December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

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by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Top 10 Ways to Make a Grouchy Old CypherPunk Smile -------------------------------------------------- #10) Find his shoes for him. #9) Buy Kent Crispin a Dr. Kevorkian gift-certificate. #8) Nuke Washington DC #7) Send ten copies of this back to Vulis. #6) Shoot a Fed. #5) Shoot David Downey. #4) Heavily spam the clueless number of AOLers asking to be on the list. #3) Hang a disemboweled Paul Pomes from a tree. #2) Prank call John Gilmore to tell him what a cocksucker he is. #1) [This space reserved for T.C. May]

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by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:23 AM 8/29/97 +1000, you wrote: >The aol idiots are a joke right ?? Someone keeps faking the address ?? > >Or are aol'ers this stupid ?? If they are faking, it's a nice forgery. But I doubt it. AOLers are usually this dumb, while for some odd reasons, some smart AOLers exist. Of course, consider they aren't too smart if they stick with an Orwellian online service that treats it's customers like shit. AOLers, Rennie, are kinda like newborns, they make a hell of a lot of noise, but they don't know too much.

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Re: Sigh Re: not a flame please read and think about this
by anonymous-remailer＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Pat F A R R E L L wrote: / Subject line is bull*&^&, IMHO, of course Hey everyone has an opinion. In message Sat, 9 Sep 1995 16:40:00 UTC, an116512(a)anon.penet.fi writes: > to make my point: why is pat farrel helping the nsa and nist make /Learn to spell my name. It is on my .sig, my keys, and in my userid. /We blockheaded, Irish Catholic Americans are damn proud of our name. /Farrell's (along with other cheap Irish labor) built the railroads /from Chicago west. Please spell it correctly, even if you are flaming me. F A R R E L L M O U S E > hey why not just write the escorw code for them!!!??? > is mr farrel just being naive or is does he realize who hes working for? > sorry to single him out but this is just an example of what im talking > about. /I doubt that this clown deserves a response, but... Then shut up. /There were a number of cypherpunks there. I can't speak for all, /but I expect movites include: /- attempting to clarify vague and confusing wording so we could /understand what they wanted. 'k /- seeing that working with them, rather than yelling at their stupidity, /has a higher chance of getting results. Beware of compromise, you become the rag puller for the rapist. / - we got to meet influential folks from industry who agree with us. 'k /- some of us aren't completely apposed to CKE. I think it has value. /If we could convert their plan for GAK into CKE, it would be a big win, /well worth the effort. Yea right. / - they are going to promulgate a FIPS PUB standard next week, whether I /like it or not, and whether I help or not. It is better to have that /standard understandable and clear than fuzzy and subject to subective /evaluation. Clear as any government forced standard can be. / - getting preposterous misstatements into the formal Federal Register so / we can quote it back to them in the congressional hearings. Mr Geoff / Greivelddinger's words should be handy to quote, for one example. 'k /- there are lots more, but I doubt that I can convince this clown. Then shut up.

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Re: H/W v S/W encryption Constitutional challenge --The Next Generation
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 06:05 PM 8/29/97 +0000, Attila T. Hun wrote: ... > your suggestion of an interpretive language is a good idea if it > creates an easily understood body of code. perl? powerful, but > even more cryptic than C --sometimes I think perl is too powerful > <g>. > ... What about Cobol. I hated it and have fortunately forgotten everything that I learned. ( hated having to make sure I had to start on the right space for this bit or that bit, it was my first experience with such constraints, I had to learn on a hobbled editor/compiler, the for sale version which was not included with the book cost more, I already had the computer theory basics and so didn't need to learn about I/O basics, basic diagram of computers, flow charts, etc., I hated trying to type in all that extra as I am a firm believer in the use the letters until you run out of letters for variable names school.) What I do remember was that it was described to us, (the class), as being designed so that it was an easy read. If you chose your variable names right, supposedly anyone could follow it. The language is compiled which means that although it might be harder to convince the judge that it is speach, it will run faster. The language is well distributed, so is about equal to C and others in that reguard. The language was originally popular due to the DOD, which required a Cobol compiler bwe available for every computer they bought for a while. (Oh, the history that you learn in Software Engineering Class.) This last fact makes it more of an insult to those who claim national security as the reason for suppression. Whatever the language, it would have to be well documented in the code so that a layman could follow it easily enough. If the language could be written in a scripting language designed for the average computer user, all the better. Could PGP5.0 be rewritten in Hypertalk for Hypercard for Macintosh? That language was designed to be readable by anyone. The program would be as slow as molassis, ten times longer in the source, but still. Merely my suggestion. I like C as well, though I'm very rusty, having not written anything of length since the end of the semester in which I took the class, and then no more then two pages of source per assignment.

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Dishonest banks & ecash
by Michael Froomkin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've been doing some ecash reading. The threat model is the dishonest user or 3rd party who tries to mint the stuff. Any work been done on the problem of the dishonest bank (a la Bcci) that tries to mint the stuff? A. Michael Froomkin | +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax) Associate Professor of Law | mfroomki(a)umiami.ir.miami.edu U. Miami School of Law | P.O. Box 248087 | It's hot here. And humid. Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA | See (soon to move to its real home): http://www.law.miami.edu/~mfroomki

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Bizdos citizenship?
by Joel McNamara 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In correspondence with someone outside the US regarding ITAR regulations, the remark was made that Jim Bizdos was Greek and not a U.S. citizen. Is this statement in the same class as an Elvis sighting? Or if it is true, what impact would ITAR have on foreign nationals working for a US company involved with export restricted crypto? Please don't get carried away and turn this into a Net rumor. I'm just curious if anyone on the list can confirm or deny the citizenship comment. Joel McNamara joelm(a)eskimo.com - http://www.eskimo.com/~joelm for PGP key Thomas Jefferson used strong crypto, shouldn't you?

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Net Worth, net Work
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Now, kiddies, don't forget to swallow your milk before you read this. Don't want to blow it all out your nose... Cheers, Bob --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 12:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 12:00:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Agre <pagre(a)weber.ucsd.edu> To: rre(a)weber.ucsd.edu Subject: Net Worth, net Work Resent-From: rre(a)weber.ucsd.edu Reply-To: rre-maintainers(a)weber.ucsd.edu X-URL: http://communication.ucsd.edu/pagre/rre.html X-Mailing-List: <rre(a)weber.ucsd.edu> archive/latest/1664 X-Loop: rre(a)weber.ucsd.edu Precedence: list Resent-Sender: rre-request(a)weber.ucsd.edu =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This message was forwarded through the Red Rock Eater News Service (RRE). Send any replies to the original author, listed in the From: field below. You are welcome to send the message along to others but please do not use the "redirect" command. For information on RRE, including instructions for (un)subscribing, send an empty message to rre-help(a)weber.ucsd.edu =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 00:09:08 -0700 From: Susan Evoy <sevoy(a)Sunnyside.COM> Subject: Net Worth, Net Work (2)- with directions [...] Please feel free to forward this to colleagues who may be interested in the topics of this conference. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Computer Professionals for Social Responsibilty * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Net Worth, Net Work: Technology & Values for the Digital Age Saturday and Sunday October 4 & 5 University of California - Berkeley Dwinelle Hall The "information highway" as a business model has generated major questions concerning privacy, security and free speech. It's clear that digitization does more than just turn analog activities into ones and zeroes. Many aspects of our society are greatly affected -- how we conduct business and how we work. This conference will focus on the burgeoning digital economy, especially its impact on wealth and jobs. We are moving into a new era for the workplace and some believe that we are reaching "the end of work," as we know it. This change has been compared by some to the social impact of the industrial revolution. The "digital revolution" is leading to both predictable and unforeseen transformations. Net Worth, Net Work: Technology & Values for the Digital Age will explore the many aspects of this epic social transformation. THE CONFERENCE AGENDA PANELS: Saturday, October 4 9:00 a.m. - 5:30 p.m. THE TECHNOLOGIES OF RESPONSIBLE BUSINESS What are the technologies that will make digital commerce work in a socially responsible manner? Nathaniel Borenstein of First Virtual and a panel of digital commerce experts will present an overview of the tools of the digital age and freewheeling discussion of their responsible use. ACCESS FOR ALL New technologies are rapidly changing what people need to know to compete effectively in the job market. It is increasingly evident that the technology revolution threatens to leave whole populations behind --despite improved access to computers in our communities. Many predict the long-term result will be a new generation of Americans mired in low-paying, menial jobs. This panel, organized by Madeline Stanionis of Access to Software for All People (ASAP), will explore access to technology as the basis for economic opportunity. FAIRLY FREE: Compensating Creators and Maximizing Access As the slogan goes, "information wants to be free" -- and in digital technologies there is a plethora of information. Computer libertarians sometimes find themselves at odds with commercial publishers, and in a sometimes uneasy relationship with creators -- writers, photographers, graphic artists -- who want to be fairly compensated when others profit from their work. What is the public's stake in translating traditional principles of copyright, piracy and fair use into the media environment of the 21st century? SHOW ME THE MONEY The economics of the digital age are quite different from that of our waning industrial world. From the "market of one" to global banking, value is no longer measured in tons or shiploads, but in much more difficult to measure units like "attention" and "clickstream." Speculation about the future in this area rivals some of the greatest science fiction ever written. The question is not only where are we going, but is there anything we do about it? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Saturday, October 4 6:30 - 8:00 p.m. GALA EVENT Berkeley Conference Center 2105 Bancroft Way, Berkeley Cocktail reception honoring Dr. PETER NEUMANN, 1997 recipient of CPSR's Norbert Wiener Award for his outstanding contributions to the field of Risk and Reliability in Computer Science. Reception tickets may be purchased without registering for the conference, for $30. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Sunday, October 5 9:00 a.m. -12 noon WORKSHOPS: EXPLORING DIGITAL COMMERCE Twelve workshops will give hands-on information on such topics as creating community access; how will we work in the digital workplace; how will we define work-value and compensation; and many more important issues. For updated conference information, check our conference webpage at: http://www.cpsr.org/dox/home.html * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Sunday, October 5 1:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m. CPSR ANNUAL MEETING FREE AND OPEN TO EVERYONE Reports from the CPSR board and staff. Envisioning our Future - CPSR's Strategic Plan * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Conference Sponsors Corporate: Interval Research Corporation Internet Travel Network Pacific Bell Co-Sponsoring Organizations: Department of Computer Science, UCB School of Information Management and Systems, UCB International Computer Science Institute National Writer's Union Access to Software for All People * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * AIR: United Airlines is the official airline of the conference. For a discount rate, call 800-521-4041 and refer to Meeting ID Code: 520YA HOTEL: Some rooms have been reserved at the Shattuck Hotel, in downtown Berkeley, a few blocks from the campus at $69 for Singles, and $79 for Doubles, plus 12% tax. To reserve, call by September 19th. Call in CA: 800-742-8825, Out-of-State: 800-237-5359, and refer to CPSR. DIRECTIONS: University of California - Berkeley visitor and parking information is available at: http://www.urel.berkeley.edu/urel_1/VisitorsCenter/visitor.html. PARKING: Parking on weekends is $3 (all in quarters in most lots) per day in any parking area not posted as "restricted." Parking behind Dwinelle Hall can be reached from Oxford Street by taking Cross Campus Drive (between Center Street and Allston Way). A campus parking map is available at: http://geogweb.berkeley.edu/CampusMaps.html. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * REGISTRATION Name_________________________________________________________ Address_______________________________________________________ City_________________________________ State________ Zip___________ Telephone__(_____)_________________ E-mail _________________________________ Payment method: Check___Visa___MC___ Card #________________________________ Exp. Date_____ Pre- registration (By 9/26) Late or On site CPSR members $65______ $75______ Non member $90______ $100______ New or Reactivating CPSR membership & registration $95______ $105______ Low income/student $30______ $35______ Wiener Award Ceremony rate for conference registrants $5______ $10______ OR to attend without registering for conference $30 _______ Additional donation to further CPSR's work $________ Total enclosed: $________ Scholarships available in limited quantity. Contact CPSR for information. Send completed registration form with payment to: CPSR, P.O. Box 717, Palo Alto, CA 94302 > -- > Susan Evoy * Deputy Director > http://www.cpsr.org/home.html > Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility > P.O. Box 717 * Palo Alto * CA * 94302 > Phone: (650) 322-3778 * Fax: (650) 322-4748 * Email: >evoy(a)cpsr.org --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

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Re: Internet commerce mtg, Denver
by Greg Broiles 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- L. Detweiler's tentacle Vlad Nuri writes: > [...] > the rep told me something interesting: he said that every > Bell phone book is actually "seeded" with dummy names > so they can detect copyright infringers. if you come out > with a business directory, these Bells will just scan for > the fake names that they have inserted into their own listings. > if they find them, supposedly they can show them to a copyright > judge and he will immediately close down your operation and > fine you, almost no questions asked. I didn't know how much > of this really happens (the legal stuff sounded questionable > to me) but it is an interesting "real world" instance of > copyright terrorism prevention that the "information liberation > front" would have to contend with. While he's correct that publishers of data compilations do use dummy entries to track [mis]use of their data, he's incorrect when he asserts that it's possible to get a copyright on an ordinary white-pages style directory. (_Feist v. Rural Telephone_, 499 US 340 (1991), http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/classics/499_340v.htm ). This practice occurs when mailing lists are sold, and in the drafting of maps (non-existent streets or sections of streets may be added, or changed in an unremarkable way). It's also possible (and getting easier with laser printers, etc) to generate apparently indentical but distinguishable documents for use where disclosure of the documents is controlled; the distinguishing parts (perhaps a misspelled word or other apparent typo, or a change in line spacing between paragraphs, or altered line breaks) can then be used to trace a recovered "leaked" document to the person who received it originally. Where the documents are digital (or digitizable), two or recipients could collude to 'diff' their copies, and find the barium data; but a savvy document-distributor could generate copies with multiple ID-bits, such that any two copies might have differences between the two, but barium data that's the same yet different from the other participants. So those two colluders round up a third recipient [...] It's basically a form of very-low-bandwidth text-only steganography. Of course, we're wandering into FAQ territory; isn't there something in the Cyphernomicon about digital signatures for physical items being used as proof of source? (e.g., you'll know that the expensive motorcycle part you just bought really *is* from Harley-Davidson, not a cheaper part placed in a knockoff Harley box) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMFIOtX3YhjZY3fMNAQGlwAP+KhhBK1MGDvsNizH5Pu7XsqQg6rPxnCp2 q5YRZrQyVktit8hK+TbHcodAvG7IWK2vFuI1y80dFx5sKfAqjLU81rth7Pad7nRm USUYUIxlvnaO7dOWUPMsEaaad2uZpLn/ALoTwXsYqzT2YjPyl1/YYLTHkmK/PHUI 5C6yJNKtpAY= =CwZF -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Certificates/Anonymity/Policy/True Names
by Alan Pugh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> What about when the CA signing key is stolen, factored, or otherwise falls > into the wrong hands, thereby possibly making every signature made by the CA > worthless, or at least questionable? > > I assume liability will be based on the CA's efforts to ensure the integrity > of the signatures it makes (and therefore the confidentiality of the secret > key components), but what constitutes due diligence? As we all know, > security measures cover a very wide range and can reach ridiculous > proportions on both ends of the spectrum... How much security will be > 'enough' from a legal standpoint...? an excellent point, and one that i'd not seriously considered until i saw your post. given today's legal climate, assuring the confidentiality of a ca's key would be pretty expensive. i suppose burning cd-roms with all transactions would help to document all transactions, but would not be definitive as far as the signatures go. any document signed with the key would really have to be considered valid if the signature itself is to really mean anything in a legal sense. if one were to allege that a signature is not valid, even though it checked out cryptologically, how could one defend against a charge that the secret key had been compromised. you cannot prove a negative. obviously, ianal, but i would think it would be reasonably easy to convince at least one jury member that there is a reasonable dought that the key had been compromised. then again, it might be similar to a claim that a signature has been forged. i think there could be a danger of allowing the confidence in a given piece of crypto to unduly influence a jury of a document's authenticity when the key _had_ been compromised. the 'gee wiz' factor could be fairly significant among juries. given statements like 'you could take all the computers on the planet and let them crunch on it for a billion years would be needed', a jury might miss issues of security. fwiw, my 2 cents... ********************************************* * / Only God can see the whole * * O[%\%\%{<>===========================- * * \ Mandlebrot Set at Once! * * amp * * <0003701548(a)mcimail.com> * * <alan.pugh(a)internetmci.com> * ********************************************* Key fingerprint = A7 97 70 0F E2 5B 95 7C DB 7C 2B BF 0F E1 69 1D

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PGP in UK
by anonymous-remailer＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I heard something rather disturbing the other day from someone I do business with. I've been telling this company for 18 months or so about the advantages of PGP and email rather than faxes, and they finally tried it, liked it, and decided to use it a month or so ago. Last week they got a visit from the Department of Trade of Industry and MI5 (or is it MI6?) telling them to stop using PGP or they might find difficulties getting export licences for their products in future. The visitors wouldn't say how they knew this company had been using it. The person who told me about this also said something about a Department of Trade & Industry paper which mentioned that the British Government was going to insist on key escrow for encryption. I had hoped to get a copy of this, but he can't find it at the moment. I'll post the text when I get it if anyone's interested. Anyone else in the UK heard anything about this? - -- B. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.i iQEVAgUBMFGPfeHVHXeXphJJAQFJ0Af/Svh0ifULgpEuauSBPFreDDJoa/a1gcPe ya3CjOde9kVuN0IkBHFubO18MrAO6WbwlhVa/X/pjG4vbSahonpzmgHHfkVW20Gh qlhBwFLElTmOgspSjHJ74sYNUM2YZ+AKOyNwW4ix6woJ0WL0NP+cV8CZv4tdEH4l EI3/FuoFccbkKMk7QYoRPOyj5FI4GiFxVsg1GFOU3r83bxfJDfU2yZdImEBx/Nlc gteizqFTF/QiKckl6f5NzCBzaoIcMw0VLN8dAGLqzDycJtFqGdOPgvgSt1LwXKBs +zJM5Z/laubYm5SiEPy4oVz9N3lT4EOzEtdMEoiSC6IiSDSaURkEAA== =GiY0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.i mQENAi8KzVoAAAEH/2gPfD2Xdw1nDAXtMH/F5iCMrwdXHXolEfOjRP59QP1Yodhb L+NGSNls67+H1us5PP5EpHDbHRy66ExgRK7XdZ/2qz0SsbTG+R6pRIILmMfgd3Nj M6uq1DehdxWPdp4PMC9LNrG2V9QrRGPgpHhr3iDfy+p6JTjW8XCYUXn5POt0wBs2 n/vlowjLf9dVYwUKP58V9gokNsFlGcB08gEbxKa9Y2X7zB3BAlywPVdKVh+BOTCK z1Sofx9Wup0MEXEDEESLDSq/634hzzVx6Kt54cZBbi5nAdPHWlGHZl5vU93A3jPE fh59JXsCZmWKLXMjZtjcIJYkC4hC4dUdd5emEkkABRG0DEIuIERlIExhIFBheokB FQIFEC8g7yzh1R13l6YSSQEBD+4H/ir8R4iw1tWLUuxz6etmV99OhMUYoI5lQnxz 9KARQf4eD3xHPoMw6tHLKOUR8xYS9i2RmkhJrPRzCfD5OKSOBEHuIQEt/+dcbCuw 0fxn9NrU7NjFWwWKQ+0jYikN3hfIWcPmGtyhQ0KSrGfUDo5+rJr5Cy4U6eOooepv gYniecNNVAzQ2KDiWTOZ5zqG3zBAYj6uw8LHvBR1qol2YcJ4s02c4GdAZmzEq49s nDBortKfWUAxZkESBt2tMx8gYq6b38evYJBLXOqEN5Lt/5zf0nG1u0BEWBLaCj55 y8lh1KolVOu808tX9blOrjqwEB12vngjXzf7hHWohrGrrQVT2N4= =5qEt -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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