- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

School of the future
by Tyler Durden 03 Jan '04

03 Jan '04

Tim May wrote... "Put a partition down the middle of a school building. One side is "Blue," the other side is "Red." " Shit. This sounds a lot like my "school of the future" idea. Basically, in the inner cities the armories are converted into "schools", with a giant partition in the middle. On one side are self-learning stations and a small number of instructors. Kids can choose to go to this side of the partition whenever they want, or never. (BUT school is mandatory from 12 to 22, and big Soylent Green-type scoops scoop up the students every morning and dump them into the school.) The other side of the partition is basically a giant gymnasium. Guards with watercannon are stationed in the balcony to break up fights. At graduation, there's a trap door on the gymnasium side, that opens onto a slide leading directly to Rikers. In the extended version, the "schools" are located out in a gulag, and students live there from ages 10 to 24. There are two jobs in the schools, one is breaking rocks, which are imported from other schools, the other is making rocks in concrete molds, which are exported. Classrooms consist of a teacher behind a plexiglass wall, giving lessons over a loudspeaker that's cranked far higher than any kid could scream or yell. Thus, classroom noise is basically eliminated as a practical concern (the teacher might also have access to watercannon behind the plexiglass wall). As for teachers, the source is clear: those that fail to graduate must teach for a period of 10 to 15 years. -TD >From: Tim May <timcmay(a)got.net> >To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com >Subject: Re: Education Be For Whitey >Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:34:13 -0800 > >On Jan 3, 2004, at 9:23 AM, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > >>At 10:41 PM 1/2/04 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: >>>And until the Liberatarian utopia you speak of comes to pass, >> >>One could close all public schools and voucher tomorrow. > >I came up with a plan which is workable immediately and which does not >require substantive changes: > >Put a partition down the middle of a school building. One side is "Blue," >the other side is "Red." > >Blue and Red have different academic orientations, different goals. What >the goals are and how they are set might arise in different ways, e.g., by >a vote of parents, or the backgrounds of the teachers in each, and so on. >Not so important. What is important is what follows. > > >As the Blue and Red sides evolve, with perhaps one focusing on academic >excellence and the other on "social skills," parents could move their >children between the sides (say, on a semester by semester basis, to reduce >thrashing). As the sizes of the Blue and Red sizes change, the partition >would be moved. > > >This gives "policy choice" within a particular school building, which is a >lot less expensive than busing students long distances to get to "magnet" >schools (science, performing arts, crack dealing, etc.). > > >--Tim May >"They played all kinds of games, kept the House in session all night, and >it was a very complicated bill. Maybe a handful of staffers actually read >it, but the bill definitely was not available to members before the vote." >--Rep. Ron Paul, TX, on how few Congresscritters saw the USA-PATRIOT Bill >before voting overwhelmingly to impose a police state _________________________________________________________________ Take advantage of our limited-time introductory offer for dial-up Internet access. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

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Re: Education Be For Whitey
by Major Variola (ret) 03 Jan '04

03 Jan '04

At 10:41 PM 1/2/04 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: >And until the Liberatarian utopia you speak of comes to pass, One could close all public schools and voucher tomorrow. >I still have >the naivety to attempt discussing what kind of system (and realistically >reachable from today's world) might actually lift as many blacks and white >trailer trash out of their ghettos (in whatever form) and back into the >workforce... Simple. Take the infants and put them with parents who subscribe to a culture that values education and work. Then even govt schools won't damage them enought to crush them.

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If you drive, you're a slave (Re: Sources and Sinks)
by Major Variola (ret) 03 Jan '04

03 Jan '04

At 08:09 AM 1/3/04 -0500, Michael Kalus wrote: >Yes, the way this usually works is that the government builds the road, >then sells it to a private company for some money and then the upkeep >is handled by the company. > >It is rather seldom that someone builds a road for a business venture. Come visit SoCal some time. I'll show you some roads built as investments. Many of them. Sometimes, if they fail as investments ("hey, we're losing money, lets raise tolls"), the investors will sell to the govt ---the opposite of your assertion. But it shouldn't matter to a socialist like you: if I've driven on a taxpayer road, I'm therefore a slave to anyone's (or everyone's) 's need. Anyone who can convince a politicowhore to give them a slice, that is.

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Re: DoS-ing fatherland goons
by Major Variola (ret) 03 Jan '04

03 Jan '04

At 11:01 AM 1/3/04 +0100, privacy.at Anonymous Remailer wrote: >- Orchestrated telephone conversations using codewords ("thw worm will meet the apple on monday") > >- Ordering tens of almanacs, etc. WiFi-injected encrypted messages to select TLDs on the List (and beyond --Indonesia suffices). Got Chatter?

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Re: Education Be For Whitey
by Tyler Durden 02 Jan '04

02 Jan '04

Ah. Well, again no argument here. As for Asians in America, let's just say I can be considered an expert on that subject. No doubt the difference in success rate between Asians (and not just Asian Americans, but fresh-off-the-boat Chinese or Vietnamese) and blacks has become conspicuous in recent years, and I agree says a lot about what ISN'T being done, or taken advantage of in the US by some groups. And until the Liberatarian utopia you speak of comes to pass, I still have the naivety to attempt discussing what kind of system (and realistically reachable from today's world) might actually lift as many blacks and white trailer trash out of their ghettos (in whatever form) and back into the workforce... I'd argue that this isn't statist per se, as the state will continue to exist for at least a little while longer. Of course, it might be argued that any attempt at reforming the state is inherently statist, but I'm not convinced that a cataclysmic meltdown is necessary. It seems to me only reasonable to attempt to make things better, while the inevitable unfolds, if it will. Which brings me to a sideswipe at the vehement anti-statists on the board...if something like crypto-anarchy is ultimately inevitable, then why bother "outing" the statists? Instead, to further the anti-state goals, it might actually be far more expedient to encourage said statists in their use and proliferation of strong crypto, thereby speeding the inevitable through the very same vectors that seek to delay it. Meanwhile, why not at least try to match the social 1st and 2nd derivatives so to as minimize the bloodbath that could occur if things unfolded badly? Call this back-handed optimism if you will. -TD >From: "Major Variola (ret)" <mv(a)cdc.gov> >To: "cypherpunks(a)lne.com" <cypherpunks(a)lne.com> >Subject: Re: Education Be For Whitey >Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 17:07:52 -0800 > >At 04:58 PM 1/2/04 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > >Nah nah Variola...I don't think you're getting me here. Or maybe you >are... > >We're not talking about the same thing. I'm talking about the >importance >of culture in valuing education, and how important education (aka >personal capitalism) >is. > >You're talking about different things -schools not removing disruptives, >and >differences in this policy in poor districts. > > >Now if you're saying that public schools shouldn't even >exist...well...OK, > >whatever. > >I don't know where you got that from, unless you're simply applying >libertarian >ideals (albeit a reasonable extrapolation for me). I would destroy >publicly administered >schools tomorrow, and put the money into competitive private schools, >aka >"vouchers". > >In the long term libertarian utopia, govt isn't involved in funding >(even lower) education of course, but I would put that last on my list >of reforms, and note >that eventually education can be funded in other ways. > >In the short term, no govt employee should teach; a >few govt accountants can write the vouchers. They shouldn't teach >because of >1. conflict of interest (in teaching history, civics) >2. govt shouldn't be in the business of running schools, even if >taxpayers continue to >fund it >3. govt (and uncompetitive school bureaucracy) is inefficient whatever >it does >4. govt curricula are swayed by politics, whereas with vouchers you can >decide how you want Columbus et al. portrayed. (This distinct from 1.) >5. 1st amendment conflicts (ie compelled speech, compelled reading) > >Obviously religious curricula cannot be payed for by vouchers. > >And practically, the state would have to assure that vouchers paid >are getting something for their money, esp. for home-schoolers, who >should get voucher $ too. That doesn't mean a fixed curricula, just >that you are literate and numerate by a reasonable age. _________________________________________________________________ Get reliable dial-up Internet access now with our limited-time introductory offer. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

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Re: Sources and Sinks
by Major Variola (ret) 02 Jan '04

02 Jan '04

At 08:07 AM 1/2/04 -0500, Michael Kalus wrote: > >And how much money does she get back by services? Say: >Homelandsecurity? Put the crack pipe down, Michael. Colonial empires need fatherland security when the conquered start sending feedback. Moral states bordered by Mexico, Canada and oceans don't even need a standing army a tenth of the size of the US's at any point in the last 100 years. And strict libertarians do accept taxation for police & defense, little else. Not progressively increasing taxes, not punitive taxes, but the (only) legit function of government is protecting against coercion (incl. fraud & pollution). Some (currently small) fraction of police work / law actually does this.

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Re: Education Be For Whitey
by Major Variola (ret) 02 Jan '04

02 Jan '04

At 04:58 PM 1/2/04 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: >Nah nah Variola...I don't think you're getting me here. Or maybe you are... We're not talking about the same thing. I'm talking about the importance of culture in valuing education, and how important education (aka personal capitalism) is. You're talking about different things -schools not removing disruptives, and differences in this policy in poor districts. >Now if you're saying that public schools shouldn't even exist...well...OK, >whatever. I don't know where you got that from, unless you're simply applying libertarian ideals (albeit a reasonable extrapolation for me). I would destroy publicly administered schools tomorrow, and put the money into competitive private schools, aka "vouchers". In the long term libertarian utopia, govt isn't involved in funding (even lower) education of course, but I would put that last on my list of reforms, and note that eventually education can be funded in other ways. In the short term, no govt employee should teach; a few govt accountants can write the vouchers. They shouldn't teach because of 1. conflict of interest (in teaching history, civics) 2. govt shouldn't be in the business of running schools, even if taxpayers continue to fund it 3. govt (and uncompetitive school bureaucracy) is inefficient whatever it does 4. govt curricula are swayed by politics, whereas with vouchers you can decide how you want Columbus et al. portrayed. (This distinct from 1.) 5. 1st amendment conflicts (ie compelled speech, compelled reading) Obviously religious curricula cannot be payed for by vouchers. And practically, the state would have to assure that vouchers paid are getting something for their money, esp. for home-schoolers, who should get voucher $ too. That doesn't mean a fixed curricula, just that you are literate and numerate by a reasonable age.

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Education Be For Whitey
by Tyler Durden 02 Jan '04

02 Jan '04

Nah nah Variola...I don't think you're getting me here. Or maybe you are... The problem with inner city school systems where there are large numbers of african american students are, first of all, with notable exceptions (ie, some areas around Atlanta, St Albans Queens, etc...) crime rates are high, and African American students, on average, seem to be 'problems' more than Asians or Jewish kids (certainly), and probably more than whites. The next problem, and here is where the notion of "storage" comes in, is that administrators in those districts do practically ZERO to keep disruptive, dangerous students out of the classrooms. They also seem to feel that if reasonable standards of behavior were applied throughout these districts, "all the bad kids would end up on the streets", which is true. Meanwhile, good black students must therefore tolerate high numbers of disruptive, dangerous, and armed delinquents in the schools, and so classes begin to turn into baby-sitting sessions. All of this pretty much comes from tolerating bad behavior, because "they" can't help themselves. What I'm saying is that, as long as there are public schools (and I still think public schooling could be a good idea, albeit in a highly modified form), they need to be completely color blind in the standards, and damn the consequences to society at large. What they'll find is that a suprising number of African Americans will rise to the challenge, and do as well in college as other ethnic groups. Now if you're saying that public schools shouldn't even exist...well...OK, whatever. But as long as they DO exist, its best we run them in a way where they are what they are supposed to be. And if they're supposed to be storage facilities, then put gaurds and watercannon into armories and send the Scoops around to collect up the "students" off the streets every morning. -TD >From: "Major Variola (ret)" <mv(a)cdc.gov> >To: "cypherpunks(a)lne.com" <cypherpunks(a)lne.com> >Subject: RE: Quantum Loop Gravity Be For Whitey >Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 08:34:03 -0800 > >At 11:51 AM 1/1/04 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: > >"Stay In School!" > > > >In other words, schools keep the crime rates down, as is a well-known > >statistic. They are basically storage facilities. For real schools we >white > >folks with $$$ can move out to the suburbs or send our kids to private > >school. > >Right. And the value of an uneducated result of an unaborted fuck 18 >years ago >is so useful that schooling is unnecessary, just part of the Man (tm) >keeping the People (tm) down. >Ayup. > >Plenty of grubs to be dug if that's what you prefer. > >The rest of us prefer personal capitalism, ie investment, ie education. > >There's a reason the Jews and Asians (etc) suceed and other --often more >fluent-- cultures don't, and it has to do with the value some cultures >put on education. > >The truth will set you free, or not. Your choice. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads? Compare online deals from your local high-speed providers now. https://broadband.msn.com

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Humor: The day is coming...
by Nostradumbass＠SAFe-mail.net 02 Jan '04

02 Jan '04

Operator: "Thank you for calling Pizza Hut. May I have your..." Customer: "Hi, I'd like to order." Operator: "May I have your NIDN first, sir?" Customer: "My National ID Number, yeah, hold on, eh, it's 6102049998-45-54610." Operator: "Thank you, Mr. Sheehan. I see you live at 1742 Meadowland Drive, and the phone number's 494-2366. Your office number over at Lincoln Insurance is 745-2302 and your cell number's 266-2566. Which number are you calling from, sir?" Customer: "Huh? I'm at home. Where d'ya get all this information?" Operator: "We're wired into the system, sir." Customer: (Sighs) "Oh, well, I'd like to order a couple of your All-Meat Special pizzas..." Operator: "I don't think that's a good idea, sir." Customer: "Whaddya mean?" Operator: "Sir, your medical records indicate that you've got very high blood pressure and extremely high cholesterol. Your National Health Care provider won't allow such an unhealthy choice." Customer: "Damn. What do you recommend, then?" Operator: "You might try our low-fat Soybean Yogurt Pizza. I'm sure you'll like it" Customer: "What makes you think I'd like something like that?" Operator: "Well, you checked out 'Gourmet Soybean Recipes' from your local library last week, sir. That's why I made the suggestion." Customer: "All right, all right. Give me two family sized ones, then. What's the damage?" Operator: "That should be plenty for you, your wife and your four kids, sir. The 'damage,' as you put it, heh, heh, comes $49.99." Customer: "Lemme give you my credit card number." Operator: "I'm sorry sir, but I'm afraid you'll have to pay in cash. Your credit card balance is over its limit." Customer: "I'll run over to the ATM and get some cash before your driver gets here." Operator: "That won't work either, sir. Your checking account's overdrawn." Customer: "Never mind. Just send the pizzas. I'll have the cash ready. How long will it take?" Operator: "We're running a little behind, sir. It'll be about 45 minutes, sir. If you're in a hurry you might want to pick 'em up while you're out getting the cash, but carrying pizzas on a motorcycle can be a little awkward." Customer: "How the hell do you know I'm riding a bike?" Operator: "It says here you're in arrears on your car payments, so your car got repo'ed. But your Harley's paid up, so I just assumed that you'd be using it." Customer: "@#%/$@&?#!&?#!" Operator: "I'd advise watching your language, sir. You've already got a July 2006 conviction for cussing out a cop." Customer: (Speechless) Operator: "Will there be anything else, sir?" Customer: "No, nothing. oh, yeah, don't forget the two free liters of Coke your ad says I get with the pizzas." Operator: "I'm sorry sir, but our ad's exclusionary clause prevents us from offering free soda to diabetics.

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Re: [camram-spam] Re: Microsoft publicly announces Penny Black PoW postage project
by Scott Nelson 02 Jan '04

02 Jan '04

At 01:43 PM 12/29/03 -0500, Eric S. Johansson wrote: >Bill Stewart wrote: > >> At 09:37 PM 12/26/2003 -0500, Adam Back wrote: >> >>> The 2nd memory [3] bound paper (by Dwork, Goldber and Naor) finds a >>> flaw in in the first memory-bound function paper (by Adabi, Burrows, >>> Manasse, and Wobber) which admits a time-space trade-off, proposes an >>> improved memory-bound function and also in the conclusion suggests >>> that memory bound functions may be more vulnerable to hardware attack >>> than computationally bound functions. Their argument on that latter >>> point is that the hardware attack is an economic attack and it may be >>> that memory-bound functions are more vulnerable to hardware attack >>> because you could in their view build cheaper hardware more [....] >> >> >> Once nice thing about memory-bound functions is that, >> while spammers could build custom hardware farms in Florida or China, >> a large amount of spam is delivered by hijacked PCs or abused >> relays/proxies, >> which run on standard PC hardware, not custom, so it'll still be slow. The Microsoft Penny Black system (not to be confused with the IBM Penny Black paper) is supposedly limited by memory /speed/ not memory size. The only nice thing about that is that memory speed doesn't vary as much between machines. About 5 to 1 vs. 100 to 1. > >do the math. > >d*b >--- > s > >where: d = stamp delay in seconds > s = spam size in bytes > b = bandwidth in bytes per second > I don't understand this equation at all. It's the rate limiting factor that counts, not a combination of stamp speed + bandwidth. Assuming 128Kbps up, without a stamp it takes about .6 seconds to send a typical 10K spam. If it takes 15 seconds to generate the stamp, then it will take 15 seconds to send a stamped spam. It won't even take 15.6 seconds, because the calculation can be done in parallel with the sending. >assuming unlimited bandwidth, if a stamp spammer compromises roughly the >same number of PCs as were compromised during the last worm attack >(350,000) at 15 seconds per stamp, you end up with 1.4 million stamps >per minute or 2 billion stamps per day. When you compare that to the >amount of spam generated per day (high hundred billion to low trillion), > Not according to the best estimates I have. The average email address receives 20-30 spams a day (almost twice what it was last year) and there are only 200-400 million email addresses, which works out to less than 10 billion spams per day. But there's a much easier way to do the math. If 1% of the machines on the internet are compromised, and a stamp takes 15 seconds to generate, then spammers can send 50-60 spams to each person. (86400 seconds per day / 15 seconds per stamp * 1% of everybody = 57.6) You can reduce that by factoring in the average amount of time that a compromised machine is on per day. I fully expect that stamps will rise in "price" to several minutes, if camram actually gets any traction. >they are still a few machine short of what is necessary to totally >render stamps useless. Yes, maybe one spammer could muster a few >machines to be a nuisance but that's the extent of it. > >When dealing with hardware acceleration, it becomes a hardware war. If >they can make a custom hardware, Taiwan can make us USB stamp >generators, postage goes to a period of rapid inflation, and the world >goes back to where was before with no advantage to spammer's. > Custom hardware? I can buy a network ready PC at Fry's for $199. If it takes that machine 30 seconds to generate a stamp, and I leave it running 24/7, and replace it after 5 months, then the cost of a hashstamp is still less than 1/500 of a snail-mail stamp. Granted it's a significant increase in costs over current email, and therefore potentially a vast improvement, but it's still not expensive. Scott Nelson <scott(a)spamwolf.com> --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo(a)metzdowd.com

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