- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

[FLAME] [PURE VITROL] Re: IMDMP: SOURCE...
by Sean Roach 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:05 PM 1/18/97 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis wrote: >> Non sequitor. > ^ >Do "cypher punks" use lousy spelling as a kind of "poor fag's crypto"? I'm a heterosexual, so I may be off the mark here, but. Reguarding my history books, Mr. Hoover (can't remember his first name), of F.B.I. fame, a reported homosexual, was one of the biggest gaybashers of his era. By your acidic comments, are you trying to tell us something?

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ElGamal
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy C. Mayonnaise is the living proof that anal sex causes pregnancy. o /\O/ O Timothy C. Mayonnaise 0 \\ | 0-# // | / \

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Re: [FLAME] [PURE VITROL] Re: IMDMP: SOURCE...
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Sean Roach <roach_s(a)alph.swosu.edu> writes: > At 10:05 PM 1/18/97 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis wrote: > >> Non sequitor. > > ^ > >Do "cypher punks" use lousy spelling as a kind of "poor fag's crypto"? > > I'm a heterosexual, so I may be off the mark here, but. Reguarding my > history books, Mr. Hoover (can't remember his first name), of F.B.I. fame, a > reported homosexual, was one of the biggest gaybashers of his era. By your > acidic comments, are you trying to tell us something? Homosexual activists have accused many prominent people, like Hoover and da Vinci, of sharing their sexual perversions. I have seen no evidence that Hoover was a pervert other than a claim by one woman, a proven liar, that she was present at an orgy where Hoover wore a woman's dress and engaged in sex with men. Several other people who she claimed were present at the orgy called her a liar. She's dead, or she would have probably been supporting Geekmore and EFF today. You may recall that the moderator cocksucker Sandfart invited me to a "cypher punks" meating in San Francisco, and if I had accepted, would have told many lies about my participation in their homosexual orgies. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: GSM technology
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:43 AM 1/20/97 -0500, Nurdane Oksas wrote: > Does anyone use ADSL lines? or are they still very expensive? I just had a very interesting talk with somebody from Northern Telecom (Canada's Phone Company). NorTel has apparently skipped ISDN and is now deploying ADSL. Some areas already have access to ADSL at, can you believe this, $60/month. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred Make your mark in the history of mathematics. Use the spare cycles of your PC/PPC/UNIX box to help find a new prime. http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm

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Re: Sandy and the Doc
by Bill Frantz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 9:19 PM -0800 1/19/97, WinSock Remailer wrote: >Bill Frantz <frantz(a)netcom.com> writes: > >> I hope if such a system is set up, people who use it will realize that >> email is not 100% reliable. Just because algebra.com sent mail to >> toad.com, doesn't mean that toad.com actually received it. A small >> fraction of a percent of these messages will be lost. > >Failing something catastrophic like a disk failure or a host down for >more than a week, this should not be the case. Almost every site >running sendmail has the Os ("SuperSafe") option set. That means >sendmail will not respond to a "." at the end of a DATA command with >SMTP code 250 until it has written the incoming message (and queue >info) to disk and called fsync. Thus, you may get 2 copies of a >message, but mail messages should not just disappear regularly at all, >even if the network goes down or a machine crashes. > >Non-sendmail MTA's tend to be even more strict about this, not even >allowing this behavior to be disabled. About 9 months ago, I lost somewhere between 50 and 100 email messages because they were written to a disk with a corrupted file system. Now failures of this kind may be in the category of "catastrophic disk failure", but in my unfortunate experience, they are not all that uncommon. Note that since I lost multiple messages due to one failure, tests of the form, "Once is happenstance, twice coincidence, three or more is conspiracy" might say, "conspiracy" even for just one failure. The chances of this test criteria error increase for frequent posters. At 4:02 AM -0800 1/20/97, Toto asked: > Are there any critereon established, yet, as to what type of content >will be necessary for a letter to get 'lost'? See the above discussion of disk failure. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Client in California, POP3 | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | in Pittsburgh, Packets in | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | Pakistan. - me | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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Re: microcurrency: Netscape vs. Microsoft
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[microcurrency] >It will also not catch on until there are better standards involving >microcurrency transactions amongst the vendors. It would also help if >there was a single interface (or "helper app") for whatever vendor you >decided to go with. as I see it, I think there are a few key standards that need to be devised: 1. an html tag that indicates how much a link costs, probably in the <a href="" cost=xx> type syntax 2. modification of http to support a payment mechanism, by sending a token. 3. browser "piggy bank". there are other standards, such as how a person might get cash into their piggy bank etc., but most would be related to the above items. notice that we don't really need a good interoperable standard to begin with. often Netscape and MS invent tags that are not interoperable between them, and later standardization arrives at a consensus / convergence. as I see it, I think the browser manufacturers should just pick their favorite digital cash scheme (cybercash, digicash, whatever) that is easiest to implement, and do so, with the intention of integrating other schemes at a later date. >Currently every vendor of payment schemes has made it proprietary in some >way. (At least the ones I have seen.) This means that if the user visits >three different web pages, each using a payment scheme from a different >vendor, that user has to be signed up with all of those vendors. (Or at >least have their helper apps.) hence, a good opportunity for the browser manufacturer to remove all these additional complications and make it point-and-click simple. I agree, this is not going to be a total nonbrainer. but better the browser manufacturer do it for their software, allowing everyone who uses it to benefit, than every single cash user in cyberspace trying to replicate the same difficult series of steps to get their cash going. >I will not even go into the hastles of trying to set it up from the server >side. (The last payment scheme I installed (cybercash) was not very well >documented. The documentation on the web site contradicted the software >with the tar file. (And both were wrong at some point.)) Until these >payment schemes are easier to deal with for the web page provider, they >will not catch on. (There will also need to be more support for Internet >service providers with multiple vendors all on different payment schemes.) > >Until there is a single standard hammered out, micropayments will still be >few and far between. generally, that's what I'm calling for, some ad hoc standards being put into place immediately by the browser manufacturers, in the same way new tags are always being invented. standardization generally results *after* an initial, minimally constrained innovation phase, imho.

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Re: microcurrency: Netscape vs. Microsoft
by Vladimir Z. Nuri 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>> notice how much crypto really caught on when Netscape >> incorporated it, and how this action alone did more for >> the proliferation of crypto in cyberspace, almost, than >> all prior efforts combined. I think that microcurrency >> will be unleashed in a very similar way. > >I assume you are referring to secure web connections via SSL in talking >about crypto. In that case there was a very strong pent up demand for >the service. Customers were afraid to send credit card numbers and >other personal information across the web. Sellers were pressuring the >net server companies to do something to quell these concerns so on-line >selling could succeed. Netscape did it, and in the grand tradition of >the net, implementation beat design and SSL defeated SHTTP. neither has "beat" the other at this point. but this does show something I have always believed: companies should just invent ad-hoc, quick-and-dirty standards if full standards are not immediately available. it makes no sense to me to delay the introduction of some new feature because there isn't industry standardization. the case is often that the initial ad-hoc standards will tend to converge into a better standard down the road. I don't see standards as "forever". standards should be viewed as stepping stones to better standards. hence I think netscape and/or MS should invent a "plug and play" (i.e. trivial to use) micropayment standard immediately, regardless of what industry standardization does not or will exist. it wouldn't be pretty at first but standardization to better interfaces could ensue later. the main thing is to get it on the table, and get people using it, to create the demand. services are rarely developed unless there is a demand. hence I suggest that a *rudimentary* form of the service be first devised and implemented asap to increase demand for one with much more finesse. In its early >versions SSL had a lot of problems but it was a good enough solution for >what it needed to be. exactly. >The question is whether there is similar market demand for pay per view >web pages. don't think this is a valid question. the whole point of microcurrency is just decreasing the cost until people hit the page and don't care about the cost. hence I think there is a guaranteed market, because with microcurrency you can always shave off your price to virtually infinitesmal values (say pennies a hit) that will guarantee you will have at least some audience. Do web service operators think they can offer value added >services which will motivate customers to click through the for-pay link? I'm imagining just putting a teeny little transaction charge on top of every single hit that now exists. if it is small enough, consumers won't care very much. >There is also the issue of sellers learning to use the various payment >systems which are out there. Here again if Netscape and Microsoft would >just pick one then everyone could standardize on it, which would >increase acceptance a great deal. well, pick one payment scheme and then competing companies could adopt the same standard (but offer competing systems and features) >Ecash as it is implemented now has the problem that the customer has to >open a special bank account. What you need is a payment system where >you can use your existing VISA card and withdraw cash against it into >your electronic wallet. This is pretty close to the FV model but their >payment system is somewhat clumsy. exactly. someone who reengineered the whole thing from top to bottom and made it absolutely trivial to use-- I suspect the future of the browser wars will belong to the company that does this. again, I note it might be doable in a plug in, but as I said, I think browser manufacturers are eventually going to put it into their own code because of its sheer importance.

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Re: GSM crypto upgrade? (was Re: Newt's phone calls)
by Bill Frantz 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 3:41 PM -0800 1/16/97, Adam Back wrote: >Bill Frantz <frantz(a)netcom.com> writes: >> At 4:39 AM -0800 1/16/97, Adam Back wrote: >> >- PIN for phone's RSA signature keys >> >> It is not clear you need signatures in the secure phone case. Eric >> Blossom's 3DES uses straight DH for key exchange with verbal verification >> that both ends are using the same key. > >How does Eric's box display the negotiated key to the user? (I don't >recall the pair I saw having displays). I have not seen the production box, I am going from my memory of Eric's preproduction description at a meeting last spring. I hope someone who knows what they are talking about will butt in here if I am wrong. The box has a 3 or 4 digit display which displays "something" about the 3DES key, where "something" is some of the bits, or a hash, or ... With 3 decimal digits, a MIM attacker has a 999 out of 1000 chance of getting caught. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Client in California, POP3 | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | in Pittsburgh, Packets in | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz(a)netcom.com | Pakistan. - me | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

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Quantum computers/Java of a different sort
by Mike McNally 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

For all you quantum computer fans, see http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/html/970117c.htm -- ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ Mike McNally -- Egregiously Pointy -- Tivoli Systems, "IBM" -- Austin mailto:m5@tivoli.com mailto:m101@io.com http://www.io.com/~m101 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ --------------32AF54C4607C Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970120133756.24006L(a)crl3.crl.com> Return-Path: <jchou(a)tivoli.com> Received: from tivoli.com by kenya.tivoli.com (8.8.4/jfy) id MAA02404; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:50:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from corp.tivoli.com (corp.tivoli.com [146.84.1.6]) by tivoli.com (8.8.0/8.8.0-with-local-mods-ESMTP) with ESMTP id MAA08806; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:50:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from tivoli.com (tivoli.tivoli.com [146.84.1.5]) by corp.tivoli.com (8.6.10/8.6.13) with ESMTP id MAA10846; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:49:18 -0600 Received: from notes-brahms2.tivoli.com (brahms2.tivoli.com [146.84.3.4]) by tivoli.com (8.8.0/8.8.0-with-local-mods-ESMTP) with SMTP id MAA08787; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:50:15 -0600 (CST) Received: by notes-brahms2.tivoli.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) id 86256425.00673DAD ; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:47:39 -0500 From: jchou(a)tivoli.com X-Lotus-FromDomain: TIVOLI SYSTEMS To: java(a)tivoli.com Message-ID: <86256425.00673B22.00(a)notes-brahms2.tivoli.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:49:39 -0500 Subject: ScienceNOW www.sciencenow.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII jchou(a)tivoli.com 01/20/97 12:49 PM An advance in Java computing... http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/html/970117c.htm <BASE HREF="http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/html/970117c.htm"> <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>ScienceNOW www.sciencenow.org</TITLE> <META NAME="ScienceNOW www.sciencenow.org"> </HEAD> <BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF" LINK="#004080" VLINK="#649FDB" TEXT="#000000"> <TABLE Border=0 Width=100%> <TR VALIGN="top" ALIGN="center"> <TD> <A HREF="/cgi/redirect-ad.cgi?journal=sciencenow&ad=Knight%20Ridder%20ScienceB ase%20-%20Fish&url=http://krscience.dialog.com/&side=only"><IMG BORDER=2 WIDTH=220 HEIGHT=40 SRC="/ads/gifs/845499541.CDATAKRFISH.GIF"ALT="Knight-Ridder ScienceBase"></A></TD> <TD> <A HREF="/cgi/redirect-ad.cgi?journal=sciencenow&ad=Hewlett-Packard&url=http:/ /www.hp.com/info/hpcag8&side=only"><IMG BORDER=2 WIDTH=220 HEIGHT=40 SRC="/ads/gifs/850239381.gif"ALT="Hewlett-Packard Chemical Analysis"></A></TD> </TABLE> <P> <TABLE Border=0 Cellspacing=0 Cellpadding=0> <TR VALIGN="top" ALIGN="center"> <TD><A HREF="../home.htm"><IMG HEIGHT=20 WIDTH=100 SRC="../assets/images/Nav-home.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="Home" ></A></TD> <TD><A HREF="./newstips.htm"><IMG HEIGHT=20 WIDTH=100 SRC="../assets/images/Nav-news.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="News Tips" ></A></TD> <TD><A HREF="../archives.htm"><IMG HEIGHT=20 WIDTH=100 SRC="../assets/images/Nav-arch.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="Archives" ></A></TD> <TD><A HREF="./masthead.htm"><IMG HEIGHT=20 WIDTH=100 SRC="../assets/images/Nav-mast.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="Masthead" ></A></TD> <TD><A HREF="http://www.sciencemag.org/science/scripts/feedback.pl"><IMG HEIGHT=20 WIDTH=100 SRC="../assets/images/Nav-feed.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="Feedback" ></A></TD> <TD><A HREF="http://www.sciencemag.org/"><IMG HEIGHT=20 WIDTH=100 SRC="../assets/images/Nav-sci.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="Science Online" ></TD> </TABLE> <P> <TABLE Border=0 Cellspacing=0 Cellpadding=0> <TR> <TD WIDTH=100><A HREF="./970117b.htm"><IMG HEIGHT=20 WIDTH=100 SRC="../assets/images/Prevstor.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="Previous Story" ></A></TD> <TD WIDTH=100><A HREF="./970117d.htm"><IMG HEIGHT=20 WIDTH=100 SRC="../assets/images/Nextstor.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="Next Story" ></A></TD></TR> </TABLE><P> <TABLE Width=100%> <TR> <TD WIDTH=100 ALIGN="center"><P><A HREF="/cgi/redirect-ad.cgi?journal=sciencenow&ad=SB:%20Science%20Online&url =http://science-mag.aaas.org/science/&side=only"><IMG BORDER=2 WIDTH=75 HEIGHT=75 SRC="/ads/gifs/845576920.CDATAONLINE2.GIF"ALT="Science Online"></A></TD> <TD WIDTH=100 ALIGN="center"><P><A HREF="/cgi/redirect-ad.cgi?journal=sciencenow&ad=SB:%20Next%20Wave&url=http ://www.nextwave.org/&side=only"><IMG BORDER=2 WIDTH=75 HEIGHT=75 SRC="/ads/gifs/845560987.CDATANXTWV1.GIF"ALT="Science's Next Wave"></A></TD> <TD ALIGN="right" VALIGN="Center"><IMG HEIGHT=49 WIDTH=273 SRC="../assets/images/Scinowsm.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="ScienceNOW logo" ></TD></TR> </TABLE> <P ALIGN="RIGHT"><FONT SIZE="-1"> Friday, 17 January 1997, 7:00 p.m. </FONT></P><P ALIGN="Center"><FONT SIZE="+1"><STRONG> Quantum Computer in a Cup of Joe?<p> </STRONG></FONT></P> <p> Researchers have come up with a way to turn coffee and other mundane liquids into primitive quantum computers. The findings, reported in today's <i>Science</i> and in an upcoming issue of the <i>Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences</i>, suggest a new approach toward conquering the Mount Everest of computing: a quantum computer that in a few seconds could perform calculations that would take billions of years on an ordinary supercomputer.<p> <A NAME="image1"></A><P><HR> <IMG ALT="Illustration" BORDER=1 ALIGN=LEFT HSPACE=20 VSPACE=10 SRC="970117-2.gif"> <BR CLEAR=ALL> <STRONG>Fresh-brewed. </STRONG>A prototype tabletop NMR quantum computer, showing the circuitry and the radio-frequency coil.<P> <FONT SIZE=-2>JOSHUA SMITH</FONT><BR> <HR><P>The key is nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR), a technique for manipulating and measuring the spins of atomic nuclei that is already a mainstay of medical imaging and chemical analysis. The up-or-down spin of nuclei offers the two-bit logic system that a computer needs. What makes a quantum computer special, however, is quantum parallelism. In the strange world of quantum mechanics, the spin of a nucleus can be in both states, representing both bits, at the same time. That property should permit a quantum computer to perform calculations on incredibly large numbers of bits at once. And Neil Gershenfeld of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Isaac Chuang of the University of California, Santa Barbara, and a second team, Tim Havel and Amr Fahmy of Harvard Medical School and David Cory of MIT, have found that it's easier to achieve this parallelism by using NMR in an ordinary liquid than in the exotic systems researchers have tried so far.<p> Cory, Fahmy, and Havel have actually built quantum circuits using a standard NMR spectrometer, while Gershenfeld and Chuang are gearing up experiments and hope to demonstrate quantum circuits and maybe even a simple computation by next summer. What can be done now can be done with easily available and affordable equipment--"off-the-shelf coffee cups, off-the -shelf liquids, off-the-shelf magnets, etc.," says MIT computer scientist Seth Lloyd.<p> "This NMR scheme is pretty slick stuff, but in the long run, they're going to have to find a particularly special molecule or state that allows them to extend it to large numbers," says Chris Monroe of the National Institute of Standards and Technology.<p> Indeed, the researchers note that fundamental obstacles may prevent the scheme from ever producing a practical computer. But "from the point of view of verifying the basic ideas and doing interesting physics," says Lloyd, a pioneer theorist in quantum computing, "it's fantastic." For more details, <i>Science</i> Online subscribers can link to the <a href="http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/275/5298/307">News story</a> in today's <i>Science</i>.<p> <p> <P ALIGN="CENTER"><A HREF="http://www.sciencemag.org/science/home/copyright.shtml"><FONT SIZE="-1">© 1997 by the American Association for the Advancement of Science</FONT></A></P> <TABLE Border=0 Cellspacing=0 Cellpadding=0> <TR> <TD WIDTH=100><A HREF="./970117b.htm"><IMG HEIGHT=20 WIDTH=100 SRC="../assets/images/Prevstor.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="Previous Story" ></A></TD> <TD WIDTH=100><A HREF="./970117d.htm"><IMG HEIGHT=20 WIDTH=100 SRC="../assets/images/Nextstor.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="Next Story" ></A></TD></TR> </TABLE><P> <TABLE Border=0 Cellspacing=0 Cellpadding=0> <TR VALIGN="top" ALIGN="center"> <TD><A HREF="../home.htm"><IMG HEIGHT=20 WIDTH=100 SRC="../assets/images/Nav-home.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="Home" ></A></TD> <TD><A HREF="./newstips.htm"><IMG HEIGHT=20 WIDTH=100 SRC="../assets/images/Nav-news.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="News Tips" ></A></TD> <TD><A HREF="../archives.htm"><IMG HEIGHT=20 WIDTH=100 SRC="../assets/images/Nav-arch.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="Archives" ></A></TD> <TD><A HREF="./masthead.htm"><IMG HEIGHT=20 WIDTH=100 SRC="../assets/images/Nav-mast.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="Masthead" ></A></TD> <TD><A HREF="http://www.sciencemag.org/science/scripts/feedback.pl"><IMG HEIGHT=20 WIDTH=100 SRC="../assets/images/Nav-feed.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="Feedback" ></A></TD> <TD><A HREF="http://www.sciencemag.org/"><IMG HEIGHT=20 WIDTH=100 SRC="../assets/images/Nav-sci.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="Science Online" ></TD> </TABLE> </BODY></HTML> --------------32AF54C4607C--

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Re: GSM technology
by Lucky Green 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 09:43 AM 1/20/97 -0500, Nurdane Oksas wrote: > Does anyone use ADSL lines? or are they still very expensive? I just had a very interesting talk with somebody from Northern Telecom (Canada's Phone Company). NorTel has apparently skipped ISDN and is now deploying ADSL. Some areas already have access to ADSL at, can you believe this, $60/month. -- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred Make your mark in the history of mathematics. Use the spare cycles of your PC/PPC/UNIX box to help find a new prime. http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm

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