December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Children, the Net, and Dead Modems
by mpd＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

My Zoom 14.4k modem just caught on fire. Therefore, there will be a sudden interruption of my participation in our friendly Sunday afternoon flame war on children, the Net, and other related issues. I found an 11 year old Hayes Smartmodem in a heap of junk in my closet. I think it will do 1200. This is the second time my Zoom modem has burned up unexpectedly after being replaced under Warranty, in case anyone is thinking of buying one. -- Mike Duvos $ PGP 2.6 Public Key available $ mpd(a)netcom.com $ via Finger. $

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Re: FW: No SKE in Daytona and other goodies
by Blanc Weber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Jim Dixon If you see a guy skulking in a dark alley with a gun, a knife, and a large club, do you debate whether he is of necessity about to use them? ........................................................................... No, but maybe he wouldn't be planning to use them on *me*. Maybe he was chasing a burglar or pedophile; maybe he was in danger of being abducted by little green men from Mars; how would *I* know what he was doing out there in full armor? I could watch and wait, with my cam-corder ready in case anything really interesting really happened. Blanc [Unoffical Job-related Disclaimer: I confess . . . . . . . that I am not yet ready to confess.]

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swell discusions[D[D
by Brian D Williams 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Gee, I'd sure like to participate in all these neat discussions going on here on cypherpunks today, but I'm busy examining these disgusting GIF'S that some sick mind uploaded to all these sites in Tennessee...... Brian Williams Extropian Cypherpatriot "Cryptocosmology: Sufficently advanced communication is indistinguishable from noise." --Steve Witham "Have you ever had your phones tapped by the government? YOU WILL and the company that'll bring it to you.... AT&T" --James Speth

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Re: Philadelphia Enquirer Story on Clipper
by frissell＠panix.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 06:55 AM 8/1/94 -0400, Duncan Frissell wrote: >Course the 1st Amend. was specifically designed to eliminate the nasty >British habit of licensing newspapers. Driving licenses weren't mentioned >in that document. Have their been any licensing proposals for the >Information Stupor Highway yet? If the Supremes will let me burn a cross, >isn't it likely that they will let me log on? To further answer myself... Note that we have had telephones for more than 100 years without any licensing of telephones in this country. In fact, the telephone companies were prohibited from denying service save on a number of narrow grounds. And that was in a much tighter regulatory environment than seems destined to exist in the future. DCF "License Communists -- not Workstations"

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Re: Children and the Net
by gtoal＠an-teallach.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: "James A. Donald" <jamesd(a)netcom.com> Yep. They thought that was really great. > Will you be upset > if they try this at home? At the age of three Jim figured out that death was permanent and extremely serious. It was just a real shame you had to kill your kid's dog with a sharp spike up one nostril to make the point though ;-) G

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Re: Children and the Net
by Graham Toal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Mike Duvos <mpd(a)netcom.com> A doctor at Baylor University Medical Center was asked later why this didn't cause the removal of the children, and said that while such behavior would certainly be considered abuse in a medical sense, it did not meet the legal definition of abuse according to the laws of the State of Texas. Texas, of course, is the leader on the national corporal punishment bandwagon and dishes out over 250,000 state-sponsored beatings every year in its public school system. So far all efforts to ban the practice have been successfully opposed by the teachers union. Come off it, the benefits of a teacher giving your kid the strap at the time of an offence far outweigh the harm done. I find it really hard to believe there are places in the world where it's criminally illegal for teachers - in some places, even parents - to apply corporal punishment when necessary. Anyway, it's biggest benefit is that it teaches kids a healthy disrespect of authority and shows them the pretence behind politics, 'voluntary' taxation etc etc. The people with the physical force are in charge. I think that's a lesson all kids should be made to learn the hard way. G

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Re: Crypto Takes a Backseat (NYET, Children, etc.)
by Blanc Weber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Children, Censorship, Pornography, & Who's Right It Is to Interfere: I have asked myself at times what I would do about abuse towards a child if I were to become personally aware of one, as well as what would be the proper resolution to the fact that freedom & liberty means exposure to not only the best, but the worst that is possible in humans. I couldn't accept interfering with a family and their progeny; I couldn't advocate setting up a body of overseers to pretend that they are the ultimate authority on how to raise the young to become at least as perfect as their elders. I have settled upon the idea of alternatives: when alternatives are existent, those who need and are searching for what these alternatives provide will be able to overcome the attempted influences upon their minds & bodies; if there is a place where children could go if they found their life at home abusive or unbearable (and they were aware of this place, or these people) then they themselves could seek relief & assistance there. If they were restricted or limited in their contacts at home, then they could go to wherever else other access to information is available (and don't children accomplish this, anyway, usually to the surprise and consternation of their parents?). I think the best solution would be to make available the kind of assistance which children themselves could take it upon themselves to seek at their discretion, if they thought their situation called for it. What could anyone object, if a child was to make their discomfort & unhappiness apparent by seeking the help of another who was willing to come to their aid? This would not be interferance, but still satisfy the desires of those who have concerns about injustices to the vulnerabilities of kids. In an open environment where all things are possible, where you never know what you're going to get (in that box of chocolates), it would be best to have recovery systems in operation where the damage would be limited and correction would be possible & easier to achieve. Intelligence should make its impression upon the lives of free individuals above what the limited concepts and fears of some would propose. This implies open discussion, communication, the ability to present a better view of life, better ideas, and wiser alternatives. Children like to know that their parents care for them, that their parents are interested in their physical & mental welfare. I think that they would prefer the guidance of their parents above that of strangers, that they would prefer that those whom they admire could provide the best counsel to them, and to give their parents the credit for having the best judgement on the block. But if sympathetic guidance & open discussion is not a part of their family's atmosphere, this leaves the seeking mind to find other sources of knowledge about the way the world works, and other sources of seeming authority to fill in the vaccuum. I think that the future is calling for much preparation of the intellect towards a greater ability to deal with the abstract while not leaving the level of the concrete (not that this isn't always important). The technological innovations which are continuously being created, improved, advanced require that a person be facile in dealing with new & advanced concepts as well. This also requires that a person be able to maintain their contact with the real world and not go off in ignorance with an imagination which lacks a knowledge of real processes and of how things (life, social systems, income, etc.) are made possible. The challenge of the new frontier is magnified in the world of ideas & information; if the individual (child or adult) is to be free to indulge in all the new toys being made available, then they must have a way to deal with what s/he will confront there on every level, for personal efficacy and for effective self-defense against the things which one would/should not choose to tolerate, whatever one's age group. Blanc [Enlightening Disclaimer: These comments are derived from my own intellect, not my employer's.]

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RE: Big Brother's Escrow Systems
by Blanc Weber 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: Greg Broiles Humm. Do Microsoft shareholders know that the company is being run in order to empower folks, as oppposed to making money? I must confess that I was (until now) unaware of that. .................................................................... Shareholders only know that software with uncalculable benefits is being produced & being widely accepted for no discernible reason, with profit being an unintended side effect which they can take advantage of. Blanc [Disclaimer: I can't represent my employer from here, but wait till I get my own pc.]

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Re: Lawsuits Against PKP
by sidney＠taurus.apple.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hal <hfinney(a)shell.portal.com> writes: >That makes my day. The name Schlafly sounds familiar (I don't mean >Phyllis). Roger? Does anyone know a crypto person with this name? I haven't yet seen the details on the lawsuit, but I would guess that it is Roger Schlafly, unless the name is more common than I think. He was at Borland when I used to work there, and was into numerical methods kind of stuff. I was told that he is Phyllis Schlafly's son, but he did not give the impression being someone of her political or cultural orientation, not that I ever heard him talk about political issues. -- sidney <sidney(a)apple.com>

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Re: Children and the Net
by nobody＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

gtoal writes: "Come off it, the benefits of a teacher giving your kid the strap at the time of an offence far outweigh the harm done." i disagree. how do you know corporal punishment wont be 'appealing' to the children, so like when they grow up they cant wait to take a strap to their kids and so on down the line? strapping is not a solution to a childs problems, if you cant help a child work out his problems through verbalization youre a pathetic parent!

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