- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

The Magic Question
by L. Detweiler 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Cypherpunks, please tell me what question I can ask of a psychopunk tentacle such that it will not lie and say that it is a real person! If you have any honesty or credibility, tell me that question! You don't believe in honesty, though. You believe you have the right to invade other's attention with your stealth identities. You rant loudly that anyone who attempts to make sure you are real is insane and a `digital stalker'. You believe you have the right to stick any mail message in anyones mailbox, to post to any newsgroup you wish. You believe that you have a right to trample on the rights of others. And you know you are perverted, but attack me as Satan for telling you that. You think you have the right to lie to anyone who asks, `who are you?' Tell me that question. I will go away when someone tells me the question.

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Invasion of Privacy
by L. Detweiler 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello again, you darling cryptoanarchists! I just wanted to drop you a line on the subject of my resume. At least one psychopunk has access to my real paper resume and one tentacle has had long had access to an ASCII version. An informer tells me that both have been circulating in some circles for you all to smirk at. I consider this an atrocious breach of my privacy by more hypocrites. My resume is directed at those who I intend, not those who wish to discredit me. If you have knowledge of its circulation, please send me email. Now, back to your regularly scheduled perversions.

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Re: The Magic Question
by jordan＠imsi.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

From ld231782(a)longs.lance.colostate.edu Sun Dec 5 03:06:00 1993 You think you have the right to lie to anyone who asks, `who are you?' I live in NYC, and am often approached by panhandlers. Approached is the wrong word, I guess I mean that I walk past them. Every person that walks by gets asked the same question: have any spare change? I choose to give to charity for a variety of personal reasons, but I typically don't respond -- at all -- to requests from panhandlers. I don't look at them or respond verbally to the question. Every now and again, when I don't respond at all, I get an insult fired off at me -- like, 'You could at *least* say no' or somesuch. I feel that so long as there's no reason to believe that the question is an "honest" one -- that is, there's nothing to signal the start of a conversation or a "relationship" ... I am, afterall, just walking by, and the next person behind me gets the same appeal -- there's no reason for me to respond, let alone with the "truth" ... I believe that answering a question like "who are you" can and should get different answers depending on the depth of the "relationship" involved. Is the question poser seeking some sort of "truth" ...? A "name" is simply a label, a tag, something to indirect through to access the "named" ... I'm sure we all know people whom we've called "Jack" the entire time we've known him, and suddenly one day we see Jack in a different situation and someone calls him John. Has Jack (*our* Jack) been "lying" to us? ----- One year I spent a summer at a visual arts workshop with a group of people who knew nothing of my past, and I was sure not to know them in the future (10 years later, I've had no contact with any of them). We gathered in a circle on the first day of activities and introduced ourselves after the leader read our names off a sheet. When my name was read, I just ignored it. My name was read three times, and then the leader went to the next name. At the end of the list, she asked "was there anyone whose name I didn't call" ... a woman put her hand up, and so did I. The leader took down our names, and we continued. That summer, I was "Nick" to everyone at the workshop. We worked in very close quarters, and the group of 40 or so quickly developed the kind of "trust" that's required in such intense situations. People needed to count on one another, and often spent sleepless nights together working on projects, helping each other explore their vision and response to the work we were doing, and generally becoming "friends" ... Inevitably, I was drawn to intimacy with one particular woman. It's one of those things you suddenly find yourself in. We shared many secrets, dark nights, heat. In the end, I was "found out" by some other of the staff. It's not even clear how many people "knew" all along. Even the staff member I worked closest with could have known, but for whatever reason never said a word. The fiction was nearly complete for 12 weeks. I did not intend to defraud, the "truth" was consistant. When word passed around that Nick was not my name, some refused to believe it. Some approached me later and started with "Nick ... er, Jordan ... er ... what do I call you?" I said it didn't matter to me, and most chose to call me Nick for the remainder of our time together. I received a few letters from that particular woman, a christmas card or two. I had to tell the place that receives my mail to look out for mail addressed to Nick Stames and route it to my box. We continued a correspondance, sharing some bits of the next phase of our lives, and she continued to call me Nick. I was, afterall, Nick to her. That's who she "knew" ... ----- Why do you care "who" I am? /jordan

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Pseudospoofing
by hughes＠ah.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

This message went to cypherwonks. Eric ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The issue here is epistemology. >There would be no problem if I asked a tentacle, `are you a pseudonym' >and it answered `yes'. This is exactly like the question "Are you a liar?", to which the answer is always "no". >But the cypherpunks are setting up a network of >fake sites and identities and continue to claim, to the very end, `yes, >I am real' with their fake identities. When I am accused of saying "I am real" from the mouth of a fake identity, and I deny this accusation, there are two models of reality which satisfy the words exchanged: -- I am using a fake identity, and I am lying to deny it. -- I am not using a fake identity, and am telling the truth to deny it. When confronted by a barrage of continuing accusations to which no answer is possible, I prefer to remain silent. I can gain no benefit from discourse in this situation and can only waste my time and the time of my correspondent. The usual way to break out of this 'solipsism of the dialogue' is to invoke a social mechanism, that is, ask someone else. Under a belief of widespread impersonation, however, all denials are now presumed to come from the original speaker of the first denial. Thus the solipsism of the dialogue expands to a solipsism of all dialogues. >Cypherpunks, please tell me what question I can ask of a psychopunk >tentacle such that it will not lie and say that it is a real person! If >you have any honesty or credibility, tell me that question! There is no such question, as I argue above. Am I dishonest if I cannot exhibit the nonexistent? Eric

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Re: Escobar and Cellular Ph0n3z
by Peter Wayner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Notes on Escobar: *) Tom Clancy's next-to-last novel, _Clear and Present Danger_ describes a secret drug interdiction mission run by the US Government. It is a novel, but he is well-known for getting many of the details right. The important de-ja-vu is that in the novel, the agents used a "box" that allowed them to recognize the voices of the various druglords no matter which phone line they used. This box would scan all of the cellular channels. *) I believe that Escobar called some radio station to complain about some story about him. The call was traced. Perhaps by mundane, Dragnet-era techniques. (I'm not sure about this point. Any confirmation?)

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Encryption and IP via Cable "TV"
by Harry Shapiro 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I pulled this off of nexis. Please note the line I highlighted. Does anyone know what kind of encryption is being used? At even $100 per month, we could set up also sorts of remailers all over the country. We could even create a secure comm. via PGP (for voice) via IP, etc. But I wonder if the encryption "they" are using would interfer with such schemes? /hawk Ethernet connection, but wouldn't require any other additional installation on users' part. PSI isU.S." PSI plans to have 2 tiers of service, business and residential. Network security problem has been ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ solved, using "on-the-fly" data encryption, he said. One issue that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ hasn't been fully resolved by Continental is reliability, Schoffstall said. "Cable companies are used to supplying entertainment. If their network goes down for a day, wesame cable system to provide their data, essentially their livelihood in the case of business users, well, there's going to have to be much better understanding of how to provide some guarantees of service." Price for service in homes is to be $ 75-$ 100 per month at start, but is expected to drop rapidly as economies of scale grow. -- Harry S. Hawk habs(a)extropy.org Electronic Communications Officer, Extropy Institute Inc. The Extropians Mailing List, Since 1991 EXTROPY -- A measure of intelligence, information, energy, vitality, experience, diversity, opportunity, and growth. EXTROPIANISM -- The philosophy that seeks to increase extropy.

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Enough is enough
by Matthew J Miszewski 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

please do 1 of the following two things. 1) Ignore L. Detweiller completely and put a message in the welcome message to the effect that he posts highly flamable material and replys should preferably go to his private email box. 2) Ban him from posting. Yes that is what i said. I believe whole heartedly in freddom of speech, but when that freedom interferes with other rights it may be impinged. I believe that one of those palces is the educational arena. I am trying to learn and before LD came on stage I learned a *shitload* from the cypherpunks. I do not censor easily, but it is unbearable. If i had the resources I would start another mailing list and invite everyone but him. Shocker I have the right to *not* include you. And I would exercise it. Ive been on the list for about a year and dont want to leave. Another option if the first two are no good would be to simply have everyone on the list forward every, *every* , post coming from LD to his postmaster. If they let it out, they might as well get as frustrated with his antics as me. And LD, I am a law student with an itchy litigation finger :-)...try me. --Matt ______________________________________________________________________________ In defense of liberty, encrypt for all purposes, civil and professional. In defense of privacy, encrypt all correspondence, personal and professional. In defense of sanity, do not encrypt your dry cleaning invoice! ++++++++--------mjmiski(a)macc.wisc.edu (c)1993

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L. Detweiler, S. Boxx, the Executioner, idiots etc.
by Jamie Jamison 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

After slogging through God knows how many rants by the imbecilic and possibly syphilitic Detweiler, I would have to say that I wish that some massive CypherPunk/Medusa criminal conspiracy did exist so that it, the conspiracy, could wipe this asshole off the face of the earth. Unfortunately for us it doesn't, or perhaps it does and it regards Mr. Detweiler as being too stupid and incompetent to bother with. Perhaps the best policy for dealing with paranoids such as Herr Detweiler would be to enact what I call mail stoning. The way this works is that every time Detweiler posts you take his post and mail it back to him. If enough users do this it will make his account unusable due to the sheer volume of mail he will be receiving. At this point hopefully he'll shut up and go find some other group to infest (Hey, I know, he could go over to talk.politics.homosexuality, which got pretty quiet after Gary Landers left). Jamie Jamison niteowl(a)u.washington.edu WITH STANDARD_DISCLAIMER Since I am both a student and a staff member of the UW, as well as a Washington taxpayer I suppose that in some vague and nebulous sense I could be speaking for them. However I doubt that my boss, my profs, or my elected representatives would agree with this, so let's just say that my opinions are mine and mine alone, and leave it at that.

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anyone out there thinking that
by nate＠VIS.ColoState.EDU 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

CypherPunks, Is there anyone out there thinking that in several years all of us will be looking back on this (The Detweiler fiasco) and remarking on it as being something of a ground-breaking flame war that would have repercussions throughout cyberspace and the future? I was thinking this today, while I was working away in my Lab. "What a funny thought!", I thought. Someday, in the near future, all of us will be able to say that we were part of a major breakthrough in Cyberspacial history, the first (I am afraid it will be the first of many) McCarthy-type witch hunts (maybe in the future we'll be accused by "legitimate" government agencies of being the Medusas behind many Tenticles, hunted, wrongly, like dogs). I am chilled to the bone at the thought, personally. -nate -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Nate Sammons nate(a)VIS.ColoState.Edu (303) 491-1578 | | Colorado State University -- Computer Visualization Laboratory | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Cypherpunk Archives
by L. Detweiler 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hello, I have been looking all over for cypherpunk archives. Could someone tell me where to find them? Is there an FTP site somewhere? Why has it taken so long to get them together? If I find a server, will someone volunteer to send me their collections? (My collection is quite thorough but I have a lot of private mail with other cypherpunks, particularly the leaders, mixed up in it, and if I put mine online I might accidentally reveal some of the private mail, unless I go through it painstakingly to remove all the incriminating ones, which would take quite awhile because they are quite littered with them, and it would be exceptionally painful for me to look at, to notice how long I was being manipulated, molested, and betrayed, and how others and their pet projects were being suppressed with tentacle attacks, so generally it wouldn't be a good idea for me to go back through my archives like this, although it is certainly possible that I will do so, if no one else volunteers, just out of the venemous spite cultivated in me by this corrupt farce that masquerades as a movement, in fact I consider it all `ammunition' in a kind of uplifting way, to be used as a countermeasure against cyberspatial terrorists who are poisoning Cyberspace, but no one has noticed yet, but increasingly everyone understands that the Cryptoanarchists are completely subversive at heart and must be pursued and oppressed, even though it is a grisly task that few have the balls for, and quite a few have fainted in the sight of the blood.) I heard that the leaders were opposed to archives for some reason or another. Something about it being like an NSA surveillance procedure. I think the problem is that it could capture quite a few of the Leader Tentacles. Oh well.

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