- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: Going AP Shit on the Internet
by Dale Thorn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Black Art wrote: > At 06:22 PM 9/21/96 -0700, Dale Thorn wrote: > >[more examples of "why it wouldn't work" deleted] > >This is like Buliosi hyping his superior strategy all over TV (at > >least > >he had the decency to say the jury was basically honest). It's still > >strategy, folks. It doesn't say anything about the people's right to > >have more control over what is already happening. I just wish > >entities like Black Art would say "I'm doing all I possibly can to > >make sure the people DO get involved when govt. *decides* to murder > >someone". Then, entities like Black Art wouldn't be able to stand > >back in their righteousness and say that they're NOT responsible for > >what their govts. do. > What do you mean "when"? Government murders people all the time. As > for when you will find out about it... Most of the time, you will > not. Governments have gotten very good at hiding their crimes. Either > by orders of secrecy, appeals to patriotism, or doing it out of view > of the general public. > I realize my limitations in taking on an enitity as large as Uncle > Sugar. I do what I can to foil his plans (which is not much), but I do > not believe for a moment that he actually listens to the cries of the > peasants unless he wants to. Government is like a servant. He > wanders about your house at > all hours. Sneeks up on you when you are not looking. And will slip > something nasty into your drink if you become too much of a pain and > beleive that they will benifit by your death. > Governments are groups of individuals. Since they are not me, I have > no responsibility over their actions. (Any more than I have over > yours.) > Are you responsible for what your government does? Can we hold you > accountable for them? Punish you for those crimes? > I didn't think so. I'm hearing even more strategy, it would seem. I don't see the relevance of how govt. behaves (i.e., like a bad uncle who hangs around too long and molests the kids, etc.) to who's responsible. If you live in the U.S., that govt. is your agent, carrying out your representatives' instructions, and paid with your tax dollars. Unless and until this becomes a literal dictatorship (and there is a valid argument that it applies even then), you are responsible for whatever your paid agents do, from the street cop to the top politico. It's too bad your fellow citizens shirk their duty and watch TV instead, but issuing the above kinds of denial doesn't take the blood off of your hands or mine. Now maybe it would take God (for example) to judge whether you, I, or Joe Blow is more guilty, for lack of participation or some other citizen crime, but you can't put all the blame on your hired agents for their crimes, when you know very well what kinds of things they do, and you continue to fund them. You have to be considered an accessory, at least.

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A daily word of caution regarding Tim C[ocksucker] May
by nobody＠cypherpunks.ca 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

`A pen is mightier than a sword', not to mention Tim C[ocksucker] May's pea-sized penis. He would be better served by a safety razor, possibly applied in a bathtub filled with warm water (something he has surely never been into).

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Re: Timmy May's spam (Was: Re: CIA hacked)
by James A. Donald 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 08:55 AM 9/22/96 EDT, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM frothed: > I'm not "worried", since Timmy May has already earned the reputation of a > nutcase and a liar in these circles, Back to the kill file. --------------------------------------------------------------------- | We have the right to defend ourselves | http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ and our property, because of the kind | of animals that we are. True law | James A. Donald derives from this right, not from the | arbitrary power of the state. | jamesd(a)echeque.com

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Re: timmy waxes a widdle on AP
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 03:05 AM 9/22/96 EDT, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >I was reading the other day about the lessons learned from the one-time >tax refund in 1975. Most consumers realized that this is a one-time deal >and saved most of it, rather than spent it. On the other hand, after Reagan's >tax cuts the consumers spent much of their newly retained income because they >believed that the lower tax rate would continue for a few years. > >Likewise once an occasional gubment official in Mexico is assassinated >often enough for the population to perceive public service as being a >hazardous profession, they'll have trouble recruiting the replacements. >Assassinations won't work as long as they're perceived by the public as >zero-probability events. The public perception depends on other factors >besides the numbers or the frequency of the hits. That's generally correct. The "they'll just hire replacements" argument is given by people who don't understand that under full operation of AP, THINGS WILL CHANGE! And once things start changing, they will change very rapidly. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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WEB_spy
by jya＠pipeline.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

9-22-96. WaPo: "In California, Creating a Web of the Past" Brewster Kahle's massive data-collection devices and programmed computers are surfing and saving everything they can find on the global computer network. At the end of this year that then will be updated as fast as his computers can do their vacuum cleaning, likely every few months. But the project also has piqued the interest of privacy rights advocates and copyright lawyers, who question how the archive will use its data. "I'm dealing with every single intellectual property issue out there," Kahle said. "Privacy, copyright, pornography, import-export -- we've got it all." He is forming a for-profit venture that will sell the Web searching and storing technology developed at the archives. Researchers from AT&T Corp. and Xerox Corp. have asked to study the archive. ----- http://jya.com/webspy.txt (7 kb) WEB_spy

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Continuing spam from Timmy May (or one of his clones)
by dlv＠bwalk.dm.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Here's today's sample. I'm becoming more convinced that it's Timmy May him/her/ itself, since he/she/it complains about being called Timmy. Can someone please take a look at the headers and see if they appear to be forged from got.net? ]From paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 22 10:59:25 1996 ]Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) ] via UUCP; Sun, 22 Sep 96 11:03:58 EDT ] for dlv ]Received: from uumx.smtp.psi.net by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via SMTP; ] id AA19743 for dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com; Sun, 22 Sep 96 10:59:25 -0400 ]Received: from relay-2.mail.demon.net by uumx.smtp.psi.net (8.6.12/SMI-4.1.3-PSI) ] id KAA19486; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 10:59:00 -0400 ]From: paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk ]Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([(null)]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id ac22319; ] 22 Sep 96 15:23 BST ]Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk ([158.152.120.223]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net ] id aa17044; 22 Sep 96 15:19 BST ]Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk by fatmans.demon.co.uk with SMTP ] id AA843329591 ; Sat, 21 Sep 96 18:13:11 +0000 ]Comments: Authenticated sender is <paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> ]To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> ]Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:13:06 +0000 ]Mime-Version: 1.0 ]Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII ]Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ]Subject: Re: CIA hacked ]Priority: normal ]X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.31) ]Message-Id: <843401964.17044.0(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> ] ] ]His name is Tim, or maybe you never learnt proper manners. ] ] ]> You are confused. The above question was e-mailed to me by one of Timmy May's ]> friends. I just forward their e-mail to this mailing list. I don't read it. ]> If you have any comments about Timmy May's friends not knowing English, ]> trying to insult people, and posting non-crypto-relevant political rants, ]> address them to Timmy May and his friends. ]> ]> --- ]> ]> Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM ]> Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps ]> ] ] Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security ] Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk ] Http://www.fatmans.demon.co.uk/crypt/ ] "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" ] ]-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ]Version: 2.6.3ia ] ]mQCNAjH9j+cAAAEEAMBvREiQR0ot9dFCO0TiSCSunAYLv2g1Bc6I3bz8FzKXNH53 ]6mieJf/W4rD+CxJpT0q9RQaaoRtkHJLwbjfK2il3D7mEahMAyqvF/xRJNqkXfhM3 ]sRJM0Jh43l+W0M5vwokbEbk25/bxWWGspTsLD3YHbzKnG6pOcL5OPIRbv66xAAUR ]tCdQYXVsIEJyYWRsZXkgPHBhdWxAZmF0bWFucy5kZW1vbi5jby51az6JAJUDBRAy ]NwfvNkCBjDT0xHEBATQPA/9TORmN/UjNecj03q4anpvdyCLiez5sKuNbnYK50RiP ]Jj4QpWWvST3smyQ0A86DrZY/re056MXwQmARESx0rFZxdnD0oORICl5r8dJLIy3b ]j8rbA5olXwZwKz73/X5s13v/pvHYX4cIsbVK8NHXqh5llSKt6TBAuGgkIGF29z5k ]C4kAlQMFEDI3B9mdtf/umVkv7QEBcRYD/1FBteLqsUmr81euxqqnnrpLlyHb58B/ ]9sdATuua4uSjX46hXDZ264YozspNrzSB4NEdrmXOWVX3fiE0ga6XkSSkIeF23V90 ]En37Z0BdbFzgF00FRYTFyTq8eezQrdg/+rBPUsZUmG5wpq3e12FKHQsX01i+1mB2 ]YmqqwCV5e95eiQCVAgUQMh8uSb5OPIRbv66xAQEqJwP/fxQyiCasjFcbDpsFfsYp ]put5cCC/9pOx6X3DlbKShPMpUOS+A9HsTEmJQN8Iawv1nSwPdtc2cR/GhW6ilVjW ]LSloGdMVLabm9pGpZZMkRaZlXFUkOv7VhfgsUiL+vIDryBCAwUZCzQiWycjt/cPi ]mUqFH41Z7NkyO8ZFdi5GGX0= ]=CMZA ]-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Here the Timmy May clone comments on his own previous e-mail to me: ]From paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 22 10:22:38 1996 ]Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) ] via UUCP; Sun, 22 Sep 96 11:03:51 EDT ] for dlv ]Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via SMTP; ] id AA18447 for dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com; Sun, 22 Sep 96 10:22:38 -0400 ]Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([(null)]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id ac21657; ] 22 Sep 96 15:21 BST ]Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk ([158.152.120.223]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net ] id aa17072; 22 Sep 96 15:19 BST ]Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk by fatmans.demon.co.uk with SMTP ] id AA843327445 ; Sat, 21 Sep 96 17:37:25 +0000 ]Comments: Authenticated sender is <paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> ]From: paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk ]To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> ]Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 17:37:23 +0000 ]Mime-Version: 1.0 ]Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII ]Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ]Subject: Re: CIA hacked ]Priority: normal ]X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.31) ]Message-Id: <843401979.17072.0(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> ] ]> >Dr. John M. Grubor created the 'net. ]> ]> Who created you? You tub of shit? ] ] ]Fuck you and fuck your cheap ass fucked up life motherfucker (look ]for the fuck redundancy index here, should be an interesting figure, ]motherfucker) ] ]good day to you ] ] ] ] Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security ] Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk ] Http://www.fatmans.demon.co.uk/crypt/ ] "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" ] ]-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ]Version: 2.6.3ia ] ]mQCNAjH9j+cAAAEEAMBvREiQR0ot9dFCO0TiSCSunAYLv2g1Bc6I3bz8FzKXNH53 ]6mieJf/W4rD+CxJpT0q9RQaaoRtkHJLwbjfK2il3D7mEahMAyqvF/xRJNqkXfhM3 ]sRJM0Jh43l+W0M5vwokbEbk25/bxWWGspTsLD3YHbzKnG6pOcL5OPIRbv66xAAUR ]tCdQYXVsIEJyYWRsZXkgPHBhdWxAZmF0bWFucy5kZW1vbi5jby51az6JAJUDBRAy ]NwfvNkCBjDT0xHEBATQPA/9TORmN/UjNecj03q4anpvdyCLiez5sKuNbnYK50RiP ]Jj4QpWWvST3smyQ0A86DrZY/re056MXwQmARESx0rFZxdnD0oORICl5r8dJLIy3b ]j8rbA5olXwZwKz73/X5s13v/pvHYX4cIsbVK8NHXqh5llSKt6TBAuGgkIGF29z5k ]C4kAlQMFEDI3B9mdtf/umVkv7QEBcRYD/1FBteLqsUmr81euxqqnnrpLlyHb58B/ ]9sdATuua4uSjX46hXDZ264YozspNrzSB4NEdrmXOWVX3fiE0ga6XkSSkIeF23V90 ]En37Z0BdbFzgF00FRYTFyTq8eezQrdg/+rBPUsZUmG5wpq3e12FKHQsX01i+1mB2 ]YmqqwCV5e95eiQCVAgUQMh8uSb5OPIRbv66xAQEqJwP/fxQyiCasjFcbDpsFfsYp ]put5cCC/9pOx6X3DlbKShPMpUOS+A9HsTEmJQN8Iawv1nSwPdtc2cR/GhW6ilVjW ]LSloGdMVLabm9pGpZZMkRaZlXFUkOv7VhfgsUiL+vIDryBCAwUZCzQiWycjt/cPi ]mUqFH41Z7NkyO8ZFdi5GGX0= ]=CMZA ]-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ]From paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 22 10:23:35 1996 ]Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) ] via UUCP; Sun, 22 Sep 96 11:03:52 EDT ] for dlv ]Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via SMTP; ] id AA18472 for dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com; Sun, 22 Sep 96 10:23:35 -0400 ]Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([(null)]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id ae22319; ] 22 Sep 96 15:23 BST ]Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk ([158.152.120.223]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net ] id aa17051; 22 Sep 96 15:19 BST ]Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk by fatmans.demon.co.uk with SMTP ] id AA843329594 ; Sat, 21 Sep 96 18:13:14 +0000 ]Comments: Authenticated sender is <paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> ]From: paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk ]To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> ]Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:13:06 +0000 ]Mime-Version: 1.0 ]Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII ]Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ]Subject: Re: Re: CIA hacked ]Priority: normal ]X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.31) ]Message-Id: <843401966.17051.0(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> ] ] ]This is a further post following an earlier flame: ] ]> You are being flamed because. ]> ]> [X] you continued a boring useless stupid thread ]> [ ] you repeatedly posted to the same thread that you just posted to ]> [x] you repeatedly initiated incoherent, flaky, and mindless threads ]> [ ] you posted a piece riddled with profanities ]> [ ] you advocated Net censorship ]> [ ] you SCREAMED! (used all caps) ]> [x] you posted some sort of crap that doesn't belong in this group ]> [ ] you posted the inanely stupid 'Make Money Fast' article ]> [ ] you threatened others with physical harm ]> [x] you made a bigoted statement(s) ]> [x] you repeatedly assumed unwarranted moral or intellectual superiority ]> [x] you are under the misapprehension that this list is your preserve ]> [ ] you repeatedly shown lack of humor ]> [ ] you are apparently under compulsion to post to every thread ]> [x] you are posting an anonymous attack ]> ]> >>> Thank you for the time you have taken to read this. Live n' Learn.<<< ] ]Furthermore, you qualify as the celebrity fuckhead of the week, have ]a nice day. ] ] ] Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security ] Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk ] Http://www.fatmans.demon.co.uk/crypt/ ] "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" ] ]-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ]Version: 2.6.3ia ] ]mQCNAjH9j+cAAAEEAMBvREiQR0ot9dFCO0TiSCSunAYLv2g1Bc6I3bz8FzKXNH53 ]6mieJf/W4rD+CxJpT0q9RQaaoRtkHJLwbjfK2il3D7mEahMAyqvF/xRJNqkXfhM3 ]sRJM0Jh43l+W0M5vwokbEbk25/bxWWGspTsLD3YHbzKnG6pOcL5OPIRbv66xAAUR ]tCdQYXVsIEJyYWRsZXkgPHBhdWxAZmF0bWFucy5kZW1vbi5jby51az6JAJUDBRAy ]NwfvNkCBjDT0xHEBATQPA/9TORmN/UjNecj03q4anpvdyCLiez5sKuNbnYK50RiP ]Jj4QpWWvST3smyQ0A86DrZY/re056MXwQmARESx0rFZxdnD0oORICl5r8dJLIy3b ]j8rbA5olXwZwKz73/X5s13v/pvHYX4cIsbVK8NHXqh5llSKt6TBAuGgkIGF29z5k ]C4kAlQMFEDI3B9mdtf/umVkv7QEBcRYD/1FBteLqsUmr81euxqqnnrpLlyHb58B/ ]9sdATuua4uSjX46hXDZ264YozspNrzSB4NEdrmXOWVX3fiE0ga6XkSSkIeF23V90 ]En37Z0BdbFzgF00FRYTFyTq8eezQrdg/+rBPUsZUmG5wpq3e12FKHQsX01i+1mB2 ]YmqqwCV5e95eiQCVAgUQMh8uSb5OPIRbv66xAQEqJwP/fxQyiCasjFcbDpsFfsYp ]put5cCC/9pOx6X3DlbKShPMpUOS+A9HsTEmJQN8Iawv1nSwPdtc2cR/GhW6ilVjW ]LSloGdMVLabm9pGpZZMkRaZlXFUkOv7VhfgsUiL+vIDryBCAwUZCzQiWycjt/cPi ]mUqFH41Z7NkyO8ZFdi5GGX0= ]=CMZA ]-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ]From paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 22 10:51:12 1996 ]Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) ] via UUCP; Sun, 22 Sep 96 11:03:58 EDT for dlv ]Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via SMTP; ] id AA19533 for dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com; Sun, 22 Sep 96 10:51:12 -0400 ]Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([(null)]) by relay-2.mail.demon.net id ad22319; ] 22 Sep 96 15:23 BST ]Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk ([158.152.120.223]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net ] id aa17045; 22 Sep 96 15:19 BST ]Received: from fatmans.demon.co.uk by fatmans.demon.co.uk with SMTP ] id AA843329593 ; Sat, 21 Sep 96 18:13:13 +0000 ]Comments: Authenticated sender is <paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> ]From: paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk ]To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com> ]Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:13:06 +0000 ]Mime-Version: 1.0 ]Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII ]Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ]Subject: Re: Dimitri Spams ]Priority: normal ]X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.31) ]Message-Id: <843401965.17045.0(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk> ] ] ]Killifiling you would be a pleasure, however, it is an even greater ]pleasure to be able to flame you because of your worthless posts, ]this is probably why he didn`t... ] ]Get a life. ] ] ]> > Dimitri, get a life! We need Dimitri Spams as much as we needed ]> > Perrygrams. Which is to say, we need them not at all! ]> ]> I see you lied when you claimed to have killfiled me. ]> ]> --- ]> ]> Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM ]> Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps ]> ] ] Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security ] Paul Bradley, Paul(a)fatmans.demon.co.uk ] Http://www.fatmans.demon.co.uk/crypt/ ] "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" ] ]-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ]Version: 2.6.3ia ] ]mQCNAjH9j+cAAAEEAMBvREiQR0ot9dFCO0TiSCSunAYLv2g1Bc6I3bz8FzKXNH53 ]6mieJf/W4rD+CxJpT0q9RQaaoRtkHJLwbjfK2il3D7mEahMAyqvF/xRJNqkXfhM3 ]sRJM0Jh43l+W0M5vwokbEbk25/bxWWGspTsLD3YHbzKnG6pOcL5OPIRbv66xAAUR ]tCdQYXVsIEJyYWRsZXkgPHBhdWxAZmF0bWFucy5kZW1vbi5jby51az6JAJUDBRAy ]NwfvNkCBjDT0xHEBATQPA/9TORmN/UjNecj03q4anpvdyCLiez5sKuNbnYK50RiP ]Jj4QpWWvST3smyQ0A86DrZY/re056MXwQmARESx0rFZxdnD0oORICl5r8dJLIy3b ]j8rbA5olXwZwKz73/X5s13v/pvHYX4cIsbVK8NHXqh5llSKt6TBAuGgkIGF29z5k ]C4kAlQMFEDI3B9mdtf/umVkv7QEBcRYD/1FBteLqsUmr81euxqqnnrpLlyHb58B/ ]9sdATuua4uSjX46hXDZ264YozspNrzSB4NEdrmXOWVX3fiE0ga6XkSSkIeF23V90 ]En37Z0BdbFzgF00FRYTFyTq8eezQrdg/+rBPUsZUmG5wpq3e12FKHQsX01i+1mB2 ]YmqqwCV5e95eiQCVAgUQMh8uSb5OPIRbv66xAQEqJwP/fxQyiCasjFcbDpsFfsYp ]put5cCC/9pOx6X3DlbKShPMpUOS+A9HsTEmJQN8Iawv1nSwPdtc2cR/GhW6ilVjW ]LSloGdMVLabm9pGpZZMkRaZlXFUkOv7VhfgsUiL+vIDryBCAwUZCzQiWycjt/cPi ]mUqFH41Z7NkyO8ZFdi5GGX0= ]=CMZA ]-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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Re: Going AP Shit on the Internet
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 01:06 AM 9/22/96 -0700, Dale Thorn wrote: >If you live >in the U.S., that govt. is your agent, carrying out your >representatives' instructions, and paid with your tax dollars. Unless >and until this becomes a literal dictatorship (and there is a valid >argument that it applies even then), you are responsible for whatever >your paid agents do, from the street cop to the top politico. >whether you, I, or Joe Blow is more guilty, for lack of participation or >some other citizen crime, but you can't put all the blame on your hired >agents for their crimes, when you know very well what kinds of things >they do, and you continue to fund them. You have to be considered an >accessory, at least. I hereby dismiss all employees of the federal, state, or local governments who may be working as my employees or agents and specifically disclaim all actions they take on my part. Note, BTW that your argument is the same as saying "If one pays taxes, one is subject to Nurenberg liability for government crimes." Which is therefore an argument in favor of tax evasion. DCF

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Re: Kill 'em and let God sort it out, was Re: The GAK Momentum is Building...
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:04 PM 9/21/96 -0700, Steve Schear wrote: >> jim bell wrote: >>Naturally, you won't even consider the possibility of going outside the >>system to solve a problem. The rest of us notice that there are probably >>thousands of terminally-ill people who would gladly act as a human kamikaze >>and get rid of any judge inclined to impose such a fine, for a payment of 1% >>of this principle amount to a family member or loved one, leaving 99% >>available for the few other judges foolish enough to basically commit >>suicide by taking up a futile gesture. >> > >If AP came to be seen as an acceptable way for business and citizens to >right egregious wrongs it would quickly lead to a 'law of the jungle' >situation, which I think any sane person would reject as the cure being >worse than the disease. Don't assume that means anything definitive, however. _SOME_ sane people are simply WRONG! Indeed, I'm fond of pointing out that 95% of the things people say are wrong about AP are, themselves, wrong. (Even by the standards of people who'd agree with their general conclusion.) Suppose I could convince you that an AP-dominated world would be, in general, far safer, better, more just, than the status quo. At that point, would you STILL say "any sane person would reject" it? Probably not. I suggest, therefore, that your statement above is based on a misunderstanding of AP. Other people, people who have thought about the matter far longer than you, agree with me. Moreover, after discussing AP with as many people as I have, it's quite predictable that a person would come to a conclusion based on a false belief. However, if governemnts (especially ours) continue >to expand their implied authority and greatly diminishing personal >liberties we all took for granted were inaliable human rights (in our own >best interest, of course), a time may come when a bit of rebellion may be >the only viable alternative for self-correction. Here's the big problem: Let's suppose you think like this. "Someday we _may_ have to rebel. Not today." Gradually, over time, the circumstances get worse. However, as surprising as it may seem, we get used to the problems, and morever a new generation of people are born who've never seen freedom. The line we draw in the sand today just appears to get further and further away. We never cross it, and thus we never rebel, no matter how bad the circumstances get. The most realistic position to take, I think, is to conclude that the line in the sand has ALREADY been crossed, long ago, and that it is high time to act. The beauty of AP is that it will allow "little revolutions" to occur daily, until they are no longer needed. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: AP [was: Re: Kiddie porn on the Internet] [NOISE]
by jim bell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 05:32 AM 9/22/96 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote: >In <199609220708.AAA20288(a)dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com>, on 09/22/96 at 12:09 AM, > Bill Stewart <stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com> said: >>If the US _had_ really wanted to assassinate Saddam, they could have >>hired professionals to do the job (like Mossad.) Instead they >>killed 200,000 other Iraqis, including civilians, draftees, and a >>few tens of thousands of real soldiers. > >You need to take into account the politics of the region. With Saddam gone you have >created a power vaccume that Iran would be all to happy to fill. It was for this >reason that durring the Gulf War the US & its allias (European & Arab) did not go to >Bagdad. They mearly wanted to knock Saddam down a notch or two not take him out. You're thinking like a statist. If Saddam's death leaves "a power vacuum," then simply kill the leadership of Iran, and any other nearby state with designs on the middle east. Gee, whats the problem? This "kill the leadership" system gets mighty addictive! Where will it end? Which is why it isn't started in the first place. The people who might start it are the ones with the most to lose if it spreads. That's why Saddam is alive today. Jim Bell jimbell(a)pacifier.com

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Re: Snake-Oil FAQ
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 4:44 PM 9/22/96, Dale Thorn wrote: >The basic outline for any products included (and don't forget, just >getting included is some sort of endorsement, if you know what I mean) >could be a feature/bug listing, using common crypto terminology, and >could be followed by side-by-side argument paragraphs from the author >and from a reputable review panel. > >The usefulness of the list would probably depend on: >1. The participation of all those names people like to name-drop on this > forum. >2. And/or the quality of the list itself if done without (1.) above. > In this latter case, it could still be useful, but the variances in > evaluation owing to personal bias would be difficult to overcome. The Basic Problem (tm) with a "Snake Oil FAQ" is that the very persons most in need of it won't read it. If those who post descriptions of their "Unbreakable Virtual Whammo-Matic Really Complicated Transposition Cipher" have not bothered to read Schneier or other basic texts on ciphers, why would they bother to read a Snake Oil FAQ? This applies to their customers as well. It doesn't take much reading of standard crypto books to learn why historical codes and ciphers (and their reinvented modern variants) are fundamentally weak, and subject to (usually rapid) breaking with high-speed computers. Once this basic point is realized, all else follows. In other words, there is really no meaningful target audience for a Snake Oil FAQ. If it's just a quick effort, fine. But escalating it into a Major Cypherpunks Project seems like wasted effort. Just point people to Schneier's book and suggest they read and absorb the first several chapters. Then, like the infamous fisherman, they'll be equipped to understand why the Whammo-matic Really Complicated Cipher is neither Virtually Unbreakable nor worthy of spending much time analyzing, and why they should stick with modern ciphers and systems which have been subjected to years of review and attempts to break them. --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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