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Freedom of speech is for "Cypherpunk critics" too
by Nomen Nescio 15 Sep '01

15 Sep '01

Tim May writes: > Funny, I notice how many of the critics of Cypherpunks and supporters of > this express train approach to repealing the Bill of Rights are > themselves hiding behind Cypherpunks remailers, Hushmail aliases, and > Ziplip nyms. If you're upset that "critics of the Cypherpunks" are able to speak freely then you shouldn't have supported the technologies that enable them to do so. Free speech is for everyone, not just those who toe your line of violence and blood revenge.

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RE: Crypto-anonymity greases HUMINT intelligence flows
by Sandy Sandfort 15 Sep '01

15 Sep '01

Meyer Wolfsheim wrote: > My apologies; I never meant that as the > implication. I highly doubt that you, or > most people, would ever be capable of evil > on 1/10th the scale of this attack. Thanks, but I'd go a bit further. The percentage of humans who would be capable of such evil has to be vanishingly small. Unfortunately, that percentage is not zero so this sort of thing continues to happen. > However, if you assume lack of conscience > and moral indifference, this does become a > cost/benefit situation. We have to assume it because it demonstrably exists. The trick then is, to make the costs greater or the benefits less. Easier said then done, but those are our only alternatives. > One of the problems with capital punishment > is that it isn't much of a deterrent, except > to the Christians who believe in Hell. I think a much strong argument can be made that those who do not believe in an afterlife would be more deterred than those who do. > You can only be executed once. Yeah, but it's that once that counts forever. In any event, that's the situation in which we live. There will always be that tiny minority that will do evil. The rest of us are left to monkey with the cost/benefit to reduce the incidences of such evil. Life goes on. > Americans will do everything they can not > to believe that this could have been a > domestic action. We want to blame the > "sand-niggers" and the "rag-heads." The > fact that this could have been a sociopath > with the ultimate get-rich quick scheme is > unthinkable.[2] And so far, unsupported by the facts. Time will tell. In the mean time, Meyer, I'll bet you, or anyone on this list, a C-note that this is the work of Bin Laden. Any takers? S a n d y

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RE: Crypto-anonymity greases HUMINT intelligence flows
by Meyer Wolfsheim 15 Sep '01

15 Sep '01

On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, Jim Choate wrote: > On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, Meyer Wolfsheim wrote: > > > Have there ever been any large-scale terroristic attacks where profit was > > the only motive? > > terrorism <> economics. Economics as a direct goal isn't the issue in > terrorism. You're 'mixing your metaphors'... No, Jim, I am not. If one were to commit an act of destruction, in order to manipulate economic markets with the ensuing public fear or outrage, that would be terrorism with economics as a direct goal. You're thinking too narrowly. -MW-

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Lists of those to be arrested in a state of national emergency
by Tim May 15 Sep '01

15 Sep '01

On Saturday, September 15, 2001, at 11:37 AM, Meyer Wolfsheim wrote: > > Now is a perfect time for the Government to round up and arrest those > people whose imprisonment might otherwise inspire protests or public > outrage, whether or not these arrests are related to terrorism. I'm watching an ABC special on Gen. Groves, the builder of the Pentagon and manager/commander of the Manhattan Project. (One of the first breaks from WTC-specific news, and even this is of course related to the events.) Anyway, they just showed the papers that had J. Robert Oppenheimer on a list in May 1941 of those who were to be arrested by the FBI in the event that a "national emergency" was declared. As it happened, Oppenheimer was _not_ arrested, nor placed in concentration camps the way most Japanese- and (some) German-ancestry Americans were. (They actually showed the papers authorizing the arrest, should an emergency be declared.) But this shows that such lists have in fact existed. And that mere academic scientists were on such lists. Thought criminals, as they had no involvement in government agencies or the military. We are now in a state of national emergency, declared by Bush yesterday. Draw your own conclusions. --Tim May

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SUPER KICTEN HELPER
by fmacd＠dbis.ns.ca 15 Sep '01

15 Sep '01

-<[ S U P E R K I T C H E N H E L P E R ]>- Save your loved one's hands and arms from burns when reaching for pots and sheets in the oven. The S. K. H. is an oven rack pusher / puller that can eliminate these hazzards. Facts About "The Super Kitchen Helper" - Made in Atlantic Canada - Quality wood construction - Over 50,000 sold North America. - Makes a perfect stocking stuffer. Send $5.00 + $2.50 S/H = $ 7.50 To: ROMAC MARKETING 99 Main Street, Unit #4 DARTMOUTH, Nova Scotia Canada B4R 1R1 (902) 435-3007 E-Mail: fmacd(a)dbis.ns.ca URL: Under Construction

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SUPER KICTEN HELPER
by fmacd＠dbis.ns.ca 15 Sep '01

15 Sep '01

-<[ S U P E R K I T C H E N H E L P E R ]>- Save your loved one's hands and arms from burns when reaching for pots and sheets in the oven. The S. K. H. is an oven rack pusher / puller that can eliminate these hazzards. Facts About "The Super Kitchen Helper" - Made in Atlantic Canada - Quality wood construction - Over 50,000 sold North America. - Makes a perfect stocking stuffer. Send $5.00 + $2.50 S/H = $ 7.50 To: ROMAC MARKETING 99 Main Street, Unit #4 DARTMOUTH, Nova Scotia Canada B4R 1R1 (902) 435-3007 E-Mail: fmacd(a)dbis.ns.ca URL: Under Construction

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Re: RE: Crypto-anonymity greases HUMINT intelligence flows
by Jim Choate 15 Sep '01

15 Sep '01

On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, Meyer Wolfsheim wrote: > Have there ever been any large-scale terroristic attacks where profit was > the only motive? terrorism <> economics. Economics as a direct goal isn't the issue in terrorism. You're 'mixing your metaphors'... -- ____________________________________________________________________ Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. George Santyana The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Apfn
by Jim Choate 15 Sep '01

15 Sep '01

Unbelievable horror? What a fucking idiot. Hiroshima Nagasaki Warsaw Finland Dresden Leningrad Moscow Perl Harbor Tokyo London Lubiyanka Prison/KGB/... Treblinka Innumerable Communist Gulag's Tiannimin Square ... On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, Lance Tomlyn wrote: > APFN > David Icke > pass this on > Fri Sep 14 10:29:49 2001 > > > ALICE IN WONDERLAND AND THE WTC DISASTER > IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR THE FORCE > BEHIND THE U.S. ATROCITIES > JUST ASK: WHO BENEFITS? > "Nothing would be what it is, Because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary-wise -what it is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?" - Alice in Wonderland. > By David Icke > > The force that seeks to control this world and introduce its global fascist state, the network I call the Illuminati, is nothing if not predictable. > > The unbelievable horror perpetrated on the cities of New York and Washington is a problem-reaction-solution sting on the collective mind of all humanity and I have been expecting an event of this magnitude for some years. I thought it could be a war or a nuclear "terrorist" device, but something fantastic was always going to happen during the years of the Bush presidency when, as I wrote on inauguration day, the agenda would be pressed forward with a gathering pace. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it. George Santyana The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage(a)ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: Crypto-anonymity greases HUMINT intelligence flows
by Nomen Nescio 15 Sep '01

15 Sep '01

Sandfort: > I have NO IDEA what this strange post has to do with the original question. > I'm a libertarian. As such, I see no problem in doing well by doing good. > Just because I would jump at $5 million (plus Witness Relocation) to finger > Bin Laden does not mean I would do something evil for that amount or more. And fingering bin Laden wouldn't be just as evil? It would be for one of his followers, now wouldn't it? Evil is relative. Would you become Judas Iscariot -- for how many shekels? And if you say that as someone close to bin Laden, you would rat on him for money, how about us, how about your friends and family here in the US? What's the price for them?

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Please make stable NON-US homes for strong crypto projects (fwd)
by Jim Choate 15 Sep '01

15 Sep '01

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:32:12 -0700 From: John Gilmore <gnu(a)toad.com> To: cryptography(a)wasabisystems.com, gnu(a)toad.com Subject: Please make stable NON-US homes for strong crypto projects It's clear that the US administration is putting out feelers to again ban publication of strong encryption. See: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,46816,00.html The evil gnomes who keep advancing unconstitutional US anti-crypto policies know that the current hysteria in Congress and the Administration will not last forever. So they will probably move very quickly -- within a week is my guess -- to re-control encryption, either by a unilateral action of the Administration (by amending the Export Administration Regulations), or by stuffing a rider onto some so-called "emergency" bill in Congress. They maneuvered very carefully in the Bernstein case such that there is no outstanding injunction against violating the Constitution this way -- and even no binding 9th-Circuit precedent that tells them it's unconstitutional to do so. They know in their hearts that numerous judges have found it unconstitutional, but they have proven throughout the seven-year history of the case that they don't give a damn about the Constitution. Which means it may take weeks, months or years for civil liberties workers to get a judge to roll back any such action. Not just days. We won the case, but they squirmed out of any permanent restrictions -- so far. The US government has a new mania for wiretapping everyone in case they might be a terrorist. There's already two bills in Congress to make it trivial for them to wiretap anybody on flimsy excuses, and to retroactively justify their precipitous act of rolling Carnivore boxes into major ISPs this week and demanding, without legal authority, that they be put at the heart of the networks. See: http://www.politechbot.com/docs/cta.091401.html Even more than before, we will need good encryption tools, merely to maintain privacy for law-abiding citizens, political activists, and human rights workers. (In the current hysteria, mere messages advocating peace or Constitutional rights might best be encrypted.) The European Parliament also recently recommended that European communications be routinely encrypted to protect them from pervasive US Echelon wiretaps. Some US developers, who thought such a reversal would never happen, have built or maintained a number of good open source encryption tools in the United States, and may not have lined up solid foreign maintainers or home sites. LET'S FIX THAT! We need volunteers in many countries to mirror current distributions, CVS trees, etc. We need volunteers to also act as maintainers, accepting patches and integrating them into solid releases. (Note that too many countries have pledged to stand toe-to-toe with the US while they march off to make war on somebody they can't figure out who it is yet. If you live in one of those countries, you may suddenly find that your own crypto regs have been sneakily altered. Take care that each useful package has maintainers and distribution points in diverse countries.) I haven't kept close track of which packages are in danger. I suggest that people nominate packages on this mailing list, and that others immediately grab mirror copies of them as they are nominated. And that some of those who mirror them keep quiet, in case hysterical governments make a concerted effort to stamp out all copies and/or all major distribution sites. If you aren't the quiet type, then *AFTER* IMMEDIATELY PULLING A COPY OF THE CODE OUTSIDE US JURISDICTION, announce your mirror on this mailing list. We freedom-loving US citizens have had to rely on the freedom-loving citizens of saner countries, to do the work of making strong encryption, for many years. We had a brief respite, which we will eventually resume for good. In the meantime, please let me apologize for my countrymen and for my government, for asking you to shoulder most of the burden again. Thank you so much. John Gilmore PS: Companies with proprietary encryption packages might consider immediately open-sourcing and exporting their encryption add-ins, so their customers can still get them from overseas archives. Or taking other actions to safeguard the privacy and integrity of their customers' data and their society's infrastructure. I also advise that they lobby like hell to keep privacy and integrity legal in the US. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo(a)wasabisystems.com

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