December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

WWW "remailers"
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

We have had some discussions here about privacy of accesses on the World Wide Web. Presently servers get a variable amount of information about the people accessing their sites, depending on the particular software being used and how it is configured. This is potentially harmful to the privacy of WWW users in that their access information can be recorded, etc. Here are some things you can do to reduce this problem. First, try connecting to: http://www.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/printenv This just displays environment variables, which shows what information about you is being received by servers. Look particularly at the lines reading HTTP_FROM and REMOTE_HOST. These may contain your user name and computer address. You may be able to remove your user name information. Some clients, including, I am told, NetScape and version 2 of Mosaic for Mac/Windows, allow you to set your email address, which is handy, but then they send it along to servers, which is harmful to your privacy. You might want to consider not setting this field and using other programs for sending mail. Also if people complain about this then perhaps the makers of this software will add an option to suppress sending the info. Even if you don't see your name in HTTP_FROM it still may be possible for somewhat more sophisticated programs to log your access if the REMOTE_HOST information is correct and you are running on a Unix system or something similar. This is done via the identd service if that is running on your computer. The server can use this service to ask for your user name once you are connected. One way to see if identd is running on your computer is to telnet to your own computer on port 113 and see if anything is there (telnet <your-computer-name> 113). If so then this is potentially another privacy exposure. I have recently been experimenting with using "proxy servers" to remove even the REMOTE_HOST information from the server's view. Proxy servers are servers which basically receive WWW connections and pass them along. Then when the data comes from the remote site they pass it back to the originating user's site. Because the proxy server is in the middle the remote site never sees the host name of the originating user. In this respect they are somewhat similar to our cypherpunk remailers, hence the title of this article. (The purpose of proxy servers has nothing to do with this function; they are designed to allow easy WWW access from users who are on firewalled sites. But they happen to serve our purposes as well.) Interestingly, the standard nntpd (nntp daemon, the master server which runs on a site which offers web pages) from CERN includes proxying capability automatically! All you have to do is to add a few lines to the configuration file. If this idea proves sound, perhaps some people running nntpd will enable proxies and serve as "remailer operators of the web". Normally proxy servers are configured to pass connections only from the machines they are there to serve (at least, they can be configured that way; I don't actually know how careful people are about this). But luckily I have found that the CERN proxy server itself accepts connections from anybody (at least, it accepts them from me!). So this is useful for doing experiments. And, the great part is, almost all web clients are set up now for proxy support. The way you enable it varies from client to client. I believe most of the Mac and Windows clients have a preferences box which allows you to put in the address of your proxy server. On Unix, you can set environment variables. Here is the suggestion from the web page at CERN: #!/bin/sh http_proxy="http://www.cern.ch:911/"; export http_proxy ftp_proxy="http://www.cern.ch:911/"; export ftp_proxy gopher_proxy="http://www.cern.ch:911/"; export gopher_proxy wais_proxy="http://www.cern.ch:911/"; export wais_proxy exec Mosaic This is a little shell script which runs Mosaic, first setting four environment variables to "http://www.cern.ch:911/", which is the proxy server I was referring to, the one which accepts connections from the rest of the world. For the purpose of the experiment, only http_proxy needs to be set. Try setting that one and then run lynx or mosaic on your unix workstation, and connect to the printenv URL above. Compare the information that is shown from what you got earlier without the environment variable. Similarly, on other machines, try the printenv test with and without proxy serving enabled using the CERN proxy. I find that the proxy server does in fact prevent the remote site from seeing my computer's address, and without that the IDENTD can't be used to reveal my name. This technique has many ramifications. For example, if a US proxy server were available, ftp could be done via Mosaic to sites which only allowed connections from American computers. People have been talking about writing special IP redirectors for this, but here it turns out the capability has been around all along. I got my information about proxies by reading: http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/Proxies/. Specific information on configuring CERN nntpd as a proxy server is in: http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/Daemon/User/Proxies/Proxies.html. Modifications to the proxy server code would be necessary to provide some additional features, such as support of encryption between user and proxy server (via the SHTTP protocol extensions, perhaps; this way you could get local privacy even when connecting to servers which did not support encryption), or possibly chaining of proxies. I think this is a fertile area for discussion and further work. Hal

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Bobby Rae's Internet Address
by werewolf＠io.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Sat. November 26/94 edition, we now have another politician to lobby online. Ontario Premier Bob Rae has publicly advised that his Internet address is premier(a)gov.on.ca I'm sure that all citizens of the Internet will welcome Premier Rae and his efforts to bring Ontario online and into the 21st century. And I'm equally sure the cypherpunk anonymous remailer system will get used more frequently.....:> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBLtgwJK+YbMzawbu5AQFDqQP+LyXrnQInpfnG4347XAXYL8JssUfMEZ1S zQl+tSN8rEkGHs85iw61R8rRfNVDXFpdlxHGZletDjSfA7aRNQ6zj/04tX4ODkX3 G10+deboLt6qZuZ6SdkMi66Brt0B6ULfIKqPMbdit7WZvYdX/tRfBKRpR7PQaWcQ t/Q/JaLhVGo= =icAy -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: bug-finder?
by sdw＠lig.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > ddt(a)lsd.com (Dave Del Torto) wrote > >>Anyone here know a source for a listening-device ("bug") detector? > > In my (very lkimited) experience this is NOT an easy thing to detect. I have > pulled apart some comercial bug detectors, usually the contain a 556 and some > LEDS witha speaker. One did actually have anoise diode and a little counter > so's to make things seemingly randmo and more real. > > In reality it is quite difficult to detect ALL bugs. Whilst at a guess most > will be FM (50-150 Mhz) there is still the possibility they use other > (prob. higher) frequencies. I good scanner might pick them up - provided it > is sensitve enough and can scan fast enough as there is quite alot of > spectrum to cover. > > Chris I thought the trick was to use a 'near-field' receiver. I saw one at the Dayton Hamvention a couple years ago for about $100. It'd receive Am audio or sync on FM (you'd here no-noise silence they said). You don't tune it: it relies on the 'near-field' effect which is something about how transmitters can induce the right harmonics in a certain type floating receiver within a short distance. The Rabbit TV extender and a stereo TV decoder used the same method: they sat on top of the TV and 'noticed' which channel you were on. sdw -- Stephen D. Williams Local Internet Gateway Co.; SDW Systems 510 503-9227APager LIG dev./sales Internet: sdw(a)lig.net In Bay Area Aug94-Dec95 OO R&D Source Dist. By Horse: 2464 Rosina Dr., Miamisburg, OH 45342-6430 Internet Consulting ICBM: 39 38 34N 84 17 12W home, 37 58 41N 122 01 48W work Newbie Notice: I speak for LIGCo., CCI, myself, and no one else, regardless of where it is convenient to post from or thru.

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Zimmermann interrogated without counsel
by Philip Zimmermann 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The following is a letter from Ken Bass, who is one of the lawyers on my legal defense team, to US Customs. It is mostly self-explanatory. It concerns the PGP investigation. For those of you unfamiliar with the PGP case, PGP is an email encryption program that is widely used around the world, and was published domestically in the USA as freeware in 1991. As the creator of PGP, I am under investigation by US Customs. They tell my lawyers that they suspect that I violated laws that prohibit the export of encryption software from the USA. If anyone wants to ask questions about this case, contact my lead defense attorney, Phil Dubois, at 303 444-3885, or dubois(a)csn.org. -Philip Zimmermann prz(a)acm.org =================================================================== Kenneth C. Bass, III (202) 962-4890 kbass(a)venable.com Venable, Baetjer, Howard & Civiletti 1201 New York Avenue, NW, Suite 1000 Washington, DC 20005-3917 (202) 962-4800, Fax (202) 962-8300 November 23, 1994 Mr. Homer Williams Acting Assistant Commissioner Office of Internal Affairs United States Customs Service 1301 Constitution Ave., N.W. Washington, D.C. 20229 Dear Mr. Williams: I write on behalf of our client, Philip R. Zimmermann, of Boulder, Colorado, to register a strong objection to the treatment given Mr. Zimmermann at Dulles International Airport on November 9, 1994, when he returned from a trip to Europe. Mr. Zimmermann was invited to Europe to speak on issues of public policy. When Mr. Zimmermann returned to the United States, he was diverted from the normal Customs processing, subjected to an individualized luggage search, and then interviewed extensively by Customs Special Agent Michael Winters. The questions posed to Mr. Zimmermann make it very clear that this encounter was not a routine, random interview, but was a pre-planned encounter. The interview was not restricted to matters relating to Mr. Zimmermann's re-entry into the United States and any proper subjects of inquiry regarding the personal effects he was bringing back with him, but ranged extensively over Mr. Zimmermann's European itinerary and public-speaking activities, as well as prior overseas trips he had taken. Of particular concern to us is the fact that Agent Winters questioned Mr. Zimmermann about possible exportation of PGP, a cryptography program developed by Mr. Zimmermann. This interview was conducted in the absence of Mr. Zimmermann's counsel, despite the fact that Agent Winters was very much aware of a pending criminal investigation involving Mr. Zimmermann who was advised in 1993 by an Assistant United States Attorney in the San Jose, California office that he was a target of a grand jury investigation concerning possible violations of the Arms Export Control Act related to PGP. Agent Winters made specific reference to this investigation in the course of his interrogation. This encounter is deeply troubling for two reasons. First, having such an interview in the absence of counsel when Customs is fully aware of the pending criminal investigation and the fact that Mr. Zimmermann is represented by counsel raises fundamental concerns about Government insensitivity to the constitutional rights of citizens, particularly citizens who are a target of an ongoing criminal investigation. The second major concern is the fact that Agent Winters told Mr. Zimmermann that he should expect to be subjected to the same search and interrogation upon every re-entry into the United States, at least until the criminal investigation is concluded. It is difficult enough for any individual to be the target of an open-ended criminal investigation that seems to have no clear direction, goal or foreseeable conclusion. It is quite another thing to be subjected to official interrogation, in the absence of counsel, about these matters. On behalf of Mr. Zimmermann, we ask that you make appropriate inquiries to determine who authorized this interrogation and why it was continued after Mr. Zimmermann expressed objection to being interrogated in the absence of counsel. With respect to Mr. Zimmermann's future re-entry into the United States, we would expect the Customs Service to strictly limit its contact with him to the conduct of such interviews, declarations and inspections as may be appropriate under 19 CFR Part 148 to determine whether he is subject to payment of any import duties upon his re-entry. As an American citizen he has a constitutional right to return to the United States and it is most improper to use such occasions as an excuse for conducting interviews that would not otherwise be undertaken in the absence of counsel or appropriate judicial process. I am sending copies of this letter to Agent Winters, the Assistant United States Attorney in charge of the criminal investigation, and Mr. Philip Dubois, Mr. Zimmermann's lead counsel in the investigation. If you require any additional information in order to respond to this request, please contact me directly. We would hope to resolve this matter quickly. Cordially, Kenneth C. Bass, III cc: Mr. Philip R. Zimmermann Mr. Michael B. Winters Philip Dubois, Esq. William Keane, Esq. -----

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Re: Need program pointers
by cwedgwood＠cybernet.co.nz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

storm(a)marlin.ssnet.com wrote: _______________________________________________________________________ I presently use Xtree Gold. It has a DoD and 6 pass Wash Disk feature for writing over usused areas of a disk/drive. So far I have been unsucessfull at recovering any data after Wash Disk with Norton Utilities or PC Tools. If there is a weakness in Wash Disk I'd like to hear about it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Actually XtreeGold doesn't wipe disks very well. It simply creates a file in (in root) as big as there is free space on the disk. This is fine provided the file have rubbish in it - but with XTG its all blank.... wash you disks then do and undelete from root and you will find a (usually large) file. Look at it - its all blank.... Because the data is all blank (zeros) an anomalie search would produce probably ALL of the data that was there originally..... I have a program (written by me) that writes pseudo-random mess to the disk for a specified number of times. I am also working on another program which clears any data that remians in the last clusters of a file (i.e. past the EOF point). DOS 7 will do this automoatically I'm told (haven't lood and the beta is too messy to bother with). Chris P.S. Sorry for extra spaces in the quoting... my comm prrogram is somewhat broken....

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PRIVACY DIGEST
by anonymous-remailer＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sat, 26 Nov 94 17:47:51 NetSurfer <jdwilson(a)gold.chem.hawaii.edu> wrote: [ commenting on the Privacy Digest post by Gary Jeffers ] The prices they were listing were comparable to shareware. This looks to fall under the "if it seems to good (cheap?) to be true, it probably is" category, based on price alone. [ end ] The copied sheets put out by Williams in Costa Rica falls into that group. I have read many xeroxes from lots of sources in my time and some most useful information have even been given to me anonymously. The problem with the entire list of what Williams is selling (and I have some 90+ per- cent of his crap) is that his very homespun assessment of U.S.A. law and case law is inventive, to say the least. He seems to be influenced by some of the kooky writers in the tax revolt movement. Thus, it really matters little if he is a sting or not. As a rule, I am always cautious when entering into a new relationship and that has kept me out of serious trouble so far. When going offshore, I always assume the worst until I have grounds for believing otherwise. And like Sandy Sandfort, I - too - have been to Costa Rica. Lots of small time villains from the States call that country their home, full- or part-time. Best to be careful about who you confide in. Getting back to NetSurfer's post: I agree that inexpensive information is often too cheap. The best way to learn the ropes are not books, reports nor newsletters and the reason for that seems to be that the best information never finds its way into print. In the world of private placements, few of the big players feel a need to spend their weekends putting out newsletters. Even if they do, they will never incriminate themselves. This is because most either live in the U.S.A. or do at least visit the U.S.A. often. In ten years, if PGP is still legal and if PGP and remailers become easier to use (embedded in wordprocessors) this may change - not the part about them going stateside often, of course, but the part about their willing- ness to speak up about how to use the tools of their trade. Meanwhile, I have found one source to be consistent, reliable and surprisingly alert throughout its several decades of publication. It is a little green news- letter called 'The Harry Schultz Letter', published by Harry D Schultz, a libertarian privacy-advocate / gold bug in Monaco. It runs around $300 a year, however, and so proves NetSurfer's point. No free samples either. For books, get yourself a free catalog with page after page of informative summaries of the books put out by a U.K. firm called Scope Int'l Ltd. They also publish a newsletter every other month or so, free for the asking, even if you never buy a book. Their newsletter deals with international cooperation agreements, offshore and privacy, second passports legally. A useful part is a 3-page long section of small classified ads from all over the globe. Sorry, I have no e-mail address for these people, but be sure to ask them when you call (/fax/write), then post the address to the list. They are: Scope, Forestside House, Forestside, Rowlands Castle, Hampshire PO9 6EE, England, Tel: +44 705 631751, Fax: +44 705 631322. There is also the 'Money Laundering Alert' newsletter put out by a Florida lawyer, ostensibly so that banks can stay on top of what is happening on the legal scene all over the world, where regulations are tightening and so on. Most readers seem to be of the Spanish-speaking variety, however. Well, I guess they have banks in Spain, too... Dadum... For now, I prefer to post anonymously. I would be interested in getting a pseudonymous account of the kind described by 'Nobody' on Friday but would want a better place than mg5n to set it up. "Capt'n Bob" P.S. to Sandy Sandfort - Sorry that I can't quite place you, I am a latecomer to the list. But I seem to recall your name from somewhere in the real world. I have even seen your C.V. somewhere a couple of years ago (sent to Europe, I think). If memory serves you are a journalist with financial experience and have written for something in Florida and for the Tico Times, too? Quite an extensive list, mostly trade magazines/newsletters. You were with some interesting guys in the late 80's, but that is all I remember from the list. Sorry. No offense meant by the P.S. above, but I am getting older and my brain is rotting, also I never keep physical files of any kind. -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6 mQCNAy7W3GoAAAEEAMQqHR+mHowjb7JsVxkCRCg0iM3uitOS2cIcctVIuXVJW6ou iumOw2zMURT5LFgGD2XHr7sre8jm9VUGWwFAaRTJB85Kj4Vy2/dGId2kK7Z/YsrE tVQDw75I8UYa3//PS5C2xCZROz5YHVEjvGcl3QqRLw8xVsgG+OZrkMibcPMNAAUR tBpUaGUtQ2FwdGFpbiAoIkNhcHQnbiBCb2IiKQ== =yrC+ -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --bob--

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PRIVACY DIGEST
by anonymous-remailer＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sat, 26 Nov 94 17:47:51 NetSurfer <jdwilson(a)gold.chem.hawaii.edu> wrote: [ commenting on the Privacy Digest post by Gary Jeffers ] The prices they were listing were comparable to shareware. This looks to fall under the "if it seems to good (cheap?) to be true, it probably is" category, based on price alone. [ end ] The copied sheets put out by Williams in Costa Rica falls into that group. I have read many xeroxes from lots of sources in my time and some most useful information have even been given to me anonymously. The problem with the entire list of what Williams is selling (and I have some 90+ per- cent of his crap) is that his very homespun assessment of U.S.A. law and case law is inventive, to say the least. He seems to be influenced by some of the kooky writers in the tax revolt movement. Thus, it really matters little if he is a sting or not. As a rule, I am always cautious when entering into a new relationship and that has kept me out of serious trouble so far. When going offshore, I always assume the worst until I have grounds for believing otherwise. And like Sandy Sandfort, I - too - have been to Costa Rica. Lots of small time villains from the States call that country their home, full- or part-time. Best to be careful about who you confide in. Getting back to NetSurfer's post: I agree that inexpensive information is often too cheap. The best way to learn the ropes are not books, reports nor newsletters and the reason for that seems to be that the best information never finds its way into print. In the world of private placements, few of the big players feel a need to spend their weekends putting out newsletters. Even if they do, they will never incriminate themselves. This is because most either live in the U.S.A. or do at least visit the U.S.A. often. In ten years, if PGP is still legal and if PGP and remailers become easier to use (embedded in wordprocessors) this may change - not the part about them going stateside often, of course, but the part about their willing- ness to speak up about how to use the tools of their trade. Meanwhile, I have found one source to be consistent, reliable and surprisingly alert throughout its several decades of publication. It is a little green news- letter called 'The Harry Schultz Letter', published by Harry D Schultz, a libertarian privacy-advocate / gold bug in Monaco. It runs around $300 a year, however, and so proves NetSurfer's point. No free samples either. For books, get yourself a free catalog with page after page of informative summaries of the books put out by a U.K. firm called Scope Int'l Ltd. They also publish a newsletter every other month or so, free for the asking, even if you never buy a book. Their newsletter deals with international cooperation agreements, offshore and privacy, second passports legally. A useful part is a 3-page long section of small classified ads from all over the globe. Sorry, I have no e-mail address for these people, but be sure to ask them when you call (/fax/write), then post the address to the list. They are: Scope, Forestside House, Forestside, Rowlands Castle, Hampshire PO9 6EE, England, Tel: +44 705 631751, Fax: +44 705 631322. There is also the 'Money Laundering Alert' newsletter put out by a Florida lawyer, ostensibly so that banks can stay on top of what is happening on the legal scene all over the world, where regulations are tightening and so on. Most readers seem to be of the Spanish-speaking variety, however. Well, I guess they have banks in Spain, too... Dadum... For now, I prefer to post anonymously. I would be interested in getting a pseudonymous account of the kind described by 'Nobody' on Friday but would want a better place than mg5n to set it up. "Capt'n Bob" P.S. to Sandy Sandfort - Sorry that I can't quite place you, I am a latecomer to the list. But I seem to recall your name from somewhere in the real world. I have even seen your C.V. somewhere a couple of years ago (sent to Europe, I think). If memory serves you are a journalist with financial experience and have written for something in Florida and for the Tico Times, too? Quite an extensive list, mostly trade magazines/newsletters. You were with some interesting guys in the late 80's, but that is all I remember from the list. Sorry. No offense meant by the P.S. above, but I am getting older and my brain is rotting, also I never keep physical files of any kind. -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6 mQCNAy7W3GoAAAEEAMQqHR+mHowjb7JsVxkCRCg0iM3uitOS2cIcctVIuXVJW6ou iumOw2zMURT5LFgGD2XHr7sre8jm9VUGWwFAaRTJB85Kj4Vy2/dGId2kK7Z/YsrE tVQDw75I8UYa3//PS5C2xCZROz5YHVEjvGcl3QqRLw8xVsgG+OZrkMibcPMNAAUR tBpUaGUtQ2FwdGFpbiAoIkNhcHQnbiBCb2IiKQ== =yrC+ -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --bob--

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A possible solution
by Aron Freed 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I was sitting down and thinking about the problem of responsibily of using non-escrowed public key cryptography. Well here is a possible answer. Law enforcement agents have several different methods of finding out about crimes that might happen. And this means they wouldn't be allowed to tap phone lines or use key-escrowed systems like Clipper. Then people who do use non-escrowed public key cryptography for illegal actions would have problems. If they are caught by other means such as tips from anonymous sources and are then caught doing something illegal and they are also using non-escrowed public key cryptography to commit these illegal acts, then the fines and jail time should be increased. This reasoning is based on the fact that we need to be more responsible with technology. Therefore, the government would allow us to go on about our business using non-escrowed key systems, but if misused by the public there would be harsher punishments to the misusing individual. There are plenty of informants out there who can help the law enforcement agencies. We use public key crypt such as PGP. They won't be able to read it, but if there is misuse and the peron is convicted of a crime and is using PGP or some other non-escrowed system to commit the crimes he was convicted of, it's more trouble for him. TO me this is the best solution and it's the only thing I would allow. The government cannot be allowed to tap our phone lines the way they would like to using CLipper or SKE or some other type of system. We need to keep our rights but we need to still make it known that PGP is not meant for corruption and illegal use. IT's meant for private conversation in it due time. I need feedback desperately on this idea. I am incorporating this idea into a two page paper called Dealing with Technology in the Future. I want this to be part of the solution. But I would like to know what others feel about this idea. Aaron 513-276-3817 voice s009amf(a)discover.wright.edu Big Government Sucks!!!

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Re: School Admins
by Jonathan Cooper 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > suspend him.' The administration, at least at my school, does *NOT* know > > how to deal with computer networks. They threatened to suspend me for > > insubordination if I didn't grep people's mail spools for obscenity - > > call me a wimp, but I shut up and did it (deleting people I knew. :) ). > > Here's hoping you sent the grep victims anonymous mail with a PGP faq. Riiight. It's not practical to bring PGP in - these AIX boxes have disk drives but the C compiler has been removed. I don't have access to another AIX box to compile PGP on, either. crypt(1) is good enough. -jon ( --------[ Jonathan D. Cooper ]--------[ entropy(a)intnet.net ]-------- ) ( PGP 2.6.2 keyprint: 31 50 8F 82 B9 79 ED C4 5B 12 A0 35 E0 9B C0 01 )

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Cell Phones Security - NOT!
by Brian.McMurry＠f844.n102.z1.fidonet.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On 24-Nov-94, Conrad Walton wrote: >Well, as one who owns an AOR 1000 radio frequency scanner that can receive >any and all cell phone conversations, I would have to say you have no >security unless you use some kind of voice encryption. In order to make you >can feel warm and safe, the manufacture or importation of scanners with >cell phone capability was outlawed by congress earlier this year, which >means that I can still listen to your call with my existing scanner while >you feel protected. Your local budget espionage shop (Radio Shack) still has a selection of scanners that pick up cellular and cordless telephones. A friend picked one up to listen to normal police/fire calls, but hasn't been able to lay a hand on it since his wife is always listening to the 'soap opera' phone calls. Often times she'll tape them. People are unknowingly giving away voice mailboxes, credit cards, and account information all the time (DTMF). --- CNet XFIDO 2.63 * Origin: *AACHEN* 818-972-9440 Burbank, CA FIDONET (1:102/844) -- : Brian McMurry - via mcws.fidonet.org - Public Access (213)256-8371 : ARPA/INTERNET: Brian.McMurry(a)f844.n102.z1.fidonet.org : UUCP: ...!bengal!mcws!844!Brian.McMurry : Compu$erve: >internet:Brian.McMurry@f844.n102.z1.fidonet.org

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