December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Phone call for Mr. Doligez, was Re: SSL challenge -- broken !
by Dave Crocker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:32 AM 8/16/95, Jason Weisberger wrote: >like using a "security envelope" to mail cash or putting the club on your >car. It presents just enough of an obstacle to keep honest people honest. As the Mitnick experience shows, the vulnerability of the providers' host systems is a concern not addressed by link-oriented schemes such as SSL. Longer keys for SSL would not have improved the protection on the 30,000 credit card numbers he stole. d/ -------------------- Dave Crocker +1 408 246 8253 Brandenburg Consulting fax: +1 408 249 6205 675 Spruce Dr. page: +1 408 581 1174 Sunnyvale, CA 94086 USA dcrocker(a)brandenburg.com

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SSL Challenge - Some thoughts
by goedel＠tezcat.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

1. What kind of pseudo random number generator does Netscape use? 2. If it is a cryptographically secure sequence, doesn't that run up against ITAR restrictions? 3. Can we improve upon the brute force algorithm in a non-probabilistic way? 4. If we are happy with a 5% yield, we can restrict ourselves to the same 5% of the key space for each message. DJK

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Phone call for Mr. Doligez, was Re: SSL challenge -- broken !
by rah＠shipwright.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >SSL challenge -- broken Indeed, it seems so, and the feeding frenzy in the press has begun. I zinged this over from cypherpunks to www-buyinfo this morning, and this afternoon I got a rather interesting call from a reporter. I told him about ITARs, its effect on internet commerce and the silliness of a 40 bit key, etc. He wanted to know if I knew Damien's phone number(!), and I told him to have ATT put one of their translators-for-hire on the line and call INRIA, Ecole Polytechnique, or Ecole Normale Superieure, and track him down there. Meanwhile, if Mr. Doligez sees this, call Alan Beck at 619-625-0700, or email him at alan(a)tgc.com. I can see the headlines now: "Netscape Security Broken, Stock Falls". Make-a the Ganglia Twitch. Haven't had this much fun since the hogs ate my little brother... Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Shipwright Development Corporation, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA (617) 323-7923 "Reality is not optional." --Thomas Sowell >>>>Phree Phil: Email: zldf(a)clark.net http://www.netresponse.com/zldf <<<<<

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SmartCash
by nobody＠valhalla.phoenix.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Alliance formed to develop first nationwide smart card company New York, Aug. 16 (Reuters) - The United States is a step closer to cashless commerce. Fourteen banks and financial instutions said Wednesday that they will form a company to develop and issue the first debit card that can be used nationwide instead of cash for purchases under $20. The new company, to be called SmartCash, will help speed the implementation of so-called "smart card" technology that uses a micro-processor chip embedded in the card to store vast amounts of information, including improved security features. "The chip gives the card an amazing abitity to contain stored information," said Nancy Elder, a spokeswoman for MasterCard International Inc., one of the companies participating in the creation of SmartCash. In addition to Mastercard International, other founding companies include Banc One Corp., Bank of America, Chemical Bank Corp., CoreStates Financial Corp., NationsBank Corp. and Wachovia Corp. However, participation in SmartCash will be open to all U.S. financial institutions and card providers, the companies said. "SmartCash represents a shared vision and a shared commitment to deliver the increased convenience, flexibility and efficiency of electronic cash to U.S. consumers, merchants and banks," said Hatim Tyabji, chairman of VeriFone Inc., a pioneer in stored value technology and another founder of SmartCash. The SmartCash card also will be standardised with similar efforts already underway for smart cards developed by credit card companies Europay, MasterCard and Visa. "Standardized specifications are all woven into the process. If you use your card in New York, it will be the same as if you use it on the West Coast," Elder said. The stored value application, one of the many uses of the card's embedded chip, enables funds from the cardholder's bank or credit-card account to be loaded into the card from an automated teller machine or from one of the terminals now under developement specifically for the SmartCash card. Elder said the companies have not identified what the cost to the consumer would be, but noted, "the consumer is going to have to see the value in it for them to want to use it." She also said there was a potential for the card to be expanded for use by those without bank accounts, who could credit the card in person at various locations. Elder added that the demand for such a versatile card was the driving force behind the broad alliance of companies already signed on to the SmartCash plan. "Sixty percent of consumers surveyed in the U.S. said they would be willing to switch banks to get the use of stored value (cards)," Elder said. Amy Brinkley, executive vice president at NationsBank, said the venture showed "unprecedented industry cooperation to develop an innovative financial product." SmartCash will combine assets and staff of the founding companies and pursue technology being developed by MasterCard, VeriFone, Electronic Payment Services Inc., and privately held Gemplus. A pilot programme is already under development in Delaware that will be overseen by Wilmington Trust and Electronic Payment and other regional pilot programmes were likely to spring up around the country next year, Elder said. -----

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Re: SSL challenge -- broken !
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 04:39 PM 8/16/95 -0500, you wrote: >> I haven't seen any news stories about this on the wire >> services. Someone would have to write a story about it first before >> people would know... > >I've suggested this to a few reporters I know.. It's worth suggesting this _carefully_ so the spin's right. For instance "Oh, no, Netscape lets Hackers suck all the money out of your credit cards" would be bad :-) On the other hand, "The US Government's Evil Plans to block encryption are limiting Netscape's export products to an encryption system already broken by a French university. This means you can send credit card numbers safely to American web sites, but not to foreign ones - like the airline or hotel reservations you were making for your vacation, or those Irish handcrafts or bottle of Scotch you were ordering, or that Hong Kong magazine you were subscribing to, or the CD from that band in Budapest that had the great sound samples out there. And when you were donating to that Amazon rainforest conservation group, the NSA's arbitrary export rules may have just helped the Colombian drug cartels rip off your credit card." #--- # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, Freelance Information Architect, stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # Phone +1-510-247-0664 Pager/Voicemail 1-408-787-1281 #--- "The fat man rocks out Hinges fall off Heaven's door "Come on in," says Bill" Wavy Gravy's haiku for Jerry

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Re: SmartCash (NewsClip)
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>She also said there was a potential for the card to be >expanded for use by those without bank accounts, who >could credit the card in person at various locations. Or even those who don't exist. Sounds like real cash to me. Note that 20% of the population have no bank accounts. DCF "Coercion-based systems only work if the person coerced is immobile, stupid, or weak."

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WSJ on SSL Crack
by John Young 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Wall Street Journal, August 17, 1995, p. B3. French Hacker Cracks Netscape Code, Shrugging Off U.S. Encryption Scheme By Jared Sandberg A computer hacker in France has breached the encryption scheme of new Netscape software for navigating the Internet, the global computer network. The breach underscores flaws in U.S. rules restricting the export of more-sophisticated security measures. The hacker, a French student at the Ecole Polytechnique, cracked the weaker encryption scheme that U.S. government policy forces Netscape Communications Corp. to use in a foreign version of its Navigator software. Yesterday, he posted the results of his efforts on the Internet's Cypherpunks discussion group. The student took up a challenge issued on July 14 in the Cypherpunks group, which is frequented by cryptography experts and hackers and mathematicians. He used 120 powerful computer workstations and two supercomputers to crack a piece of information encrypted in Netscape's "browser" software. The security is aimed at scrambling sensitive financial data to keep credit-card numbers, sales transactions and other material safe from breakms. The highly sophisticated computers took eight days to break the code -- far more power and time than the typical illegal hacker would be able to muster for criminal pursuits. But the chore nonetheless highlights the vulnerabilities that could make customers shy away from conducting commerce on the Internet, particularly international users who can't get hold of the tougher security measures allowed within the U.S. The French hacker was able to crack the so-called 40-bit encryption scheme in Netscape's overseas version of its software. In the U.S., Netscape employs a far more powerful design -- 128 bits, a number that refers to length of the encoding "key," which is used to scramble data. U.S. rules limit Netscape to exporting only 40-bit encryption overseas. Yet the 128-bit version takes exponentially more power to crack: Compared with violating the 40-bit scheme, the 128-bit key would take 10-to-the-26th-power more time to breach, experts say. That's a 1 followed by 26 zeroes, a factor of time that makes it all but impossible for hackers to break in. Netscape wasn't surprised at the findings. The company said it has always known and stated that 40-bit security could be breached by "brute force," the use of massive computing power to descramble the information. "This is a good indication of why the government should allow us to ship more secure software," said Mike Homer, Netscape's vice president of marketing. "The laws are archaic." Clinton administration officials have viewed strong encryption as a weapon for foreign terrorists, who could exchange communications without fear of eavesdropping by law enforcement officials. That policy, however, has raised the hackles of industry executives, who say that without strong encryption abroad, the growth of electronic commerce could be significantly stunted. Last week, a group of software executives told the White House that restrictive export regulations might blunt American competitiveness in foreign markets. "Netscape security is fine," said Dietrich Cappe, a senior partner at Red Planet LLC, an Internet consulting company. "As long as the government's export restriction exists, commerce is going to be severely hampered." Netscape licenses the encryption algorithm from RSA Data Security Inc., one of the most prominent software security firms that licenses its software to most major software companies. "We've warned the government that the level of security they allow our customers to export is too weak," said James Bidzos, president of RSA. "Maybe they'll listen now." Netscape's Mr. Homer noted, however, that the amount of effort and computing power, which could cost as much as $10,000 in addition to the cost of the machines, don't make even breaches of 40-bit security practical from a thief's perspective. "You'd be better off working in a shoe store, stealing credit card numbers for a week." Mr. Homer said. [End]

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Re: SSL challenge -- broken !
by Perry E. Metzger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

It has occured to me that, because the RC4 key crackers spend most of their time in key setup, you can crack N SSL sessions that you captured in not substantially more time than it took to crack 1. This is analagous to the way brute force Unix password file hacking operates. Perry

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Re: SSL challenge -- broken !
by aba＠dcs.exeter.ac.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> It has occured to me that, because the RC4 key crackers spend most > of their time in key setup, you can crack N SSL sessions that you > captured in not substantially more time than it took to crack > 1. This is analagous to the way brute force Unix password file > hacking operates. This occurred to me a whila ago too, and I thought it a very cool idea, as it would mean you could do loads of keys at once with little additional compute time. Then I changed my mind, there's a reason this doesn't work with 40 + 88 SSL, I think. It works well enough for straight RC4, as you just compare lots of keys at once, the RC4 output which will be XORed just gets compared against lots of sample plain text / cipher texts simulataneously. The actual key used is the 40 bit key you're bruting, plus what is effectively an 88 bit salt (in unix password nomenclature, only unix password salts are typically 12 bits). The actual 128 bit RC4 key is generated by taking the MD5 of the known and unknown key bits, plus a couple of other things. As the 88 known bits are randomly generated you can't combine work. If I have misunderstood something, or there is a way to work around this, please explain, because being able to do this would be a huge boon to the key breaker. It would allow you to break keys at a ferocious rate if you had lots of keys to break. Adam

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Re: Phone call for Mr. Doligez, was Re: SSL challenge -- broken !
by Damien.Doligez＠inria.fr 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>In general, it just adds more flames to the fire started by the >letter written by Microsoft, IBM and Lotus. Their point is bolstered >by this easy attack. Well, that was the whole point of the challenge, wasn't it ? Why didn't the journalists didn't write their articles one month ago when Hal posted his challenge ? What I find surprising is that it took as long as one month. I was even surprised when it wasn't done after two weeks, and that's when I started working on it. -- Damien P.S. check out <URL:http://pauillac.inria.fr/~doligez/ssl/press-conf.html>

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