December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Social punishment 1/3: law without enforcers
by blancw＠pylon.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Responding to msg by rishab: The system of social punishment can easily be adapted to educated, liberal inhabitants of cyberspace, much more easilty than can present law enforcement systems. My next post will examine the similarities between tribal and cyberspatial society. ........................................................ I don't know yet what you are going to say about the similarities between tribal & cyberspatial societies, but one thought which immediately struck me in your sentence is that you are putting two very different ideas of society into the same category. The associations which occur in cyberspace are not like the ones which occur in the physical plane. The expectations are different - you don't expect to live with these other people in close proximity, you don't expect to identify with them as a group in the same way, you are not going to get the same benefits on a daily basis or even an extended time period, as you might from those with whom you interact on more than one level or kind of contact. I personally don't see interactions in cyberspace as constituting a 'society', even if they are 'social'. Maybe a drive-by society. Maybe drive-by law enforcement. :>) Blanc

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Re: NYT Fears Cypherpunks
by blancw＠pylon.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Responding to msg byJohn E. Kreznar: More useful than the rulers-ruled division is the division into those who gratuitously accept the benefits of government (usually without even realizing that this is why government gets so big), and those who scrupulously avoid gratuitous involvement with government. The latter are an infinitesimal fraction who are being overwhelmed by the former. ................................................................. .......... The latter must find a way to live their way in spite of the rest of them. It's the individual against the mindless State, you know. (or the Mindless Condition) Blanc

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Re: AIDS testing and privacy
by doug＠OpenMind.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May writes on the subject of racist hiring practices: >(It's also part of Libertarianism 101 that such a company would not >likely do well in this day and age. Before you cite America's racist >past, read up on who it was that enforced segregation. Hint: not the >corporations. Ditto for South Africa (the "other" RSA), where the >Apartheid Laws came into being because companies were looking to hire >blacks and coloreds to fill job position, and the whites didn't like >that much.) I'm not sure I buy this argument... who is it that "enforces" discrimination based on sexual orientation, today? If sexual orientation is a matter of status, rather than choice, then this form of discrimination is analogous to racism. Would you suggest that employers that refuse to hire homosexuals are simply bowing to the pressures of society at large? Unlike Apartheid, there are no laws that *enforce* discrimination based on sexual orientation (at least in the USA). In a fundamental situation of conflict between two entities, I agree that "anything goes", in the spirit of voluntary interactions between two entities. In the case of a conflict between a small number of large, powerful entities (corporate employers) and a vast number of small, powerless entities (the employment pool), I don't see how you can argue that this vast horde should not team up and utilize whatever means to achieve an advantage over the few in power. Today and in the future, "power" may reside increasingly in economic positioning. Thus, the power of the many individuals vs. the power of the few corporate entities may derive largely from their collective voice in the social conventions of society at large, which ultimately derives power from the tax base of the society at large. As long as these social conventions (and the tax base that empowers them) is in place, I see nothing wrong with the "voluntary interaction between individuals" which consists of banding together to pass, and enforce, laws in favor of the goals of these individuals. This is the basis of democracy. Along a similar vein, Blanc Weber writes: >... just remember in the real world no one is required >to be kind. If some hospital or company makes a decision to >deny service for whatever reason they justify to themselves, >it's their call as long as they are not owned by the State. In the real world, the voting public is not required to be kind to the hospital or the company, either. If a large political block can put into place structures (laws and enforcement) which effectively provide coercion against such denials of service, this is fair play as well. Doug ___________________________________________________________________ Doug Cutrell General Partner doug(a)OpenMind.com Open Mind, Santa Cruz ===================================================================

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Karl Hess Club-L.A. area
by j.hastings6＠genie.geis.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, and let me remind you, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." -- Karl Hess Libertarian, anti- and pro-Party, joint meeting: VAN NUYS (the Valley) CALIFORNIA U-S-A- ------------------------------------------------ The following text was written by SEK3: --- T H E K A R L H E S S C L U B --- invites you to our fourth meeting on Monday, September 19, 1994 Joseph Miranda asks us, COUP D'ETAT, U.S.A.? Soon? And...So What? Seven Days in May. Now, The Enemy Within. Is a military takeover of these United States still a possibility? Can it happen here? And...who would care? Would a dictatorship be worse than democratic oppression? Would State trains...or buses...run on time? Could more be privatized? Come and find out. Feel free to join in the...interrogation! MC for 4: Mike Everling TIMES: 7pm dinner. 8 pm Libertarian Party presentation. 8:15 announcements 8:30 pm Joseph Miranda speaks! PLACE: Van Nuys Dugout, 14032 Oxnard Street 1 block from Hazeltine, in the Valley, at last. (p.15, E6, Old Thomas Brothers, says Mike). Or call Dugout at (818) 780-9458. DINNER: $12 each, includes soup or salad, garlic bread, coffee or iced tea, and a potato (baked or fried) (except with first entree choice) and one of four entrees: Spaghetti with meatballs, Fried Chicken, Fried Filet of Sole, or Acapulco Special (ground beef, cheese, onions & ortega pepper). Dessert extra. Full bar at hand. No charge for presentations only, of course. BUSES: The 420 is the most frequent, all-night bus in the Valley, running all the way downtown. NEXT MONTH: Oktoberfest -- and Elections! Kent - j.hastings6(a)genie.geis.com Ham radio AX25: WA6ZFY @ WB6YMH.#SOCA.CA.USA.NA -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3 iQCVAgUBLm6XFzQYUX1dU7vxAQGutQQAvoNqZ214bQM3r+ECEF4TaoRJusOB9eLk UiC4PWVyaSuL4Yd4gp45pzRGGxW5sp9oNMXtEkQottGoBdNRGkwXYEyKUfVB9MvZ Tymc9yaGAvDr24vP4XIRXEf33tITS0KkYDf/qO7Ozv/fT2j2zS+7SOgDH4jp5brc y2VLs5uFX3Y= =xueN -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Fwd: FBI RAIDS SMALL MICHIGAN RPG COMPANY
by L. Todd Masco 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Interesting tidbit, forwarded to me by a friend. ------- Start of forwarded message ------- From: tucholka(a)aol.com (Tucholka) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.announce Subject: FBI RAIDS SMALL MICHIGAN RPG COMPANY Date: 7 Sep 1994 13:09:02 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) OK, there have been some wild rumors about the FBI raid on Tri Tac Games just after GENCON. Lets set them straight. FBI RAIDS SMALL GAME COMPANY PRESS RELEASE At 10am Tuesday morning, August 23rd, a special tactical team from the FBI gained swift and overwhelming entry into the corporate offices of Tri Tac Games in Pontiac Michigan to the great surprise of the entire staff who were still sipping coffee. Richard Tucholka, owner and president of Tri Tac, was duly informed of his rights as the squad of federal agents neatly and politely searched the offices of Tri Tac claiming to be looking for 'phony FBI Identification Badges' and 'Illicit government operation manuals.' It is to be noted that Tri Tac Games publishes an award-winning Role-Playing Game called Bureau 13, detailing the adventures of a secret division of the FBI which uses magic and Harrier Jump Jets to defend America from supernatural criminals and monsters. After painstakingly searching everything from the yet-to-be released CD ROM computer game version of Bureau 13, through the paperback copies of the Cult -hit novels from Ace Books in New York, absolutely nothing incriminating or illegal was discovered-- an incident close to the precedent setting invasion of Steve Jackson Games a few years ago by the US secret service which resulted in a major lawsuit rightfully won by the innocent game company. In preparation for another government visit, Mr. Tucholka has informed his lawyer, alerted the media, and set an extra pot of coffee to brew for the agents if they return. **************** Yes, it happened. No kidding. Apparently some fool at GENCON thought a $1 double sized Plastic ID badge on flaming orange and pink paper was a threat to national security. These badges were given to players of Bureau 13 as promotional material. **************** The agents were professional and Tri Tac cooperated with them. Computers were not touched (It is a federal law that a writers 'Works in Progress' may not be taken.) They removed plastic Bureau 13/FBI ID badges from a display shelf and versions of a Department of Justice ID badge produced by Databank Press. On Thursday the 25th Richard Tucholka was informed that the Federal Prosecutor would not be pressing charges for the badges because there was no malice or intent in their production. There would be a file established at the FBI with these badge examples for future reference. He was instructed to send in all production copies and masters as well as destroy the ID Badge Computer Graphics file in question. Richard Tucholka shook his head and said "Only an idiot could think these badges were real. Wonderful to see my tax dollars at work." And that's the story. 8)

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internet pricing paper
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hope that this is new to everyone here-- === \\ Paper: ewp-comp/9401001 From: Hal Varian <hal(a)alfred.econ.lsa.umich.edu> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 14:58:07 -0500 Title:Some Economics of the Internet Author:Jeffrey K.~MacKie-Mason Hal R. Varian Institution: University of Michigan, Dept of Economics WPA References: None Comments: Postscript file submitted via ftp in compressed format. \\ This is a preliminary version of a paper prepared for the Tenth Michigan Public Utility Conference at Western Michigan University March 25--27, 1992. We describe the history, technology and cost structure of the Internet. We also describe a possible smart-market mechanism for pricing traffic on the Internet. \\ \\ Paper: ewp-comp/9401002 From: Hal Varian <hal(a)alfred.econ.lsa.umich.edu> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 94 15:00:22 -0500 Title:Pricing the Internet Author:Jeffrey K.~MacKie-Mason Hal R. Varian Institution: University of Michigan, Dept of Economics WPA References: None Comments: Postscript file submitted via ftp in compressed format. \\ This paper was prepared for the conference ``Public Access to the Internet,'' JFK School of Government, May 26--27 , 1993. We describe some of the technology and costs relevant to pricing access to and usage of the Internet, and discuss the components of an efficient pricing structure. We suggest a possible smart-market mechanism for pricing traffic on the Internet. \\ The easiest way to locate these papers is to do a Veronica search on the string "Economics of the Internet". If you can only handle ftp, the documents are archived on the anonymous ftp server in the Department of Economics at Washington University. ftp:econwpa.wustl.edu:/econ-wp/comp/papers/9401 The two papers whose abstract appears above are in compressed postscript form as, 9401001.ps.Z and 9401002.ps.Z

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PGP mail netiquette
by Raph Levien 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I've been thinking about the netiquette of sending PGP mail messages to people, especially "people you've never met." There are some people who publicize the existence of their PGP public key in their .sig or .plan or whatever, but do not like to actually receive PGP encrypted mail because it is such a hassle to decode. Others, like myself, have PGP integrated in their mail, so it's no problem. I would be quite pleased if every single piece of email I received was PGP-encrypted. How to tell us apart? I've placed the line "PGP encrypted mail is very welcome!" into my .plan. Others who have automated mail decryption, or who just like typing PGP command lines, might find it useful to do something similar. Just my $2E-2. Raph -- Raph Levien raph(a)cs.berkeley.edu PGP encrypted mail is very welcome! -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.3a mQA9Aitm+zMAAAEBfiyEycCjO+sar1wmxy2RkCBjyr5+4JH/u5DLOvfLHsguqKB5 TwdxjrRkbio+Q+cdiQAFEbQoUmFwaGFlbCBMLiBMZXZpZW4gPHJhcGhAY3MuQmVy a2VsZXkuRURVPg== =jc6E -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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timestamps
by broadley＠turing.ucdavis.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I heard that timestamp(a)lorax.MV.COM was down and/or notworking. My recent ping worked, I received a PGP signed copy of my message back after about 24 hours. -- Bill Broadley Broadley(a)math.ucdavis.edu UCD Math Sys-Admin Linux is great. http://ucdmath.ucdavis.edu/~broadley PGP-ok

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Re: CONTROL FREAKS (nee, AIDs testing and privacy)
by alano＠teleport.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > SANDY SANDFORT > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > >C'punks, > >In response to Duncan's post which said, in part, that developing >countries could not afford totalitarianism, Alan Olsen opined: > > The nature of control freaks is that they ignore the > actual costs of their actions.... Do they really think > of the financial costs associated every little decision > designed to control our lives? The true concern is > *POWER*... > >Well to paraphrase Star Trek's Scotty, "They canno' change the >laws of economics." What would-be totalitarians want, and what >they can get, are two different things. The massive Soviet Union >took three-quarters of a century to grind to a halt. It would >have been much quicker, but for the Czar's strong agricultural >and burgeoning industrial base, "liberated" German technology, >the absorption of richer, more savvy Eastern Bloc countries and >massive infusions of capital, food and technology from the West. But it is also the case that industrial countries, when they fall on hard times tend to fall back on an authoritarian "bread and circuses" approach to governing. Fascism in 1930's Germany was one such govenment. The current government was unable to deal with the financial and social problems and so reactionary elements were able to seize control of the government and impose their own brand of totalitarianism. (Remember that Hitler was elected.) I think that this country is ripe for such a movement. We have a number of groups that are ripe for scapegoating. We have the economic conditions (although this seems to be changing for the better...). We have the control freaks just wating to gain the power and more waiting in the wings. They have the money and they have the technology. And they have a population that is willing to give up alsmost any right to gain "security". > >The underdeveloped countries, on the other hand, don't even have >"seed corn" to eat--unless we give it to them. Let them try to >go down the totalitarian road; if they do, they are doomed to >self-destruct. > >History and technological progress are on our side. There will >be some temporary, local setbacks in the coming years, and have >some mopping up to do, but we've already won. Don't be too smug yet... There are people in power who have not figured out that totalitarian states cannot survive. (They also do not seem to care about the long run.) All they are concerned about is making people follow their rules under their conditions. Logic and reason have nothing to do with the "thought patterns" of these people. Besides, it is not their money they are spending on this. It is yours. As far as I have been able to determine, the only thing that you can do with a control freak is to kill him before he obtains any position of power. (Or wrap him in duct tape and feed him lots of Thorazine(tm).) /========================================================================\ |"I would call him a Beastialic Sadomasochistic | alano(a)teleport.com | |Necrophile but that would be beating a dead | Disclaimer: | |horse." -- Teriyaki (What's up Tiger Lily?) | As if anyone cares! | \========================================================================/

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Title VII v. Liberty
by Matthew J Miszewski 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Granted I deleted about 1000 messages before starting to follow the thread (tangental at best to crypto...) but... Title VII of the CRA covers the already illegal actions of Tim's hypothetical firm refusing to hire Blacks. Granted Tim firmly believes this kind of law is a bad idea, but nonetheless it is the law. To avoid the flame, yes I am wel versed in Libertarian ideals, save it, i already subscribe. As to sexual orientation, um no federal law protects the class. And yet magic- ally, massive discrimination exists. This is a natural result of the condition of falesly free markets. To those involved with Libertarian causes, a free market player in this example would openly admit that th basis of orientation, but they dont. They also hide their racist activities. I in no way suggest all corp's are involved in this activity but if you deny it exists Id like to live in your world. Sometimes intervention works. Granted, usually it does not. But removing the regs now would work to do one thing - perpetuate the past effects of discriminatory intent in today's world. Flame on! - Matt ______________________________________________________________________________ In defense of liberty, encrypt for all purposes, civil and professional. In defense of privacy, encrypt all correspondence, personal and professional. In defense of sanity, do not encrypt your dry cleaning invoice! ++++++++--------mjmiski(a)macc.wisc.edu (c)1993

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