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CDR: Re: would it be so much to ask..
by Craig Brozefsky 23 Sep '00

23 Sep '00

Jim Choate <ravage(a)einstein.ssz.com> writes: > On 21 Sep 2000, Craig Brozefsky wrote: > > > Considering the current situation, and the contant referrals to it as > > Capitalism, I wonder how useful this definition really is. > > Who refers to capitalism as socialism? If they equate these two polar > concepts then this indicates the speaker doesn't have a clue. Well, petro attempted to define socialism as: "Socialism *always* means that the same people in a society who control the use of force also have control over the economic structure." My comment was directed at the ambiguity of this definition. For most of human history, those who controlled the use of force had control over the economic structure. The control was excercised thru various social institutions ranging from direct theft, to fuedal landholdings, to centralized beurocracies, to corporations and nation-states. Today our economic structure is dominated by corporation, global capital, and the fading nation-state. These same institutions which structure our economy also control the use of force, and/or are dependent upon it. The notion of private property is maintained under threat of force. Nation states enforce, or don't enforce, capital controls, trade regulations, and the various other economic policies which shape our economic structure with the threat of force as well. People call this Capitalism. It would seem that the current situation fits petro's definition of Socialism. So, as I said before, petro's definition doesn't seem very useful since it fails to distinguish two different types of political-economic arrangements. But perhaps petro was just advancing that as a cocktail-party quip, and not as a useful definition of socialism. That's ok. I also don't think capitalism and socialism are polar opposites, but perhaps that's for another discussion. Ideologically they are set up as polar opposites, but structurally they are not. In fact any feasible socialism will incorporate many of the features we associate with capitalism including competition, markets, distributed decision-making, and globalized production. Just as any existing capitalism today contains elements of socialism. This is not too imply the two are interchangeable. -- Craig Brozefsky <craig(a)red-bean.com> it's alright 'cos the historical pattern has shown / how the economical cycle tends to revolve / in a round of decades three stages stand out in a loop / a slump and war then peel back to square one and back for more -- Stereolab "Ping Pong"

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CDR: Re: would it be so much to ask..
by Reese 23 Sep '00

23 Sep '00

At 07:18 AM 22/09/00 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > >On 21 Sep 2000, Craig Brozefsky wrote: > >> Considering the current situation, and the contant referrals to it as >> Capitalism, I wonder how useful this definition really is. > >Who refers to capitalism as socialism? If they equate these two polar >concepts then this indicates the speaker doesn't have a clue. Learn to read. Craig Brozefsky MayOrMayNot be full of it, but you've just castigated him for something he _did not_ say. Sometimes, I wonder why I bother.

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CDR: Are you successful?
by Summit Marketing Group 23 Sep '00

23 Sep '00

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Re: -C-P- Re: CDR: Re: would it be so much to ask..
by Bill Stewart 23 Sep '00

23 Sep '00

If you put the tag at the end of the line, not the beginning, it doesn't break sorting - all the articles of a given thread stay together. One difference between what you do and what some other mailing lists do is that cypherpunks uses multiple list servers, and yours munges the Subject: lines while the others don't. Most mailing lists that label their traffic use just one server; if they're using multiple servers, they're administered identically, so you don't have a mixture of munged and undamaged topics. At 05:51 PM 9/19/00 -0500, you wrote: > >On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Tim May wrote: > >> >I suppose you know why we don´t have that (the remailing issue). But >> >I kinda have another idea. Just start every subject line with eg >> >-C-P- like I did now, then it would be really easy to filter all the >> >mail. > >> Nitwit, this idea has been proposed many times. Choate even does >> this, unfortunately, to all traffic flowing through his node. > >No, I don't do this. I do put a tag in the title for traffic analysis and >easy visual identification. Despite your bitching about it, about 70% of >the mailing lists I'm aware of do the same thing. The only distinction is >they put []'s around it. I could put []'s if that'll make you happy. The >'CDR' itself stays. Very handy for quick visual scanning. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart(a)pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

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MIT Declines to review Carnivore
by Riad S. Wahby 23 Sep '00

23 Sep '00

This story is actually fairly old, but it's just now available in electronic form (I didn't want to type it up!) and it's still a relevant piece of news. ----- Institute Declines Offer to Evaluate FBI Electronic Surveillance Program ----- MIT has informally declined to review Carnivore, the FBI's e-mail surveillance system. The Department of Justice had approached MIT to do a "technical evaluation" of the system, but MIT technicians and administrators decided that it would not be appropriate for the Institute to undertake the review. The impetus for an independent review came in response to pressure from civil liberties groups: the DOJ is seeking an impartial third party to assuage fears that Carnivore is infringing privacy rights. MIT researchers, including Information Systems Network Manager Jeff Schiller and Professor of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science Ronald L. Rivest, said that while the review was important, they declined to review Carnivore based on two main concerns. First, the government set unreasonable guidelines for the way the review was to be carried out, and second, there was a lack of interest among MIT personnel, probably due to problematic government restrictions and time commitments. Schiller said that the DOJ did not really want an independent review at all. Instead, it wanted to "borrow our reputation" and allow the FBI to say to the public, "`If you don't trust us, trust MIT.'" Those involved agreed that as a research university, MIT cannot publish a report without releasing all of the data that it used in conducting the evaluation. Due to security issues, it would be up to the FBI to decide what information to release. In addition, Schiller was concerned with the government's power to edit the report before releasing it to the public. The internal MIT discussion as to whether to accept the DOJ's bid included Schiller and high-level EECS professors Hal Abelson Ph.D. '73, Jerome H. Saltzer, and M. Frans Kaashoek, as well as Laboratory for Computer Science head Michael L. Dertouzos. Schiller and Abelson said that the general consensus among those involved in discussions was that the DOJ had set an improbable deadline on the project, and that there were too many problems inherent in the DOJ's proposal. Abelson said that the government's concerns are valid, but given the constraints the DOJ has imposed, "it shouldn't hope for an independent review." DOJ says restrictions are fair DOJ Chief Science and Technical Officer Donald Prosnitz and Associate Attorney General for Administration Stephen R. Colgate said that they "understood the concerns of the universities." Along with the Institute, Purdue University, Dartmouth College, University of Michigan, and the Supercomputing Centre at the University of California have all turned down bids extended by the DOJ, according to published reports. Prosnitz said, however, that there are actually "very few limits" placed on the contractor that is to review Carnivore. He contended that the only restrictions imposed by the government are standard security procedures such as background checks of personnel involved in the project. In addition, the source code for Carnivore will remain confidential, Prosnitz said. The contractor has access to everything else it needs, he said. Prosnitz explained that the reason for the close deadline of December 1 is that the DOJ wants to have the report done during Attorney General Janet Reno's tenure, so that she will have time to consider the case. In addition, the DOJ hopes to have Congress vote on it in their next session. The present administration will step down on January 20, 2000, but Prosnitz said that he has total confidence that the transition of government will not in any way affect the system's operation. The government is currently in negotiations with a possible contractor. The unnamed contractor has said that it will finish the project on schedule, Prosnitz said. Schiller questions review While Schiller said that an independent review is important, he said that he has no doubt that the system will work the way it is supposed to work. A more important question, he said, is whether or not the FBI would abide by what the court order allows it legally to do. Schiller suggested that a third party, most probably a user's Internet service provider, be responsible for gathering evidence, and then turning it over to the FBI. Prosnitz and Colgate stated that it was actually their preference to have the ISP gather and turn over evidence in the form of e-mail. Carnivore is only used in cases when a small ISP does not have the capabilities of giving the FBI what the court orders demand, he said. Prosnitz added that Carnivore has been used less than 25 times since its creation. ----- This article originally appeared in The Tech, issue 41 volume 120. It may be freely distributed electronically as long as it includes this notice but cannot be reprinted without the express written permission of The Tech. Write to archive(a)the-tech.mit.edu for additional details. -- Riad Wahby rsw(a)mit.edu MIT VI-2/A 2002 5105

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CDR: You Could Win a Volkswagen Beetle!
by TroppoLotto 22 Sep '00

22 Sep '00

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CDR: So...
by Jim Choate 22 Sep '00

22 Sep '00

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CDR: Re: Help tracing one of your users?
by Stephen Tihor 22 Sep '00

22 Sep '00

Thank you for your problem report. We have identified the user and are contacting them directly.

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CDR: Treasury Department worries about ecash, anonymity
by Declan McCullagh 22 Sep '00

22 Sep '00

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,38955,00.html Feds: Digital Cash Can Thwart Us by Declan McCullagh (declan(a)wired.com) 3:00 a.m. Sep. 22, 2000 PDT WASHINGTON -- A Treasury Department report warns that technologies such as the Internet and electronic cash could thwart the federal government's efforts to conduct surveillance of bank and credit card transactions. The internal strategic plan predicts that technology may help law enforcement by allowing agents to assemble ever-growing databases of Americans' financial activities, but it can also provide more anonymity than ever before. Treasury's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) prepared the 36-page document, which was obtained by Wired News. It says: "The development of new technologies -- such as electronic cash, electronic purses, Internet or smartcard based electronic payment systems, and Internet banking -- is increasing the ability of individuals to rapidly transfer large sums of money, and could pose a challenge for FinCEN and other law enforcement agencies combating money laundering." [...]

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22 Sep '00

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