December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

RADIO SHOW ABOUT CRYPT
by Sandy Sandfort 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

C'punks, If you are in the Bay Area, tune to 88.5 FM to hear a public radio show on encryption and privacy. I'll be on for the next half hour (till 12:30 pm PDT) S a n d y

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legal rqmt for FAX return phone #
by dat＠ebt.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I thought I heard somewhere that it was illegal to send anonymous faxes -- namely, that there was some regulation that you had to program your FAX machine with your phone number so it would get sent automagically whenever you faxed anything. Essentially it was ILLEGAL to fax without providing the recipient with a mechanism to find out where it came from. Of course, I suspect enforcement is lax, but still... :-) :-( Can someone please confirm this, or help with a reference? Private e-mail is fine... -- dat(a)ebt.com (David Taffs)

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Regarding Mr. Nalbandian's Comments
by grendel＠netaxs.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Regarding some specific criticisms by Mr. Nalbandian: [1] If Joe ComputerUser does not know how to use his computer for more than word processing and playing games, at this point, he probably doesn't NEED PGP. If he knows enough to realize what little privacy he actually has, he will go looking for security. With luck, he will run into someone who can steer him towards PGP... [2] The purpose of this list is not to insure that everyone has a copy and knows how to use PGP (though most of us would consider that a worthwhile goal). As it has been said more and more often, 'Cypherpunks write CODE!'. This is a discussion group about the practicality and implementation of specific forms of cryptography and cryptographic applications (digital money, key servers, etc). [ This is not to belittle the political content of the group, though. ] Groups like the EFF are interested in helping new users to the Internet learn all about it, and are doing a good job of it so far. If you are that concerned about the masses not knowing about cryptography, try sending a note to the EFF (with the caps lock OFF!) and ask them to include a section on privacy, cryptography and PGP in the next version of the Big Dummy's Guide To The Internet. It's a start. [3] Sending badly composed rants to seven hundred people and then publically posting a response to a private message is not the way to be taken seriously. -- ========================================================================== | Michael Brandt Handler | Philadelphia, PA | <grendel(a)netaxs.com> | | PGP 2.3a public key available via server or mail | ========================================================================== People who use Elm: if you know how to create a killfile for Elm, please send me an email message telling how. Thanks.

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Re: MBone cypherpunks session...
by lile＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hey, if any of you cypherpunks have MBone access, could you see if my session is showing up in sd? I also started a bisex channel. :) -lile

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No Subject
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- lefty(a)apple.com (Lefty) says, lef> and then treats us to what he purports to be Mr. Nalbandian's phone number lef> and address. ... lef> Whoever you are, nobody, you're a hypocrite and a coward. Well, it wasn't me, but in any event I dispute this. The use of anonymous remailers does not make one a coward, any more than the use of a pseudonym does (or is your given name "Lefty")? As for the privacy aspect, I believe it may serve the interests of those who desire privacy to point out privacy lapses. Not all the time, but sometimes you have to say, "the emperor has no clothes". For example, would you object to this: an4544(a)anon.penet.fi = Eric Robison <ericr(a)Solbourne.com> an68863(a)anon.penet.fi = Derek M. Harkins <harkinsd(a)solix.fiu.edu> * an51751(a)anon.penet.fi = Joe Baptista <baptista(a)planet.org> The anonymous remailer is not so anonymous, is it? Should I have kept the information to myself, or am I right to publicize it? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCdAgUBLcqgALhnz857T+PFAQFiMgQ5ATgHyKZbvMvmj0eAgrK2skL+on77UpU0 dT9w8s70bELL7xThquMMk8HwYrj0LbMEFCwntYstN91x+uiA511qdtjP+lS/OEEN 7sHr3M8JOOeVJlv/KZjX5Whck6ETvdxzjWdrcO6AORltNe1SnI/bOI6GnrHZ7TKW 0HZ8pRak/KpxVsCTRB1kgQ== =35GC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: MBone cypherpunks session...
by lile＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>What is the point here? The MBONE isn't like usenet. Sessions aren't >free. Personaly, I'd say that frivolous use of the mbone will alienate >people. > >Perry I disagree. The MBone is here for us to use. Sessions do cost traffic but not actual dollors to individuals who actually bring it up. You may be limited by the connection you have to the Internet or by the router you have that interconnects you to the Internet though, which will determine what you can see and do on the MBone.. I also feel that such a message that I sent will be well received on the net. I doubt it's going to alienate folks. People are human and like alittle humor with the salt. :) Sad news though. I just found out that the MBone sessions I brought up are not seen outside of my site due to router setups. But I will be able to do such things in the future and you can bet I will. :) Prehaps you would feel better if I didn't actually use the term cypherpunks as you feel it might represent the cypherpunks on this mailing list. I think this is not so. Isn't that term a general one for folks who like to work with encryption and are hackers? -lile ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lile Elam | "Remember... No matter where you go, there you are." lile(a)netcom.com | Un*x Admin / Artist | Buckaroo Banzai ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Re:
by lefty＠apple.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >lefty(a)apple.com (Lefty) says, > >lef> and then treats us to what he purports to be Mr. Nalbandian's phone number >lef> and address. >... >lef> Whoever you are, nobody, you're a hypocrite and a coward. > >Well, it wasn't me, but in any event I dispute this. The use of anonymous >remailers does not make one a coward, any more than the use of a pseudonym >does (or is your given name "Lefty")? Certainly the use of an anonymous remailer in and of itself it doesn't make one either a coward or a hypocrite. However, invading someone's privacy by posting their telephone number and home address is a hypocritical act for anyone who expects others to respect their own privacy. Moreover, doing so anonymously is cowardly. And, yes, my using my long-standing nickname, "Lefty", is _quite_ different from posting anonymously. You can reply directly to me using my email address, <lefty(a)apple.com>, which appears in the header of everything I post; moreover, I am responsible for what I post using that ID. See it up there? You can easily determine who I am from that information. <lefty(a)apple.com> is, in effect, a True Name. <nowhere(a)bsu-cs.toad.com> is not. <nobody(a)jarthur.cs.hmc.edu> is not. >As for the privacy aspect, I believe it may serve the interests of those >who desire privacy to point out privacy lapses. Not all the time, but >sometimes you have to say, "the emperor has no clothes". It is not the case that anybody "pointed out a privacy lapse" here. On the contrary, someone _committed_ a privacy lapse by obtaining and posting Mr. Nalbandian's phone number and address _specifically_ as an incitement for people to harass him. This _is_ an invasion of privacy. Are you somehow failing to see that? >For example, would you object to this: > >an4544(a)anon.penet.fi = Eric Robison <ericr(a)Solbourne.com> >an68863(a)anon.penet.fi = Derek M. Harkins <harkinsd(a)solix.fiu.edu> > * >an51751(a)anon.penet.fi = Joe Baptista <baptista(a)planet.org> > >The anonymous remailer is not so anonymous, is it? Should I have kept >the information to myself, or am I right to publicize it? What you have supplied represents an invasion of privacy as well, in my opinion. If you were to explain how you came by this information, _that_ might be worth sharing, but simply presenting a mapping of anonyms to truenyms is not. -- Lefty (lefty(a)apple.com) C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:.

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Regarding Mr. Nalbandian's Comments (fwd)
by lassie!jim%lassie＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[1] If Joe ComputerUser does not know how to use his computer for more than word processing and playing games, at this point, he probably doesn't NEED PGP. If he knows enough to realize what little privacy he actually has, he will go looking for security. With luck, he will run into someone who can steer him towards PGP... Wow, word processer, so i guess that if you are just using a word processer that you don't need PGP? As usual you distance yourself from computer users by placing youself on a pedistal above them. Why is that? Do you feel superior to them? Is it something that was lacking in your childhood? I bet you could code 500 lines a day when you were in grade school. I bet you never have just used a word processer or played games on a computer? Have you? With luck somebody will give me the winning numbers to the lottery next week, too. And with wings pigs can fly. [2] The purpose of this list is not to insure that everyone has a copy and knows how to use PGP (though most of us would consider that a worthwhile goal). As it has been said more and more often, 'Cypherpunks write CODE!'. This is a discussion group about the practicality and implementation of specific forms of cryptography and cryptographic applications (digital money, key servers, etc). [ This is not to belittle the political content of the group, though. ] Groups like the EFF are interested in helping new users to the Internet learn all about it, and are doing a good job of it so far. If you are that concerned about the masses not knowing about cryptography, try sending a note to the EFF (with the caps lock OFF!) and ask them to include a section on privacy, cryptography and PGP in the next version of the Big Dummy's Guide To The Internet. It's a start. Why should I waste my time? You waste your time by writing crypto that WILL be outlawed and take no action to distribute. And as usual people on here can't see farther than Internet. They really can'nt. Must be a pedistal thing. Why write crypto or even purport it's use if you are to deprive the real people that could aid your cause the use use of "PGP" or other sutible non-CLIPPER cryptography. More people are off Internet than on.? [3] Sending badly composed rants to seven hundred people and then publically posting a response to a private message is not the way to be taken seriously. I thought there was only a couple hundred on this list? cool 700! I have no idea what you mean by public post of private message? -- * Spelling errors are intentional and international * Jim Nalbandian netcomsv!lassie!jim%lassie(a)netcom.com Tempe, Arizona, USA N7SZS(a)K7BUC.AZ.US.NA No free man shall ever be de-barred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain there right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government. <-------- Thomas Jefferson --

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Clipper on Science Friday
by Phil Karn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Today's NPR Science Friday show was on Clipper. Flatow's gFrom owner-cypherpunks Fri May 6 14:28:41 1994 Return-Path: <owner-cypherpunks> Received: by toad.com id AA13801; Fri, 6 May 94 14:28:41 PDT Received: from research.att.com (ninet.research.att.com) by toad.com id AA13790; Fri, 6 May 94 14:28:34 PDT Message-Id: <9405062128.AA13790(a)toad.com> From: smb(a)research.att.com Received: by gryphon; Fri May 6 17:27:20 EDT 1994 To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com Subject: Re: MBone cypherpunks session... Date: Fri, 06 May 94 17:27:19 EDT Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk I disagree with Perry, at least in the abstract. The mbone is not expensive, if no one is transmitting. First of all, there's no bandwidth reservation; if you're not sending anything, you don't consume anything. Second, the bits are sent only to the networks used by the recipients; a tree is constructed by the mbone routers based on IGMP (sic) packets emitted by the participants. So if IdiotS and IdiotD are having an mbone session, no one else is likely to see any impact... There are two exceptions: the IGMP packets themselves, and the sd announcements. But those are both sent once per minute or less, so they're not much of an issue. For technical information, see http://www.eit.com/techinfo/mbone/mbone.html; Rich Stevens' book ``TCP/IP Illustrated'' has a good discussion of IGMP, though I don't think he talks about mrouted, the mbone routing and tunneling protocol. Besides -- two of the important mbone tools, vat and wb, support encryption. What could be more ideal? That said, an open party line is probably a bad idea. The email load is bad enough on cypherpunks -- there's a *lot* of noise -- without having to listen to Cypherpunk Talk Radio (more likely Cypherpunk Shout Radio...) all day. But a semi-organized conference format, of a given duration, might work. It would be an interesting experiment to try. --Steve Bellovin

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Re: FW: MBone cypherpunks session...
by lile＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Gosh, I think I posted this to cypherpunks earlier... Check to see if your site has a tunnel.... If you have multicast packets coming over your subnet, you can access them via sd and other tools... To ftp them, ftp to: ftp.ee.lnl.gov The audio (vat), whiteboard (wb) & session directory (sd) tools are on ftp.ee.lbl.gov in conferencing/{vat,wb,sd}/*. The most widely used video tool (nv) is available on parcftp.xerox.com in pub/net-research. -lile ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lile Elam | "Remember... No matter where you go, there you are." lile(a)netcom.com | Un*x Admin / Artist | Buckaroo Banzai ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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