December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: non-censorous spam control (was Re: Spam is Information?)
by Zooko Journeyman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A million monkeys operating under the pseudonym "Dr. Dmitri Vulis, KOTM <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com>" typed: > "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii(a)amaranth.com> writes: > > > In <199707311120.MAA00669(a)server.test.net>, on 07/31/97 > > at 12:20 PM, Adam Back <aba(a)dcs.ex.ac.uk> said: > > > > >Another longer term way to improve the situation is to charge some small > > >token amount per article, just to encourage people to use it with some > > >intelligence (use cross posts rather than separately reposting to each > > >group). > > > > This will not work!!! > > > > Charging for e-mail/news posts will no nothing to prevent spam and more > > than likely increase the noise on such lists. It is the spamers who have > > the money to post volumns of their crap. Allso I think you will find that > > it will be the fanatics who will think it worth the $$$ to get their > > message out. > > In all fairness, it would decrease the "spam" because some spammers are > certain to be unwilling to pay for braodcasting the kind of crap they > now broadcast for a flat fee. However it would not eliminate the "spam" > and it would damped the "signal" more than it would damped the "noise". You guys are all forgetting the second part of the protocol-- receiver receives message, reads it and decides whether he wants to receive more mail like this one from this sender. If so, receiver sends the token back. It's called "good faith deposit". --Z

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Re: Joichi Ito as a Junior Policeman
by Joichi Ito 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi Tim. At 23:46 97/08/01 -0700, Tim May wrote: > And why are you helping to write a report that will be the "official > position" of the Japanese cops? Because, it would be much better to have it say, "we don't want key escrow." My position on the study group is much more like making a testimony in congress. Unlike the US, once a bill hits the floor, it is very hard to participate. I have to participate while it is still in the ministry level. > The JDF is notoriously militaristic. You should reconsider this. Again. That is exactly why I am diving in to give my opinion. Leaving it to themselves to figure things out is probably much worse than having someone like myself in all of the study groups giving my frank opinion. > And Cypherpunks should be very careful about "advising" an obviously > co-opted member of the Japanese military and police establishment. Again. If you want to view me as "co-opted" that's fine. Without me, you would not have gotten Gilmore, Carl Ellison, or Whit Diffie's voice on the record during the study group hearings. Do you think I should just sit back and let the KEA's take over? > Use crypto to undermine such entities, not support them. Crypto will > unleash anarchy on the world. Why not let them figure it out instead of waging a war? > You sound like a "junior policeman" to me. Well I'm not. > Another person to add to the killfiles. What a productive attitude. - Joi P.S. I am only subscribed to cypherpunks lite. If you want to harass me or comment, please cc my directly. -- Finger jito(a)nsm.eccosys.com or jito(a)garage.co.jp for PGP Key Fingerprint for RSA PGP Key ID 0x0EE23A2D 0D3A 7AAA 3DA8 E7B3 3AF1 C6FA B7ED D834 Fingerprint for DSS/Diffie-Hellman PGP Key ID 0x2D9461F1 58F3 CA9A EFB8 EB9D DF18 6B16 E48D AF2A 2D94 61F1 Home Page: http://domino.garage.co.jp/jito/joihome.nsf To subscribe to my personal mailing list send mailto:friends-subscribe@ito.com

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Duncan Long on Cypherpunks and Guns
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

While looking through Duncan Long's Web pages on survivalism, guns, and such, I found this interesting mention of Cypherpunks. This particular article is at: http://www.prairienet.org/guns/dlgs/gun3.htm It dates from January, 1996. His main page is accessible from there. Long is well-known for his series of books on the M-16, Surviving Nuclear War, terrorist incidents, etc., mostly published by Delta Press and Paladin Press. (The kind of books Loompanics likes to display.) He also has some views on Christianity, Armageddon, and such...mostly I ignore these views, and am more than happy to have him be a good Christian so long as his views are not imposed on me. I mainly read Long for his views on guns and gun laws. --Tim --begin excerpt from Duncan Long's article-- Cyberpunks At the risk of getting "flamed", I thought I'd make a few comments about Cyberpunks. First, the definitions (using material I've lifted from some Cyberpunks sites on the WWW). According to those that consider themselves to be Cyberpunks, there are three main sub-classifications of Cyberpunks. These are: Hackers: Persons who are skilled or talented with most aspects of computers, electronics, and technology. For hackers, technology is not just a hobby but a way of life. Cypherpunks: Individuals who believe that the government is out to invade the privacy of everybody on the planet. The cypherpunk's central goal is to out-smart the system. (The encryption program, PGP, is often referred to by this group as "the Cypherpunk's best friend"). Ravers: Folks who use synthesized and sampled music, computer-generated psychedelic ("cyberdelic") art, and designer drugs to create massive all-night dance parties and love-fests in empty warehouses. Now if you grew up during the 1960s, you'll recognize the Ravers; they're basically hi-tech hippies. And the hackers are those darlings of the media that show how dangerous those of us on the Internet are to society (and give the establishment a good reason to demand more controls on the Net, censorship, etc., etc.). But if you go beyond the surface, especially with the Cyberpunks, you discover that these people have a lot in common with the survival, militia, and gun rights movements. Like us, they don't trust the government, are using the Net (hey, you're here, aren't you?), and (yes) even want to own firearms to protect themselves from lack of good law enforcement as well as run-away government agents who are apt to trample on their rights. There are some differences between the hard-core gun rights crowd and the Cyberpunks. Gun owners tend to be older and a bit more knowledgeable about government and how it does and doesn't work. And (as might be expected) has a better grasp of which firearms are suitable for self defense and which are Walter Mitty. But the two groups have a lot in common, even have a lot of "members" that belong to both groups. I think it will only be a matter of time before Cyberpunks and gun rights groups join forces or even become one and the same thing. Undoubtedly this is another worry that will keep the gun grabbers and those interested in getting rid of freedom in the US up at night. --end excerpt from Duncan Long's article--

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Money Money Money!
by tgolf 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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LEWIS AVE TULSA, OK 74136 ________________________________________________________ REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: OPM RT 2 BOX 396A JENKS, OK 74037 _______________________________________________________ CONCLUSION .I am enjoying my fortune that I made by sending out this program. You too, will be making money in 20 to 90 days, if you follow the SIMPLE STEPS outlined in this mailing. To be financially independent is to be FREE. Free to make financial decisions as never before. Go into business, get into investments, retire or take a vacation. No longer will a lack of money hold you back. However, very few people reach financial independence, because when opportunity knocks, they choose to ignore it. It is much easier to say "NO" than "YES", and this is the question that you must answer. Will YOU ignore this amazing opportunity or will you take advantage of it? If you do nothing, you have indeed missed something and nothing will change. Please re-read this material, this is a special opportunity. If you have any questions, please feel free to write to the sender of this information. You will get a prompt and informative reply. My method is simple. I sell thousands of people a product for $5 that costs me pennies to produce and email. I should also point out that this program is legal and everyone who participates WILL make money. This is not a chain letter or pyramid scam. At times you have probably received chain letters, asking you to send money, on faith, but getting NOTHING in return, NO product what-so-ever! Not only are chain letters illegal, but the risk of someone breaking the chain makes them quite unattractive. You are offering a legitimate product to your people. After they purchase the product from you, they reproduce more and resell them. It's simple free enterprise. As you learned from the enclosed material, the PRODUCT is a series of four 4 FINANCIAL AND BUSINESS REPORTS. The information contained in these REPORTS will not only help you in making your participation in this program more rewarding, but will be useful to you in any other business decisions you make in the years ahead. You are also buying the rights to reprint all of the REPORTS, which will be ordered from you by those to whom you mail this program. The concise one and two page REPORTS you will be buying can easily be reproduced at a local copy center for a cost off about 3 cents a copy. Best wishes with the program and Good Luck! "IT WAS TRULY AMAZING" "Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this program. But conservative as I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was no way that I could not get enough orders to at least get my money back. BOY, was I ever surprised when I found my medium sized post office box crammed with orders! I will make more money this year than any ten years of my life before." Mary Riceland, Lansing, MI TIPS FOR SUCCESS Send for your four 4 REPORTS immediately so you will have them when the orders start coming in. When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the product/service to comply with US Postal and Lottery laws. Title 18 Sections 1302 and 1341 specifically state that: "A PRODUCT OR SERVICE MUST BE EXCHANGED FOR MONEY RECEIVED." WHILE YOU WAIT FOR THE REPORTS TO ARRIVE: 1. Name your new company. You can use your own name if you desire. 2. Get a post office box (preferred). 3. Edit the names and addresses on the program. You must remember, your name and address go next to REPORT #1 and the others all move down one, with the fourth one being bumped OFF the list. 4. Obtain as many email addresses as possible to send until you receive the information on mailing list companies in REPORT #3. 5. Decide on the number of programs you intend to send out. The more you send, and the quicker you send them, the more money you will make. 6. After mailing the programs, get ready to fill the orders. 7. Copy the four 4 REPORTS so you are able to sent them out as soon as you receive an order. IMPORTANT: ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ORDERS YOU RECEIVE! 8. Make certain the letter and reports are neat and legible. YOUR GUARANTEE The check point which GUARANTEES your success is simply this: you must receive 15 to 20 orders for REPORT #1. This is a must!!! If you don't within two weeks, email out more programs until you do. Then a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2, if you don't, send out more programs until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, (take a deep breath) you can sit back and relax, because YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE AT LEAST $50,000. Mathematically it is a proven guarantee. Of those who have participated in the program and reached the above GUARANTEES-ALL have reached their $50,000 goal. Also, remember, every time your name is moved down the list you are in front of a different REPORT, so you can keep track of your program by knowing what people are ordering from you. IT'S THAT EASY, REALLY, IT IS!!! REMEMBER: "HE WHO DARES NOTHING, NEED NOT HOPE FOR ANYTHING." "INVEST A LITTLE TIME, ENERGY AND MONEY NOW OR SEARCH FOR IT FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE."

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Re: Duncan Long on Cypherpunks and Guns
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May wrote: > > While looking through Duncan Long's Web pages on survivalism, guns, and > such, I found this interesting mention of Cypherpunks. > This particular article is at: http://www.prairienet.org/guns/dlgs/gun3.htm > --begin excerpt from Duncan Long's article-- > Cypherpunks: Individuals who believe that the government is out to invade > the privacy of everybody on the planet. The cypherpunk's central > goal is to out-smart the system. (The encryption program, PGP, is often > referred to by this group as "the Cypherpunk's best friend"). > Ravers: Folks who use synthesized and sampled music, computer-generated > psychedelic ("cyberdelic") art, and designer drugs to create > massive all-night dance parties and love-fests in empty warehouses. Damn, I'm on the wrong list... RaveMonger

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Tim Misfires / Re: Joichi Ito as a Junior Policeman
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Joichi Ito wrote: > At 23:46 97/08/01 -0700, Tim May wrote: > > And why are you helping to write a report that will be the "official > > position" of the Japanese cops? > Because, it would be much better to have it say, "we don't want key > escrow." My position on the study group is much more like making > a testimony in congress. Unlike the US, once a bill hits the floor, > it is very hard to participate. I have to participate while it is still > in the ministry level. Tim spends so much time cleaning his guns he sometimes gets a bit myopic and everything he sees looks like a "target." While it is true that the process Joichi Ito is speaking of is still subject to the failing of those "protesting" becoming bum-buddies with those they are "protesting against," it is also true that it is more like giving opposing Congressional testimony than like joining the "old boys" at the Whithouse to trade your soul for a few moments of touching the hem of the King's garment at the seat of power. > > The JDF is notoriously militaristic. You should reconsider this. > > And Cypherpunks should be very careful about "advising" an obviously > > co-opted member of the Japanese military and police establishment. > Again. If you want to view me as "co-opted" that's fine. Without me, > you would not have gotten Gilmore, Carl Ellison, or Whit Diffie's voice > on the record during the study group hearings. Do you think I should > just sit back and let the KEA's take over? It is clearly up to Joichi Ito to decide how he can best work toward cypherpunk goals under his system of government, but he would do well to listen to those on the list who have seen more than a few crusaders sink into the swill when they make the mistake of talking to the piggies too close to the trough. A good sign that you have not yet been co-opted is if you still take that "extra" briefcase to the meetings, just in case. {"I've got to run out to my car for a moment with my briefcase, but I will be leaving my _other_ briefcase here." <tick-tock-tick-tock>} TruthMonger

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Re: your LISTSERV request "subscribe socal-raves-digest" Re: your LISTSERV request "subscribe socal-raves-digest"
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ Welcome to the Southern California Rave mailing list! ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ Better known as SoCal-Raves, this list is for the discussion of anything having to do with raves and the underground club/dance scene in the Southern California area. This includes the counties of Los Angeles, Orange, San Diego, Riverside, San Bernardino, and possibly Ventura and Santa Barbara as well. Don't let the broad area scare you. This list is about the local scene. About what is happening near you. Although rave flyers seem to think L.A. and San Diego are the only places local DJs are from, there is quite possibly something going on in your backyard. And this is the place to talk about it. Appropriate topics include: - announcements of upcoming events in the Southern California area. - reviews of shows/raves/DJs/music/etc. - rave-culture like clothes, smart drinks, rave attitude, etc. - local radio shows and stations that play rave and techno. - where to find the music, clothes, etc. - rave picnics and other non-rave rave-related events. - how to throw your own rave (and not get busted). ...and almost anything else rave related or related to the local scene. Try not to discuss raves not in the Southern California area or subjects that don't have anything to do with raves or this area. Though some discussions of other rave scenes may at times be appropriate. And try to keep from getting into flame wars and overly personal discussions on the list. Some comments are probably better kept to personal mail. Keep in mind that what you are sending to the list you are sending to everybody. Other than that, go for it. This is your list. Your scene. I'm hoping that this list can be a catalyst for helping to improve and unify the scene in SoCal. At least we should be able to get that "community" feeling that so many have trouble finding in the SoCal rave scene. And maybe, some day soon, we might even be throwing our own raves just as the SFRaves list has. This list should also be a good place to find out about the scene in SoCal. Hopefully soon there will be a calendar list. In the mean time please send me any info you have on upcoming raves and I will compile an upcoming rave calendar and post it to the list once a week. Now for the technical stuff: - Any mail sent to socal-raves(a)ucsd.edu will get sent out to everyone who subscribes to the list. - socal-raves-request(a)ucsd.edu should be used to subscribe and unsubscribe to the list. To subscribe you should send a message with the line "sub socal-raves" or "sub <email address> socal-raves" in the body of the message, not the subject line. The latter form should be used if you want to use an address other than the one shown in the "From:" line of the message. If at any time you want to unsubscribe or delete your name from the list (we would miss you) the line would be "del socal-raves". If you need help send a message with the line "HELP" and you will get a help file on how to use the listserv. - Administrative problems about the list should be sent to socal-raves-relay(a)ucsd.edu and Vigor Mortis, list administrator extraordinaire, will take care of you. - Any other SoCal-Raves list questions and rave info (for the calendar) should go to me at underdog(a)netcom.com Some info about me. When I started college about a five years ago I was intrigued by industrial music that was nameless to me at the time. Within a year or two I was doing an industrial radio show and going to underground clubs that played everything from acid house to industrial danse. Although many of these clubs were illegal, there was not a lot of hype, and they were definitely better than the L.A. club scene (which always seemed to me to be one big pickup joint/ meat market). They were basic. Raw. Even tribal. Full of energy. They gave me a place to dance without feeling pressured to ask some woman to dance with me who could care less. I really wanted to start a "gypsy club" of my own in Orange County. Not for profit, just so that people might have a local place to go. But too many things and people conspired against me. Then the word "rave" came into existence and shortly following 808 State's new album. It seemed to me that all the energy of Industrial, and the groove of Acid House was forming a new "Techno" genre and a new scene. This was a fresh injection of energy. The underground parties grew up. There was new hype and new ideas. More of my friends came with me to rave. And the birth of a new radio station helped expand the scene. It was fun and still is. But the radio station died. The scene mostly caved in on it's own weight (hype and greed only go so far). Big raves that I paid good money for didn't happen. And we are left with what? There is still that sense of acceptance. The sense of unity and anything goes. And I think we are starting to come back to that old feeling of community and being a part of something again. This summer a few friends and I were even able to throw a few free outdoor raves. Though small, these were to be the start of a regular thing for the summer but the fourth one got busted and we stopped. I'm hoping that it will happen again though (legally :). The underground scene here always seems to be able to recreate itself. Remember,the rave scene is for and about the people. About individual empowerment. Where an artist in a bedroom can get as big as the world will allow and where 'people' not 'person' are the center of attention. Big thanks go out to Brian (Vitamin B) and the SFRaves mailing list for inspiration, Dana Watanabe my co-conspirator in raves and other things, and Andy Ferrell (Vigor Mortis) for administrating and offering a place for the SoCal-Raves list. I hope you enjoy this list as much as I do. Peace and Love. And may you find a rave wherever you are. Joachim

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Investing on the Web?
by 53573730＠usa.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

INVESTORS, BROKER/DEALERS, AND BUSINESS OWNERS! The Global Stock Exchange has a new service on the web that will alert you to new and promising issues as well as exciting ipos, secondary offerings, and private offerings. If you would like us to keep you informed by way of short messages pointing you via hot link to issues on the web, click on our hot link below, visit our site, and sign up for the service you choose! It's free, fast, easy, confidential, and we think you'll be glad you took a moment to fill out our simple form at: GSE1. The Global Stock Exchange also deals with mergers, acquisitions, and in taking companies public. If you have an interest in going public or merging your public shell, visit: GSE2. For funding options visit: GSE5. Thank you, John, Kevin, and Crew at The Global-Stock-Exchange If this message offends you in any way, please accept my apology for disturbing you. Just reply to GSE with "remove" in the Subject or the Message section of the reply mail and your name will be removed from our database. To be globally removed from all lists go to IEMMC.

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Investing on the Web?
by 53573730＠usa.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

INVESTORS, BROKER/DEALERS, AND BUSINESS OWNERS! The Global Stock Exchange has a new service on the web that will alert you to new and promising issues as well as exciting ipos, secondary offerings, and private offerings. If you would like us to keep you informed by way of short messages pointing you via hot link to issues on the web, click on our hot link below, visit our site, and sign up for the service you choose! It's free, fast, easy, confidential, and we think you'll be glad you took a moment to fill out our simple form at: GSE1. The Global Stock Exchange also deals with mergers, acquisitions, and in taking companies public. If you have an interest in going public or merging your public shell, visit: GSE2. For funding options visit: GSE5. Thank you, John, Kevin, and Crew at The Global-Stock-Exchange If this message offends you in any way, please accept my apology for disturbing you. Just reply to GSE with "remove" in the Subject or the Message section of the reply mail and your name will be removed from our database. To be globally removed from all lists go to IEMMC.

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spam is good for you
by Zooko Journeyman 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I like it when spam is sent to the cpunks list because it makes the list less accessible to lamers and wanna-be censors while not really hurting its value to people who are familiar with configurable/ scriptable mail agents. (Heck, I've considered 99% of cpunks traffic to be about the same flavor as spam on my palate for years, so I'm already comfortable with using heavy filtering as a matter of course.) In other news, I'm going to HIP and I'm thinking I should have a t-shirt made to piss off the self-righteous socialist anti-spam activists. My favorite slogan so far is "I may disagree with every spam you send, but I will defend to the death your right to spam it. --Voltaire". I consider this to be a powerful meme to broadcast at those low-tech lawmongers, but it isn't sufficiently.. um.. offensive. Any suggestions from the peanut gallery? Of course I have to include my e-mail address on the shirt so that those who are offended by my advocacy of absolute freedom of speech can try to mailbomb me. Over, Zooko

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