- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

Re: Intercepts foretold of 'big attack' -- The Washington Times
by Declan McCullagh 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

You're pretty much right.But the Times has some very decent reporters, and get more national security and defense scoops than the Post. -Declan On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 01:05:10PM -0400, Trei, Peter wrote: > The Choate wrote: > > > Subject: Intercepts foretold of 'big attack' -- The Washington Times > > > > http://www.washtimes.com/national/default-200192213012.htm > > > Now, isn't the washtimes the paper which is owned by the Moonies? > This doesn't neccesarily mean it can't be a good paper, but it gives > me pause. > > Maybe my info is out of date > > Peter Trei

4 3

Re: Democracy is our enemy
by keyser-soze＠hushmail.com 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

At 03:22 AM 9/25/2001 +0000, Anonymous wrote: >>Thomas Leavitt writes: >> I'm tired of hearing my fellow Americans referred to as cowards, >> weaklings, sheep, ignorant, easily mislead - this is a profoundly >> undemocratic sentiment, the same kind of crap spewed by totalitarian >> and authoritarian types from the far left and the far right as >> justification for abandonment of the democratic process and the use of >> force to impose their ideology on the rest of us. >Well said. >There was an article the other day about the terrorists, which made the point that capitalism and fundamentalism were much alike, in that both share a distrust of democracy. The same can be said for the cypherpunks. The same can be said for the framers. That's why we don't have a democracy butthead. >Is it possible that certain cypherpunks find themselves on the same side as bin Laden and his fundamentalist killers? Do they secretly support this murderous attacks on innocent civilians? We now face biological and chemical attacks, which are supposed to be even more "cruel and shocking" than the WTC attacks. Are these cypherpunks in favor of seeing more Americans killed by terrorist actions? I can't speak for others but I don't want to see any more Americans killed by terrorists than have been killed by U.S.-supported right-wing regimes in the past 50 years. Its only when the chickens come home to roost that the true price of our global hegenomy and "victory" against others with different idiologies will be driven home and our foreign policy adjusted accordingly. >The philosophical connection becomes even clearer with the frequent statements by cypherpunks that those who disagree "need killing", that blood must be shed by those of different political views. Not views, actions which impinge on our liberties. >In effect this is a call for a Cypherpunk Jihad (the word is often translated as "holy war", but "justified struggle" is as valid a translation). It is no different for Tim May to call for the extinction of his enemies than for Usama bin Laden to do so. >Cypherpunks need to take a hard look at themselves. Anyone who feels horror and disgust at the terrorist acts should recognize that the same sentiments are found here, just below the surface. The thinly veiled threats of bloodshed are based on the same philosophy of violent hatred and contempt for others which motivates the terrorists. One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. Asymetrical warfare is here to stay. Get used to it! U.S. citizens feel their hands are clean because our leaders made sure Americans weren't holding the guns which slaughtered tens of thousands. They can't understand why so many now want us dead. What did we do to deserve this? Many of our mid-east puppets have used the U.S. as their whipping boy to deflect criticism from their own oppressive regimes and our tolerance of this over the past decades will now haunt our foreign policy for many years to come. If we want to stop terrorism we need to fix our foreign policy.

1 0

ACTION: Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001
by Matthew Gaylor 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

<http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/action.html> URGENT ACTION ALERT The Administration's proposed Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001 is currently scheduled for mark-up by the House Judiciary Committee tomorrow (Tuesday) morning. It is critical that consideration of the legislation be delayed until the Committee holds comprehensive public hearings on the serious civil liberties issues the proposal implicates. The Committee is currently planning to proceed to mark-up after testimony only from the Attorney General and a short, informal "briefing" on the issues that raise constitutional concerns. There is an urgent need for concerned organizations and individuals to contact members of the Judiciary Committee and urge them to delay consideration of the bill until its impact on civil liberties can be carefully and fully considered. These contacts need to be made IMMEDIATELY to delay tomorrow morning's scheduled mark-up. Committee members and their contact information follows. It would be particularly useful if constituents of these members express their concern. Please forward this alert to your members, affiliated organizations and appropriate mailing lists. Judiciary Committee List Name, party, state, phone, fax, e-mail: James Sensenbrenner, Chair, R-WI, (202) 225-5101, (202) 225-3190, sensen09(a)mail.house.gov Henry Hyde, R-IL, (202) 225-4561, (202) 225-1166. John Conyers Jr., D-MI, (202) 225-5126, (202) 225-0072, john.conyers(a)mail.house.gov George Gekas, R-PA, (202) 225-4315, (202) 225-8440, askgeorge(a)mail.house.gov Barney Frank, D-MA, (202) 225-5931, (202) 225-0182 Howard Coble, R-NC, (202) 225-3065, (202) 225-8611, howard.coble(a)mail.house.gov Howard Berman, D-CA, (202) 225-4695, (202) 225-3196, Howard.Berman(a)mail.house.gov Lamar Smith, R-TX, (202) 225-4236, (202) 225-8628 Rick Boucher, D-VA, (202) 225-3861, (202) 225-0442, ninthnet(a)mail.house.gov Elton Gallegly, R-CA, (202) 225-5811, (202) 225-1100 Jerrold Nadler, D-NY, (202) 225-5635, (202) 225-6923, jerrold.nadler(a)mail.house.gov Bob Goodlatte, R-VA, (202) 225-5431, (202) 225-9681, talk2bob(a)mail.house.gov Bobby Scott, D-VA, (202) 225-8351, (202) 225-8354 Steve Chabot, R-OH, (202) 225-2216, (202) 225-3012 Mel Watt, D-NC, (202) 225-1510, (202) 225-1512, nc12.public(a)mail.house.gov Bob Barr, R-GA, (202) 225-2931, (202) 225-2944, barr.ga(a)mail.house.gov Zoe Lofgren, D-CA, (202) 225-3072, (202) 225-3336, zoe(a)lofgren.house.gov William Jenkins, R-TN, (202) 225-6356, (202) 225-5714 Sheila Jackson Lee, D-TX, (202) 225-3816, (202) 225-3317, tx18(a)lee.house.gov Christopher Cannon, R-UT, (202) 225-7751, (202) 225-5629, cannon.ut03(a)mail.house.gov Maxine Waters, D-CA, (202) 225-2201, (202) 225-7854 Lindsey Graham, R-SC, (202) 225-5301, (202) 225-3216 Marty Meehan, D-MA, (202) 225-3411, (202) 226-0771, martin.meehan(a)mail.house.gov Spencer Bachus, R-AL, (202) 225-4921, (202) 225-2082 William Delahunt, D-MA, (202) 225-3111, (202) 225-5658, william.delahunt(a)mail.house.gov John Hostettler, R-IN, (202) 225-4636, (202) 225-3284, john.hostettler(a)mail.house.gov Robert Wexler, D-FL, (202) 225-3001, (202) 225-5974 Mark Green, R-WI, (202) 225-5665, (202) 225-5729, mark.green(a)mail.house.gov Tammy Baldwin, D-W, (202) 225-2906, (202) 225-6942, tammy.baldwin(a)mail.house.gov Ric Keller, R-FL, (202) 225-2176, (202) 225-0999 Anthony David Weiner, D-NY, (202) 225-6616, (202) 226-7253 Darrell Issa, R-CA, (202) 225-3906, (202) 225-3303 Adam Schiff, D-CA, (202) 225-4176, (202) 225-5828 Melissa Hart, R-PA, (202) 225-2565, (202) 226-2274, melissa.hart(a)mail.house.gov Jeff Flake, R-AZ, (202) 225-2635, (202) 226-4386 ************************************************************************** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt(a)coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ **************************************************************************

1 0

Re: RE: Expectation of privacy in public?
by Robert 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

----- Original Message ----- From: "Trei, Peter" <ptrei(a)rsasecurity.com> To: <cypherpunks(a)lne.com> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 1:24 PM > > Cal. Penal Code ' 631, 632 (Deering 1999): It is a crime > in California to intercept or eavesdrop upon any > confidential communication, including a telephone call or > wire communication, without the consent of all parties. > It is not a crime for an agency of another country to eavesdrop on you as long as they are physically located outside the U.S. Similarly, it is not illegal for a US agency to intercept messages in another country, as long as they do it from outside the that country. This is how (if it really does exist) the Echelon network works. Agencies in Canada, England, Australia etc. intercept messages in the U.S. and then pass on the intelligence to their U.S. counterparts. This information sharing by-passes legal jurisdictional limits. Robert Andrews Is your personal data exposed? http://www.PrivacyExposed.com

4 3

Re: [silk] Re: Avoid hard targets tomorrow (fwd)
by rishab＠dxm.org 25 Sep '01

25 Sep '01

hey tim, maybe you remember me from the early days of cypherpunks(a)toad.com. just wanted to butt in here and reply to your post which i saw forwarded to some other list... it beats me why americans and the western media generally likes to get worried about the "most dangerous spot in the world" and "next nuclear warzone" that is south asia, given that everyone in india and pakistan knows neither country will use any nuclear weapons. the border population density is too great in both countries and population centres close enough that any major attack by one country on the other will have a direct fallout on both (taking delivery range into account). besides, neither govt is or has been remotely close to dreaming of nuclear attacks, though pakistan occasionally talks about them in the hope of getting america worried enough to get involved in the dispute over kashmir. indians and pakistanis don't worry about nuclear war because we know that the nuclear tests were for attention - india has had the Bomb since 1974, and pakistan has been known to have it for a decade. india carried out the tests because it felt the us was ignoring india (media coverage of "asia" typically limited itself to east asia) and wanted more attention. obviously pakistan had to show that it was as good as its neighbour. that's it. india's govt has been quietly (and cynically) satisfied at these events, because now, as some people have said, "the US finally wants to do something about the terrorists and training camps India's been complaining about for years." india won't get involved in pakistan's troubles. rather, it hopes the US will somehow manage to shut down the training camps and networks which harbour groups that attack india... and if that puts pakistan's govt in a tight situation, well that's just a nice little bonus isn't it. -rishab > From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> > To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com > Subject: Re: Avoid hard targets tomorrow > If the growing street protests/riots in Pakistan (Pesawar, Karachi, > Islamabad) trend toward a new ultra-Islamic, pro-Taliban government, I > expect India to strike first. India cannot allow a nuclear state on its > border with Taliban leanings. India will knock out Pakistan's nuclear > capabilities if it can. > A nuclear war between India and Pakistan will utterly dwarf recent > events, will crash the Dow to 1000, and will have other profound > consequences.

2 1

End the FAA Killings
by keyser-soze＠hushmail.com 24 Sep '01

24 Sep '01

The U.S. has declared war upon terrorists and those countries that support terrorists. That means that the U.S. has declared war upon itself. This year, the U.S. continued a Clinton-era policy and committed more than $100 million in foreign aid to Afghanistan — making us the country's largest humanitarian donor. In May 2001, Secretary of State Colin Powell announced an additional $43 million in relief, which includes 65,000 tons of wheat, vegetable oil, blended foods, health programs and shelter. When the Soviet Union occupied Afghanistan, the CIA trained Osama Bin Laden and his ilk in how to commit acts of terrorism and the U.S. provided financing and arms. http://www.zolatimes.com/V5.39/faa_killings.html

1 0

Re: FC: Sen. Hollings plans to introduce DMCA sequel:
by keyser-soze＠hushmail.com 24 Sep '01

24 Sep '01

At 04:58 PM 9/24/2001 -0700, Tim May wrote: On Monday, September 24, 2001, at 03:08 PM, Thomas Leavitt wrote: >>I'm tired of hearing my fellow Americans referred to as cowards, weaklings, sheep, ignorant, easily mislead - this is a profoundly undemocratic sentiment, the same kind of crap spewed by totalitarian and authoritarian types from the far left and the far right as justification for abandonment of the democratic process and the use of force to impose their ideology on the rest of us. >We are not for "democracy." Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. We are not a democracy, but a repubic (pun intended). The primary responsibility of our elected officials is to protect the minorities from the majority and to preserve protect and defend the constitution. Many representatives clearly show they have at best a poor understanding of the Constitution, the words and intentions of the framers. Some even show disdain for it. How many Congressmen do you think ever read Thomas Paine's works? >Crypto anarchy is about undermining democracy, causing the house of cards to collapse. >>I refuse to give up on our way of life, my fellow citizens, or to write off my government as completely and irredemably lost. >You are welcome to "refuse to give up on our way of life." Many others over the centuries have similarly refused to give up on royalism...I hear there are even clubs where people pretend to be various archdukes and viscounts, and even fan clubs for the grandchildren of royals deposed 75 years ago. >Maybe there will be fan clubs for "democracy supporters." Maybe they will even launch little wars agains the royalists. >Democracy will soon be consigned to the dustbin of history. I hope representative government is not.

1 0

British SAS in Afghanistan
by Neil Johnson 24 Sep '01

24 Sep '01

A couple of British Newspapers are reporting that a British SAS unit exchanged fire with Taleban soldiers in Afghanistan. The Herlad Sun: http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,2919672%255E661,00 .html >From the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1559000/1559084.stm Interesting. - Neil M. Johnson mailto:njohnsn@iowatelecom.net

1 0

Re: Fwd: Re: FC: Sen. Hollings plans to introduce DMCA sequel: The SSSCA
by Thomas Leavitt 24 Sep '01

24 Sep '01

>From: keyser-soze(a)hushmail.com >To: cypherpunks(a)lne.com >Subject: Fwd: Re: FC: Sen. Hollings plans to introduce DMCA sequel: The >SSSCA >Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 12:06:53 -0700 > > >----- Forwarded Message ----- > >From: Someone > >> > >>Working to keep our neighbors awake and informed is our best hope, in my > >>view - that is the only way democracy will ever work. > > > >Historically this has often failed (e.g., the lack of outcry against >Japanese internment camps). Neighboors are willing to sell their liberty >and their neighbors at the drop of a hat if someone in government promises >them greater security, even though these same liars failed them time and >time again. > > > >Since the New Deal Americans and corporations have become increasingly >reliant on government to provide for them, shield them from their own poor >judgement and folly and transfer the responsibility to the rest of us. >(Citizens of a like mind should structure upcoming tax filings to deduct >Congress' largess to the airlines and others). We cannot depend on these >cowards and weaklings. > > > >You'll notice that no Declaration of War was formally given. Even so >Congress has moved to curtail civil liberties. From my perspective both >life and liberty are equally dear. Those that attempt to take either I >will treat the same. > > > >Its time to water the tree... I'm tired of hearing my fellow Americans referred to as cowards, weaklings, sheep, ignorant, easily mislead - this is a profoundly undemocratic sentiment, the same kind of crap spewed by totalitarian and authoritarian types from the far left and the far right as justification for abandonment of the democratic process and the use of force to impose their ideology on the rest of us. It is the cry of someone unwilling to do the hard work of actually speaking to their fellow and convincing them of the rightness of the cause being professed; the frustrated rant of someone who is convinced he or she has "The Truth" on their side - the same opinion shared by Timothy McVeigh, Osma Bin Ladin, and folks of a similar ilk. I won't deny that I think our government is unduly influenced by factions (from certain labor unions to untold numbers of corporations) with financial and other interests at stake, but my answer is to become a more dedicated citizen, to work harder to educate my fellow citizens and elected representatives about what I think is right and just. I refuse to give up on our way of life, my fellow citizens, or to write off my government as completely and irredemably lost. To do so is criminally irresponsible, in my view. *** I encourage everyone to read this book - it says more about the strengths and weaknesses of this country (and more importantly, the "cowards" and "weaklings" who make it work) than anything I've ever read. It is written by an Arab-American and a profound patriot, someone whose life represents the American dream in all it's glory and gore. America, More Than a Country by Salom Rizk Book Description Salom Rizk, author of this autobiography, was born in 1909 in a tiny poverty-stricken town in Syria. Two brothers and an uncle in Iowa paid his passage to the United States, but he arrived penniless, homeless and with no knowledge of the language. The story of his incredible experience in self-education and his rise to one of the most sought-after and inspirational speakers on American lecture platforms is contained in "America, more than a Country." http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1564922979/qid=999899722/002-6041749… The Chicago Tribune "This is the kind of book you pick up to skim through and find yourself reading every word avidly...It's excellent to read aloud to the family -much more effective than pompous essays of freedom." Regards, Thomas Leavitt -- Thomas Leavitt -- thomasleavitt(a)hotmail.com; ICQ #16455919 http://www.internetmanifesto.org/ http://www.sczenkarate.org/ http://www.space.org/ http://www.gnosis.org/ Wired since 1981. Internet enabled since 1990. Web enabled since 1993. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

3 2

The Guillotine Is Not Obsolete
by Subcommander Bob 24 Sep '01

24 Sep '01

At 04:33 PM 9/24/01 -0700, Eric Cordian wrote: >I wonder how many people on this list would qualify as "sympathetic to >terrorist causes," a very vague phrase which could mean almost anything. >> >By MARC HUMBERT >Associated Press Writer > >ALBANY, N.Y. -- One third of New Yorkers favor establishing internment >camps for "individuals who authorities identify as being sympathetic >to terrorist causes," according to a poll from the Siena College >Research Institute. So if we propose that maybe, after doing the requisite cratering, we *do* leave the arabs and the rest of them to their own family feuds, we're sympathizers? How about if we propose executing the Saudi "kings" and making the fucking place a protectorate (letting their women drive cars for a change)? Where does that put us? Can we get the Budweiser concession at Mecca, or do the Czechs get that? CivilEPunks: How many megatons would it take to extend the Mediterranean to the Gulf?

1 0