing with the basic message or facts is normal. After all, we disagree on this list about many things (witness the MITM debates). We also now have commerical interests represented on this list in fairly important ways, so this often raises the stakes--and the temperature--in disputes. But disputes are best handled by arguments as to the points in dispute, not by insults about the ignorance or cluelessness of the folks involved. --Tim May Views here are not the views of my Internet Service Provider or Government. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Commercialism on Cypherpunks
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We face interesting times. It's apparent that the Cypherpunks list is now becoming even more of a hangout for reporters, commercial vendors, and those seeking advance knowledge of security holes and whatnot...maybe even a few stock traders looking for tips :-}. It was this way to some extent a few years ago, with Steven Levy, John Markoff, Kevin Kelly, Julian Dibbell, and others looking to our list for stimulating ideas for stories. Now, the time between something being posted here and its headline appearance in one of the major papers is even shorter. The "electronic commerce" business is heating up, and basic flaws and limitations are obviously big news. And the list has grown in recent months, as publicity has increased. In addition to the usual corporate connections that people have because some corporation employs them, we have people _directly_ involved in several crypto-related or security-oriented businesses, including Netscape Communications, Digicash, First Virtual, Enterprise Integration Technologies, RSADSI, Verity, Intuit, and so on. And a bunch of folks of course from Sun, SGI, Apple, Microsoft, etc. (Sorry if I've left out your company.) Clearly some of these groups have conflicting goals and approaches. Some have different exposures to security holes. Some of these electronic commerce companies even stand to gain at the expense of others when security problems are found. Some of the commercial folks are concerned that the freewheeling, anarchic, "say anything" nature of the Cypherpunks list is sometimes reflecting badly on their companies. Some are concerned that reporters are reading the list to find leads for stories. Well, get used to it! (Lest you think I was going to pull a Rodney King and say "Can't we all just get along?," I'm taking the anarchist route.) People will say what they wish. Sometimes they'll speak inaccurately, sometimes without all of the facts. Such is life. There is no moderator, no leader, contrary to what at least one reporter seems to think. And it's a good thing, as I could otherwise see that moderator or leader someday being served with papers because of some insult or denigration about a company or its products posted here. With the "electronic commerce" market heating up so much, and with our list becoming one of the several de facto watering holes where gossip and G-2 gets exchanged, there are bound to be conflicts and alleged damages to reputations. Think of our list as a kind of Casablanca, a "free city" not controlled by any side. I'm "shocked, simply shocked," that anyone would think it could be anything else. --Tim, owner since 1992 of "Rick's Place" Views here are not the views of my Internet Service Provider or Government. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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responce to graphic encryption replies
by privsoft＠ix.netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

First, I would like to address the issue of David C.'s spam of the usenet. Mr. Clavedetcher does not work for nor does he represent us in any way. After receiving word from Cypherpunks that he had spamed the list I personally contacted him and informed him to cease and desist these actions or face legal action. We at PrivaSoft do not conduct nor condone such actions on the Net. During my conversation with him I discovered he was a zealous individual looking to make good on our rebate program, as per our Web page. If you should receive any further spams from him or any other over zealous netuser, Please contact me immediately. Also if you could inform me of other news groups/ lists he spammed so I may contact them as well regarding this. Thanx. Second I would like to begin addressing several of the issues raised by my inquiry of Graphic Encryption. Firstly Graphic Encryption is the scrambling of a graphic image using an encryption algorithm. In PrivaSoft's case the Image is that of your document, including all text and graphics contained therein. Syntel Sciences, the distributor of PrivaSoft, does not wish to publish its algorithm at this time, however if there is any question as to the strength of PrivaSoft and its Graphic Encryption engine, I would be happy to post a sample document for you to try and crack. Also, I have recently put together an info sheet on the Security provided by PrivaSoft which I can post if there is interest. One of the key strengths, as I see it, of graphic encryption is that during decryption via hacking, there is an added time element when a human interface is required to verify the product, ( since it is a graphic picture being produced, regular checksums for intelligible words can't be used sans implementing OCR), even if this is only 10 milliseconds per try this is increases the time to crack exponentially beyond that of a data encrypted document of similar key length and algorithm strength. Once again I would like to apologize on behalf of Syntel Sciences - PrivaSoft for the nuisance caused by the spam done by David C. and I wish to reiterate that such actions are not condoned by us and will not be tolerated. Steve Orrin Mgr. Tech. Services, PrivaSoft ************************************************* PrivaSoft TM * Distributed by Syntel Sciences, Inc. USA * 1877 Springfield Ave PO BOX 600 * Maplewood NJ 07040-0600 * Tel. 201-378-8865 Fax. 201-762-3742 * Http://www.privasoft.com/privasoft * E-mail: privsoft(a)ix.netcom.com * *************************************************

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Privsoft
by lethin＠ai.mit.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I hope Mr. Orrin has his asbestos codpiece well positioned.

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