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matrix coat
by JAMES A MOONEY 12 Dec '00

12 Dec '00

go to trenchco.com

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Re: Re: Questions of size...
by sunder 12 Dec '00

12 Dec '00

Ben Laurie wrote: > > That'd be cool. Does it count as reading in Mr. May's view? > Most of Tim's post do make it to the filtered list. The ones that are complaints to spams, bomb requests, etc. don't. :) -- ----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--------------------------- + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often. --------_sunder_(a)_sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------

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Info..help
by sunil pandith 12 Dec '00

12 Dec '00

Dear Sir, I am an engineering student. I am interested in real time encryption of = voice using a DSP kit and a stream cipher., Kindly send me the link = where the algorithm is available... I am in need of the white paper or similar thing, which is going to = explain me the algoritm clearly, thanking you, sunil ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1

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(no subject)
by Schott, Wayne 12 Dec '00

12 Dec '00

___________________________________________________________________________ http://www.piperjaffray.com Nondeposit investment products are not insured by the FDIC, are not deposits or other obligations of or guaranteed by U.S. Bank National Association or its affiliates, and involve investment risks, including possible loss of the principal amount invested. Past performance does not guarantee future results. We consider our sources reliable. Accuracy and completeness are not guaranteed. Information is subject to change. Transactional details should not be relied on for tax purposes and do not supersede normal trade confirmations or statements. Messaging outside U.S. jurisdictions from U.S. Bancorp Piper Jaffray to non-institutional parties is not intended for solicitation purposes. Electronic mail sent through the Internet is not secure. We will not accept time-sensitive, action-oriented messages, transaction orders, fund transfer instructions or check stop payments electronically. If you are not the intended recipient, notify the Sender. This information is intended only for the person named above and for the purposes indicated. Do not distribute this message without written consent of the author. Non-business opinions may not reflect opinions of U.S. Bancorp Piper Jaffray and its affiliates. U.S. Bancorp Piper Jaffray and its affiliates reserve the right to monitor all e-mail. Securities products and services are offered through U.S. Bancorp Piper Jaffray Inc., member SIPC and NYSE, Inc., a subsidiary of U.S. Bancorp. ___________________________________________________________________________

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Re: Questions of size...
by Ben Laurie 12 Dec '00

12 Dec '00

What???? Chambers defines geodesic as "the shortest line on a surface between two points on it" and that is precisely the meaning in general relativity. Saying that it has anything to do with distributed systems is making it up as you go along. And if RAH is now going to claim that's what he meant then he's making it up as he goes along, too (well, we knew that anyway, but redefining geodesic in this way is going too far). Cheers, Ben. "R. A. Hettinga" wrote: > > --- begin forwarded text > > Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 19:04:12 +0200 (EET) > From: Sampo A Syreeni <ssyreeni(a)cc.helsinki.fi> > To: Ray Dillinger <bear(a)sonic.net> > cc: <cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net> > Subject: Re: Questions of size... > Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net > Reply-To: Sampo A Syreeni <ssyreeni(a)cc.helsinki.fi> > > On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Ray Dillinger wrote: > > >>>(RAH might have called it a geodesic political culture if he hadn't got > >>>this strange Marxist idea that politics is just an emergent property of > >>>economics :-) > > > >Just by the way, how widespread is this use of the word 'geodesic'? > > Not very, I think. It seems it's RAH's specialty. It's quite poetic, > actually. > > >Offhand, I'd refer to many of the things I've seen it used for here > >as 'distributed' or 'fractal'. Is 'geodesic' an accepted term of art > >for a network or protocol in which all the parts work roughly the same > >way? > > Although 'geodesic' does have, through its use in general relativity, some > faint echo of 'operates purely based on local information', I think it's a > misnomer. People should rather use the term 'distributed' literally, as it's > used in computer science. That's the meaning RAH is after, not true? > > Sampo Syreeni <decoy(a)iki.fi>, aka decoy, student/math/Helsinki university > > --- end forwarded text > > -- > ----------------- > R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah(a)ibuc.com> > The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> > 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA > "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, > [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to > experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' -- http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html "There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit." - Robert Woodruff

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Re: Questions of size...
by Somebody 12 Dec '00

12 Dec '00

Bob, The distinction between geometry, topology, and, presumably, homology, begs the question. You, following Huber, have used the word geodesic to refer to connections of minimal cost. In the economic manifold (surface) this is presumably the only important metric (local distance function). The analogy is mathematically precise in all respects, and therefore correct. I'd have flogged you into submission long before this if it were not so. Geodesics, or more properly, geodesic paths, are locally defined. There is not necessarily a geodesic between two specific points. In a differentiable manifold with a sufficiently smooth metric, there are geodesic paths in every direction through every point, however. Whether there is one of those paths going to some other given point is a question of connectivity and other topological issues. Two separate spheres are a single differential manifold. No great circle path -- the geodesics of each surface -- connects any point on one sphere with any point of the other. Unfortunately, geodesics may also be the longest paths between two points. Just go the wrong way on the great circle determined by two ends of the Mass Ave bridge. It's a path of stationary length: slight variations in the path make hardly any difference in its length. Unfortunately its length is maximum rather than minimum. By the way, have I mentioned that I HATE it when I agree with Tim? <Somebody's .sig> ------------------------ From: "R. A. Hettinga" <rah(a)shipwright.com> Subject: Re: Questions of size... Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:16:57 -0500 To: Some People, Privately --- begin forwarded text

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Re: Questions of size...
by Somebody 12 Dec '00

12 Dec '00

Bob, The distinction between geometry, topology, and, presumably, homology, begs the question. You, following Huber, have used the word geodesic to refer to connections of minimal cost. In the economic manifold (surface) this is presumably the only important metric (local distance function). The analogy is mathematically precise in all respects, and therefore correct. I'd have flogged you into submission long before this if it were not so. Geodesics, or more properly, geodesic paths, are locally defined. There is not necessarily a geodesic between two specific points. In a differentiable manifold with a sufficiently smooth metric, there are geodesic paths in every direction through every point, however. Whether there is one of those paths going to some other given point is a question of connectivity and other topological issues. Two separate spheres are a single differential manifold. No great circle path -- the geodesics of each surface -- connects any point on one sphere with any point of the other. Unfortunately, geodesics may also be the longest paths between two points. Just go the wrong way on the great circle determined by two ends of the Mass Ave bridge. It's a path of stationary length: slight variations in the path make hardly any difference in its length. Unfortunately its length is maximum rather than minimum. By the way, have I mentioned that I HATE it when I agree with Tim? <Somebody's .sig> ------------------------ From: "R. A. Hettinga" <rah(a)shipwright.com> Subject: Re: Questions of size... Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:16:57 -0500 To: Some People, Privately --- begin forwarded text

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Re: FC: Yet Another Survey: Americans have become privacy pragmatists
by Duncan Frissell 12 Dec '00

12 Dec '00

>Business President Alan Westin says that more Americans now fall into the >category of "privacy pragmatist" rather than "privacy fundamentalist." Ron >Plesser of Piper Marbury Rudnick & Wolf says that the Internet industry >must determine how to properly use Social Security numbers. "Regulating >the purchase and sale of Social Security numbers over the Internet won't >come overnight," Plesser says. Damn few "privacy fundamentalists" out there. Most "privacy advocates" support massive government privacy invasions including the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended, the Census Bureau, and the various state DMVs. Unless a "privacy advocate" is prepared to call for the elimination of the above privacy invading institutions or at least their conversion to anonymous credential technology, then I submit that they are *not* privacy advocates at all. As for the eternal SS# question, Amex and Discover will currently give you "one time use" cc numbers to use over the nets. A consumer-friendly government could do the same. Particularly since they already have the institutional setup in place. Anyone who forms an entity of any kind that has US tax implications (sole proprietorship, partnership, trust, estate, corporation, etc.) can/must apply for a taxpayer ID number (TIN). The Feds could issue them to the rest of us for one-time use. DCF I knew America was in trouble when I found that the application to join the Sons of the American Revolution asks for your Social Security Number.

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None
by Anonymous 12 Dec '00

12 Dec '00

update HONG KONG--Siemens has a solution for people who constantly forget computer passwords: a mouse that recognizes fingerprints. Called the ID Mouse, the device uses biometrics to take advantage of the unique features of people's fingerprints. German electronics maker Siemens, which showed off the ID Mouse this week at the ITU Asia Telecom 2000 fair, said the device works by allowing pre-authorized people to retrieve information from their PCs or laptops. By lightly tapping the fingertip sensor located at the top of the mouse, the device verifies the fingerprint against reference templates already input into the PC's system. Once a fingerprint is authenticated, the person can then access the PC's main operating system. Siemens is one of numerous companies headed in the direction of using unique features for identification. The mouse is powered by 65,000 sensing elements on the 0.25 square-inch fingertip chip that enables the device to scan and capture the fine details of a fingerprint. The system is so sensitive that it will recognize an authorized person even if there is a cut on the fingertip. For added security, if the mouse user takes a break, the screensaver is activated until the person touches the ID Mouse again. Other than that, the ID Mouse operates just like any Microsoft mouse. It has a wheel scroll for navigation and requires at least Microsoft Windows 98 and a USB connection. This week's conference is the International Telecommunications Union's 23rd telecom show since its 1971 debut in Geneva. The six-day fair, which ends Saturday, took place in Hong Kong this year and was expected to attract at least 50,000 visitors from more than 50 countries. Singapore.CNET.com's Priscilla Wong reported from Hong Kong.

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RE: Questions of size...
by Carskadden, Rush 12 Dec '00

12 Dec '00

Comments below: > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim May [mailto:tcmay@got.net] > Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 5:51 PM > To: cypherpunks(a)cyberpass.net > Subject: Re: Questions of size... > <snip> > By the way, one topological aspect of a geodesic dome, to go back to > that, is that each node is surrounded by some number of neighbors. > Applied to a "geodesic economy," this image/metaphor would strongly > suggest that economic agents are trading with their neighbors, who > then trade with other neighbors, and so on. > > Tribes deep in the Amazon, who deal only with their neighbors, are > then the canonical "geodesic economy." I would disagree with the supporting logic here. You could theoretically conclude that such systems were geodesic in nature if you really wanted to, but it would be due to the fact that there is a minimum economic distance (cost, perhaps) in dealings between participants. I don't think it is safe to say that these transactions are canonically geodesic, unless you are also willing to propose that the "surface" of the economic structure is bound inseperably to the geography of the planet. I believe that when we are talking about a distance metric associated with the structure of economic transactions (we are talking about transactions, right?), the most natural metric to be used in geodesic economics would be cost. That's not to say that I have, at this point, read any material that makes a great logical case for the geodesic nature of the economic transactions that Mr. Hettinga describes. I am currently operating on a little blind faith and a big hunch when assuming for the sake of conversation that Mr. Hettinga's proposed transactions would be reduced-cost. It just seems to make sense. I agree with you, Mr. May, that a seemingly geodesic economomic system can be achieved through localization of the market and direct trade. I do not believe that localization is a defining element of a geodesic economy. It seems that a broad move toward localization being in-efficient in our own economy (one would have to prove this, and why), the concepts that Mr. Hettinga proposes may provide a working substitute for localization, by proposing a means of direct interaction between parties that breaks geographical limitations, and thereby reducing E.D. (economic distance). Again, one would have to prove that cost is a good metric for E.D., and then one would have to prove that Mr. Hettinga's proposals result in reduced cost in transactions. It's a tough case, but my hunch sides with Mr. Hettinga. > This is precisely the _opposite_ of the mulitiply-connected trading > situation which modern systems make possible. > > So, aside from the cuteness of suggesting a connection with geodesic > domes, with buckybits as the currency perhaps?, this all creates > confusion rather than clarity. > > > --Tim May > -- > (This .sig file has not been significantly changed since 1992. As the > election debacle unfolds, it is time to prepare a new one. > Stay tuned.) >

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