- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

MAIL: Re: remailers revisted
by Karl Lui Barrus 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - From a few weeks ago (recently for me :-) >Given that my understanding is basically correct, why couldn't >the remailer system be set up similarly to the way IRC is? Your system sounds great. However, don't you have to be root to run the server side of things (put it in /etc/inetd.conf)? Or the alternative is to leave a process continually running listening for connections, right? Leaving a process running isn't feasible for me, even if it forks all the time (especially now with the recent security problem on owlnet). Or is there another way that an ordinary user can pull this off? If so I'd like to hear about it and work on an idea I've had for a while. Karl Barrus <klbarrus(a)owlnet.rice.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3a iQCVAgUBLVPkGoOA7OpLWtYzAQGa0wQAnh38YhoBl8fPemQRf79y44FgEVkRXHZX eNGNkNQ28Hy7aa21ni0FDViGLtauZO2akaYncL5GLEu6LYgr+pMjHThU0li16LQL ADOO8W1xUCyLu/hrNXKmlw+fQ0UoPPm8h10tTn+6D8XFzDDPGvKglRKpTkKVMHoa geMLZSbC8yI= =sBov -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

unsub,add to announce pls
by Arlene Zeichner 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Please unsubscribe. It's great but too technical for me.

1 0

Military & dependants
by nobody＠pmantis.berkeley.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Can American Military members or their family take copies of PGP or other encryption programs with them when being stationed at overseas bases? Aren't the overseas installations considered to be American soil while occupied, thus permitting such transfers? --- There can be only one!

1 0

Apologies, but . . .
by FISHMAN%SNYFARVA.bitnet＠CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I read Eric's "welcome" file several times after signing on and *know* that I sent a request to unsubscribe to the correct address; I also recall his stating that sending an unsub message here would tar and feather me as a "newbie," but . . . two attempts to unsub via the prescribed route have yielded nothing more than an additional 75 or more files from this list. I respect the effort being made but can recognize it when I'm over my head: I'm a poet not a programmer. And I need help extricating myself from this web. Thanks. Cordially, *************** Charles Fishman

2 1

a reference to STS
by hughes＠ah.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here's the reference for the STS paper. STS is the Station-to-Station protocol. _Authentication and Authenticated Key Exchanges_ by Diffie, Oorschot, Wiener _Designs, Codes and Cryptography 2_, pp 107-125 1992 Eric

1 0

No Subject
by nobody＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I'm moving to Oceania.

4 3

Re: Cyberspace, Crypto Anarchy, and Pushing Limits
by Hal 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A thought-provoking essay as usual from Tim. However, I see a contradiction between: > * Crypto means access to "regions" can be controlled by "owners": > > - "my house, my rules" enforced locally, without central State > authority and: > * Physical location of cyberspace locations will be increasingly hard > to pin down. A vast "labyrinth of rooms and corridors" might be > physically instantiated on a computer in Malaysia, while a "virtual > gambling hall" is being run via cryptographic cutouts (remailers) from > someone's bedroom in Provo, Utah. The problem I have is that it is not clear that cyberspace is a space, that one can identify regions which have boundaries, and which can be patrolled by owners. These physical, 2-D and 3-D concepts do not map well to cyberspace. Cyberspace is more of a mental conception, a meeting of the minds. It's not clear that it can be owned. For a concrete example, who owns the Cypherpunks list? Tim and Eric started it, Eric keeps the software working, and John Gilmore supplies the machine, as I understand it (apologies if I am leaving someone out). Do they own the list? What about the role of the contributors? Aren't they the ones who give the list value? (Granted, Tim, Eric and John have been some of the best contributors, but that is separate from their role, if any, as owners of the list.) Suppose, as Tim implies, that the list someday evolved to be some kind of virtual list, hosted on a flexible network of machines around the globe. Who would the owners be then? I would suggest that there would not nec- essarily be any. The list would be a voluntary meeting place for people who had certain interests. Its existance would be essentially defined by the commonality of that interest. It exists not in a cyberspace thought of as machines on a net of wires and fiber, but in a conceptual space that transcends the physical machines which support it. The issue of the ownership of cyberspace has similarities more to the ownership of intellectual property than of houses and roads and other physical objects, IMO. And the problems which arise when you try to fence off part of intellectual property space will also be a part of attempts to own cyberspace. Just another view - Hal

4 3

NSA security manual
by Jeff Davis 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Well Grady, You already know it's authentic. I'd love to call some of those secure phone #'s and see if my voice print still works. It would be a scream if it did >;) If any of you have tried one of the secure numbers out of curiosity, (and I've been out of the loop since 18 February 1983), you'll get a ring and a pause, then a rapid busy signal. This also lends credibility to my Psychological Warfare Primer, albeit subtely. I stated that the heavyweights in intelligence were the DIA, NSA, and the CIA, in that order. If *green* clearances are mere TS/IS, the DIA feeds them as well on a need-to-know basis. My analysis of the NSA mission is cryptography, (thanks for the hot tip, eh?), and interception. When AT&T broke up, it became possible to intercept transmissions that were previously protected by the monopoly. NSA is privy to all sorts of stuff, open long distance phone calls they can snag off the satellites without a warrent. They're pretty much public domain if one has the technology. Another thing I noticed was the Drug Policy. You note that they leave "authorized" drug use open. Amphetimines are SOP in some combat and combat simulation exercises. Christ, you want to laugh til tears roll down your cheeks, read the FOIA stuff released on the CIA's human experimentation with LSD. True keystone cop stuff. John Barlow and I were drinking some cokes and shooting the breeze here in Laramie a little over a year ago. He predicted an "opening" of the intelligence agencies after Clinton was elected- (This was the second to last weekend in October to be precise). NOW I see what he means. Thanks Grady! So THAT'S what the DoD pogues do. Can't wait to see a Field Manual for DIA intelligence officers. -- PGP PUBLIC KEY via finger! JAFEFFM Speaking & Thinking For Myself! * eagle(a)deeptht.armory.com email info(a)eff.org * *** O U T L A W S On The E L E C T R O N I C F R O N T I E R **** ***** Committed to Free Public Internet Access for World Peace *****

1 0

Re: THOUGHT: Internation
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com T >Yes, the U.N. has quite a fascist declaration of rights. It includes T >such chestnuts as a right to a job, a right to shelter, a right to T >medical care, and the right of a country to control its press (cf. T >the UNESCO fiasco). No thanks. Also, the right to two weeks paid vacation a year. As a self-employed individual, I want all you UN advocates out there to pay for my two-week vacations since I've never had one. <g> DCF --- WinQwk 2.0b#1165

1 0

This List--Public, Private, or Other?
by tcmay＠netcom.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I have a few more things to say on the question Hal raised: is this list privately owned, publically owned, or is it something else? * It's effectively under the control of the folks mentioned (Huhges, Gilmore, Daniel, etc.), but.... * anyone with access to the mailing list names (cf. majordomo) could "invite" subscribers to try another list. Detweiler tried something like this with his "cypherwonks" group. The point: the "list" could move around. * sufficiently bizarre management practices on the List, such as if Eric decided to really crown himself King, would cause folks to leave. The point: the "list" is not permanent. * anyone trying to create their own Cypherpunks-type list would have to deal with inertia, head starts (by us), and so on. The point: sometimes inertia wins. In different words, the list exists as an "emergent phenomenon," like a popular trend or a fad. It's "official" existence is not crucial, as that could evaporated, change, etc. The hundreds of subscribers (can it really be 700?) find this list presumably more convenient than forming their own list, recruiting members, and achieving some critical mass. Call it a "Schelling point" in cyberspace, a meeting place. (A Schelling point is named after the game theorist, and can best be quickly described by an example: if Hal Finney and I agree to meet in Washington, D.C., without making further plans as to place, where might we meet? The Air and Space Museum? The base of the Washington Monument, the EFF offices? A limited number of points are likely to be independently picked by us--these are Schelling points for us. Prices are often Schelling points.) If enough of us "moved" to another list, or another machine, then that's "where" the Cypherpunks list would move to (it didn't happen with "Cypherwonks," for various and obvious reasons). The concept of "ownership" is thus tenuous. I would liken it to the "ownership" by a store of its customer base. Fry's Electronics "owns" the hacker-technophile customers it attracts in such throngs throughout the Bay Area, and no one (except the State, of course) can come in and command them to change their policies. But Fry's must be careful to not lose its customer base, which could easily happen (and will eventually, in all likelihood). To wrap it up: Cyberspace ownership has more similarities to the voluntary asssociations desscribed here--customer bases, clubs, subscriptions to magazines, etc.--than to conventional ideas of "public" and "private" property ownership. --Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^859433 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

1 0