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CDR: Rants and sour grapes ...
by Ernest Hua 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

It is abundantly clear to me that much of the ranting going on here on this list is at least 50% sour grapes. Not to pick on Tim, but he just seems like a convenient example; it is clear in Tim's mind that he does not want the possibility of Gore being the next president. He may have some procedural reasons to back this rant up, but he definitely does not like Gore. The same can be said of the rants about the dead guy. The same can be said of the disgruntled voters of Palm county. The same can be said of Republicans and Democrats desperately trying to manipulate the rules to gain some tiny margin of hope of winning. Yes, in all of these cases, the interested party can cite many legal issues and keep lots of lawyers fed and happy. But if the opposing party was the one who might stand to gain from the same procedural maneuvers, these rants and whines would never have come from the same people. I know Tim will be offended because I am accusing him of being less than objective, but I really have trouble believing he would hold the same position so firmly if his favorite candidate might stand to gain from the post-election-day legal challenges. (Like I said, Tim, I'm sorry it looks like I'm picking on you, but you've made yourself so easy to pick on. Perhaps you would just think about what would happen if your candidate was the one who WOULD stand to gain from the legal challenges.) It's just sour grapes. Ern

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CDR: RE: Where is John Young?
by Vin McLellan 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

At 11/10/00, Trei, Peter wrote: >There are new articles, dated today, in the cryptome. There is >a gap from Nov 5 thru Nov 9. Maybe he went on vacation. Naaah. John doesn't go on vacations. I would be surprised if he sleeps. According to well-informed US government sources --speaking in their private capacities, with a promise of ZKS-protected anonymity) -- subject JYA is, in any case, never further than 7.6 meters from a keyboard whether he is awake or asleep. Could it be he was off on a binge celebrating the continuation of the DC gridlock? _Vin

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CDR: Re: A very brief politcal rant
by Furlong, Steven 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

Robert Hettinga wrote: >...The one person I fear more than Tim May, maybe even >my Roslindale Attorney, being me dear Mum... :-)) You think you got it bad? _My_ mom is a small-town deputy. And she drives a pickup. The only saving grace is there isn't a shotgun rack in the pickup. Regards, Steve Furlong, Computer Condottiere Have GNU, will travel sfurlong(a)acmenet.net

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CDR: RE: A very brief politcal rant
by Ernest Hua 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

Ok ... so we are now splitting hairs on language. Fine. Have it your way. My statement that every voter actually knew was improper. However, you are just going off on a tangent ... I am sure that months or years after JFK was assasinated, you can find someone who didn't even know he was in office. There is just no way to deal with this level of cluelessness. In these days of mass media, Internet, etc ... If you didn't know the guy was dead, and his wife was to take his place, you aren't trying. I don't care. It's not my state. I still had no choice but to be bombarded with that news. Sorry. My point still stands. Ern -----Original Message----- X-Loop: openpgp.net From: Declan McCullagh [mailto:declan@well.com] Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 10:01 AM To: Ernest Hua; Ernest Hua Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: A very brief politcal rant As a working journalist writing about politics, I get lots of feedback from voters. Many are, sadly, clueless. But it is a stretch to assert, as you blithely do, that every voter knew that the guy was dead. My own experience shows otherwise. -Declan At 09:55 11/10/2000 -0800, Ernest Hua wrote: >To believe your assertions, you would have to assume that the >voter walked into the booth never picking up on any news and >never spoke to anyone, and just had no clue who he/she was >voting for. This behavior is clearly legal. But just as Tim >cannot be concerned about inner city welfare mothers ("maggots"? >what word did he use?), I simply cannot be concerned about this >uninformed segment of the electorate.

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CDR: RE: A very brief politcal rant
by Ernest Hua 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

I'm sorry, but we just clearly disagree. Every voter had enough opportunity to know that the guy was dead, and that the wife was to succeed him. If some voters did not know, I'm sorry to them. It was all over the news. Every person has a right to be hermit or to be generally clueless. But I cannot help those people. In the original message, the central issue was whether it was legal for the governor to appoint the wife. I spoke to that issue assuming that the voters had enough opportunity to know what was going on. To believe your assertions, you would have to assume that the voter walked into the booth never picking up on any news and never spoke to anyone, and just had no clue who he/she was voting for. This behavior is clearly legal. But just as Tim cannot be concerned about inner city welfare mothers ("maggots"? what word did he use?), I simply cannot be concerned about this uninformed segment of the electorate. Ern -----Original Message----- X-Loop: openpgp.net From: Declan McCullagh [mailto:declan@well.com] Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 7:14 AM To: Ernest Hua Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: A very brief politcal rant On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 12:51:05AM -0500, Ernest Hua wrote: > My original point still stands. The voters should get what they > want, unless they want something clearly illegal. That's a clear > principle in our pseudo-democracy. Every principle has a point No, your original point was muddled. It's not clear that every voter who chose the dead guy knew that his widow would take the slot. Since the election is so close, that matters. If you want to make sure the voters are getting what they want, put the non-dead-guy's name on the ballot. -Declan

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CDR: Your Faq-O-Matic authentication secret
by www-data 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

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CDR: Newsletter from Bacalao.Net
by BACALAO.NET 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

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CDR: RE: A very brief politcal rant
by Ernest Hua 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

As I said earlier, a court may very well find some Constitutional issue or something else very serious about the appointment. But I would think that, in that event, there will be some other way found to work around the necessity for an appointment. Special bill passed in the state legislature? Who knows. My original point still stands. The voters should get what they want, unless they want something clearly illegal. That's a clear principle in our pseudo-democracy. Every principle has a point where it must be compromised to appropriately coexist with other principles. But it is clear that if the voters have spoken, there has to be a strong counter argument before their wishes can be voided in effect (not just in procedure). I am quite certain this principle will have a strong impact on the outcome, should should the issue go to trial. Ern -----Original Message----- X-Loop: openpgp.net From: Declan McCullagh [mailto:declan@well.com] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 8:18 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: A very brief politcal rant Well, if it is an unconstitutional election-appointment combination, then technicalities *do* count, if only to keep some respect for that tattered document alive. I don't care much about that election, and it is big of Ashcroft to step aside, but the law turns on what you dismiss as mere "technicalities." -Declan On Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 01:06:09PM -0500, Ernest Hua wrote: > Um ... this is a good technical argument, but it does not address > the basic premise that what the voters wants is what the voters > should get. There is no question what the voter wants. They > knew ahead of time that they would be voting for a dead man's wife. > The appointment may be technically flawed, but for a judge to throw > this out would require finding a serious problem. Technicality is > probably not a serious enough problem to go against the electorate. > > Ern > > -----Original Message----- > X-Loop: openpgp.net > From: Jim Burnes [mailto:jburnes@savvis.net] > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 9:13 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: A very brief politcal rant > > > > On Wed, 08 Nov 2000, William H. Geiger III wrote: > > In <973697805.3a09730d4e448(a)webmail.cotse.com>, on 11/08/00 > > > > at 09:36 AM, brflgnk(a)cotse.com said: > > >If the citizens of Missouri chose to elect a deceased person as Senator, > > >I think that's exactly what they should get. Leave the seat empty for > > >two years. > > > > Someone had brought up the Constitutionality of having a dead man on the > > ballot. The reasoning was that the deceased are no longer legally citizens > > and therefore do not meet the Constitutional requirements for office. > > Even more significant is that a dead man cannot take the oath of office. > > If he can't take the oath of office he can't occupy the office. The > governor only has the power to replace a senatoratorial position if > the current office holder dies. > > Since Carnahan died before he took office, the office remains unfilled. The > > governor does not have power to appoint senators willy-nilly. The office > must > be held before it can be filled. The correct solution would be to hold a > special election so that the public has a chance to know who they are voting > into office. What the democrats are afraid of is that his wife might be > less fit to hold that office than her husband in some democrat's minds > (after debates etc). > > Here is a question? Would it be vote fraud to run one person's name on the > ballot and replace him with someone else when he won? > > jim > > -- > Sometimes it is said that man can not be trusted with the government of > himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we > found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let history answer this > question. -- Thomas Jefferson, 1st Inaugural >

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CDR: RE: Where is John Young?
by Trei, Peter 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

> ---------- > From: Tim May[SMTP:tcmay@got.net] > At 8:50 AM -0800 11/9/00, A. Melon wrote: > >Declan; > > Why haven't you found out yet what happened to Jim Bell? Certainly > you > >could ask questions of Portland PD, whatever, or his mom, find out what > >they've done with him. > > This is certainly a newsworthy item. Squelching free speech by > terrorizing > >dissedents is what it's all about. > > And where is John Young? His last post I can find was on 11/2. > Nothing since about the time the Bell raid happened. > > (And his posting statistics were fairly uniform prior to this: a post > or two every day, with very few long gaps.) > > I was only half-joking that maybe Bell's and Young's work on tracing > down those CIA safe houses in Bend, Oregon were getting him in > trouble. > > John, say it ain't so. > > --Tim May > There are new articles, dated today, in the cryptome. There is a gap from Nov 5 thru Nov 9. Maybe he went on vacation. Peter Trei

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CDR: Single photons on demand
by Jim Choate 10 Nov '00

10 Nov '00

See, http:/www.sciencedaily.com ____________________________________________________________________ He is able who thinks he is able. Buddha The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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