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Sources and Sinks
by Tim May 05 Jan '04

05 Jan '04

The jabber about how poor people are actually paying for the successful is beyond belief. All sorts of arguments are being made about how poor people somehow pay for the infrastructure the wealthy exploit. And the chestnut about how tax breaks aid the wealth disproportionately is once again brought out. (Yeah, if Alice was paying $50K in taxes and the taxes are cut to $40K she "benefits more" than Bob the Wino who got no tax benefits because he paid no taxes. Which misses the point about Alice's high taxes in the first place.) This is why the "Tax Freedom Day" approach is more useful. Tax freedom day is of course the day when the average American or Brit or whatever has stopped working for the government and has the rest of his income for himself. For most years, this is estimated to around May-June. That is, for almost half of a year a typical taxpayer is working for the government. Not a perfect measure, as it averages together folks of various tax brackets, including the many in America who pay nothing (but it doesn't assign a negative number to those who receive "net net" money from the government). And it fails to take into account the double taxation which a business owner faces: roughly a 50% tax on his profits, then when the profits are disbursed to the owners of the corporation, another 35-45% tax bite. For a business owner, he is effectively working for the government for the first 70% of every year. Which means only October-December is he working for his own interests. Jabber about how poor people are actually receiving fewer tax benefits than rich people misses the point of who's working for whom. Alice, an engineer or pharmacist or perhaps a small business owner, works between 40% and 70% of her time to pay money into government. Bob, a crack addict collecting "disability" or welfare or other government freebies, works 0% of his time for the government/society. ("Dat not true. I gots to stands in line to get my check increased!") Alice is a source, Bob is a sink. Talk about how Alice gets benefits ignores the fact that she's working for the government for a big chunk of her life. Bob is not. Alice is a slave for the government, and "society," so that Bob can lounge in his mobile home watching ESPN and collecting a monthly check. (I'd like to know why all of the folks here in California who are getting "benefits" and "services" are not at my door on Saturday morning to help me with my yard work. I'd like to know why finding reliable yard workers has become nearly impossible in the past couple of decades. "Will work for food" signs are a fucking joke...try hiring one of those layabouts to actually do some work for food and watch the sneers, or watch them threatening to fake a work injury if a shakedown fee is not given to them. These people should be put in lime pits.) When you hear John Young and Tyler Durden nattering about the "persons of privilege" are reaping the rewards of a benificent government, think about Alice and Bob and ask yourself who'se doing the real work. Ask who're the sources and who're the sinks. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need...and I've got a game to watch on satellite...and where's my check?" --Tim May "The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant." --John Stuart Mill

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Re: Vengeance Libertarianism
by Major Variola (ret) 05 Jan '04

05 Jan '04

At 12:58 PM 1/5/04 -0600, Declan McCullagh wrote: > >With that evidence in hand, the employer calls them up and tells them >to be at work the next day -- or be fired. If I were the employer, I >wouldn't even give them that second chance. Motivation might be loss of training or worry over lawsuit? The state of CA was running adverts last year reminding the volk that its a felony to fake disability for worker's comp. My wife's a shrink, she has had occasion to evaluate people for mental distress (for worker's comp) caused by work. Sometimes they piggyback pre-existing problems onto their claims, sometimes people or conditions at work would screw with anyone's head. Sometimes they regard her (the examining shrink) as an adversary, sometimes a friend. I imagine same goes for visceral physicians too -though pain is as easy to fake as anguish. The technical term for faking it is 'malingering'. Some of the questions in standard written exams try to detect this, as well as the opposite, concealment. (There are times when you want to conceal a condition that you are aware of.)

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CNN "expert" confuses stenography with steganography
by Major Variola (ret.) 05 Jan '04

05 Jan '04

Just heard a CNN "expert" confuse stenography with steganography. And he still thinks Jihad, Inc websites use the latter. Doofus.

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copy protected "CD" lawsuit
by Major Variola (ret.) 05 Jan '04

05 Jan '04

LONDON -- A European consumer watchdog body is suing the world's largest music companies for selling copy-protected compact discs that won't play on car stereos and computers, the Belgium-based organization said on Monday. The group, known in Dutch as Test-Aankoop and in French as Test-Achats, said it has received more than 200 complaints from consumers who objected to a technology that prevents consumers from making a back-up version on a blank disc and limits playback on certain devices. http://wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,61791,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_6 .... Note that we suggested a lawsuit based on fraud rather than denial of traditional use, some time ago. Actually, the case for denial of traditional use is lame, in our opinion. (Surely a vendor can sell whatever they want. Only its fraud to use the CD logo, since the disks don't play on to-spec players. Similar to software: you should be able to lock it in any way you can, but you can't say "runs on WinBlah" if it only runs on a subset.) Should be interesting.

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Vengeance Libertarianism
by Tim May 05 Jan '04

05 Jan '04

On Dec 30, 2003, at 10:01 PM, jal(a)jal.org wrote: >> (This space reserved for former Marxist and now neocon standard-bearer >> James Donald to foam that I am a Saddam lover and a supporter of >> Chomsky.) > > I will say that I was a a former marxist. This is not to bow at the > feet > of some better method, nor to trivialize the past. > > My awakening, as it were, actually happened here, for better or worse. > Tim, Hal, Lucky, Uni and to some extent Detweiler all helped > form my view. More than a few others. This was back in '93, mostly. At > least, the founding, for me was then. I know some things happened later > (I saw Uni present his Coke Presentation in 2002 for the first time), > and I became concerned with business, or at least companies that wanted > cash, and to be a business later. > I never went through a Marxist phase, never even came close. This despite entering college in 1970, this despite going to a school where the dominant paradigm was leftist (UC Santa Barbara). I occasionally wonder what my perspective might be had I ever held leftist, collectivist thoughts. Oh well, I'll never know. Thirty years ago I _was_ more charitable about the various groups which claim to have been aggrieved, and I dutifully referred to negroes as "blacks," argued earnestly with doubting leftists about the importance of the profit motive, cited semi-leftists who had reasonable things to say about capitalism and liberty and the Constitution. But over the years, as I have seen a huge chunk of money taken from me at gunpoint and given to welfare skanks, inner city negro mutants, gay activist buttfucker San Francisco queer groups, foreign nations with dictators like Hussein (both of them), Mubarek, Amin, Meir, Rabin, and a hundred others, and as education has declined while the pigeons demand more handouts...I have become what I call a "vengeance libertarian." While certain theoreticians of 30 years argued for silly ideas about how how it is "immoral" to land on another's balcony while falling from a building, because the property rights had not been negotiated, and thus argued that even self-defense is fraught with moral problems, another camp of us were developing the idea that vengeance is good, that crypto anarchy will not only let some of us "withdraw from the system," a la Galt's Gulch, but also it will let us execute justice on those who stole from us. For every negro welfare momma who took money for the past number of years, tell her to pay it all back, with compounded interest, or face time in a labor camp to repay what she stole. And if she cannot, or will not, which is ovewhelmingly likely, harvest her organs (if any takers can be found) and send the leftovers up the smokestacks. Ditto for the queers who have collected "public health" funds to pay for their sodomy. (I have no issue with their choices of partners, except that the diseases they contract via their habits, and their inability to work, is their problem, not mine. And not any corporations, except by the choice of that corporation.) Vengeance libertarianism is the rational kind. It will result in 20-40 million of the leeches, the bums, the minority grifters, the so-called aggrieved, the winos, the addicts, all being sent up the chimneys. Hitler had only minor reasons to go after the Jews (many of them had manipulated the economy to favor Jews while also preaching a "no defense" loser strategy to their untermenschen), we have much more reason to go after the tens of millions of underpeople who have been using their thugs in government to steal from us. We have much more justification today to liquidate the parsites than Hitler ever had. As for government, I estimate that 99% of those in Congress and government agencies in the past 40 years have earned killing. Of current Congressvarmints, only two seem to be not guilty. Of low-level employees, a bunch are just willing dweebs, and may be able to work off their debts in a labor camp for a decade or two. But probably the cleaner solution is just to do a thermonuclear cauterization of the region surrounding Washington and start fresh from there with a very limited government that honors the Constitution instead of catering to negroes and queers and welfare addicts. Crypto anarchy will make delivering justice to tens of millions a reality. The world will learn a lesson when we burn off these criminals. --Tim May "Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice."--Barry Goldwater

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Re: Vengeance Libertarianism
by Freematt357＠aol.com 05 Jan '04

05 Jan '04

In a message dated 12/31/2003 4:44:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, jya(a)pipeline.com writes: > Nowhere in Tim's spew is the recognition that the largest > beneficiaries of government favoritism are corporations and > wealthy individuals like himself Government favoritism? It sounds like you don't believe a raising tide lifts all ships. Tim is entitled to keep the wealth he has earned, when it's taken its called stealing. > The rich fear the poor, and rightly so, for they know who pays > for their perks. What commie nonsense. > Wasn't it a leftist who coined Goldwater's most memorable > phrase? > The libertarian Karl Hess wrote most of Goldwater's speeches, but the quote you mention was one popularized by Ben Franklin who in turn was using an unattributed Latin quote. Regards, Matt Gaylor-

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Cypherpunks List Info
by cpunk＠lne.com 04 Jan '04

04 Jan '04

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Re: Sources and Sinks
by Nostradumbass＠SAFe-mail.net 04 Jan '04

04 Jan '04

From: bgt <bgt(a)chrootlabs.org> > On Sat, 2004-01-03 at 07:09, Michael Kalus wrote: > > > > Where there is no governmental police force, their is demand for > > > private enforcement. And you know what? They regularly do their jobs > > > better than the police. > > > > Of course there is no oversight body, so if they use "excessive force" > > well, It's all part of doing business and after all they didn't smash > > YOUR skull so what do you care, right? > > The only necessary "oversight body" is the courts. Both public and > private police (should) operate under the Rule of Law just like everyone > else. As with the public police, if private police have public > perception problems related to excessive force, abuse of power, or > whatever, they may opt to use a third-party interest to do > "self-policing" by fining, firing, etc (much like pro sports > organizations do... contractually). This is strictly a business > management decision however, the only "legal" oversight should be > the court. Police (public or private) should be judged and punished > (in the legal sense) in the same way any other citizen is. http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm Seton Hall Constitutional L.J. 2001, 685 ARE COPS CONSTITUTIONAL? Roger Roots* ABSTRACT Police work is often lionized by jurists and scholars who claim to employ "textualist" and "originalist" methods of constitutional interpretation. Yet professional police were unknown to the United States in 1789, and first appeared in America almost a half-century after the Constitution's ratification. The Framers contemplated law enforcement as the duty of mostly private citizens, along with a few constables and sheriffs who could be called upon when necessary. This article marshals extensive historical and legal evidence to show that modern policing is in many ways inconsistent with the original intent of America's founding documents. The author argues that the growth of modern policing has substantially empowered the state in a way the Framers would regard as abhorrent to their foremost principles.

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Alt.cypherpunks will be where I do most of my posting
by Tim May 03 Jan '04

03 Jan '04

On Jan 2, 2004, at 1:03 PM, someone wrote: > On Fri, 2004-01-02 at 13:18, Tim May wrote: >> Second of the items lne.com never sent to the list (that I have seen, >> 9-10 hours later). > > I saw both articles, both the originals and the reposts, on the LNE > feed. I didn't, however, get the original of either on the pro-ns feed, > but I saw the reposts on pro-ns. > > I subscribed to pro-ns after Eric M's announcement, but it seems to > miss > a lot of articles that I get from LNE. Still searching for a reliable > feed which cuts out the Australian Jackass and other noise posts. Several operators of Cypherpunks nodes have gotten tired of the topic or the running of nodes and have moved on to other things. Even those still running nodes rarely have anything to post themselves. Those remaining on the remaining nodes, or at least the ones posting, are mainly eurotrash lefties and American collectivists who just don't get it. As none of the alternatives to lne.com are what I'm looking for in a node, I expect to do most of my future posting to alt.cypherpunks. This newsgroup has been in existence for a bunch of years and periodically gets interesting threads. A few sock puppets have been spamming it, but filters are readily available to screen out the crud. The advantage of a newsgroup is that all the distribution and propagation issues are handled more or less automagically, The disadvantages are well-known, but are not much worse than with some of today's nodes (subject to long delays, dropped articles, etc.). Another advantage is that the address will be more or less known to anyone, at all times. Also, no "friendly chats" by Feebs with the operators of a site. And virtually no chance of shutting down a newsgroup. --Tim May

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RE: So many statists...uh, who gives a crap?
by Tyler Durden 03 Jan '04

03 Jan '04

Tim May wrote... "I assume they figured that since they were using PGP to communicate with their fellow anti-capitalists, that crypto must be cool" Here's the question Tyler Durden has for you. Which is more important...annhiliation of the state, or getting a bunch of list subscribers to agree that annhiation of the state is a good thing? You yourself have claimed to be something of a "techno determinist". In other words, you've made a good case that Strong crypto will eventually lead to collapse of the state...people's BELIEF about the implications of strong crypto are largely irrelevant. "Eurotrash", "New York Collectivists" and so on should be given nice, big fat pat on the backs, so long as this will encourage proliferation of strong crypto. Who gives a crap what people BELIEVE? In fact, I'd argue that, if your beliefs prove to be correct, then "making people see the implications of strong crypto" is ultimately probably a bad thing...not everyone wants to wreck the state. Some people WANT to be able to boss others around (or at least want someone else to be doing this). Hell, probably most human beings in 2003 are in this category. -TD Me? I like the Protestant reformation analogy: I'm not convinced strong crypto will necessarily lead to destruction of the state, just like the reformation didn't lead to destruction of the Catholic church. However, in the long run, whatever emerges has got to be better than what we've got today. >From: Tim May <timcmay(a)got.net> >To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com >Subject: So many statists >Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 16:06:35 -0800 > >On Jan 3, 2004, at 3:01 PM, bgt wrote: >> >>(Jeez, I just recently got back onto this list after a several-year >>hiatus. How the hell did so many statists ever get the idea that >>ubiquitous cryptography would ever further their goals? Or are they >>just here to distract us with statism vs liberty type political >>debates so we can't get any real work done??) >> > >Most of those now posting (and maybe most of those subscribed, but I am >only speculating) are various eurotrash lefties and anti-globalist >activists who decided that "crypto is cool" after their anti-corporate, >anti-choice rallies in Seattle, Milano, and other cities shut down by the >Yippie marches and barricades. I assume they figured that since they were >using PGP to communicate with their fellow anti-capitalists, that crypto >must be cool (I'm not sure if they favor the negro term, "bad," or the >traditional term, "good," so I'll use the term of my generation, "cool.") > >Are they confused? Yep. > >Welcome to the Gen X and Gen Y (and soon) the Gen Z world. Crypto be bad, >dog! This nigga be bouncin'! > >I'm actually glad to see that Cypherpunks nodes are winding down, that we >no longer have monthly meetings, and that the Movement is ending. Better >that than to see it hijacked by the eurotrash lefties, New York >collectivists, and anti-globalist warriors against free trade. > > >--Tim May, Corralitos, California >Quote of the Month: "It is said that there are no atheists in foxholes; >perhaps there are no true libertarians in times of terrorist attacks." >--Cathy Young, "Reason Magazine," both enemies of liberty. _________________________________________________________________ Check your PC for viruses with the FREE McAfee online computer scan. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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