December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Statement from Zimmermann on PGP investigation
by Philip Zimmermann 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Some of you may have received my Internet message of a couple of days ago about the ongoing U.S. Customs investigation of the exportation of PGP, which has now progressed to the level of Federal Grand Jury subpoenas. This earlier message was intended by me for distribution to a very small group of friends who previously communicated their concern about me and the investigation and asked to be kept informed. I did not send the message to anyone outside this group. Unfortunately, I did not adequately assert my desire that the message not be further disseminated. It appears that the message has gone completely public. This was not my intention. My lawyer, Phil Dubois, has been in touch with the Assistant U.S. Attorney (William Keane) assigned to the investigation. We have no reason to believe that Mr. Keane is anything other than a professional and reasonable person. He made it clear that no decision has been made regarding any prosecution of anyone for any offense in this matter. Such decisions will not be made for some time, perhaps several months. Mr. Keane also made clear his willingness to listen to us (me and my lawyer) before making any decision. It appears that both Mr. Keane's mind and the lines of communication are open. My fear is that public dissemination of my message will close the lines of communication and put Mr. Keane into an irretrievably adversarial position. Such a result would not serve any of our interests. My lawyer tells me that nothing irritates a prosecutor more than being the subject of what he perceives to be an orchestrated publicity campaign. He also tells me that his nightmares involve FOAs (Friends Of the Accused), invariably people with good intentions, doing things on their own. I understand that the issues involved in this investigation are of the greatest importance and transcend my personal interests. Even so, I would rather not turn an investigation into a full-scale federal prosecution. I ask that everyone keep in mind that the government's resources are limitless and that mine are not. Speaking of resources, many of you have offered help, and I am grateful. Those wishing to contribute financially or otherwise should contact either me or Philip L. Dubois, Esq., at dubois(a)csn.org or by phone at 303-444-3885 or by mail at 2305 Broadway, Boulder, CO, 80304. Mr. Dubois has just got on the Internet and is still learning how to use it. Donated funds will be kept in a trust account, and all contributions will be accounted for. If this whole thing somehow goes away with money left in the account, the balance will be refunded to contributors in proportion to the amounts of their contributions. This message can be widely circulated on public forums. Philip Zimmermann prz(a)acm.org 303 541-0140

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more deranged lunatic ravings -- just delete 'em!
by L. Detweiler 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: "Perry E. Metzger" <pmetzger(a)lehman.com> >Why all this silly speculation? We will all know the complete answers >soon enough. There is no need for us to reach out and "investigate". ah yes, just like everyone 'soon enough' knew the 'complete answers' behind the Steve Jackson Games investigation. All we have to do is sit around and wait for it to be handed to us by everyone involved, including The Enemy. Look at that E911 investigation -- this was an example of *community* involvement. Laywers on *both* sides were unaware of the fact that E911 documents were publicly available, that they could even be *ordered* from Mountain Bell with no restriction, until someone 'out there' made the link and pointed it out -- and this was a *very* significant aspect of the defense case. >"We" need no information. We are not the attorneys. EFF and the rest >are involved and have fine lawyers and investigators. Anything "We" >uncover will be useful only for personal amusement. the situation *directly affects* us *now*. what is the scope of the grand jury investigation? could it potentially be *expanded* beyond this initial inquiry? what about sites that are currently distributing PGP outside the U.S.? what about the fact that cypherpunks have *always* been closely involved with PGP and its international distribution? >"We" don't even >have our facts right -- the "NSA" has not been directly harassing >ANYONE. say *what*?! Grady Ward has been posting for over a week on a bazillion Usenet groups that Agent X from the NSA has contacted him, with a phone number, fax, and identification standard for NSA employees (I forwarded one of his early messages here). A representative from Austin Code Works informed a Cypherpunk (who wasn't afraid to do a little poking around himself) they have been prodded by the NSA months prior over DES export. And "the NSA has not been directly harassing ANYONE." well, yes, I guess they haven't stuck anybody on the rack, if that's what you mean. >I'd calm down, Mr. Detweiler. Write some code -- its a productive >persuit. ah yes, I'm 'persuing' the sequels to PGP and Moby Crypt right now <g> you seem to be fundamentally averse to excitement. this is the Cryptographic Case of a decade, and we're all to just wait patiently for the bleached official reports prior to a proper, dainty discussion? not I. but in deference to you, Mr. Metzger, and others, I will not post any more speculation ... without some new juicy articles to speculate on :)

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Re: more deranged lunatic ravings -- just delete 'em!
by an36440＠anon.penet.fi 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>First off, 'we' ARE involved. This case is IMPORTANT, and can have far- >reaching consequences for us. This reminds me of the old story that starts >out 'they came and got the Jews, and I said nothing because I wasn't a Jew...'. Funny thing about some people on this list and alt.conspiracy, the first line of defense to accusations of hysteria is often "Look at what happened to the Jews...". The Jews didn't have professionals employed to fight for their side of the argument, didn't have the justice system to provide a legal framework within which both sides must maneuver, didn't have a lot of what prz, et al., have. >The attorneys and other experts looking at this case apparantly don't share >your lack of enthuasism. Even in the very early stages, the groundwork that You make my case. "The attorneys". What exactly are YOU doing with all your yammering, besides making a loud noise? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help(a)anon.penet.fi. Due to the double-blind, any mail replies to this message will be anonymized, and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned. Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to admin(a)anon.penet.fi.

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What can we do in the next few days?
by tcmay＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Lots of flames lately about "lunatic ravings" and what Cypherpunks can or can't do to help in the next few days. Here's my take on the situation: * Keep current, read all the various groups covering this. * Add articles and comments whenever you have something to say. Your argument might help one of the lawyers make his case. (One of "our" lawyers, one hopes.) Hal Finney's article this morning falls squarely into this category. We may have few lawyers amongst us, but we can contribute comments and background items that the lawyers may find useful. Not much time left before the grand jury convenes on Wednesday, but time to help after that. I agree of course with the sentiment that "Cypherpunks write code," or at least write text on semi-technical topics, and agree with the current focus of our group on stuff like remailers, digital cash, data havens, and the like. The EFF, CPSR, and ACLU are already focussed on issues of legal cases, privacy laws, etc., and are staffed with mostly lawyers and legal-background folks. We fill a niche they cannot fill. * Phil Karn and others have written about DES implementations that are already described, published, etc., both inside and outside the U.S. This may help with the precedent issue, namely, establishing that DES is already widely available (in case this is an important issue). In particular, see the messages a few days back about compiling a list of published DES (and IDEA, too) codings. Add to the list if you can. Cypherpunks can help on this, if they have some experience with DES, IDEA, and the like. Perhaps after the indictment (I'm guessing there'll be one) we can find out from the lawyers if our backgrounds in hacking and crypto can be tapped to help in the defense. --Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it.

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GOPHER: misc
by Karl Lui Barrus 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thanks for the feedback about links - I didn't read that far in the server.doc! It looks like I could point to the EFF gopher for legislation and stuff, if they wouldn't mind...? But, stuff I link to has to be available from another gopher, right? I mean, I just can't point to a directory on some machine and have gopher retrieve the file for viewing? Or can I? Because I definitely would like to have the RFC's and message digest stuff viewable, or pointed to. Also, will gopher uncompress a file before displaying? I think I should read the gopher FAQ :-) And look at WWW when I have some time. Also, where is the "Digital Silk Road" paper? I'd like to put the text version in the "Digital Cash" section. I'd also like to put the two reports at cwi up, but those are postscript... gopher.wustl.edu has a TANTALIZING menu item for the ftp site, but I got a connection refused message. I need to talk to Chael to see exactly what kind of disk space we have to work with - it looks like to me an ftp option retrieves files to the gopher site (chaos). I put up some more stuff, including remailer public keys, but not much more on anonymous mail and still nothing on clipper. -- Karl L. Barrus: klbarrus(a)owlnet.rice.edu keyID: 5AD633 hash: D1 59 9D 48 72 E9 19 D5 3D F3 93 7E 81 B5 CC 32 "One man's mnemonic is another man's cryptography" - my compilers prof discussing file naming in public directories

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Re: more deranged lunatic ravings -- just delete 'em!
by doug＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

erc(a)apple.com said: >Nope. That's not the point, and you know it. The point being (and I'm not >even sure why I'm bothering to explain this to you - you're intelligent) >this case has the potential to affect ALL of us, not just the participants >in the case. True. But the question is, specifically what are you suggesting "all of us" do right now? When I say specifically, I mean for instance not just "find out information about XYZ" like you said before, I mean the "and then what?" part as well. Most of us will probably do our best to learn whatever we can rather than ignoring the situation. But *then* what? What's your suggestion? >Well, scratching my crotch and looking important HAD crossed my mind. :) Besides that, I mean. :-) Doug

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Cypherbusts, etc.
by Alan E. Mason 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I just heard about the grand jury BS going down around PGP, etc, via the EFF forum on the Well and would like to do whatever I can to support the defense effort (when it comes) etc. I am a writer with some small access to local media and a big interest in the outcome of this test of our 1st amendment rights. I would also like to get on your "mailing list" if you have one. Mail should be sent to vznquest(a)netcom.com Thanks, and keep up the good work! Alan Mason

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(fwd) New Intel Slogan
by erc＠wetware.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Path: khijol!wetware!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!pacbell.com!ames!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!uunet.ca!wildcan!news2.uunet.ca!xenitec!looking!funny-request Message-ID: <S5d6.528(a)clarinet.com> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 93 19:30:02 EDT Newsgroups: rec.humor.funny Subject: New Intel Slogan From: shah(a)santur.nuo.dec.com (Amitabh Shah) Keywords: topical, smirk, original Approved: funny(a)clarinet.com Lines: 17 [This is original.] In view of the recent burglaries at computer warehouses in the Silicon Valley, where the burglars have stolen Intel's x86 processor chips, Intel has decided to use a new corporate slogan. The idea for this slogan is based on the theft-resistant stickers seen on the windows of cars in NYC. All stores carrying/manufacturing PCs made with Intel's processors, as well as the PCs themselves will now bear a sticker that says: "No Intel Inside". -- Selected by Maddi Hausmann. MAIL your joke (jokes ONLY) to funny(a)clarinet.com. Please! No copyrighted stuff. Also no "mouse balls," dyslexic agnostics, Iraqi driver's ed, Administratium, strings in bar or bell-ringer jokes. -- Ed Carp, N7EKG erc(a)apple.com 510/659-9560 anon-0001(a)khijol.uucp If you want magic, let go of your armor. Magic is so much stronger than steel! -- Richard Bach, "The Bridge Across Forever"

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re: more deranged lunatic ravings ...
by Tiffany Lee Brown 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The recent flood of rantmail between Perry Metzger, E. Carp, etc., started as an interesting and relevant argument but has degenerated to the point of annoyance. The former suggested calming down and writing some code - perhaps he could go off and do just that, rather than wasting his time (and ours) trying to keep folx from encouraging others to engage in personal investigation of an issue which concerns them. If you think writing code's the only thing to do - go do it. If you think getting people riled up about the situation is important - go do it. Yammering at each other ain't gonna make the world a safer and more private place. -magdalen

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Re: Definition of "Zero Knowledge"
by doug＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: khijol!erc(a)apple.com (Ed Carp) >Thanks for the definition (but I knew that, anyway). Sorru I wasn't clear - >what I was looking for was examples of how zero-knowledge proof techniques >could make source code impenetrable. An arbitrary algorithm can be translated into a zero proof theory model that is intractable to functionally analyze. Its operations on inputs and outputs can take place within the realm of the intractable model, with the inputs and outputs being transformed from the encoding of the outside realm into an encoding useful to the realm of the model. The inputs and outputs are the queries and answers of zero proof theory. With such a thing, knowing every detail of the registers and instructions being executed at all times still wouldn't tell you what you really wanted to know. I'm unsure whether this has been published, let alone implemented; I just thought it was an obvious corollary back when ZPT itself was first published. It might have been discussed in the literature at the time, but if so, I've forgotten. I'm also not claiming this is necessarily a useful approach in practice, because the obvious ways of implementing such a thing would be more than a little slow. I suspect that it could be done efficiently with a little algorithmic cleverness, but I don't have evidence of that this instant. I'm currently designing something with very much the same flavor, but with somewhat different goals, and computational expense of the operators in the model is precisely the difficulty with that, too, so far. Doug -- Doug Merritt doug(a)netcom.com Professional Wild-eyed Visionary Member, Crusaders for a Better Tomorrow Unicode Novis Cypherpunks Gutenberg Wavelets Conlang Logli Alife HC_III Computational linguistics Fundamental physics Cogsci SF GA VR CASE TLAs

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