- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

F2 hash?
by anonymous-remailer＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Does anyone have a descriptoin of the F2 hash? F2 is a secret hash from SecurityDynamics, and is used in their client software. (Its not the hash in the cards, but if anyone has a copy of that, it might be fun.) I'd be very interested in seeing source code in the public domain to try out a few hacks... Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

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Re:
by AJD013187＠aol.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

The Virtual Girlfriend and Virtual Boyfriend are artificial intelligence programs for your IBM PC or compatible and also for MACINTOSH. You can watch them, talk to them, ask them questions, tell them secrets, and relate with them. Watch them as you ask them to take off different clothes and guide them through many different activities. Watch and participate in the hottest sexual activities available on computer, including: several sexual positions, using many unique toys, even bringing in multiple partners. This is no doubt one of the most realistic, sexually stimulating computer games available. They will remember your name, birthday, your likes and your dislikes. Every time you start the program, they say different things, and act differently. Each time, they have a different personality. With the VGA digital graphics, The Virtual Girlfriend and Virtual Boyfriend software have some of the hottest, sexiest graphics out there. And with a Soundblaster or compatible card, you can actually hear their voice as they talk to you. This is the first adult software title that was designed for both heterosexual and homosexual people. I would like you to try the actual full copy out before it is put on the market. It will be sold for 1/5 of the actual price ($10.00) until I can get back some information on what people think of the program. Please give it a try and write back any comments. Thank you. If you are interested and would like to order a copy, then you can read the mailing instructions below. It comes in an unmarked package and is sent out at most 4 days after the order is received. You are not put on any mailing lists whatsoever, guaranteed. It will run on any 386, 486 or higher, and 100% IBM compatibles. Required is VGA graphics, and a hard drive. The sound card is optional. Macintosh requires at least 4 meg of ram. Virtual Girlfriend and Virtual Boyfriend are artificial intelligence programs, meaning they are completely interactive. It would be just like if you were talking to someone. You can actually have simple conversations. Their attitudes change with the different things you say, so you can say things that will upset them, and then say things that will please them. The more you play/talk with them, the more you learn what they can do, and what they like to do. It really is a blast. With all these movies coming out about virtual reality, it's amazing to actually have a virtual reality program like this for your own computer. It's easy to install, and instructions are easy to follow. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Special Software Offer~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is to inform you about the new adult game that VCS Magazine rated "The best game of "97". "The Search for Paradise is no doubt one of the greatest XXX adult games available". The first games where it is as much fun as it is a turn on! Travel the world to every continent, every country you can think of, and meet some of the most beautiful women in existence. These women will treat you like a king and obey your every command. Any sexual wish you can think of, these women know it all. There is a different paradise for every guy out there, and this game will have them all. This game uses real models, digital video, and digital sound to make it as realistic as possible. You will feel like you're in the same room as the girl you're talking to!!! As an added bonus you'll receive "Club Celebrity X" Meet, talk to and even have your way with the celebrities of your choice. Imagine being in a club with some very beautiful, well known, actual celebrities! You have seen these girls on T.V., Magazines and billboard ads. Now they are on your computer begging for action. This game is hot and once you start playing, you won't be able to stop!!! ~Required: 386 or better, 4 meg ram or better, Windows 3.1 or higher (Win95 is fine), sound card is optional, Rom is optional. (Game is given either CD-rom or compressed 3.5" diskettes).~~$19.95! Order now and get everything for just $24.95!!!! At your request, the programs can come with a password protection utility that only allows the program to run when the correct password is entered. (You must be 18 or over to purchase) Please fill out the following form and mail it to the address above. (Feel free to write out the order form by hand) Questions? Email us at: Virtualfriends4(a)hotmail.com - Send to: Mark Wrhel P.O. Box 0118 Tujunga, Ca. 91043 Your Name ___________________________________________ Date ____________ Address ______________________________________________________________ City ____________________________ State __________ Zip Code ______________ Phone# _____________________ E-mail Address ___________________________ Do you have an IBM ( ) or MAC ( )? CD rom ( ) or Disks ( )? ( ) Virtual Girdfriend or ( ) Boyfriend for $10.00 ( ) *both just $15.95 ( ) The Search for Paradise and Club Celebrity X for $19.95 ( ) Everything!!! The Search for Paradise, Club Celebrity X, Virtual Girlfriend and Virtual Boyfriend. >>>>All for just $24.95<<<<

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Scared of US; Where to relocate?
by lcs Mixmaster Remailer 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>It has become very clear to me over the past few years that amerika >is headed for some pretty rough times, and I've decided to leave before >it becomes illegal for me to do so. The only question is, where to? Lagrange 5 and Mars are good choices. The near side of the Earth moon doesn't qualify and neither does Earth orbit since it's so easy to shoot you down.

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In Burma, the Internet is access to democracy, from Newsday
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A very nice piece in Newsday. My writeup of my visit to Burma a year ago is at: http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/editorial/0,1012,475,00.html Because of roadblocks, I had to hike across fields and through villages to get to the site of the sole Burmese Net-connection at a local university. It was set to become operational in spring 1997. I also heard of unconfirmed reports that the military had a Net-connection through a friendly nearby country, probably Singapore. (Perhaps to monitor soc.culture.burma or somesuch.) BTW, the best mailing list on Burma news I've found is burmanews-l(a)igc.apc.org. I also hid my interview notes in the bottom of my bag. I made an extra copy of the crucial ones and put the paper in my wallet, just in case. -Declan ************* Newsday (New York, NY) November 12, 1997 LIFE IN CYBERSPACE / FOR MANY, THE INTERNET IS ACCESS TO DEMOCRACY By Matthew McAllester RANGOON, Burma THE MAN LEANED across the table and spoke so quietly that no one but the two of us could hear. His eyes moved from side to side, scanning the restaurant and the street outside for possible informers or military intelligence agents. That's the way people communicate in Burma when they're talking with a foreigner about something that could land them in prison for several years. "You know what?" the man said. "I got e-mail." "You can't have," I said. For several reasons I knew he had to be telling me a tall story. For a start, it's illegal to access the Internet in Burma. It's illegal to own an unlicensed fax machine or modem. A few years ago a supporter of the largest pro-democracy party in Burma died in prison, where he'd been sent because he did not have a license for his fax machine. Besides, no one has e-mail or Internet access in Burma except for a select few business owners who are friendly with the military regime that rules the country. Diplomats at a few foreign embassies also acknowledge that they have Net access and e-mail despite the Burmese government's restrictions. Even then, they say their e-mail is intercepted and read by the Burmese authorities. This is a country where reporters have to visit in the guise of tourists, which is how I traveled in September and October. In Burma, all international calls are listened to by the operator and, the Burmese people assume, by military intelligence. When I wanted to make a call to the United States, the receptionist at my hotel told me it would cost $35 for five minutes if I wanted to dial direct. I opted for the storefront down the road, where I sat for 30 minutes waiting for a connection. When I got through to my friend, I was less than chatty about what I'd been up to. So how could the man I was talking to across the table possibly have navigated these political and technological barriers to get e-mail? "No, I do. I got it," he said. The man smiled. He's a fixer. A small business owner. People come to him for help. He's thinking of offering people access to his Net account - for a price. Most of all, he looks out for himself, keeping on the right side of the military authorities but not showing them the fear they are so used to seeing in the faces of Burmese people. "I dial out anywhere I can," he said. "My account is in Australia, but I'll use a server from anywhere. Anywhere." For the sake of communicating with the outside world, the man was prepared to risk prison. I've written before about how a good number of governments around the world restrict or ban Internet access to their citizens. Free-speech advocates told me how some governments fear the spread of anti-government information and opinions that dissent from the official line. The advocates told me how democratizing the Internet is by its nature. But being told and seeing with one's own eyes is a very different experience. After a couple of weeks viewing how the military government's system of informers and control of information contributed to its firm grip on power, I could understand why it has banned the Net. The Net's speed and resistance to control would be an unstoppable force in organizing opposition to the military regime. "What would happen if you had Net access?" I asked another Burmese man, who spoke in a whisper even when he was alone at home. "The government, it would be over," he said. "We could share information." Information and open communication in an oppressive state like Burma are invaluable tools in fighting the status quo. I spent some time one evening in Rangoon with U Tin Oo, a former general in the Burmese army and now a senior leader of the National League for Democracy, the largest pro-democracy party. All told, he's spent nine years in prison for his political activities. As we spoke, the phone often rang. Delegates to the party conference that weekend were en route to Rangoon, and they called Tin Oo to discuss the event. The conversations were superficial. "They tap my phone always," Tin Oo explained. When I left I had to take two taxis and walk among crowds in downtown Rangoon to shake the military intelligence officials that a pro-democracy contact had said would follow me. I worried about my own information, my notes. I longed to be able to turn them into ones and zeroes and e-mail them home. Instead, I hid them at the bottom of my backpack. A couple of weeks later I was in Thailand, interviewing Burmese dissidents and refugees who have fled the Burmese government. Working with them in the north of Thailand are several westerners who work as human-rights campaigners, doctors and advocates for the refugees. E-mail is an important tool in their work, as it helps them coordinate with people outside Thailand. One woman collects every story she can find about Burma into the BurmaNet News e-mail newsletter. BurmaNet News is delivered to the e-mail boxes of hundreds of journalists, activists and government officials around the world. It's precisely the kind of democratizing spread of information that the Burmese people are denied. But even in Thailand there are problems. The human-rights advocates and health workers use encryption when communicating online. "They read all our e-mail," said an Australian doctor, referring to the Thai authorities. The Thai government maintains diplomatic relations with the Burmese government, a pariah regime to many other democracies. "The other day I tried to get my e-mail and my password had been changed."

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Re: Selling a Persistent Identity
by nobody＠neva.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Amad3us wrote: >Try this Monty: > >The new owner of the Monty persona is defined to be the first public >key which is signed by Monty's private key and posted to this forum. > >So the buyer sends Monty a public key, and Monty signs it and posts >it to the list. (Optionally via a trusted third party to ensure fair >play. There is a race condition in the making there but it's not too >bad, we could fix it if we were bothered.) > >So Monty can cheat and post one he signed earlier selling to a >different key, but we will ignore those because we base it on first >posted. > >Buyers will no longer be interested in buying Monty's persona after >they have seen it sold, because they know it is no longer his. > >The person who buys Monty's persona could resell it. Using the same >protocol. This arrangement has analogs in the real world. When a doctor sells his practice, the patients are all notified. But, I think there are some True Name issues. The doctor tends to assure the patients that he has carefully selected the new doctor. People know the doctor and as a consequence tend to believe him. This isn't really true of an anonymous persistent identity. Let's say it was doing a significant amount of business. If you knew that its ownership had changed, you might hesitate before doing a deal which had a lot of fraud exposure. On the other hand, the purchaser of the identity has an investment which he may not want to endanger. If the identity cost $1 million and the outstanding deals only amounted to $100,000, fraud would be a bad deal for the owner. One reason why trading anonymous identities is a good idea is that it baffles pursuit. Every time you use one, information is revealed. Even if you are doing things like transmitting 100K to the remailers every hour, from time to time your net connection will go down, or whatever, and increase the odds that The Enemy will have a more accurate picture of your True Name. (This works best if the transaction is handled privately.) But, if the persistent identity starts operating from someplace else, it makes those attacks quite a bit more difficult, especially if there is no public announcement regarding the change of ownership. The transaction makes sense even if two identities of equal value are traded. (BTW, "Monty Cantsin" a.k.a. 0x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is not for sale. After using one persistent identity for awhile, you become emotionally attached to it!) Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNGn0xJaWtjSmRH/5AQH3tAf/TYxrCZxJj4aUMsiKISjMzNByhwDRjfxN xkbuU4JHTklEbOmwwoz1x8goK8vmibVV35Z7Q8p4mP6fPMACJE8k/sLkMJ+EAW0r pnT8khQM4Vh2wNwpk/6FGxABjt+pIJEDdWmVaz7N5exUS3wfT/kvPelnbvHQrRUW PSjJNWQTCW+GbmVF8/e1In4oPKF+gQtAvdlH6OIjkZCJHyEpT7Bk/xKlRJlYsMC+ /UixmqhE1VsuZp3u5UjGI1zJMh96u8gzzJmYWpeYEV7mx+S5tcYlwzWjdn6EXif2 K9/90eqs+12jGNP0gtpKlL34OYQIINIzezptqodlG+5PcY6PN3NrmQ== =L4es -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Secure Hashing for Entropy
by nobody＠neva.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Jon Leonard wrote: >Monty Cantsin wrote: >> Often we have a source of entropy whose output we use as the input to >> a secure hash function. >> >> Does it matter if the hashing function is secure? I don't think so. >> All that really matters is that the function hashes evenly so that any >> input string is about as likely as any other input string to result in >> a particular hash. Even if the hash function is weak and collisions >> can be found, if it is even the same level of entropy is still >> available. >> >> Have I got this right? > >In the case where: >1) Your entropy source is as good as you think it is >2) Your opponent knows nothing about the data from your entropy source >and >3) Your entropy mixes the way you expect it to. > >this is indeed the case. > >If you're not completely sure about the above, using a cryptographic >hash requires your hypothetical opponent to be able to reverse the hash >to exploit what they know, rather than simpler computations. > >Since it seems that paranoia pays off in the design of cryptographic >software, I'd recommend always using a strong hash. Let's say you are using the entropy to create a session key for a symmetric cipher. If The Enemy can guess the session key, you have already lost the game. It doesn't matter if the original entropy-containing string can be guessed because the hash was weak. If your entropy source is weak and the original string can be guessed, then you've lost the game even if the hash function is strong. The Enemy knows how to compute hashes as well as you do. But, I think I now see a way a secure hash can sort of help you. Let's say you have an entropy source which gives you a base 3 number of arbitrary length. There is no even way to map base 3 numbers into base 2 numbers. Use of a hash function obscures the mapping. For example, we want a random 8 bit number. We can get this by generating a 6 digit base 3 number, P, and computing P mod 2^8. This has the unappealing property that it overlaps unevenly. 3^6 = 729 = 2 * 256 + 217. There is an 89.3% chance that the resulting number will be between 0 and 216, inclusive. The probability should be 84.7%. This gives The Enemy an edge if there are a number of messages to be broken. The cost to guarantee a break on a particular message is still the same. The use of a secure hash means that we can hope that the nature of the overlap cannot be determined. The downside is that there are no secure hash functions whose properties are completely understood. All we know for sure is that not much is really known to the public. So, the secure hash function in your crypto system could be reducing your effective entropy substantially if your entropic strings just happen to hash down to a smaller subset of possible hashes than expected. The use of the secure hash function may obscure what is happening from The Enemy. All we know for sure is that it obscures it from ourselves. Ideally, we want to match our sources of entropy with the base of the random number desired and eliminate the question. In the field, the most widely available and reliable entropy generator is a six sided die. If we are using a cipher which takes a base 2 key, this is inconvenient. You can only get one really good bit out of each throw. How hard would to be to construct a secure symmetric cipher which accepted a base 6 key? Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNGoiSJaWtjSmRH/5AQFzaAf+Jm1wlPlC9obQQLoRoss2qpLv5z900X9Z 2u3NO5eG/W9QQRUWTeqzeXOK3Ps8DYKhYXhgYy35AJy6uRrd5820MUUGULAhr0zH JqfVFU6FUGEgEpZsxxLTAVvU/OPx5g3LqeQJfsp92pOsIoeObhiBh6+1zxNLWHU5 fxSrDJAe9eANeUJ5nXlLBGtGwg9ZfvVw4+OWsLpO3ZsQXp+mke+dvz423WukqaQi VJ1VM+XTRBetRCZIuIcqKoCdkYrB2h/S0KIprp/7lHFOpIZWfo++p87BZm0LQuF5 Suo+NGSMtooCZwLYpPQrlQLtB51An8TjdVfr7k2YkUXpxPLcEp6CEg== =om47 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Quantum Computing progress - physnews update.388
by Oskar Pearson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi I hope that this is relevant, apologies if it isn't. I am neither a physicist, nor a crypto-oriented-mathematician... I am a part-time software developer and Unix support person :) As for the standard paranoia: trichloroethylene isn't in Ispell's dictionary. The NSA have obviously infiltrated the Linux/Freeware developer community. More proof that we are simply trailing behind the NSA in crypto technology. First link from altavista search for +"quantum computing" +cryptography Probably irrelevant :) http://hwilwww.rdec.redstone.army.mil/MICOM/wsd/ST/RES/QC/qc.html >From a mailing list I am on: 0--------------------------------------------------------------------------0 Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:03:05 -0400 (EDT) From: physnews(a)aip.org (AIP listserver) Message-Id: <199809031803.OAA01296(a)aip.org> To: physnews-mailing(a)aip.org Subject: update.388 PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News Number 388 September 3, 1998 by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben Stein QUANTUM ERROR CORRECTION has been experimentally demonstrated for the first time, greatly advancing the promise of carrying out interesting calculations with quantum computers (Updates 310 and 367). Skeptics have maintained that quantum computers would crash before carrying out a useful calculation since the devices rely on fragile, easily corrupted quantum states. Proposed in 1995 and developed unceasingly since then, quantum error correction has been all theory up until now. Aiming radio- frequency pulses at a liquid solution of alanine or trichloroethylene molecules, researchers at Los Alamos and MIT (Raymond Laflamme, 505-665-3394) spread a single bit of quantum information onto three nuclear spins in each molecule. Spreading out the information made it harder to corrupt. The bit of information was a combination or "superposition" of the values 0 and 1, so that it represented a little amount of 0 and a little amount of 1 at the same time. Measuring the spins directly would destroy this superposition and force the bit to become a 0 or a 1. So, the researchers instead "entangled" or interlinked the properties of the three spins. This allowed them to compare the spins to see if any new differences arose between them without learning the bit of information itself. With this technique, they were able to detect and fix errors in a bit's "phase coherence," the phase relationship between the quantum waves corresponding to the 0 and 1 states.(D.G. Cory et al., Physical Review Letters, 7 Sept 1998.) <remainder cut - about baseball bats :)> -------------------

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Re: Spamming (Good or Bad?)
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 5:16 AM 8/21/96, Paul S. Penrod wrote: >On Tue, 20 Aug 1996, Ross Wright wrote: >> Market Droids???? As a salesman I take offence at this slur. Sales droids are subservient to market droids...sort of like R2D2, a sales droid, getting his marching orders from C3PO, a market droid. >As for spamming, I get enough of it via snail-mail, I don't want to see >it in my Inbox too. And, for the record, there are lots of people out >there who pay on the bulk charge, not by time. Sending advertising or >junk mail to these folks costs them money, maybe not much for the one >message you sent, but several thousand over a month of a quarter add up >to real money. > >There is a time and place for legitimate advertising. I am sure that >given time and impetus, a number of clear channel venues will open up to >allow precision marketing and sales to happen electronicly. > >At the moment, it's bad nettiquette... The basic problem is that, unlike paper mail, it costs a sender essentially nothing to send nearly any size file to as many people as he wishes. This is the basic economic fact of the Net at this time. Until this eventually changes, spamming will be with us. (I understand experts in the field of "spamming" have various names for various flavors: spam, velveeta, jerky, etc. I'll call them all "unwanted messages.") The problem is one of economics and allocation of costs. Other industries have the same issues: * fax machines: costs of paper are borne by receiver, leading to high bills when "junk faxes" are received (and hence some laws restricting such faxes) * cellular phones: receiver of calls usually is charged air time. Thus, "junk calls" cost money. (My physical mailbox probably gets about $1 a day of junk mail, in terms of postage paid. More, in terms of costs to print catalogs, fliers, freebies, etc. It takes me about 20 seconds, tops, to decide what to discard immediately and what to save, so at this point "their costs" > "my costs.") In my view, attempting to legislate what is "junk" and what is not junk is misguided. (And I suspect it rarely works in halting junk mail.) Junk is in the eye of the beholder. There are technological fixes which I would favor over attempts to ban unwanted messages. --Tim May Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: [SURVEY try again] pgp5.x / pgp2.x users
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Robert A. Costner wrote: > Just to skew the numbers, I for instance have PGP 5.0 but am using a 2.6.2 > DOS generated key that is RSA, not DSS. Grepping would show me to be PGP5.x, > which perhaps technically I am, but my key is really 2.x > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 This information is mostly for advertising/accreditation purposes. As such, it provides very little information useful for statistical purposes. e.g. - whether people are using PGP 5.X mostly for management of their PGP 2.6.X keys.

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Re: Return of the Living Zundel, from The Netly News
by Steve Thompson 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

In local.lists.cypherpunks-moderated you write: >http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/editorial/0,1012,1561,00.html >The Netly News Network (http://netlynews.com/) > "A lot of people think this case is about censoring the Net," > said Bernie Farber, national director of community relations for the > Canadian Jewish Congress. "It isn't. It's about a Canadian violating > Canadian law. In Canada and in every other Western democracy but the > U.S., there are limits to free speech and one of those points is > vilification. I should feel I have as much right to get on the Net and > not feel demeaned because I'm a part of a particular group." I took a short 'course' on hate-crimes in downtown Toronto where this goof was the speaker. In very short order, I had decided that his agenda was merely to be in some small position of authority. He's a pro-censorship freak who wants to protect the chiiillldreeeen from views he doesn't like. It was quite amusing to pin him down a little -- he squirmed and stated that he _did_ want the government to protect him from things he didn't want to hear; in a rather shrill tone. It made me laugh in retrospect but at the time I was, I confess, shocked -- having encountered such idiocy only in print or on USENET. I wish that I had been better at articulating my thoughts during some of the discussions during the 'course'. It was difficult to portray the idea that well-supported arguements are the only _fair_ means to debunk someone else's ideas with which you disagree. I suppose that I should not have been suprised that the other participants in the course were sympathetic to Bernie's right-wing leanings, but there was a woman who owned or ran a feminist bookstore who admitted that many books ordered by her store had been held (or outright banned(?) by Canada Customs based on content; and yet, she was more-or-less in agreement with this proto-tyrant with respect to the issue of supressing the ideas of white supremists. It boggles the mind. -- Steve Thompson Misanthrope System Admin O.B. Spam: bogus(a)myofb.org --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lately every time you turn around somebody's saying: "The eighties are coming!" Like at the stroke of midnite on New Year's Eve it's all gonna be _different_! And when you tell 'em, "Come on, you know everything's just gonna keep on slowly sinking," they get downright _mad_! -- Lester Bangs, December 1979

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