December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Warning about a message I may have sent
by tcmay＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I may have accidentally sent a message to the list that I was intending to send just to myself, from my offline mailer Eudora (as opposed to elm, which I'm now on). As usual during any time Netcom is crowded, it is apparently not accepting connections from toad.com, and so I am not seeing traffic sent to the list (No, I don't need any of you to offer to send it to me...it'll arrive when toad retries the connection some hours from now and Netcom deigns to accept it. A run-of-the--mill mistaken message would not be an issue, but this a BIGGIE, a 43K file of a paper I just completed that I was planning to offer as an attachment to a mail message. So, I was testing the whole thing. But I may've typed in the list name instead of mine. Oh well. If it arrives, it's the text only version of a paper submitted to the "Imagina 95" conference to be held in February in Monte Carlo. I guess random posts to the list are the Monte Carlo method in action. --Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. Cypherpunks list: majordomo(a)toad.com with body message of only: subscribe cypherpunks. FAQ available at ftp.netcom.com in pub/tcmay

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Re: Warning about a message I may have sent
by dmandl＠bear.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> From: <tcmay(a)netcom.com> > > I may have accidentally sent a message to the list that I was > intending to send just to myself, from my offline mailer Eudora (as > opposed to elm, which I'm now on). [...] > If it arrives, it's the text only version of a paper submitted to the > "Imagina 95" conference to be held in February in Monte Carlo. Sorry, Tim, but if it's not digitally signed by you with a valid key, that baby's up for grabs. Monte Carlo here I come... --Dave.

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Pr0duct Cypher: PGPtools.
by loki＠nately.UCSD.EDU 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The error you mentioned is not my problem. I got the fix when I got PGPTools. I would really like you to look at the code I am using. Do you still have access to a Linux box? This communication with you using public groups and lists is a waste of bandwidth, and very slow. Could you send me an anonymous reply block? It is going to take forever for you to guess what my problem is without being able to look at the code directly, and I do not want to post the whole thing to cypherpunks. - ---------------------------------------------------------- Lance Cottrell who does not speak for CASS/UCSD loki(a)nately.ucsd.edu PGP 2.6 key available by finger or server. "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra. Suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night the ice weasels come." --Nietzsche - ---------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQCVAgUBLuY51FVkk3dax7hlAQEd3gP+NnOcGoscIITPTHUQNztkSrYksjt3F9Qp WAuaelTX7UkkjvBjlLwyR2rASx0vXaGxsBmoAgWlyM1Z+87hqBK1EoCLFzN+Zt5b Vjx/GWsKo4QMro2DD8t7ppKKDUdcgK/7EgaaWGhKOXkmO5awf4IzxHIebeoqz/f6 UPwe3rnCVbY= =N8QE -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Breaking the NSA
by merriman＠metronet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >Frenchie Wrote > > Not that easy. They would just crack the code and *another* > acronym based agency would come up with a different reason to > seize you and your computer. It would seem unrelated to anyone > but *you* since you would know what you did but would have no > way to prove that your original infraction is why you are doin' > time. Hope that makes some sense. > >Maybe. What if the only way to do this was illegal? Since when has that really stopped them? Or even slowed them down noticeably? > > > If it isn't something *really good* they probably wouldn't come after > you anyway. > >Whats the definition of GOOD? How about.... the Skipjack algorithm :-) > > #3 I can agree with. I don't think that NSA would tip their hand > and let on to us that they can read our stuff. At least not directly. > >We may as well find out. Knock yourself out. I got no desire to be Bubba's love toy..... > > One more thing. Don't you think that they subscribe to the Cypherpunk > list just to see this kind of logic? > > >Maybe But isnt freedom of speech what this list is about and what your >constitution does! Granted that's what the U.S. Constitution _started out_ as - no telling where things will end :-( > > > > BTW....I ain't one of 'em and I wouldn't tell if I was. :) > >Prove it Ri-i-i-i-i-ght! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBLuajTMVrTvyYOzAZAQF0bQP/YwIGyIsAEjZnyT1lIRSR25YUnTvT48cP vd9uDh/NYOHSrWtADj32bBQlenmQIF791P/VTZqjd1oxNgEzwLF8gZ4OgIUt6UQm URUapx0uUVRNQqD1SrNMH2RCJyh+pjJZryGif1AnJMqTUvlqvZDrHxCeDQ3qunah ZXIOGZvC+6w= =GtzR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Finger merriman(a)fohnix.metronet.com for PGP public key and fingerprint. PGP encrypted Email welcome, encouraged, and preferred. "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." John F. Kennedy

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Re: Breaking the NSA
by VAMAGUS＠delphi.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Tony.Gurnick(a)nzdairy.co.nz wrote: >If you really want to test NSA. Encrypt some crypto code >with pgp in an overseas public key(IE: non-us) then email the >code to someone out of the us. This way you will find out 1 of 2 >things. > 1. That pgp is unbreakable by the NSA > - Rsa with fairly log keys take so much work the nsa > cant crack it with huge computers. This is a good > thing Not that easy. They would just crack the code and *another* acronym based agency would come up with a different reason to seize you and your computer. It would seem unrelated to anyone but *you* since you would know what you did but would have no way to prove that your original infraction is why you are doin' time. Hope that makes some sense. > > - Idea, even though it is new, is a secure algorithm > for the above reasons > Same argument...no one would ever know either way. Until you got out in about 100 years. > > - You wont get in trouble as you are only sending > random bits out of the country not code If it isn't something *really good* they probably wouldn't come after you anyway. > > 2. PGP is BREAKABLE by the NSA (OUCH!) > - You get in deep shit! > > > or > > 3. PGP is breakable by the NSA but they dont tell anyone! (HMMM) #3 I can agree with. I don't think that NSA would tip their hand and let on to us that they can read our stuff. At least, not directly. > > - Well this would be an interesting one! > > - Since they are the ones that imposed the ITAR rule in the > first place (them or the us gov) they have a prob! If > they knew you were exporting crypto because they cracked > pgp they could not convict you as that would imply they cracked > pgp and they would tell the whole world what they can & > cannot crack. It would be a big bummer for RSA and IDEA > but at least we`d know! One more thing. Don't you think that they subscribe to the Cypherpunk list just to see this kind of logic? BTW....I ain't one of 'em, and I wouldn't tell if I was. :) ***************************Frenchie Sends******************************* * PGP Public Keys: 1024/BEB3ED71 & 2047/D9E1F2E9 on request. * * As soon as any man says of the affairs of the state * * "What does it matter to me?" the state may be given up for lost. * * J.J.Rousseau - The Social Contract * * PGP info: email to mail-server(a)mit.edu with first line of message: * * send pub/usenet/alt.security.pgp/* * *****************************J. Francois******************************** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBLuZF0LbmxeO+s+1xAQEGQwP+MjgH2uvJUXNAi8Cb1HMHZRTMjxAODSfr dfPS1SCbzCTzaQMSVCvfWS8hxfbnENGuDe3bhdhIJb0QzkuYWTmHFxpTydrTtJw+ U0OtB/O65JpNsisXEYF14FZ3hUBPqQ8NQ/TN4WV1dx6tROuWnoY1hYAOMM2pnZNY 0NBtz0MB1i0= =XpJK -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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crypto email to France
by farr＠evtech.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello - My company would like to be able to send encrypted mail to our office in Paris. Strictly inter-company stuff, using PGP for example. I know we can buy PGP here, and get it off the net in Europe, thereby avoiding exporting the technology in either direction... I've been told by someone here in the US that France wants control of any use of encryption software including sending email. I've also been told by someone in France that the agency in France is the Service Central de la Securite des Systemes d'Information (SCSSI), and that they want companies to register with them for use of cryptographic software. I've read what I can find on the net about legalities of using encryption software, and everything concerning Europe (what little there is) is quite vague. Does anyone here know any details or where I might find out more about what, if anything, needs to be done to legally exchange encrypted email with our office in Paris? Thanks very much! Best Regards, Rebecca Farr Evolutionary Technologies, Inc. Systems Administration Group 4301 Westbank Dr. Bldg. B, Suite 100 Austin, TX 778746 phone: 512-327-6994 x260 fax: 512-327-6117 email: farr(a)evtech.com

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Bad PGP sig on 'Remailers and ##'
by Greg Broiles 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Earlier I wrote: > I'm not going to install remailer software that would allow this > because it'd make it even easier to post messages under someone > else's name. [...] but the PGP sig on the message was bad, apparently because nn stuck an extra X-To: line in the message. Ugh. Anyway, I said it, and meant to say it. Thanks to the c-punk who caught that & sent me mail. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBLuZLpX3YhjZY3fMNAQHJWAP+Mk6jSgxGl5zpFDblnUeEfa94YtDaCNxr j9EWgI2lQzSsEqO2e5JRohBmXlQGxs8aPiKl3wGsRAcYAO6kYV3xfTQOfDbifT+9 sFP5/1wgO7I4cM3EdDgVtM7bYHUR44QebN/ONQxdDWi2+ErVfWh/PPR1u9DR2+wd c0v7rIRuuZc= =OvHk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- "The anchored mind screwed into me by the psycho- | Greg Broiles lubricious thrust of heaven is the one that thinks | greg(a)goldenbear.com every temptation, every desire, every inhibition." | -- Antonin Artaud | @!

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Re: Breaking the NSA
by jrochkin＠cs.oberlin.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 6:31 PM 12/07/94, DNA wrote: >If you really want to test NSA. Encrypt some crypto code >with pgp in an overseas public key(IE: non-us) then email the >code to someone out of the us. This way you will find out 1 of 2 >things. > 1. That pgp is unbreakable by the NSA > - Rsa with fairly log keys take so much work the nsa > cant crack it with huge computers. This is a good > thing Nah, no possible result would tell you this. Perhaps PGP is "breakable", in that it takes something like 30 seconds of their computer time to break, say. But even 30 seconds would probably be too much time to spend on _every_ single piece of email that crosses national borders.

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Breaking the NSA
by Tony.Gurnick＠nzdairy.co.nz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Frenchie Wrote Not that easy. They would just crack the code and *another* acronym based agency would come up with a different reason to seize you and your computer. It would seem unrelated to anyone but *you* since you would know what you did but would have no way to prove that your original infraction is why you are doin' time. Hope that makes some sense. Maybe. What if the only way to do this was illegal? If it isn't something *really good* they probably wouldn't come after you anyway. Whats the definition of GOOD? #3 I can agree with. I don't think that NSA would tip their hand and let on to us that they can read our stuff. At least, not directly. We may as well find out. One more thing. Don't you think that they subscribe to the Cypherpunk list just to see this kind of logic? Maybe, But isnt freedom of speech what this list is about and what your constitution does! BTW....I ain't one of 'em, and I wouldn't tell if I was. :) Prove it T

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Re: Breaking the NSA
by VAMAGUS＠delphi.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Tony.Gurnick(a)nzdairy.co.nz wrote: >Frenchie Wrote > > Not that easy. They would just crack the code and *another* > acronym based agency would come up with a different reason to > seize you and your computer. It would seem unrelated to anyone > but *you* since you would know what you did but would have no > way to prove that your original infraction is why you are doin' > time. Hope that makes some sense. > >Maybe. What if the only way to do this was illegal? Then you would have to hope you never do anything illegal. Then no (pick your acronym) agency would be able to easily trump up a charge that could be used as an infiltration technique to get to your system *legally*. If they want to bad enuff I'm sure breaking the law to catch you doing something would be arranged. Violating National Interests maybe? > If it isn't something *really good* they probably wouldn't come after > you anyway. >Whats the definition of GOOD? PGP?...3xDES?....RC5?....plans for an A-Bomb with instructions for construction and location of available nuclear material?...pick one. > #3 I can agree with. I don't think that NSA would tip their hand > and let on to us that they can read our stuff. At least, not directly. >We may as well find out. Agreed, the problem is finding a way to be sure! A little misinformation has a habit of going a long way. > One more thing. Don't you think that they subscribe to the Cypherpunk > list just to see this kind of logic? >Maybe, But isnt freedom of speech what this list is about and what your >constitution does! Be careful...not everyone here is a U.S. resident or citizen. At least I don't think so. But since I am I know how precariously balanced the definition of free specch is. The Supreme Court in cahoots with law enforcement and lawmakers could change things pretty quick! Throw in a handy list of names......u know the rest. > BTW....I ain't one of 'em, and I wouldn't tell if I was. :) >Prove it [I see my smiley was disregarded] Proof you say! A classical dilemma: If I say I am (one of them) it implies gathering intelligence or a reason to sow suspicion even if I am not. Denial implies I am what I say I am not. So, even though I am not, it would be impossible to *convince* you of that. If I was I still couldn't produce *believable* evidence to support the statement. Take my advice: Don't Trust Nobody. ***************************Frenchie Sends******************************* * PGP Public Keys: 1024/BEB3ED71 & 2047/D9E1F2E9 on request. * * As soon as any man says of the affairs of the state * * "What does it matter to me?" the state may be given up for lost. * * J.J.Rousseau - The Social Contract * * PGP info: email to mail-server(a)mit.edu with first line of message: * * send pub/usenet/alt.security.pgp/* * *****************************J. Francois******************************** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBLuZqibbmxeO+s+1xAQFLpwP7BiRyz2VD+gkBwE7F/yF99XPlYVjXYBsV wE6bJtGOQ94qojVYSlw/L2BXHwm271VqXgknKAxZbJUh/Y4497tnaRCVLx4Us91Z k/wrEWmnsB5uE2yNWcYuIMxMSRfrEhUAPNJUvl95+ryFm+7TC7kVKuPi/38+oKMS FCe0hmvbVDQ= =lt1q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Is there a reason *you* don't sign your messages? Hehehe.... :)

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