- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: Ireland: Bid To Ban "Tamper Proof" Phones
by Phil Karn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Thanks for the info about the origins of the European GAK initiative. It would still be interesting to know how much of a hand the US has had (and continues to have) in influencing the crypto policies of other countries. Thanks also for the correction regarding divorce in Ireland. My sincere apologies if I offended anybody over there with my "socially backward" comment. Ireland is by no means unique even among western nations in having certain restrictive laws and practices regarding private social behavior. In general the US is not much better, and parts (especially the southeast) are probably worse. It is interesting that you would mention political terrorism and drug smuggling as prime factors pushing towards GAK in Ireland. The forces at work in the US government push towards GAK are quite similar. I am fond of saying that "national security" and "drugs" have become the root passwords to the US Constitution... Question: have there been any problems with the use of strong encryption (PGP, SSH, etc) on the Internet in Ireland? Is it widely used over there? Phil

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Re: "alt.cypherpunks" people?
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Anil Das <das(a)sgi.com> writes: > Adam Back wrote: > > > > What do people think of starting an alt.cypherpunks USENET newsgroup? > > > > I have only one objection. I will never post to an Usenet group > under my real email address for fear of ending up in spammer > databases. > > -- > Anil Das > Learn to use an anonymous remailer. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: John's: In anarchy -everyone responsible
by Attila T. Hun 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- on or about 970204:2343 jim bell <jimbell(a)pacifier.com> said: +At 09:05 PM 2/4/97 +0000, Attila T. Hun wrote: +> In a "popular" anarchy, Jim Bell's assassination politics make +> perfectly good sense; but, a "popular" anarchy is not an _anarchy_. +I guess I don't understand the distinction you are trying to make, +between a "popular anarchy" and an "anarchy." Maybe you were trying +to distinguish between "dictatorship of the few (or one)" and +"dictatorship of the many (perhaps a majority)" but it didn't come out +very understandably. +Put simply, "anarchy is not the lack of order. It is the lack of +_orders_." disagree. pure anarchy is not the lack of "orders" --pure anarchy implies that everyone is imbued with that perfect sense of responsibility. +> anarchy is only possible in an ideal world where _everyone_ +> assumes not only responsibility for themselves, but for the common +> good. no malice, no greed, no need for assassination politics.... +No, that's traditional thinking and that's wrong. See AP part 8. +Freud believed (as "everyone" else believed, even myself, before AP) +that anarchy was inherently unstable. But it ISN'T, if the tools of +AP are used to stabilize it. And no, no altruism is necessary for AP +to work as well; no individuals are being asked to sacrifice +themselves for the common good. Rather, they are given the +opportunity to work to achieve a reward offered, cumulatively, by a +number of citizens. aah, but that is the difference between a _pure_ anarchy and a _popular_ anarchy. A pure _anarchy_ is sufficiently idealistic in that _noone_ lacks the necessary resonsibility to keep society moving, each individual in their own niche. As long as there is perfect responsibility in a perfect anarchy, then there is no need for AP. AP is a negative, or _punative_, influence; I might liken it to the Catholic Church which is a religion of fear, and an instrument of political control. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQCVAwUBMvixAL04kQrCC2kFAQECsQQAlPSQRpEE2dAKkqrWSlPf79QhSBtYbjXa rEyAlOrmi8NOxgyb8hGF/VwVkURUKnPr4gGJW9JvwuPB2x/AQeT11ZEQyVqeFGNF 0W6WR7yv3XsOT9UM6JCP9hFLWU33BumcPd26w8f/Z5mx87qEUoXeJD4ApLv5QNI3 WlyL0xDT1PM= =sfD3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Getting into MIT is impossible
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

jim bell <jimbell(a)pacifier.com> writes: > Erland van Lidth de Jeude is a MIT grad. He played the big badass in "Stir > Crazy." Computer science major, BTW. > > > > > At 07:37 PM 2/3/97 -0800, Clint Barnett wrote: > >wasn't Dolph Lundgren an MIT grad? I seem to remember something about him > >having a degree in Chemical Engineering or something along those lines. > > > >clint barnett > >lord of the cosmos > >emily carr institute > > > >On Wed, 29 Jan 1997, Anonymous wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> According to Rick Osborne: > >> > >> "I disagree and can speak from experience. I was denied admission to MIT > >> even thought I had a 3.82 GPA, 1440 SAT (one try), and had taken 9 AP test > >> with two 5's, four 4's, two 3's, and one 2. As for being well-rounded, I > >> was on several academic teams, sang in Chorus, acted and stage managed in > >> Drama, and played Tennis." > >> > >> People get into MIT--or don't get into MIT--for lots of reasons. Most > >> intelligent people apply to several schools, knowing that admissions > >> practices are subject to the vagaries of reality. > >> > >> In my case, my SATs were about 1500, with some 800s in achievement tests. > >> And the usual bullshit high school clubs, political offices, etc. etc. I > >> was accepted by MIT, but not by Caltech. I didn't lose any sleep over the > >> way things turned out. > >> > >> And I decided not to go to MIT, either. > >> > >> "The only thing I didn't have that the next MIT applicant had was money. > >> made the mistake of letting them know that I was dirt poor and would need > >> full aid/grants/etc, and to quote "The Great Escape" it was "Zzzt! To the > >> Russian front!"" > >> > >> My guess is that "other factors" were involved. > >> > >> I noted with some interest, but little surprise, that the guy claiming MIT > >> required a 4.0 GPA and a 1600 combined SAT score could barely spell, and > >> had major problems making a coherent point. Methinks this is why MIT > >> rejected him, not his lack of a "1600." > >> > >> ">For what it's worth, I wanted to go to MIT my sophomore year in high > >> >school, too > >> > >> "Lucky you. It had been a dream of mine since I was an annoying > >> overachiever of 6. Sux to be white trash, I guess." > >> > >> MIT offered me a substantial economic aid package, in the form of loans, > >> grants, and various campus jobs. What does this tell you? > >> > >> "MIT may be a great school, but they tend to be snooty assholes for the mo > >> part. (DISCLAIMER: Not all MIT grads/attendees are necessarily "snooty > >> assholes", I'm just saying that I've yet to meet one that wasn't.) > >> > >> I've known about a dozen or so MIT grads, and only one of them was a snoot > >> asshole, and it was a _she_, one of the first MIT women grads (and she was > >> _very_ impressed by this). > >> > >> Most MIT grads are perfectly reasonable. > >> > >> Xanthar > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > > > > > > > Jim Bell > jimbell(a)pacifier.com > This thread has no crypto-relevance, but Sandy the Asshole forwards it to the censored list. He also sends crypto-relevant threads to the flames list. This will be the first post in this thread that Sandy the Asshole will junk. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: Information Warfare
by Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

"tmcghan(a)mail.bcpl.lib.md.us" <tmcghan(a)mail.bcpl.lib.md.us> writes: > in a message allegedly from: Peter Hendrickson <pdh(a)best.com> > > > The cypherpunks list has been under "attack" for some time. > {snip} > > Some people have dismissed the idea that rogue governmental elements > > are behind some of our problems. > {snip} > > We know that "Information Warfare" is the big thing in the defense > > establishment right now. > > Information Warfare Conference > sponsored by DPMA/AITP > > Washington, DC, March 13-14, 1997 > Crystal City Marriott > 1999 Jefferson Davis Highway > Arlington, VA 22202 > > Presentations by: > Major General Michael V. Hayden, Commander, Air Intelligence Agency > Dr. C. Kenneth Allard, Competitive Strategies > Col. H. Stevens, Land Information Warfare Activity > > - current service visions and planned program initiatives > - operational concepts for 'third-wave' warfare > - information warfare drivers for 21st century C4I architectures > - emerging technologies and systems for information warfare > superiority: opportunities on the horizon > > 'information warfare targets and vulnerabilities', Maxim I. Kovel, > TASC systems management group > > 'information warfare for deterrence', William H.J. Manthorpe, Jr. > Applied Physics Laboratory, Johns Hopkins > > 'adaptive techniques for counter-deception', James Llinas, > technical advisor, DOD JDL, Data Fusion group > > 'emerging threats come in all sizes and flavors', Eugene Schultz, SRI > consulting > > "Information has been termed the 'fifth dimension' in the conduct of > 'third-wave' warfare, and promises to dramatically enhance the role > of C4I as a force multiplier. Joint and individual service doctrine > is emerging for IW, ans is affecting the needs and requirements for > diverse systems: from space-based surveillance and communications > systems to terrestrial image processing, visualization, and > information fusion systems." > > "This conference will provide a valuable forum where military and > industry staff can interact with key decision-makers to achieve the > most current possible understanding of Information Warfare concepts, > initiatives, technologies and potential opportunities. The Critical > Questions to be addressed include: > > - how is IW changing operational concepts? > - how can we defend the weak links in the planned > information-intensive reconnaissance, strike, targeting architecture? > - what developments in enabling technologies are needed to support > current Information Operations, Battlefield Visualization, and > Information Exploitation initiatives? > -what can be done to develop defensive information technology > capabilities? > > and last, but _c_e_r_t_a_i_n_l_y_ not least: > > - how will we move forward to develop a true offensive IW capability > > ============================================== > Many of my f2f meetings with the people on and around this mailing lists were at the InfoWarCon's. It's no secret that my research interests include IW (with PsyOps and DOS). And what was Gilmore (spit, fart) doing there? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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No Subject
by Bovine Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

May Timmy May's forgeries get stuck up his ass so he'll have to shit through his filthy mouth for the rest of its miserable life. ||||||||||| \~0/ \0~/ < (0) > --oOO--/|||\--OOo- Timmy May

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Re: ANNOUNCEMNT: February 1997 Cypherpunks Bay Area Meeting
by Ed Falk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi all; if anybody's interested in having a PGP key-signing party at this event, I'd be willing to organize one. If interested, send me your key (or a pointer to where I can download it), and let me know what times are good for you for the party. -ed falk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQBVAwUBMvkGtzLd6HIbO1jdAQGZFQH9GNbQCwSS09YuPrC9jg43A9NiusV18sdM 66MKMVxIYYi2EstThJVWN8NLYCIGCgOiJnnIJ4ZgkbnAwY9zmZviVw== =4etp -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: "alt.cypherpunks" people?
by Anil Das 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > Learn to use an anonymous remailer. Thanks for the hint, Dr. Vulis. I have registered for a course, but seats are available only in fall. -- Anil Das

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Re: Deloitte-Touche?
by Marshall Clow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Several people wrote: >I wrote: >>ObCrypto policy: >> Was anyone else besides me amazed by the guy >>from Deloitte-Touche at the Internet Privacy Coalition luncheon >>last week? I mean, he all but advocated violent overthrow of >>the government. [...] > >For the benefit of those of us who were not at this luncheon (probably >not even in the same country), could you please say more about this, >Marshall? What was the subject? What _did_ the DT speaker say, exactly? > After a while, I stopped taking notes, because I was so astounded at what he was saying. (Maybe someone with more complete notes could post a better summary) But, here a brief overview of the luncheon: Last Wednesday, January 29th, the Internet Privacy Coalition had a "policy lunch" in San Francisco. It was in one of the hotels hosting the RSA conference, and at the same time that the conference was breaking for lunch, so it was easy for attendees to "switch lunches". The speakers (as I remember, apologies to any I miss) were: Whit Diffie John Gilmore Kenneth Bass (counsel in Karn vs. Dept of State) Herb Lin (who ran the NRC staff for the crypto study) Marc Rotenberg William Hugh Murray (Deloitte & Touche) and a couple others that I missed, as I left early. Mr. Murray gave a long, impassioned speech. He said that the government is going to crack down on domestic possession and use of crypto, that they were looking to increase their wiretapping capabilities 100-fold, and so on. He was very emphatic about not trusting anything that the government says, and that once they got their "foot in the door", that they would seek to expand their abilities to regulate, etc, etc. He advocated deployment of strong crypto. He insisted that there was no way the government could stop the export of strong crypto. He exhorted people to refuse to obey the ITAR/EAR regulations, and to lobby their congresscritters to get the PRO-CODE bill passed. It wasn't really what he said that amazed me, because I had heard most of it (in bits and pieces) before. It was presenting it all in a package, in an emotional manner, by an elderly, conseratively dressed accountant who was representing a large corporation whose job it is to help people obey the government. [ My father was an accountant. He worked for Deloitte-Touche, in fact. I don't expect accountants to be passionate about government regs, and especially not to advocate disobediance. Maybe that's why this affected me so strongly. ] -- Marshall Marshall Clow Aladdin Systems <mailto:mclow@mailhost2.csusm.edu> Warning: Objects in calendar are closer than they appear.

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Re: OECD Waffles
by Marshall Clow 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>2-4-97. Reuters: > >Global group fails to endorse Clinton encryption plan > >Washington: An influential economic research group is preparing >guidelines on computer encryption for its member countries but >will duck some of the most contentious issues involved, according >to a draft obtained by Reuters. > [snip] Gee, that's funny.... I could have sworn I heard the Hon. Abassador Aaron tell us last week that the US had "strong international support" for its' key recovery programs, especially from the OECD. Here's a quote from an earlier Reuters article: > Wednesday January 29 3:26 PM EST > >U.S. Encryption Envoy Seeks Industry Cooperation > > SAN FRANCISCO - The Clinton administration's newly named point man on > encryption policy is citing international support for U.S. policies > limiting use of encryption and called for industry cooperation. > > Ambassador David Aaron, special envoy for cryptography, said on a > speech to the RSA Data Security Conference in San Francisco that U.S. > allies support the concept of lawful access by governments and the use > of key recovery mechanisms. and a quote from the NY Times: >The New York Times, January 29, 1997, p. D19. > > > Consensus Sought on Computer Coding > > By John Markoff > > San Francisco -- The Clinton administration's top overseas representative > on cryptography -- or data scrambling -- told a group of skeptical > computer industry executives and technical experts Tuesday that important > allies support the administration's position that governments should have > access-coded computer files and digital communications. > > The speech by David L. Aaron, made on the opening day of a computer > security conference, was part of a renewed effort by the administration > to gain broad support for its efforts to control data-scrambling > technologies, which are increasingly viewed as crucial components of > electronic commerce and communications. I am shocked, SHOCKED, I say, that a representative of our government would mislead us in this way. -- Marshall Marshall Clow Aladdin Systems <mailto:mclow@mailhost2.csusm.edu> Warning: Objects in calendar are closer than they appear.

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