December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: death of Usenet
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>> If I understand the implemented Eternity service correctly, it >> fundamentally relies on Usenet as the propagation method. What happens >> if Usenet dies? How will I continue to refresh my Eternity document? Was it Yogi Berra who said "Nobody goes there any more; it's too crowded."? While Usenet is becoming a vaster wasteland by the month, for the purposes of an Eternity service, or alt.anonymous.messages, that's fine, because there's more noise to hide your signal in, and it doesn't really matter if it's 98% spam as long as your potential user base can get the service without attracting much attention. The more interesting problem with Usenet is that it no longer operates in the old flood-routing fashion, where everybody had all the news they could handle on their machines and could quietly grub the articles they wanted out of /usr/spool/news, and a 300...1200...9600 baud modem could receive it all. Instead, news tends to be exchanged between servers that can handle the flood of 1+ GB/day, and news clients download the articles they want from the servers, which makes it much easier to monitor who's actually reading what, though you could still get a feed of alt.anonymous.messages or alt.binaries.pictures.stego without the Traffic Analysts knowing which messages were for you. Some counters to this may be to use services like DejaNews to read the news through web anonymizers (if you trust them), or to build news retrieval features into remailers (if you trust them, and preferably with a pay-per-retrieval system so the remailer doesn't just get resource-abused or entrapped as a porn retriever) or to use SSH to log in to your shell accounts on your cash-paid ISP. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp # (If this is a mailing list or news, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)

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Welfare Solution #389 / Re: Socio-Economic Cults (Re: CypherPunk Cults)
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

William H. Geiger III wrote: > A prime example is the welfair class in America. All their basic needs are > provided for by the State (food, housing, medical, education, ...) and yet > they have the highest crime rates. And make no mistake this isn't 18th > century England where people are stealing a loaf of bread to survive the > majority of these criminal are commiting their crimes to support their > entertainments. Welfare Solution #389: Many in the welfair class have their basic needs met by the government and then steal to buy heroin. How about this? - When a person on welfare is busted for heroin use, or theft to support a habit, the State thereafter sends the person's welfare check to a Crime Restitution fund and lets the person keep stealing, only now it is for the purpose of supplying their own basic needs. The crime rate stays the same, but the victims receive some amount of recompensation. Damn, I'm smart... SmartMonger

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Re: State Charges in Weaver Case
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

William H. Geiger III wrote: > He should be up on 1st Degree Murder charges as these were a planned, > permeditated murders. Freeh, Reno, and Clinton should all be up on the > same caharges as co-consiritors for planning and ordering the murders and > for covering up the matter after the fact. After their conviction in State court, we should execute their spouse and child, and then try them again in Federal court. > Of cource all 3 should be introduced to "'ol Sparky" for their part in the > murders at Waco. A person who never leaves their State can be arrested and charged for a resident of a different State, with different laws, accessing the material on h/is/er hard drive. Can a State without the death penalty arrest and charge an executioner in a different State, that does have the death penalty, for murdering one of their State's residents? Next time I'm on a topless beach in France, can I make a citizen's arrest on some beautiful babe and have her extradited to the U.S. to have her charged? (I would probably settle out of court for some privately arranged Victim Compensation.) If someone murders two people, shouldn't they be electrocuted, resucitated, and then electrocuted again? If Willy Clinton left D.C. at 4 p.m. on a train travelling West at 50/mph, and Louey Freeh left D.C. 2 hours later on a plane travelling NorthWest at 20/mph, then why would Willy be on a train, how would Louey's plane get off the ground, and how could the "single CypherPunk theory" account for...? ...uuuhhh. I think I've already said too much. Uuuhhh...Monger

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by 5436_sales＠emailblaster.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

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The Sacco & Vancetti anniversary
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On August 23, 1927, Niccola Sacco and Bartholomeo Vancetti were murdered by the USD in Massachussetts. Please have some beer/pot in their memory (or kill a fed, or mailbomb Kent Crispin, or whatever you find fitting). I'll be away from the 'net for the next few days. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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IPsec product progress
by Robert Hettinga 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

--- begin forwarded text Reply-To: rgm3(a)chrysler.com X-Sender: rgm3(a)pop3hub.is.chrysler.com Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 07:11:56 -0400 To: ipsec(a)tis.com From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm3(a)chrysler.com> Subject: IPsec product progress Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ipsec(a)ex.tis.com Precedence: bulk If anyone will be in Detroit next week tues-thurs and can make it to AutoTech, we will be having a live demonstration of IPsec products interoperating. Things are touch and go. We have had routing and hardware problems that have significantly delayed us. We do have 5 vendors here and on monday I will know exactly what to whom we will be demonstrating real automotive applications secured with IPsec. All of the products are configured for the current ESP DES-CBC explicit and AH HMAC-MD5. Oakley is handling session establishment. We did not get the hardware for the CA in time to set up certificates, so we are using pre-shared keys. Robert Moskowitz Chrysler Corporation (810) 758-8212 --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah(a)shipwright.com) Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

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For Platypus Eyes Only
by bureau42 Anonymous Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED SEPT. 5, 1997 THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz Define 'stealing' Winding up an ongoing but perhaps instructive debate with e-mail correspondent J.P., I had offered: "The notion that it's all right to steal at gunpoint 'some modest amount, as long it serves a legitimate public need' ignores the simple moral truth that the end cannot be allowed to justify the means." J.P. responded: "Define steal. If you are benefiting from having a court and national defense system, and pay nothing for its upkeep, then you would be stealing. OK -- one final time: # # # Hi, J.P. -- Probably the one place where we are still furthest apart is the definition of "theft." To me, it merely has to do with voluntarism, versus levying something under the threat of force. None of my federal taxes are paid voluntarily. I allow them to be "withheld" from my paycheck because if I tell my employer I won't work here any longer unless he stops "withholding," I'll be out of a job. Likewise, any other "compliance" I grant the federals is because they have repeatedly demonstrated they will seize (start ital)all(end ital) of my paycheck, and all of my bank accounts (even if I find myself unemployed, and have so notified them), if I do not "comply" -- all this without so much as a signed court order. Under those conditions -- even if I didn't know how wasteful, oppressive and counterproductive most of their schemes really are -- what would I care to how "noble" a purpose the federals assure me some of my moneys will be put? Try approaching someone taking money out of her ATM. Assure her that at least 60 percent of the money you're seizing from her at gunpoint will be used to buy medicines for the poor. Proceed to (start ital)buy(end ital) medicines for the poor with 60 percent of her money, and keep careful documentation. When you're identified from the ATM camera tape and arrested, show the police your evidence that most of the money went to "a noble purpose," while the rest merely covered your "operating overhead." Thus, you committed no "theft," and they'll let you go without prosecution. Right? I don't think so. Your underlying premise is that "government" can properly do things which would be crimes if they were done by individuals, as long as they're "for the greater good of the many." But that one concession leads, in the end, to all the evils of the police state. On the other hand, you puzzle me with the assertion: "If you are benefiting from having a court and national defense system, and pay nothing for its upkeep, then you would be stealing." Even if it weren't for the fact that more and more of these "Defense" and "court" dollars go to enslave and murder American citizens who have harmed no one -- whose only "offense" is refusal to kneel before their federal masters -- I still wouldn't follow this. If a wealthy philanthropist builds a free public library, and I use it, am I "stealing?" After all, I have "benefited from it without paying for its upkeep." If a direct-mail scam artist mails me some gimcrack plastic camera I never ordered, and then tries to bill me $29.95 for "shipping and handling," do I have to pay? I don't think so. Yet under your theory, he would be allowed to seize from my bank account or paycheck any amount by which he could demonstrate I had "benefited" from his unsolicited "gift" ... couldn't he? Unless (again) government has a right to do things which would be crimes if undertaken by mortal men. In which case I ask again, since we the citizens cannot possibly "delegate" to the government rights or powers which we never possessed, where does government claim to derive the right or power to do these immoral things? From the same place the invading bandit chieftain (or, perhaps, Union bluebelly?) gets his "right" to rape your daughter and then ransom her back to you for half your wealth? At the point of his bayonet, and nowhere else? Your only answer seems to be, "The government has to do these things, because we're not sure we could find enough funds, otherwise." Imagine a bank robber patiently explaining to you: "I have certain absolute necessities, such as keeping my family fed, and buying ammunition and gas for the car. In the past, the only reliable way I've found to meet these requirements is bank robberies. Now, if you want me to reform my bank robbery system, perhaps taking a larger share from the larger, richer banks, I'll be happy to negotiate some reasonable reforms. "But heavens, you can't expect me to take the risk of giving up bank robbing entirely, on the strength of this theory that 'Somehow, I could probably keep my family fed by taking some kind of a steady job.' Don't I see panhandlers on the street every day? Aren't those people who tried your pie-in-the-sky, 'non-coercive' way of 'earning' enough money, and failed? I'd look a fine figure, standing at my child's grave, explaining 'I HOPED you wouldn't starve if I gave up bank-robbing. I thought it MIGHT work.' In fact, no single bank robber of my acquaintance has ever given up the trade voluntarily. Surely SOMEONE would have done so, in all these years, if your way could be made to work, don't you think?" If a private citizen told you this, you would doubtless judge him an incurable sociopath, and hope to see him shot down or caged before he could terrorize and kill too many more innocent bank tellers and patrons. But when a group of men who call themselves "the government" say this same thing, you tell me they're being sensible and prudent. Others -- whether singly or in organized groups -- can volunteer to do things which benefit me, without my permission. Presumably, they figured the benefits to them would justify their proceeding, even without my agreeing to help them. They have (start ital)no(end ital) moral right to then turn around and bill me for a share of a thing they have done without seeking my voluntary help and permission in advance (what would be the proper charge for my taking aesthetic pleasure in someone else's architecturally pleasing building, I wonder?) under the theory: "You benefited, so you have to pay." They can only extract such a non-voluntary payment from me by force or the threat of force ... which is theft. Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin(a)lvrj.com. The web site for the Suprynowicz column is at http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin(a)lvrj.com "A well-regulated population being necessary to the security of a police state, the right of the Government to keep and destroy arms shall not be infringed."

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RE: an end to "courts" (was RE: An end to "court appointed attorneys" )
by Rishab Aiyer Ghosh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May wrote: >The modern American legal system, at least in the many recent capital >murder cases which have received such wide publicity, is not about a >"search for truth," obviously. Instead, it is an adversarial system (no >surprise there) in which competing teams spend vast amounts of money trying >to derail the other side, get jurors dismissed because of "jury consultant" >models, etc. Yes, but. The point I was trying to make is that, in a system of voluntary justice, you don't need to worry about the abuse of power, because there is no power with the judge (arbitrator). In any state-backed legal system, there is potential for abuse, because the court represents the power of the state and can enforce it. So you have the cliched checks and balances. The alternative to an American system is to limit jury trials, as is done in India and much of the ex-British colonies following common-law. While the use of juries in America is excessive (in patent trials, good grief! where even the judges can barely understand a word), they are supposed to balance the power of the state as represented by the judge. As to the common-law system itself, which is unique to England and its former colonies, true it is adversarial - but that's why _at the trial_ you're _innocent_ until proven guilty. Under code-civil legal systems, which are usually inquisitorial, and where the judge (or magistrate) _does_ try to determine the "truth", there is much less competition over technicalities because by the time a case gets to trial, the likelihood of guilt, in terms of evidence, is probably quite established. But then, you might worry that a magistrate is no longer impartial, and possibly leans towards the prosecution. The potential for abuse and excessive wielding of state powers is perhaps higher in such a system - I admit that I am biased towards common-law. However much we hate lawyers - it is worth noting here that _Shakespeare_, living under adversarial common-law, suggested that we shoot all the lawyers, rather than, say, Moliere - they do not represent the enforceable power of the state. Even when, as prosecutors in criminal trials, they are state-backed, they are on level ground with defence lawyers (possibly also state-funded) in front of the court - which _really_ represents the power of the state. I have no reason to doubt the integrity of military court judges like Tim's father, nor those who work for prosecutorial legal systems in much of continental Europe. But a legal system, if we have one at all, is designed to prevent abuses when it is operated even by dishonest people. Just as a dictatorship may be the most efficient among several models of the state, but a democracy is usually favoured because it takes just one "bad" person to ruin a dictatorship and rather more to harm a democracy, so a common-law jury system is inherently among the better of various choices for a state-backed model of justice. Excesses in its implementation in America may need restraining, but that's more pruning than uprooting. In a state-backed court system, lawyers, remember, exist to protect you against the court-directed abuse of state power. If you don't like the state, or its court system, that's fine, but it's not the lawyers who are inherently to blame. A recent issue of Forbes ran an article arguing that judges and laws, not lawyers, are to blame for American "excesses". They weren't half-wrong, for it's the judges and the laws who have the state behind them, not lawyers. No, not even state-_financed_ lawyers. Rishab First Monday - The Peer-Reviewed Journal on the Internet http://www.firstmonday.dk/ Munksgaard International Publishers, Copenhagen Intl & Managing Editor - Rishab Aiyer Ghosh (ghosh(a)firstmonday.dk) Mobile +91 98110 14574; Fax +91 11 2209608; Tel +91 11 2454717 A4/204 Ekta Apts., 9 Indraprastha Extn, New Delhi 110092 INDIA

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List of security courses updated
by Avi Rubin 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thanks for all of the wonderful information on courses. As a result, the list has really grown and been corrected in several places. The newest version can be found at http://www.cs.nyu.edu/~rubin/courses.html And I'm pretty sure I got the URL right this time. This is a good place to point students who are interested in studying cryptography. Avi ********************************************************************* Aviel D. Rubin rubin(a)research.att.com Secure Systems Research Dept. Adjunct Professor at NYU AT&T Labs - Research 180 Park Avenue http://www.research.att.com/~rubin/ Florham Park, NJ 07932-0971 Voice: +1 973 360-8356 USA FAX: +1 973 360-8809 --> Check out http://www.clark.net/pub/mjr/websec/ for a new book on web security (The Web Security Sourcebook). *********************************************************************

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No Subject
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Kent Crispix drunkenly blubbered out: >> Should we just sit idly by and let police officers attack citizens? > >Of course not. There are possible responses other than the ones you >suggest, however. Like what Kent, asking cops to defend you, from Cops? Sorry, Kent, that method doesn't work. Filing a lawsuit, or bringing them to court won't stop em from doing it again, also, a chance remains that they won't get convicted, after all, almost any police force I've seen always gets off for doing things. Remember, plungering someone like that is definitely a cruel and unusual punishment, and therefore a crime in itself. Those pigs should rot in jail for violating someones constitutional rights. However, the eye for an eye thing would make for an interesting punishment for the cops. PlungerMonger "There's something wrong with not killing cops in defense who sodomize you."

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