December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Micropayments, Anarchy, It's All The Same... ;P
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:02 PM 6/18/96 -0700, Stephan Vladimir Bugaj wrote: >How the market diverges from the polit is clear. The market is only concerned >with consumers, and this leaves out the poor, who are undeniably part of the >polity. The poor are consumers and indeed can regularly outbid the middle class and rich for resources (if they couldn't, poor neighborhoods would never grow in size but they do all the time.) DCF

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Re: Snake_Oil_punks was Re: SafE Mail Corporation
by David E. Smith 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[Snake oil alert!] > PGP has the secret key in its public key! > > Found out that not only does this algorithm use 22 characters. > The characters are the ones only found on the keyboard. > > SafeMail uses a proprietary Russian algorithm. > > Not only is this company misquoting it's making up as it goes along. :) > > Okay, then I hereby claim the secret key 1234567890qwertyuiop+- as my public key. Now, by running that through the SafeMail Russian algorithm, I get "Nyet!" Would somebody please give these chums a clue or two, or mailbomb their sorry asses, or something? dave ----- David E. Smith, dsmith(a)prairienet.org PO Box 324 Cape Girardeau MO USA 63702-0324 http://www.prairienet.org/~dsmith/dave.html "fighting ultimate cosmic evil... ... one bean burrito at a time."

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Re: SafE Mail Corporation
by AwakenToMe＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In a message dated 96-06-18 02:34:54 EDT, sandfort(a)crl.com (Sandy Sandfort) writes: << C'punks, At 05:21 PM 6/17/96 -0400, M.Wagoner (1) wrote: > >We would like someone to be able or should I say try and >crack our encryption. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE. >Our Web site is http://www.sfmc.com Phone number is >1-800-252-9938. So I pulled up the Web site to see what sort of reward they offered to the successful cracker. Under the heading "Attention `Hackers'" they said if you crack their unbreakable SafE Mail code, you get 5 free copies of ... SafE Mail! Oh, that's a really primo prize, broken software. Duh. Since cracking their encryption is IMPOSSIBLE, I suggest they make the stakes interesting--$100,000, or hell, a cool million. After all, it's unbreakable. It's not like they will have to pay up or anything. S a n d y >> Very good point. Hell I have a book that offers $1,000 to crack a little string. How much does everyone here actually talk about the techniques of decryption?? Is is something any of you are well versed at and would welcome any questions to? Thanks..... Adam

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Recipients get the postage
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I was reading old threads on remailers, where various ideas were suggested to reduce abuse. One was to charge postage, in order to discourage spam and somewhat discourage nastygrams, as well as to compensate the remailer operator for his risks. A variant was to tell the recipient that he had anonymous mail waiting, and possibly charge him to receive it. I had a different idea, which has probably been suggested before: make the sender of the anonymous mail pay, but pass the money to the recipient. All my complaints come from people who have received mail, never from people who have sent it. So obviously the steps we take need to make recipients happier. Paying them is one way to do it. Of course there are lots of details: how much should be charged, will recipients really be so thrilled when a "fuck you" note has a nickel wrapped in it, how will they cash their checks, etc. If ecash were used this might be a motivation for people to open an account. Nym servers could be funded by the nym owners to pay for a certain number of messages. Since the nym owner ends up receiving the cash it doesn't actually cost him anything and he can easily afford to keep a pool of cash in the nym server to keep the messages coming through. Remailers which wanted to apply this rule would have to deposit the money and immediately withdraw the same amount to include in the outgoing mail. Users would basically have to trust the remailers to do this honestly. Maybe it only needs to be done when the mail goes to a non-remail end user destination, not for the intermediate links in the chain. Postings to newgroups and mailing lists would make the cash available to the first one who grabs it. It can be a fun game; we've done it here occasionally. This might also motivate people to sign up for ecash. Just a thought - Hal -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6 iQBVAwUBMcdENBnMLJtOy9MBAQFbpAH+NCq3HMN4+ar6UVWBFxvhAQ2OCu+EehX7 CgnLButTRJEM4OdOEsBaLzYBdi5bk0acelSpE/Zqj1S46bD2UQt50w== =2NAN -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Federal key registrat
by harka＠nycmetro.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-=> Quoting In:jimbell@pacifier.com to Harka <=- > "Some of our >most important prosecutions have depended on wire taps." In> But is the average citizen substantially impacted by crimes that would In> be assisted by good encryption? Probably not. And how about: "Would not the average citizen be assisted by good encryption to NOT be impacted by (certain) crimes?" And from that perspective, shouldn't the protection of millions of "average" citizens have much more importance than the "unprotection" (i.e. Clipper) of a few godfathers, who _might_ use e-mail and who _might_ use crypto? >Reno told the group that effectively regulating electronic encryption will >depend on finding a balance between protecting privacy interests while >stopping criminals from cashing in on the new technology. In> I see no need for a "balance." I think that the advent of good In> encryption has the effect of increasing the security of individuals. Absolutely. As somebody a few days ago already mentioned in connection with the CDA, the gov.'s have enjoyed a lot of centralized power so far. A medium like the Net is the antithesis to that kind of centralization. Now all over the world gov.'s try to hold on to the "old" way, which _only_ works if things are regulated, censored, outlawed etc.. That is what ensures the survival of centralized and hierarchical structures. But they are failing to realize, that people's conciousness changes _away_ from such limiting ways towards more open and natural relationships. The Net is maybe the (currently) most important medium in that process and will be hopefully the last nail in the coffin of governments, as we know 'em. Harka ... "If cryptography is outlawed, no outlaw will use clipper" -:) ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]

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Re: Class III InfoWar: TST Article
by norm＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 7:15 AM 6/18/96, Moroni wrote: > What are the effects of an EMP on the persons releasing the bomb >,those in te vacinity and what is the distance that the bomb has a >physical effect on people. Also ,is there any knowledge of reusable EMP >bombs yet? > TIA .... Interesting idea. I have no idea about impact on humans. The capacitor connected to some wierd shape antenna all assembled in a vacuume to muffle the sound upon discharge would probably be reusable. It also probably provides only a fraction of the energy of a high explosive version.

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Re: Federal key registration agency [NOISE]
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:20 AM 6/18/96 -0500, you wrote: >> Compuserve Online Today Daily Edition, 15 June 1996: >> >> Attorney General Janet Reno ... said her plan would require people to >> register with the new agency the secret codes -- or "keys" -- they use >> to encrypt messages online. > >This would be the "Bad Cop" line, for those playing along at home. Problem is, she's the one playing Good Cop. :-) # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # http://www.idiom.com/~wcs # Dispel Authority!

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Re: Federal key registration agency
by Anonymous User 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Compuserve Online Today Daily Edition, 15 June 1996: > >Speaking to the Commonwealth Club of California in San Francisco, Reno said >her plan would require people to register with the new agency the secret >codes -- or "keys" -- they use to encrypt messages online. > >Reporting on this speech, Sandra Ann Harris of United Press International >adds, "Federal authorities could then obtain the information they need to >decipher the encryptions using a court order and secretly monitor electronic >communication on the Internet the same way wiretaps are used to monitor >telephone conversations of suspected criminals." Consider the logic of this statement. If some *criminal* has registered his/her secret key with the government, then why the hell would s/he then encrypt an incrimating message knowing the government could crack it?! Great plan, Janet..... Medea

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Re: Applied Cryptography disks / EMP noise.
by Bill Stewart 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 11:43 AM 6/18/96 -0400, you wrote: > Hi, > Didn't I read that with the new Applied Cryptography there was a >diskette or cd included that had all the programs on it? I noticed a copy >at the B Dalton and when I looked at it it contained no cd or diskette. >Was the aforementioned new edition with disk/cd a limited edition >available through the mail only? If you look at the inside back cover of the book you'll find instructions for ordering the diskette, just as there were with Edition 1. Distributing the diskette with the book was too much trouble for the publisher, given the ITAR issues. The disks that Phil Karn applied for export permission for had just the code from the book typed in, and not any other material that may have been on the official disks, but they still denied it. As far as EMP goes, there are three interesting kinds of EMP generators 1) Nuclear weapons, detonated at high altitude to get wide spread EMP effects. The folks who drop such things generally clear out of the territory very fast before the explosion. 2) Mythical portable devices for attacking computer facilities - the folks who set off these don't exist, so they don't need to worry about the effects. 3) Very large capacitor/inductor banks at defense contractors like Harry Diamond Labs in New Mexico, which are used to test electronic equipment (up to airplane size) for EMP-resistance. They're supposedly quite impressive structures (the buildings used for the equipment under test are all wood) and the folks who run them are careful about lots of things when using them. # Thanks; Bill # Bill Stewart +1-415-442-2215 stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com # http://www.idiom.com/~wcs # Dispel Authority!

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Re: SafE Mail Corporation
by Black Unicorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, M.Wagoner (1) wrote: > Thanks for responding. You're lucky I even bothered to take the two minutes it required to do that. > >> We would like someone to be able or should I say try and crack our > >> encryption. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE. > > > >With the above you have saved me the trouble of even trying. > > > I can understand your reaction but this is a brand new approach to > crypotrography that no one else has thought about doing. Any approach to "cryotrography" [sic] which includes absolute statements about unbreakability (like your quote above) betrays such ignorance about the nature of the science as to render it a literal glowing neon brand on your forehead reading :DO NOT PURCHASE CRYPTO FROM THIS MAN: and accompanied by a loud speaker repeating same at 100dB. Using cow feces to encrypt messages is also a brand new approach which no one else has thought about doing. That hardly means it is worth more than the feces itself. > >Your appraoch to cryptography betrays such ignorance that nothing which > >your "corporation" produces could be of the slightest redeeming value. > > > >(Bloody snake oil venders) > > > >Now go away. > I really wish I knew what you meant by this. If I made you upset, I apoligize. It means I consider your product dirt. Cryptography is about economics. I'm not going to spend time teaching you the tenants of the science itself though it is clear you need such a lecture. Try reading "Applied Cryptography" for starters. Calling a given cypher "uncrackable" is simple fiction or ignorance. I might add that I am an attorney licensed to practice in the District of Columbia, among other jurisdictions. Having looked at your web page and the comparisons you make to PGP I can tell you without much qualification at all that it is at worst defamation and fraud. I would not at all be surprised to find that each sale of product you make constitutes a count of wire fraud (18 U.S.C.A. sections 1341, 1343) and a count of mail fraud if the product is shipped via the mails. I also believe that ViaCrypt and whoever else may have claim to the rights to market PGP commercially has a clear action of defamation, tortious interference with contract and depending on the state, unlawful sales interference. The fraud element would activate punative damages provisions. Should any of these parties come to me asking for advice I would direct them immediately to the nearest courthouse. Tell me, is your "corporation" licensed to do business in any state? Is it licensed as a corporation? Limited Liabiltiy? Many states impose sanctions, including administrative disolution and fines, for the use of misleading corporate forms or names while conducting interstate commerce (which you are clearly doing). > >> Our Web site is http://www.sfmc.com Phone number is 1-800-252-9938. > >Clearly a waste of good storage space. > > > Again thanks for your comments. Mr. Estridge, were I your attorney, and I thank my lucky stars that I am not, I would suggest that you post a retraction immediately, and forward a very polite letter of apology to ViaCrypt and perhaps Mr. Zimmerman. Maybe they are too busy to sue you, report you to the better business bureau, the FTC, or the state attorney general and the postmaster. > >> Randy Estridge > >> SafE Mail Corporation --- My preferred and soon to be permanent e-mail address:unicorn@schloss.li "In fact, had Bancroft not existed, potestas scientiae in usu est Franklin might have had to invent him." in nihilum nil posse reverti 00B9289C28DC0E55 E16D5378B81E1C96 - Finger for Current Key Information Opp. Counsel: For all your expert testimony needs: jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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