December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Anyone seen the 'quantum cryptanalysis' thread on sci.crypt?
by Carl Ellison 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 11:21:45 -0700 >From: doug(a)OpenMind.com (Doug Cutrell) >I won't argue whether Shor's work will be implemented or not within any >given time period, but I thought that one of the most important properties >of it is that once (and if) achieved, the resources required to factor >increasingly large moduli lengths go up only polynomially, not >exponentially. The real roadblock might be that there are limits to how many bits there can be in a register. NIST's recent Quantum Computation conference included discussion of the expected lifetime of a computation (what fraction of a second the computation would have to complete in before the internal state space goes incoherent). The more bits are bound together, the shorter the lifetime of those bits, according to one result. However, the more bits you have the longer the computation has to be. This suggests that any given Quantum Computer technology point will lead to a maximum state size (likely in a small number of bits) for a given application. Trouble is, I'm not a quantum physicist, so my understanding of this is superficial. Any real physicists out there? - Carl

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REGIONAL MEETING
by Sandy Sandfort 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SANDY SANDFORT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C'punks, I've been having Cypherpunks-physical-meetings withdrawal since leaving the SF Bay Area. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to conjure up a venue nor enough folks for the Cypherpunks anniversary last month. For October, however, I've gotten a firm offer of the NYC living room of a local Cypherpunk (Hero of the Revolution). I also have compiled a list of a dozen and a half current C'punks and interested fellow travellers. Unless some problem comes up, we'll be getting together on the 8th of October at noon or so. If you are interested in attending, and we *haven't* communicated already, drop we some e-mail. Also, if you know anyone who might want to be on the Cypherpunks list, give me their contact info so I can invite them. We'll have ever so much fun. S a n d y ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Re: IN H.O.T. WATER
by rishab＠dxm.ernet.in 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sandy Sandfort <sandfort(a)crl.com> > negative, siege mentality. I believe there is a place, in every > community of fellow travelers, for humor and humanity. That's > Acapulco H.E.A.T., with dubious crypto and suspect technology, > has become an inside joke for Cypherpunks. When we watch it, we > see things the average person misses. This is something we > share, and something that helps create the lighter side of > Cypherpunk culture. Absolutely. ;-) You notice that I don't post 'please stop that' every time you come up with another H.E.A.T. bulletin. But more than one TV serial would be a bit much. Luckily David has assured me that his was only for one episode. He doesn't plan to do more, but others, as he says, are welcome! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rishab Aiyer Ghosh "Clean the air! clean the sky! wash the wind! rishab(a)dxm.ernet.in take stone from stone and wash them..." Voice/Fax/Data +91 11 6853410 Voicemail +91 11 3760335 H 34C Saket, New Delhi 110017, INDIA

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Electronic Revolution and Guerilla Warfare?
by merriman＠metronet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

What with the governments of several nations around the world starting to get a bit heavy-handed with their populaces, I was wondering how a modern-day revolution could take place in a crypto-repressive society, and how the citizenry could sufficiently rattle/displace such a government so as to regain control over their destinies. For the purpose of discussion, I'd like to propose the following "environmental variables": > majority of the population unable/unwilling to do more than complain. > minority of the population not sure of how to fight the process, but willing to support those that do know. > some number (small) of those capable of crypto or other electronic mayhem depart the country in a short period bridging the implementation of repressive government controls and laws. > There are varying permutations of the crypto/electronic-capable, and the force-capable (ie, hackers-only to bomb-makers-only, and anything in between). > said government uses all means at it's disposal to try and apprehend those attempting to resist, as well as intercept communications, prevent damage to it's infrastructure and physical entities. > at the start of government "hostilities", all intra-national anon remailers are seized or shut down, and access to international ones is *heavily* monitored or blocked (yeah, I know, but we're gaming here!). > national identity medium (card, wristband, etc) in place and mandatory. > travel, currency, and information transfer restrictions (ie, no more "How to build a Backpack Nuke" or "How to hack the Tax Gestapo central computers" books :-) What problems would those willing to fight such government oppression be likely to face? How to deal with those problems? How to organize and exchange personnel/information? How to not get caught? How to avoid detection? What means/methods of, um, dissonance against such a government would be more/less effective? Under what various permutations of electronic/physical bushwhacking would the process be successful or not? Duration? Other than the obvious crypto/cyber/military disciplines, what other professions or specialized knowledge would be useful under what conditions? What blatantly obvious thing(s) have I left out? Dave Merriman - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Finger merriman(a)metronet.com for PGP/RIPEM public keys and fingerprints. Unencrypted Email may be ignored without notice to sender. PGP preferred. Remember: It is not enough to _obey_ Big Brother; you must also learn to *love* Big Brother.

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Re: Will all codes and ciphers be broken?
by Amanda Walker 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> What code and cipher breaking had occurred had generally happened > through HUMINT sources, as with the Walker spy ring (which sold old > code books, allowing earlier traffic to be reconstructed). Black bag > jobs, bugging of buildings, etc. And I have no idea what crypto > material Aldrich Ames transferred. Indeed. The situation is analogous when it comes to other areas (such as financial fraud, corporate espionage, and so forth). A modern cipher is not going to be the weak point of most cryptosystems, unless it is intentionally crippled (cf. export restrictions to <= 40 bit keys for DES & RC4). The (publically known) "codebreaking successes" (outside of contrived academic exercises) of recent decades have not involved cryptanalysis at all. This point is also lost to most people in the Clipper debate. Too many people, I feel, are focussed upon back doors in Skipjack. This seems to me to be missing the point. Skipjack could be a perfectly good block cipher, perhaps a Lucifer/DES-style product cipher with more rounds and bigger boxes. The point of Clipper is that it would institutionalize *non-cryptanalytic* intelligence gathering capabilities. It's the digital wiretap initiative wrapped in a large red herring. The actual cipher is completely incidental. At this point in history, humans are much easier to subvert than ciphers are. Amanda Walker InterCon Systems Corporation

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Re: REGIONAL MEETING
by dmandl＠panix.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Not a good time for me, I'm afraid. I'm on the radio at that hour every Saturday (and I don't get back to the city till 3 or so). Actually, I'm missing my show that day anyway because I'm going away for the weekend. Would it be possible to do it some Sunday instead (though not the 9th, of course), or a weeknight? If not, I'll catch the next meeting, I guess (unless it's on a Saturday afternoon). Would Sunday the 16th be OK for this meeting, or do folks not want to wait that long? --Dave. P.S.: My apartment would also be available for future meetings if it's needed. At 7:43 AM 9/29/94 -0700, Sandy Sandfort wrote: >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > SANDY SANDFORT > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > >C'punks, > >I've been having Cypherpunks-physical-meetings withdrawal since >leaving the SF Bay Area. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to conjure >up a venue nor enough folks for the Cypherpunks anniversary last >month. For October, however, I've gotten a firm offer of the NYC >living room of a local Cypherpunk (Hero of the Revolution). I >also have compiled a list of a dozen and a half current C'punks >and interested fellow travellers. Unless some problem comes up, >we'll be getting together on the 8th of October at noon or so. > >If you are interested in attending, and we *haven't* communicated >already, drop we some e-mail. Also, if you know anyone who might >want to be on the Cypherpunks list, give me their contact info so >I can invite them. > >We'll have ever so much fun. > > > S a n d y > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- Dave Mandl dmandl(a)panix.com

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PGP hole
by Dr. D.C. Williams 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

FWIW, it seems that a hole has been discovered in PGP 2.6.1, 2.7, 2.6, 2.3a, and most likely earlier versions as well. Apparently, it is possible to insert cleartext within a signed message and still receive a good sig message upon verification. Interested parties are referred to alt.security. pgp for a rather lengthy thread on this subject. I haven't seen anything on the cp list yet and thought those who don't read news regularly might find this information to be useful. I can forward the entire thread via email upon request. =D.C. Williams <dcwill(a)ee.unr.edu>

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Re: PGP hole
by Dr. D.C. Williams 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> If you would, please send perhaps a breif "digest" of the thread. (Or > the entire thing, if that's easier.) The whole thread is much too long to post (and besides, it has nothing to do with bikinis or Fabio ;-) ). The gist of the problem seems to be that a signed cleartext message can be altered by adding spoofed text right after the BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE line. If the spoofed text is separated from the original text by a blank line or even a tab, PGP reports that the signature is good in spite of the added text. Apparently, the output file is a faithful version of the original message, but users who don't check that file might believe that the spoofed text was a part of the original message. I have not personally tried this yet, but the thread is full of comments from people who have, including some people who originally didn't believe it but later confirmed the existence of the problem themselves. The bug seems to be present in all versions (even the ViaCrypt versions have this problem). It has been reported as a bug to the MIT pgp-keepers. Caveat emptor. =D.C. Williams <dcwill(a)ee.unr.edu>

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Re: Cypherpunks meetings in other cities
by blancw＠pylon.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Responding to msg by Al Billings: > FYI, there have been some meetings/gatherings in >cities other than the >> Bay Area. Some that I recall: >> * Seattle. May have had a meeting. We had one (which I was at) and there might have been a second. For some reason, there hasn't been any follow-up in the last six or more months to them. ..................................................... There was a second meeting - I set it up, sent out several notices, received around 11 replies, then only 4 people showed up (2 were co-workers from MS). Maybe it's because it was a rare sunny day and everyone decided to go sailing, I don't know, but I decided there was not enough interest for me to continue making all the effort it took to get people to meet. Blanc

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cancelling a message
by Breakdown 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello to all Cypherpunk subscribers. Someone in here recently mentioned cancelling a post on USENET. It's been put to my knowledge that this is possible, but I have never known what it actually means and how it is done. Whose messages can I cancel(anyone's on the whole worldwide I-net or?) and how do I cancel them? If it helps any, I use the Tin Pl12 newsreader. Any replies are welcome. Please fill me in on this one. Thank you. Martin p.s. Hey Amanda(Walker)! :-) I didn't know you were on this list too. L8r. -- Finger <genie(a)gate.net> for a PGP key Send PGP preferrably. PEACE - Live it or rest *IN* it...

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