- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: AW: National Socio-Economic Security Need for Encryption Technology
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 3:35 AM 8/13/96, Perry E. Metzger wrote: >Bart Croughs writes: >> I would be proud if I had discovered this axiom, but alas, I haven't. >> It's an axiom that is generally accepted among austrian economists >> (Rothbard, Hazlitt, etc). I don't know who actually discovered it. > >The truly hysterical part is that Tim and I are both (from what I can >tell) Austrians. Indeed. While Perry and I disagree on some things, the relevance of the Austrian School of Economics, and its University of Chicago satellite campus, is not one of them. If Croughs stays on this list long enough, he will surely see this. (And find plenty of references to Hayek, Menger, Friedman, etc., in the archives.) The problem with the "Croughs Axiom" is not that there is not a _general_ correlation between average national wages and average national capital investment--there is. A scatter plot of wages vs. capital investment for the 200 or so nations would almost certainly show that the Ivory Coast has low per capita wages and low per capita wages, Sweden has both higher wages and higher capital investment per capita, and so on. Correlation, of course, is not causation. No, the problem was that Croughs invoked this general _correlation_ (which can arise for various reasons) to support his mercantilist protectionist ideas. (He also didn't say he was talking of nations, which is why some of us found the examples we did, e.g., MacDonald's vs. law firms, which have the opposite correlation he described.) And the cloud of ideas connected with somehow forcing capital investment to remain in the U.S....well, the best way to do this is to alter the tax laws so that America (for example) becomes a magnet for investment. (If one is looking to help America, that is.) In any case, the original notion, of somehow using cryptography policy to support U.S. interests....well, I rather doubt that Menger, Von Mises, Hayek, Hazlitt, or any of the others connected with the Austrian School would buy Crough's protectionist arguments. And I certainly know that jingoistic appeals to "America First!" are inconsistent with the sentiments of many or even most on this list. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

1 0

Re: "X-Ray Gun" for imperceptible searches
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 3:12 AM 8/13/96, Alan Horowitz wrote: >CCW holders don't have a legal right to conceal their possession of >weapon, from the police. > I think the earlier remark was oriented toward "not scaring the horses" rather than making a serious attempt to hide the presence of a gun from a duly-authorized search. People who carry concealed are _strongly_ encouraged to keep the fact of their concealed carry hidden. No "careless" displays in bars, for example. And no announcement to casual bystanders, and even to store security guards. The reason for this is simple: to avoid panic and overreaction ("He's got a gun!!") and also to avoid having a concealed weapon used in a brandishing situation to intimidate others. Seen this way, the widespread deployment of metal detectors, millimeter wave detectors, and other such gadgets would force major changes in CCW laws. Aside from the Constitutional issues, which are major. I don't see how "remote scanning" of the population at large, without probable cause, is much different from the cops listening in from a distance with parabolic antennas. Both cases involve detection of signals emitted from the target. And yet such long-distance interception is not allowed without a warrant. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

1 0

NT Remailers
by steven ryan 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, Would anyone be so kind as to point me to any information on running a remailer on Windows NT and the address for the remailer-owners mailing list? A search of the places I expected might have this information didn't Thanks, Steven ------------------------------------ Steven Ryan Reading Access PGP Fingerprint: E8 A2 C5 A2 7A C4 77 93 0A 1B 1D C6 B9 2F 36 9B Finger me for my PGP public key sryan(a)reading.com

1 0

Re: Police prepare stunning end for high-speed car chases
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 4:43 AM 8/13/96, jim bell wrote: >At 09:54 AM 8/12/96 -0700, Timothy C. May wrote: > >> >>(And I'm not ignorant of such technologies, having attended several of the >>Nuclear and Space Radiation Effects Conferences. I also played around with >Why would you need an "EM Cannon" for this? Just string a 1-car-sized loop >of wire on the surface of a road, and off in the bushes hide a battery, >DC-to-Hi voltage DC converter and 20kv+ capacitor, and a vacuum switch or >some other switch arrangement. When the car in question traverses the loop, >short the switch and the car will be blasted with 20,000 volt-turns of >induction. Sure, most of it will pass harmlessly through the car's steel, >but even iron has a limited "mu" which means that every electrical device in >the car will be subjected to a certain amount of induced EMF, probably >enough to at least reset a few microprocessors and possibly even destroy them. Well, we're all operating based on speculation, as to intended modes of operation, what the contracts may ask for, what may eventually get delivered, etc. Certainly the described mode, that of a police car _pursuing_ another car, suggests a car-launched signal. Rewiring the nation's roads to include buried cables in anticipation of a future use would be pretty expensive! (And if the cops can plan for a suspect/fleeing car to pass a specific location, low-tech solutions like laying a row of caltrops across the road will do much the same thing as "zapping" (which may not even work.)) As to high-voltage zapping, on this I am _extremely_ skeptical, at least as Jim's proposal above goes. Modern chips are equipped to deal with high-voltage, having electrostatic discharge (ESD) provisions. Voltages a lot higher than 20kv. And getting this hv signal in to the interior of the engine compartment, and past the various thermal and other shields would be a chore. Certainly the rubber tires will provide an _awful_ lot of insulation! No signal at the road level is going to get through the tires, at least not until the dielectric breakdown of several inches of rubber and air is achieved! (And even then, what is the current path? Where does the current coming up from the road surface go? Even lightning strikes, from above, where the place for the current to flow is clearly down into the ground, have virtually no effect on cars and especially not on the insides of cars.) If cars routinely survive lightning strikes, involving hundreds of thousands of of volts and fairly substantial currents, then I can't imagine anything humans can plausibly do along the same lines having any effect. I won't debate this further, though. I don't know just what the DARPA (or whomever) contract is asking for. Maybe something can be built, maybe not. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

1 0

Re: Hoax: A ban on cryptography?
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 2:37 AM 8/13/96, David Kennedy wrote: >My mailer thinks the e$pam list pulled this from cypherpunks: > And I'll bet you're still looking for "Oceania" in your atlas? This is one of the main reasons I hate it when my articles get "spammed" to other lists, lists where people have no idea of who I am and no idea of my sense of humor. For the clueless, I simply took the "Defense Authorization" bill which had been posted to Cypherpunks by geeman(a)best.com and replaced a few of the words involving "explosives" with "cryptography." Oh, and I twiddled the number of the bill to include "666." Finally, I even said "This may not be real, but it could be" at the end. Jeesh. The worst part of having my stuff spammed, e-spammed, gurgitated, and regurgitated is that I get letters from people saying "I saw this thing you wrote on the Kangaroo Hopping List. What is "crypto"? Thanks a bunch, dude." Wake up. And for those who forward my stuff, please include appropriate disclaimers to your "spammees" that a) one should read things with an appreciation that a post may be tongue in cheek, b) that back-spamming to another list is not cool, and c) that I don't want to be bothered. >>> S.1666 > > Department of Commerce Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1997 (Passed by the > Senate) << > >And this is bogus, and as far as I can tell not a typo, it's complete hokum. > >S.1666 is an obscure bill about courts in Utah. > >A search of http://thomas.loc.gov on "encryption" reveals the expected bills, >PRO-CODE etc. > >A search for the DoC Authorization Act reveals nothing, as far as I can tell >this bill has not been drafted let alone passed. I don't know enough about how >the DoC is funded to know if they get their own Authorization Act or receive >authorizations piecemeal and by the reconciliation. > >Again, this is bogus. > >!^NavFont02F02350014QGHHG|MG~HG85QG87HI}2126 Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

2 1

Re: Spam and Eggs. (fwd)
by Damien Lucifer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I put together a few pages regarding remailers and net spamming. Nathan Waddoups <nathan(a)metareality.com> hosts a well written site dealing with the larger issue of netspam, and has graciously agreed to host the remailer pages. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:06:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Nate Waddoups <nathan(a)metareality.com> Subject: Re: Spam and Eggs. I just finished adding your page. You're linked from the main spam page: http://www.metareality.com/~nathan/visit.cgi/html.Spam ...and your page is at this address: http://www.metareality.com/~nathan/visit.cgi/spam/html.Remail Groovy. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- <sig> see http://www.metareality.com/~nathan for more of the same </sig> Help stop junk email! http://www.metareality.com/~nathan/visit.cgi/html.Spam

1 0

Re: National Socio-Economic Security Need for Encryption Technology
by Bart Croughs 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Duncan Frissel wrote: >In the long run, employers will bid wages up to the level of discounted value of marginal product of the labor -- the present value of the future "price" of the increase in output ascribable to the added worker.< You are right. Wages are determined by the productivity of labor. But the productivity of labor in its turn is for a large part determined by the amount of capital invested. So, there is no contradiction here. >It never ceases to amaze me that there are people in this country who actually believe that the average American in poorer now than in 1970. I can only be those who were unconscious in 1970.< I think you're probably right again, but I never said that the average American is poorer now than in 1970. Again, no contradiction here. Bart Croughs

1 0

Rumors of death of Anguilla Data are greatly exaggerated
by Greg Kucharo 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In the Swiss system, who dictates to the banks thier policies about who and what they can store? Do the banks have enough influence to sway lawmakers? It seems to me that the issue is not illegality, but rather if the depositor is a viable political entity with "something on the other guy". When the Nazis or Columbian drug dealers are still in power, the Swiss look the other way. As soon as these types fall to other forces, the Swiss hand over the goods to the victors. I think if you were to sucessfully store information that a large power finds personally objectionable, the best solution is to play both sides. Scenario; The U.S. leans on the Anguilla authorities to close down Vince. Vince goes to the British consulate and negotiates for the depositing of some nasty information about the Queen or something. The British lean on the Americans to lay off. A little far feteched but you get the idea. And it would work in the majority of situations. I bet money stashed by Hitler and Goebbels got confiscated after World War II. But Gerhard Whelen got his loot when he linked up with the CIA. ??????????????????????????????????????? Greg Kucharo sophi(a)best.com "People want chaos for about 5 minutes. Then they want some money and a backrub." -Bruce Sterling ???????????????????????????????????????

1 0

Hoax: A ban on cryptography?
by David Kennedy 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

My mailer thinks the e$pam list pulled this from cypherpunks: >> S.1666 Department of Commerce Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1997 (Passed by the Senate) << And this is bogus, and as far as I can tell not a typo, it's complete hokum. S.1666 is an obscure bill about courts in Utah. A search of http://thomas.loc.gov on "encryption" reveals the expected bills, PRO-CODE etc. A search for the DoC Authorization Act reveals nothing, as far as I can tell this bill has not been drafted let alone passed. I don't know enough about how the DoC is funded to know if they get their own Authorization Act or receive authorizations piecemeal and by the reconciliation. Again, this is bogus. !^NavFont02F02350014QGHHG|MG~HG85QG87HI}2126

2 1

Re: Police prepare stunning end for high-speed car chases
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 4:46 PM 8/12/96, snow wrote: >On Sat, 10 Aug 1996, Gary Howland wrote: >> Will old fashioned engines be outlawed? >> Will the "stun guns" be outlawed? >> Will susceptible electronic systems become mandatory? >> (and if so, why not just put a remote control switch in all cars?) > > One word: Pacemakers. Not just pacemakers, but also cars losing steering control (but not forward speed, obviously) and thus plow into crowds. And airbags that perhaps get triggered in all the ruckus, breaking the necks of infants (as has happened). Think of the liablility issues! Deliberately causing a car to lose control. Mon Dieu! I'm skeptical that this EM cannon will get deployed anytime soon. (And I'm not ignorant of such technologies, having attended several of the Nuclear and Space Radiation Effects Conferences. I also played around with this as a minor plot element in a novel I was working on several years ago, namely, a character killed in Los Alamos when the Electronic Engine Control circuitry of his BMW was zapped while on a mountain road. This, by the way, is a "side effect" of widely deploying such EM cannon technologies--people using them on twisty mountain roads. I can think of some places near Big Sur and around Devil's Slide where such a gizmo would produce real interesting effects!) --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

2 1