- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: Anyone have the complete info on CP list alternatives?
by Mark M. 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Bill Campbell wrote: > However, I'm very confused on just what to do at this > point, my news server doesn't see alt.cypherpunks > yet and if it did would probably lose about 75% of > the posts if past performance is to be any indicator. > (Or more accurately, would never get them, we seem > to be a bottom feeder here in South Florida as far > as the newsgroups go.) > > Has anyone composed a concise summary of just > what the options are? Time is running out, I guess. Here's my understanding of the situation: - Newsgroups alt.cypherpunks, alt.cypherpunks.announce, alt.cypherpunks.social, alt.cypherpunks.technical have been created. - The distributed list is still forming and so far consists of cypherpunks(a)algebra.com, cypherpunks(a)ssz.com, and others of which I do not know the location. A mail<->news gateway is planned, but not yet in place, between the distributed list and the newsgroup(s). cypherpunks(a)algebra.com is receiving messages from cypherpunks-unedited. I assume this means that the other hosts part of the distributed list are also receiving cypherpunks-unedited messages. - Lance Cottrell is running another list (cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net) that is not yet part of the distributed list. It is also receiving feed from toad.com. If you don't want to miss any messages, then you should subscribe to both cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net and one of the distributed list nodes. Since both are receiving cypherpunks-unedited, you can safely unsubscribe from cypherpunks-unedited, -flames, or the "main" list. Since these lists have overlapping content, you should delete duplicates. Mark -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBMwif+CzIPc7jvyFpAQEBJwf/T3y22R0W30Sp26Ub4ntH3miJRUBlv9nO GLZqRzT5JI4Ux9Ml6by0aAKxKiOH/mTGuu5ELogsC6hv50F/GKtmQv9kdqTukoJq 19j7WuGCDflve2IPWo9/vSvcJpLBAcGwBnVIOiS8wBR9tz42GxpM/y+/eZgYfYWS OnQHqOA+fDWrKmdNj+3EHuMWXHLoGTILVpX2UGBpFDGZEgoZNM56Oj9CWU5NU3cn 4De/fS5M5L3AO/SGRNQ6CSTqYsixdniapamBdHWeURasvy2iD7Xyxq7li4DzL1VE LB+1qo6AHrmRlS3+4cv3xA+9hsNpFoW0FsicN8sVUP0pGl0ADEVXKA== =HKTe -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: The Offending Stronghold posts...
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 12:02 PM -0500 2/17/97, John Young wrote: >Return-Path: cypherpunks-errors(a)toad.com >X-Sender: jya(a)pop.pipeline.com >Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 13:17:32 -0500 >To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com >From: John Young <jya(a)pipeline.com> >Subject: Who's Censoring Who? >Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com > >Sandy's e-mailed several of us who've sent messages about Vulis's >ploy to put Sandy in a conflict-of-interest bind -- a well-known attack >on moderators of all kinds, not just on the net. Interestingly, I don't recall getting any e-mail from Sandy telling me he was not passing on my messages to either the Main or the Flames list...my messages were simply dropped on the floor. (Others, including John, have said they sometimes got nice Sandygrams explaining why their items were deemed unsuitable for either of the lists. Sandy may have considered it pointless to send me an explanation....) >It's probably worth saving accusations of censorship for the real thing, >after trial usage here for what is truly nasty high-stakes global info-war >gaming. As John likes literary references, recall William Burroughs' warning about "the policeman inside." I can't share John's belief that we should ignore censorship on the CP list (especially messages going to neither of the two specified lists, without notice). Waiting "for the real thing" is not a clear-cut issue, as explicit censorship of political views is not likely to happen in our lifetimes in the U.S. However, "self-censorship," a la the V-chip, the mandatory voluntary labeling of CDs, etc., is becoming the favored route. And the use of the legal system, or threats to use the legal system (a la threats made to Vulis, Against Moderation, etc.) is part of the bullying pulpit (this pun inspired by John's flights of rhetorical fancy). >[Note: Thorn, "cuckoo" and TCM responded to this; none were forwarded >to the cp-edited list, AFIK.] One of the interesting, and utterly predictable, consequences of "silent suppression" of some messages is that those on the unedited list, who see all traffic (for the nonce), get to engage in conversations which are subsequently suppressed so that several of us are having a conversation the main list (and the flames list) are oblivious to! This has had the fascinating effect of having people outside the conversation (as an example, Blanc Weber) gradually figuring out from "approved" messages that something is going on behind the scenes...they they send us messages (as Blanc did) asking what the hell is going on, what we're obliquely referring to. When the excised material is forwarded to them (as I did with Blanc), the reaction is often "Wow! I didn't know." As conversational threads are often so tangled, and become so much more tangled with time, the job of the censor gets more difficult as time passes. Not only must he excise all mention of banned topics, he must also be alert to later discussions making mention of the act of banning, or of the topics. This is territory well-covered by Orwell, of course. The rewriting of history is a full-time job. --Winston Smith Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by snow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Mr. May wrote: > Some legal scholars are claiming that there is no provision in the > Constitution guaranteeing anonymity of purchases, and, indeed, a growing > number of purchases can no longer be anonymous--guns, explosives, chemicals > of various sorts, etc. How long before _all_ transactions must be recorded, > True Names revealed, etc.? This is where I often get a little confused. Correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that the constitutuion was _not_ a document that explicitly spelled out what writes _I_ had, but rather spelled out fairly precisely what the _government_ was allowed to do. In otherwords, the Constitution does not restrict _me_ rather it restricts the _feds_ (and the Feds alone). My rights are WHATEVER ISN'T IN THE CONSTITUTION, and the government can only, ONLY do what the constitution says it can. ???

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Constitution and a Right to Privacy
by Timothy C. May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 1:22 PM -0600 2/17/97, snow wrote: >Mr. May wrote: >> Some legal scholars are claiming that there is no provision in the >> Constitution guaranteeing anonymity of purchases, and, indeed, a growing >> number of purchases can no longer be anonymous--guns, explosives, chemicals >> of various sorts, etc. How long before _all_ transactions must be recorded, >> True Names revealed, etc.? > > This is where I often get a little confused. > > Correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that the >constitutuion was _not_ a document that explicitly spelled out what writes >_I_ had, but rather spelled out fairly precisely what the _government_ was >allowed to do. > > In otherwords, the Constitution does not restrict _me_ rather it >restricts the _feds_ (and the Feds alone). > > My rights are WHATEVER ISN'T IN THE CONSTITUTION, and the government >can only, ONLY do what the constitution says it can. > > ??? But why do you not object that the "right to free speech," "the right to keep and bear arms," and so on, are specifically enumeratedin the Bill of Rights? The privacy issue is that there is no such enumeration of a right to privacy in the Bill of Rights, though many think it to be implicit in some of the other enumerated rights, e.g,, the Fourth, and even in the First. Constitutional issues are not easily discussed in short messages like this. Suffice it to say the issue of whether a "right to privacy" exists has been long discussed, most recently by Bork, Posner, and others (I skimmed the latest Posner book a while back, and liked his style). The issue hit when abortion advocates argued that a "woman's right to privacy" allowed abortions. However, none of the enumerated rights made this obvious. Bork has opined that no right to privacy can be inferred from the Constitution. (And I always thought the "woman's right to privacy" argument for abortion was flaky. Accepting such an argument, wouldn't infanticide be equally protected by a woman's right to privacy?) --Tim May Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside" We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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##$!@#$#@!$#
by Japhy Ryder 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

cual es la fecha? czesc, tak mal na dodjze kajka.... -- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzLvsCAAAAEEANHTflxW1D4mB/h3dnEV7K1jzXvmBOrSh+EHbkCn+ZjLislg LW51QG9CuS81VaHx75xdxV1C11RXJybaqqrtT186aQfmEuTQP0rLJYy859xdHpcu DldUZ9ry3xXACtQAk3bPlvo6Yd3TmucoPXDl55w95Hru+H7TIzR2UortBxKZAAUR tAtKYXBoeSBSeWRlcg== =0WVf -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

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Re: Cypherpunks afraid of spam?
by Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Fri, 14 Feb 1997 aaron(a)herringn.com wrote: > [Fairly prominent Cypherpunk I'll decline to name- I don't mean to ridicule > him personally, just his (distressingly common) attitude] Hey, I can take the heat. But I'm afraid you missed my perhaps too-terse point. > >Just for the record. I will not post to USENET given the spamming that > >seems to go to IDs that appear there. > > [chuckle] > > Just add an anti-spam segment to your email address. > > example: > > jsmith[at]foo.com > It's not that simple. Consider: 1) I stopped learning more about new computer tools than the minimum needed to do my work a long time ago, when I stopped programming and started lawyering. It wasn't an efficient use of my time. 2) Our system here has ONE email system: PINE. It defaults my "from" address. There is no obvious way to override it. I may have the necessary tools and permissions, I may not; I don't feel like taking whatever time it takes to figure it out. We use PINE for usenet and email, using the same config file. There are other usenet tools here, like tin, but I would have to learn them. Again, I have no idea if I have the permissions/tools/knowledge to alter my headers. I am certain that I could hack it with time enough and motivation enough. I have neither. 3) I do other things besides talk to you with this tool. I communicate with students, family and others. I want them to get my real headers. I don't want an elaborate switching mechanims every time I change the person I'm speaking to. > Most people worth talking to have enough of a clue to replace [at] with @. > > if your software requires an apparently valid email address, try > > jsmith(a)NOSPAM.foo.com > > I put a spam-busted address in my .sig and give root(a)127.0.0.1 as my email > in the from: header. Sure, somebody out there is going to be unhappy with > me, but if they have a clue they'll figure it out. Meantime, the SpamBots > are bouncing mail to the admin of the site instead of to me. > > That may not be enough if you're already in the spamming lists. Try > using 'positive' filtering- instead of filtering to eliminate unwanted > mail, filter email from regular correspondents into a 'approved' > directory, and leave the rest in the inbox to pick through later. > > It seems very strange that the denziens of this list, reputed to be gutsy > enough to take on the FBI, NSA, CIA, and White House, would be scared > away from a discussion forum (Usenet) by uninvited email. > > We'd better hope they never figure out Cypherpunks, Guardians of > Privacy and Defenders of Free Speech, are afraid of spam. > > (And supposedly the 'Moderation experiment' is over, so this won't get > kicked onto the -flames list, although it's more ridicule than flame...) > > > > == The above may have been dictated via Dragon Dictate 2.52 voice recognition. Please be alert for unintentional word substitutions. A. Michael Froomkin | +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax) Associate Professor of Law | U. Miami School of Law | froomkin(a)law.miami.edu P.O. Box 248087 | http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA | It's warm here.

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Re: The Science Generations, II
by drose＠azstarnet.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

With regard to chemicals, may I suggest a perusal of the PGI and PML lists (respectively, Pyrotechnics Guild Inc. and Pyrotechnics Mailing List)? These are good resources; just about anything you might want is available. However, they are serious; the KeWl BoMb stuff is on USENET (attn: C'Punk Newsgroup folks-thanx Dimi--there *is* a difference). Yea, (as D. Thorn might babble, if I understand the shards of his stuff quoted in the posts of those who should know better) when I was a young fellow, the guy at the local chemical supply co. asked my mom, "Lady, do you have any idea what metallic sodium and red fuming nitric acid and Willy Ley-strength Hydrogen Peroxide are all about?" Me, personally? I'm glad to have traded the availability of interesting reagents for the "Oppa-tune-itee" of having freedom and justice. (Although nobody "axed" my opinion prior to there having been a reversal in the thrust of gummint regulations.)

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Telecom Frequently Asked Questions File - 1997 Edition [fwd]
by azur＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: David Leibold <djcl(a)interlog.com> To: Telecom Digest <ptownson(a)massis.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: Telecom Digest FAQ - revised edition TELECOM Digest - Frequently Asked Questions - v.8 8 February 1997 * Frequency of Updates: approximately annual (special updates are possible) * FAQ contributions to: Telecom.FAQ(a)superctl.tor250.org or, dleibold(a)else.net or, aa070(a)freenet.toronto.on.ca Introduction... This is a list of frequently asked questions made in the TELECOM Digest. New versions of the list are occasionally made available to deal with new, corrected or updated questions. Many contributors have made the FAQ what it is today (those listed in the "Who contributed to this FAQ?" question are hereby thanked). Check the Archives... Much of the telecom information that is requested can be found in the TELECOM Digest Home Page, via WWW at: http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives This web page should have links to this FAQ file, as well as various informational files on telecom subjects and the Digest itself. The Archives for TELECOM Digest should also be available via the Home Page. The TELECOM Digest Archives are also available through anonymous FTP at massis.lcs.mit.edu (login as anonymous, mail address for password, cd to telecom-archives). If possible, try to access the information via the TELECOM Digest Home Page first. You can also access the Archives using anonymous ftp at the mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives. Also, there is an email <--> ftp service operating called the Telecom Archives Email Information Service. Anything in the archives can be obtained automatically by email. Send mail addressed to: tel-archives(a)massis.lcs.mit.edu The subject does not matter. Include no text, sending just a blank letter. You will get a help file by return mail and should use that as a guide to ordering stuff by email from the archives. A list of terms commonly used in TELECOM Digest is contained in a "Glossary" section on the Home Page or in the Archives. Try direct inquiries... Direct netmail requests to persons posting on topics of interest to you may also be helpful. In fact, doing things "behind the scenes" can be more productive as the Digest Moderator is frequently swamped with other items. Future editions of this list could include netmail addresses of contacts for certain topics (say for ISDN, cellular, area codes/numbering plan, consumer protection matters, etc.); offers to that end would be appreciated. Where to contact the FAQ maintainer... Suggestions for other common questions, or corrections or other amendments to this file may be made to Telecom.FAQ(a)superctl.tor250.org (Fido 1:259/730) or dleibold(a)else.net or aa070(a)freenet.toronto.on.ca. Note that any or all of these addresses are subject to change or discontinuance. This file is updated approximately annually; special updates may be made as time and circumstances permit. Disclaimer Type Stuff... All information herein should be considered subject to correction or change. No endorsements or promotions of specific products or companies are intended. Any specific references are made for example only, or in order to adequately deal with certain subjects.

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Re: The Offending Stronghold posts...
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. May wrote: > Interestingly, I don't recall getting any e-mail from Sandy telling me he > was not passing on my messages to either the Main or the Flames list...my > messages were simply dropped on the floor. [snip] > As conversational threads are often so tangled, and become so much more > tangled with time, the job of the censor gets more difficult as time > passes. Not only must he excise all mention of banned topics, he must also > be alert to later discussions making mention of the act of banning, or of > the topics. This is territory well-covered by Orwell, of course. The > rewriting of history is a full-time job. Exactly. I hate to intrude, but some of us kids learned that lesson in something called "Sunday School" way back when. The lesson was "If you tell one lie, you'll have to tell another to cover it up, then another and another until you're buried in the lies and your credibility is shot". A related lesson: "An excuse is the skin of a reason packed with a lie".

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Telecom Frequently Asked Questions File - 1997 Edition [fwd]
by Steve Schear 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From: David Leibold <djcl(a)interlog.com> To: Telecom Digest <ptownson(a)massis.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: Telecom Digest FAQ - revised edition TELECOM Digest - Frequently Asked Questions - v.8 8 February 1997 * Frequency of Updates: approximately annual (special updates are possible) * FAQ contributions to: Telecom.FAQ(a)superctl.tor250.org or, dleibold(a)else.net or, aa070(a)freenet.toronto.on.ca Introduction... This is a list of frequently asked questions made in the TELECOM Digest. New versions of the list are occasionally made available to deal with new, corrected or updated questions. Many contributors have made the FAQ what it is today (those listed in the "Who contributed to this FAQ?" question are hereby thanked). Check the Archives... Much of the telecom information that is requested can be found in the TELECOM Digest Home Page, via WWW at: http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives This web page should have links to this FAQ file, as well as various informational files on telecom subjects and the Digest itself. The Archives for TELECOM Digest should also be available via the Home Page. The TELECOM Digest Archives are also available through anonymous FTP at massis.lcs.mit.edu (login as anonymous, mail address for password, cd to telecom-archives). If possible, try to access the information via the TELECOM Digest Home Page first. You can also access the Archives using anonymous ftp at the mirror site: ftp.epix.net/pub/telecom-archives. Also, there is an email <--> ftp service operating called the Telecom Archives Email Information Service. Anything in the archives can be obtained automatically by email. Send mail addressed to: tel-archives(a)massis.lcs.mit.edu The subject does not matter. Include no text, sending just a blank letter. You will get a help file by return mail and should use that as a guide to ordering stuff by email from the archives. A list of terms commonly used in TELECOM Digest is contained in a "Glossary" section on the Home Page or in the Archives. Try direct inquiries... Direct netmail requests to persons posting on topics of interest to you may also be helpful. In fact, doing things "behind the scenes" can be more productive as the Digest Moderator is frequently swamped with other items. Future editions of this list could include netmail addresses of contacts for certain topics (say for ISDN, cellular, area codes/numbering plan, consumer protection matters, etc.); offers to that end would be appreciated. Where to contact the FAQ maintainer... Suggestions for other common questions, or corrections or other amendments to this file may be made to Telecom.FAQ(a)superctl.tor250.org (Fido 1:259/730) or dleibold(a)else.net or aa070(a)freenet.toronto.on.ca. Note that any or all of these addresses are subject to change or discontinuance. This file is updated approximately annually; special updates may be made as time and circumstances permit. Disclaimer Type Stuff... All information herein should be considered subject to correction or change. No endorsements or promotions of specific products or companies are intended. Any specific references are made for example only, or in order to adequately deal with certain subjects.

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