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17 Dec '03

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Re: Bell vs. Woodward--justice?
by Anonymous 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>Leaving aside the problem with a system where a judge can overturn the >decision of a Jury (I have not seen all of the evidence so have no idea >if she is guilty or innocent but if you enter a country you implicitly >agree to abide by their laws and legal system, however what is the point >of having a Jury if the Judge can do this sort of thing?) then the actual >problem is the length of time that Jim is spending in prison and nothing >to do with the Woodward case at all. It just goes to illustrate, once again, >how laws are selectively enforced and procedures slowed in order to punish >people who can not otherwise be punished as much as the administration would >like to. Throwing the woman in jail for eight months without her ever being convicted is itself an injustice. She should have been aquitted because of that bit of bullshit alone. Yes the same goes for anybody else who is punished in any way before they are convicted. That aside, you ask what the point of having a jury is if the judge can overturn a conviction. There's no problem with the judge overturning a conviction if the evidence warrants it, if the trial was a joke, or something along those lines. We don't convict people in this country based on what the public thinks of them, and that includes a jury. If the jury convicts somebody when the evidence doesn't warrant a conviction -- regardless of the reason why they convicted them, which may be as inane as "But he *might* have been gay, and Jesus doesn't like that" -- it is the judge's duty in the interests of justice to overturn the conviction. If the judge is overturning aquittals, then we have problems. And I would suggest we lock and load if the judge had done that and thrown her in prison. As it is, I only suggest that everyone lock and load because they threw her in jail before she was convicted. She hadn't yet had her trial, so she shouldn't have been in jail, period. The same goes for Jim Bell, his "crimes," and his waiting 7 months for sentencing. Lock and load.

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Re: More Crypto Statements
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

What explains this flurry of crypto-statements on the floor of the Senate on Saturday and Sunday? Simple: Our elected representatives had nothing else to do. By late Sunday evening, the vote over fast-track had been postponed ten times as union and corporate lobbyists jockeyed for position with the White House for votes. While smoke was filling the back rooms of the Capitol, members had nothing else to do but twiddle their thumbs. Debate noncontroversial legislation. Recount election battles. And pledge loyalty to strong crypto. Of course increased (or at least more effective) industry lobbying had something to do with the floor statements. These sorts of brief speeches are a sign of a well-honed lobbying campaign. Note, BTW, the tone of the Senate statements. The defeat of Burns' ProCODE bill in the Senate means that crypto-proponents are on the defensive. Murray is forced to say S.909 (McCain-Kerrey) "does not go far enough" in lifting export ctrls -- true, since it also sets up a key escrow infrastructure. There is no pro-crypto bill in the Senate now for crypto-advocates to rally around. (Leahy's is a key escrow wishlist.) Also note that Dreier's statements are significant: "Congress should lift the controls on encryption software" and not move towards mandatory key escrow. He is a senior member of the House Rules committee, which will pass judgement on and reconcile the five versions of SAFE sooner or later. One of those versions is the FBI-friendly one with restrictions on manufacture, distribution, and sale of unapproved crypto products. -Declan At 20:20 -0500 11/10/97, John Young wrote: >Declan, anyone, is this flood of statements due to an >industry campaign, or one by Majortiy Leader Lott, >or Speaker Gingrich, or a combination, or what? > >What's your insider intel, Declan, will these initiatives continue >into the next session or are they just cheap dues paying >for the moment, while getting ready to sellout when the >rain of if-you-knew-what-we've-been-briefed shit showers >down next year?

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Re: Australian sheep [WAS RE: Bell vs. Woodward--justice?]
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

(An interesting essay from an Australian was sent to me via an anonymous remailer...at least he or she claimed to be Australian. As I can only respond to him or her via the list, here's my reply.) At 6:42 PM -0700 11/11/97, Anonymous wrote: >>>>>> "T" == Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> > T> As for Australia, your countrymen acted like sheep in giving up > T> their guns. If they try that kind of shit here in this country, > T> a *lot* of cops are going to get killed. > > T> (Not necessarily by me, though I'll defend my property and my > T> constitutional rights as best I can. But the militia and patriot > T> and anti-New World Order movements are preparing for war.) > >As an Australian I couldn't agree more with your conclusion Tim. >Australians showed a shameful and cowardly disregard for individual >liberty and freedom on the gun issue and a time will come I'm sure ... And let me assure you that I am not insulting all Australians. I call them as I see them, whether it's Americans (the most common target of my analyses), Germans, French, Swedes, etc. ... >sources. We have in doing this showed just how sheep like we are for >instead of taking some responsibility for our own future defence needs >we have placed ourselves at the feet of the USA for our continued >freedom to pass even more restrictive laws on ourselves. We will all >rue the day America loses interest in us and no doubt some of our >ernest friends to our north will at that point suddenly show a very >great interest in this land. Anyone who seriously believes otherwise "Pax Americana" is the name for this trend. America sits astride the world, as the only remaining military superpower, and an economic superpower as well. I say this not to be jingoistic, but as an expression of reality. The former Soviet Union is in disarray, and its submarines and ICBMs are apparently rusting away and will soon be inoperable. This is, in a sense, good news. The United States almost bankrupted itself in the 40-year Cold War. And now, instead of turning swords into plowshares, cutting taxes, and getting on with life, American sends its aircraft carriers to far-off places, acts as the world's policeman, draws lines in the sand and dares Saddam to cross them, threatens trade wars, and browbeats other nations. (I'd gladly settle for a broken up USA, with five or six economic/political regions, each too small to run around the world butting into the affairs of distant nations. The coming chaos may succeed in doing this.) >is a fool. Personally I have laid down a weapons cache that would, at >the hands of our media, make me look like an invading army myself. >Some of my friends have done likewise. I believe it is my right, >indeed my duty to provide for my own defence. In doing so I am now run >the risk of 20 years imprisonment. Of course since I run this risk >(and self defence is no longer a justification for holding a weapon in >this country) I have not limited myself to semi-auto weapons as they >are now as illegal as automatic weapons, grenades, mines etc. In for a >penny in for a pound. One of the first things the invading U.S. forces did in Somalia was to disarm the civilian population. (I am not making this up.) The farmers protested that they would be left defenseless against the nomadic guerillas and looters. Ah, but the benevolent U.S. decided, via consultations with the U.N., that the key to peace lay in disarming those they could disarm. As the U.S. found, those they were unable to disarm kicked their asses all around Mogadishu. Dragging a chopper pilot around town was just the most visible sign. So the U.S. retreated. Is this portrayed as a defeat? Nope. The warmongers talk about how America has "bounced back" from its loss in Viet Nam and has not lost a war since. More reason to invade other nations. Anyway, disarming the civilians is now U.S. policy. Not too surpising that Clinton looks with favor on the recent disarmings in the U.K. and Australia (and with newer restrictions in Canada, too). >regardless. It is our right and duty, as free men and women to be able >to defend ourselves and god help anyone who comes to disarm us. The >ban, if anything has forced true patriots to decide just which side of >the line they stand on and fostered a more extremist attitude towards >those who would stand aside while the people are murdered. We realise >that constitutional protections such as enshrined in your great >Constitution are won only with blood and not with the talk of the >corrupt. Some of us are awaiting the coming tide with relish. > >Good luck and good hunting, Amen. And Australia should not be completely surprised if the U.S. offers to send "peacekeeping troops" to your country to help with the disarmament. The conspiracy theorists who talk about the New World Order and U.N. "Blue Helmets" roaming U.S. streets have it only half right: the other side of the New World Order is having U.S. troops, possibly under U.N. flags (barf), patrolling conquered, er, liberated territories. I don't want to see my fellow countrymen die in foreign wars, but it wouldn't break my heart to see some Aussie sharpshooters taking out foreign invaders. Should this event happen. (Many of us are fighting the New World Order, and I don't personally think there will be Americans sent in large numbers to quell large populations. America likes picking on countries much smaller than itself.) Good luck. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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17 Dec '03

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Re: FRB Crypto Systems
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

:: Anon-To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com John Young wrote: > Federal Register, November 10, 1997 > Excerpt from a Federal Reserve Bank announcement: > > ... the Reserve Banks plan to change their policy > for ownership of the encryption boards used by depository > institutions with dial and multi-drop connections. These > encryption boards are currently purchased and owned by the > depository institutions. With the replacement of the > encryption boards beginning in the second half of 1998 to > enhance the security of the Federal Reserve's communications > network, the Reserve Banks plan to purchase and assume > ownership of these boards. Not that they are preparing to take fascist control of all electronic funds in preparation for the coming Financial Holocaust. Has anyone that you can't look *anywhere* in the government regulatory scheme without seeing signs of preparation for *seizing* control of information, finances and communications? I remember going into a black bar in a very bad neighborhood in Seattle and being befriended by the nicest black man in the whole world. After sharing intimate buddy-buddy details of his life with me he suggested that if I gave him my wallet to hold then I wouldn't have to worry about some of the "bad" black people in the establishment robbing me. I didn't give him my wallet, but I _did_ vote for him. {;>) El !Fool

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UN Conference - Limits on Internet speech [CNN]
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > U.N. CONFERENCE DEBATES LIMITS ON INTERNET SPEECH > > Internet racism graphic November 11, 1997 > Web posted at: 9:14 p.m. EST (0214 GMT) > > GENEVA (AP) -- Concerned at the growing use of the Internet for > racist propaganda, international experts are debating how -- and > whether -- to combat the spread of computerized hate messages. > > Binding global controls on the Internet are unlikely, officials said > Tuesday, since the technology is changing faster than rules can be > made, and because of free speech protection in the United States. > > The United Nations is sponsoring a week-long meeting of human rights > activists, government officials and Internet service providers as > part of efforts to ensure compliance with an international treaty > banning racial discrimination. It ends Friday with a list of > recommendations. > > "There are 148 countries who have accepted this convention and they > are under obligation to enact measures to implement it," said Agha > Shahi of Pakistan, a member of the U.N. Committee on the Elimination > of Racial Discrimination. > > "Are we going to say the Internet should be exempt from any kind of > compliance with the rules of international behavior?" he asked. > > It is widely agreed that the Internet offers an open platform for > racists and white supremacists, although nothing has proved this > leads to a related rise in racist incidents. > > Much of the problem stems from the United States, where groups such > as the Ku Klux Klan, the Aryan Nations and skinheads base their Web > sites. > > Under the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees free speech, these > groups are permitted to post their views on the Internet, which can > be accessed by people in other countries. > > Although European countries like Sweden have moved toward making > Internet service providers responsible for the content they supply, > such restrictions are unlikely in the United States, and hence, > internationally. > > "In our tradition, it is only through the clash of views in vigorous > debate, and not through government censorship, that equality is well > served," Philip Reitinger of the U.S. Department of Justice said at > the U.N. meeting. "That principle -- one which accords freedom of > expression the highest respect -- applies with equal force to the > Internet." > > While the U.S. computer industry is voluntarily working on ways to > ensure that computer smut isn't accessible to minors, Eric Lee, of > the Internet service provider Commercial Internet eXchange, said it > was "not feasible and not desirable" for Internet providers to act > as censors. > > "It's difficult if not impossible to suppress content on the Web > because there are so many ways to evade controls," Lee said. "Which > does not mean that one should not take steps to limit behavior, but > coming up with foolproof controls is virtually impossible." > > Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This > material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or > redistributed.

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Y2K: Canada status?
by Jean-Francois Avon 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Please reply to my personnal address, I am not on CPunks. Is there anybody who knows about the Y2K situation in Canada? Should we infer that the situation will be the same here or were any preparation steps taken by out govt that will postpone our contry's alledged fall by 2 microseconds (time for any major economic catastrophy in the US to reach us here) Ciao jfa "You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against -- then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. Your fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. Once declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted -- and you create a nation of law-breakers---and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system...that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be easier to deal with." Ayn Rand

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U.N. conference on "hate sites" on the Internet
by Declan McCullagh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[I've attached the conference agenda below. --Declan] ************* Experts tell U.N. conference 'hate' sites on Internet may be here to stay Reuters GENEVA (November 11, 1997 2:47 p.m. EST http://www.nando.net) - Internet hate sites, such as one urging "Aryan brothers and sisters ... to combat racially inferior parasites," are unlikely to be stamped out because this would limit freedom of speech, experts said Tuesday. The need to respect free speech, as well as the sheer size of the task, emerged at a United Nations seminar as the two main obstacles to eradicating such material. The issue has become more pressing as the number of online hate sites soars and racism, neo-Nazism and anti-Semitism, find new niches on the Internet, speakers at the meeting said. But there is no easy answer to the question: who decides what is offensive on the Internet? "In Europe, it would be racist to say, 'I don't like Arabs.' In the United States, we can say 'I don't like Arabs, I don't like pink people.' Under freedom of expression, it's not against the law," said Debra Guzman, executive director of the U.S.-based Human Rights Information Network. "You can't ban this in the United States," she told a news conference. One problem is that Internet technology itself cannot distinguish between the offensive and the non-offensive, said Eric Lee, public policy director at the U.S. Commercial Internet Exchange. [...] ************* Dear Madam/Sir, I have the honour to inform you that within the framework of the implementation of the Programme of Action for the Third Decade to Combat Racism and Racial Discrimination, in pursuance of General Assembly resolution 51/81, the High Commissioner for Human Rights will organize a seminar on "The role of Internet with regard to the provisions of the International Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination". The purpose of the Seminar which will take place in Geneva from 10 to 14 November 1997 and bring together experts on the subject matter, representatives of governments, Internet Service Providers, and representatives of non-governmental organizations, is to find ways and means to ensure a responsible use of the Internet in the light of the International Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination. The draft agenda of the meeting reads as follows: (a) Racism and Racial Discrimination on Internet (b) Technical Aspects of screening racist propaganda on Internet: 1. National Measures 2. International Measures (c) Prohibition of racist propaganda on the Internet. Juridical Aspects: 1. National Measures 2. International Measures (d) Elements for an eventual Code of Conduct and good practice for displaying material on Internet (e) Recommendations. /... #012# I am very pleased, on behalf of the Secretary-General, to invite your Organization to send an observer to the seminar. In order that the necessary arrangements concerning conference facilities may be made in advance, I would be grateful to receive his or her name by 30 October 1997 at the latest. Under existing arrangements, your Organization would be expected to bear the costs of its representative. I am attaching to this letter, for your convenience, a briefing note relating to the seminar. Yours sincerely, John Pace Chief Research and Right to Development Branch ______________________________________________________________________ IMPLEMENTATION OF THE PROGRAMME OF ACTION FOR THE THIRD DECADE TO COMBAT RACISM AND RACIAL DISCRIMINATION SEMINAR ON THE ROLE OF INTERNET WITH REGARD TO THE PROVISIONS OF THE INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION ON THE ELIMINATION OF ALL FORMS OF RACIAL DISCRIMINATION Geneva, Palais des Nations 10-14 November 1997 PROVISIONAL AGENDA Monday 10 November Morning 10:00 - 13:00 Opening of the Seminar - Welcome address by High Commissioner for Human Rights - Election of the Bureau (Chairperson, Vice-Chairperson, Rapporteur) - Adoption of the agenda - Organisation of work Afternoon Working session I 15:00 - 18:00 Item I: Racism and Racial Discrimination on Internet - Keynote address by Ms. Debra Guzman, Executive Director The Human Rights Information Network - General discussion - Conclusion #012# Tuesday 11 November Morning Working session II.a 10:00 - 13:00 Item II: Technical Aspects of screening racist propaganda on Internet: National measures - Keynote address by Mr. Timothy L. Jenkins, Chairman of Unlimited Visions - General discussion - Conclusion Afternoon Working session II.b 15:00 - 18:00 Item III: Technical Aspects of screening racist propaganda on Internet: international measures - Keynote address by Mr. Eric Lee, Commercial Internet Exchange - General discussion - Conclusion Wednesday 12 November Morning Working session III.a 10:00 -13:00 Item IV: Prohibition of Racist Propaganda on the Internet: Juridical Aspects, National Measures - Keynote address by an expert of the Department of Justice, USA - General discussion - Conclusion Afternoon Working session III.b 15:00 - 18:00 Item V: Prohibition of Racist Propaganda on the Internet: Juridical Aspects, International Measures - Keynote address by Mr. Agha Shahi, member of the Commitee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination - General discussion - Conclusion #012# Thursday 13 November Morning Working session IV.a 10:00 - 13:00 Item VI: Elements for an eventual Code of Conduct and good practice for displaying material on Internet - Keynotes address by: Ms. Maya Sooka, Association for Progressive Communication, Johannesburg - General Discussion - Conclusion Afternoon Working session IV.b 15:00 - 18:00 Item VI: Elements for an eventual Code of Conduct and good practice for displaying material on Internet - Keynotes address by: Mr. Tony Rutkowsky, former senior ITU executive - General Discussion - Conclusion Friday 14 November Morning Free Time Afternoon 15:00 - 18:00 Conclusions and Recommendations Closing of the Seminar - Statement of the Chairperson - Final statement of the High Commissioner ------

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Hmmm
by wabe 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

So, just as a question, what COULD the FBI do, if it saw a real possibility for organized crime to get out of control if they no longer could do wiretaps? I have a friend in berlin who says the Russian Mob is moving in there. Scary. What should the FBI say? Is there even a Constitutional option? _______________________________________ -wabe

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