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Plan 9 Products
by Jim Choate 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

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FBI's Trial Balloon- Torture
by Matthew Gaylor 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

[Note from Matthew Gaylor: It is an established procedure of a government to first hint at something that they are considering to gauge the reaction. This has got to be one of the more disturbing items I've read over the course of the last couple of weeks. The US constitution and bill of rights recognizes, not grants rights. Any FBI agent who considers torturing a suspect should be fired and then prosecuted for conspiracy to violate civil rights. Such an agent is also a traitor to the US constitution. FBI agents when they take their oath pledge their allegiance to the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. Any law enforcement officer who tortures suspects or carts suspects off to be tortured in a foreign land certainly deserve to be considered Un-American and an enemy of the rule of law.] <http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/specials/attacked/A27748- 2001Oct20.html> Silence of 4 Terror Probe Suspects Poses Dilemma By Walter Pincus Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, October 21, 2001; Page A06 FBI and Justice Department investigators are increasingly frustrated by the silence of jailed suspected associates of Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network, and some are beginning to that say that traditional civil liberties may have to be cast aside if they are to extract information about the Sept. 11 attacks and terrorist plans. [...] Said one experienced FBI agent involved in the investigation: "We are known for humanitarian treatment, so basically we are stuck. . . . Usually there is some incentive, some angle to play, what you can do for them. But it could get to that spot where we could go to pressure . . . where we won't have a choice, and we are probably getting there." Among the alternative strategies under discussion are using drugs or pressure tactics, such as those employed occasionally by Israeli interrogators, to extract information. Another idea is extraditing the suspects to allied countries where security services sometimes employ threats to family members or resort to torture. Under U.S. law, interrogators in criminal cases can lie to suspects, but information obtained by physical pressure, inhumane treatment or torture cannot be used in a trial. In addition, the government interrogators who used such tactics could be sued by the victim or charged with battery by the government. [...] ************************************************************************** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: freematt(a)coil.com with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ **************************************************************************

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RESEND: FBI considers torture as suspects stay silent
by Incognito Innominatus 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

FBI considers torture as suspects stay silent http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001350021-2001364909,00.html AMERICAN investigators are considering resorting to harsher interrogation techniques, including torture, after facing a wall of silence from jailed suspected members of Osama bin Ladens al-Qaeda network, according to a report yesterday. More than 150 people who were picked up after September 11 remain in custody, with four men the focus of particularly intense scrutiny. But investigators have found the usual methods have failed to persuade any of them to talk. Options being weighed include truth drugs, pressure tactics and extraditing the suspects to countries whose security services are more used to employing a heavy-handed approach during interrogations. Were into this thing for 35 days and nobody is talking. Frustration has begun to appear, a senior FBI official told The Washington Post. Under US law, evidence extracted using physical pressure or torture is inadmissible in court and interrogators could also face criminal charges for employing such methods. However, investigators suggested that the time might soon come when a truth serum, such as sodium pentothal, would be deemed an acceptable tool for interrogators. The public pressure for results in the war on terrorism might also persuade the FBI to encourage the countries of suspects to seek their extradition, in the knowledge that they could be given a much rougher reception in jails back home. One of the four key suspects is Zacarias Moussaoui, a French Moroccan, suspected of being a twentieth hijacker who failed to make it on board the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania. Moussaoui was detained after he acted suspiciously at a Minnesota flying school, requesting lessons in how to steer a plane but not how to take off or land. Both Morocco and France are regarded as having harsher interrogation methods than the United States. The investigators have been disappointed that the usual incentives to break suspects, such as promises of shorter sentences, money, jobs and new lives in the witness protection programme, have failed to break the silence. We are known for humanitarian treatment, so basically we are stuck. Usually there is some incentive, some angle to play, what you can do for them. But it could get to that spot where we could go to pressure . . . where we dont have a choice, and we are probably getting there, an FBI agent involved in the investigation told the paper. The other key suspects being held in New York are Mohammed Jaweed Azmath and Ayub Ali Khan, Indians who were caught the day after the attacks travelling with false passports, craft knives such as those used in the hijackings and hair dye. Nabil Almarabh, a Boston taxi driver alleged to have links to al-Qaeda, is also being held. Some legal experts believe that the US Supreme Court, which has a conservative tilt, might be prepared to support curtailing the civil liberties of prisoners in terrorism cases. However, a warning that torture should be avoided came from Robert Blitzer, a former head of the FBIs counter-terrorism section. He said that the practice goes against every grain in my body. Chances are you are going to get the wrong person and risk damage or killing them. In all, about 800 people have been rounded up since the attacks, most of whom are expected to be found to be innocent. Investigators believe there could be hundreds of people linked to al-Qaeda living in the US, and the Bush Administration has issued a warning that more attacks are probably being planned. Newsweek magazine reports today that Mohammed Atta, the suspected ringleader who died in the first plane to hit the World Trade Centre, had been looking into hitting an aircraft carrier. Investigators retracing his movements found that he visited the huge US Navy base at Norfolk, Virginia, in February and April this year.

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Why WAIT??? Refinance NOW!!!
by justjumping＠yahoo.com 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

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Re: Another precious moment from shrub...
by Nomen Nescio 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

The really peculiar thing about Bush's speech was that while he was giving his war talk, you could see through the window behind him that people were flying kites in the park. How bizarre to juxtapose the fragile innocence of kite-flying with the harsh reality of warfare. And anyone notice that Rumsfield is losing it? At his last press conference he was shaky, he wasn't answering the questions, he was trailing off and losing his train of thought. Reminiscent of Reagan in his second term.

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by Freeadultmembership12s＠yahoo.com 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

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Re: Another precious moment from shrub...
by Bill Stewart 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

At 12:30 AM 10/20/2001 -1000, Reese wrote: >At 01:51 AM 10/20/01 -0700, jamesd(a)echeque.com wrote: > >In Latin America one Soviet sponsored tyranny was overthrown, and replaced > >by democracy, > >Name? If this is the Soviet sponsored tyranny that replaced 40 years of "He may be an SOB, but he's OUR SOB" brutal dictatorship, it's Nicaragua. And the US government spent $9/voter (or maybe vote, I don't remember which) on campaign funding for the election where Chamorro beat Ortega - that's far beyond the amounts spent in normal US elections - plus they'd funded military resistance and civil war against the Sandinistas, so the economy was seriously damaged not only by Marxist stupidity and traditional cronyism and corruption, which would have done a number on it all by themselves, but by the need to spend large amounts on the military, the destruction caused by both sides of the conflict, and the diversion of otherwise-productive people into war, and of course by the serious limitations on international trade caused by the US military mining their harbors.

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Ridge is lying, spores are pro
by Khoder bin Hakkin 22 Oct '01

22 Oct '01

Consider these two reports: Bozo Ridge downplaying the weaponization of the spores, contradicted by another source; and the Feebs questioning NJ-mailbox-locals about knowing "chemists". Makes one think the Quality is Very High and Ridge is lying. We have always been at war with Oceania bin Laden. In Washington, Ridge told reporters the anthrax analyzed in the United States had not been ``weaponized,'' meaning it had not been manipulated to facilitate inhalation by potential victims. Even so, one participant in a conference call for lawmakers said Robert Gibbs, a Defense Department official, reported the anthrax was of ``relative high quality'' and that ``there is an effort to downplay and not promote the abilities of the people doing this.'' The participant spoke on condition of anonymity. Samantha Pae, 34, said she, her fiance, and her fiance's mother were interviewed by FBI officers, who asked them how long they had lived in the area and whether they had noticed any suspicious activity or observed vehicles with out-of-state plates. The agents also asked them to provide their Social Security numbers, she said. "They hit every house in the development area today," she said, adding that she had not seen any strange people or unusual behavior. Charlotte Kaplan Piepszak, who has lived in the neighborhood for 30 years, said FBI agents asked similar questions of her. "And then they asked if I knew any chemists," she said. http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011020/ts/attacks_anthrax_95.html http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-102001anthrax.story

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Beefing up security at America's dams and reservoirs
by Nomen Nescio 21 Oct '01

21 Oct '01

National Public Radio (NPR) Morning Edition (11:00 AM AM ET) Thursday, Oct. 18, 2001 Beefing up security at America's dams and reservoirs BOB EDWARDS, host: This is MORNING EDITION from NPR News. I'm Bob Edwards. Security is tight at many of the nation's 70,000 reservoirs and dams. There's concern about water contamination from chemical or biological agents, and about possible attempts to breach the dams. NPR's Howard Berkes reports. HOWARD BERKES reporting: All across the country now, guards are on patrol and checkpoints are in place in an attempt to keep terrorists away from dams. Hoover Dam, near Las Vegas, has a major regional highway straddling its crest, but roadblocks as far as 20 miles away hold trucks, buses and big RVs back. And floating patrols behind and below the dam keep boats away. Bob Walsh is spokesman for the US Bureau of Reclamation, which manages Hoover Dam. Mr. BOB WALSH (US Bureau of Reclamation): You don't want large vehicles carrying explosives,! for example, to be allowed across the dam. Gasoline tankers, for example, are prohibited from crossing the dam at this point as well; any type of a hazardous material. BERKES: The September 11th attacks prompted similar security at some of the bureau's 500 other dams in 17 Western states. John Keyes is the commissioner of the Bureau of Reclamation. Commissioner JOHN KEYES (US Bureau of Reclamation): There is no specific threat against any of our specific facilities, let me put it that way. But potential for terrorist activity is being provided for. We are at a high level of security at all of our critical facilities, both to protect against damage to the facilities themselves and to the water supplies. BERKES: The risk at these facilities is enormous. And it's not just from flooding downstream if a dam is breached or fails. Sixty-one million people depend on the structures for water, including farmers producing 60 percent of the nation's vegetables. Bureau dams generate ! enough power for six million homes. They're a tempting target for terrorists, says Tim Brown, a senior analyst at globalsecurity.org. Mr. TIM BROWN (Senior Analyst, Globalsecurity.org) The entire economy in the Southwest is dependent upon the electricity and the irrigation that the dams afford. And the loss of any or all of the dams along the Colorado River Basin would cripple the economy of the Southwest for years to come, and could have potentially significant effects on the US economy in the long run. BERKES: That's also true for other regions and hundreds of communities in all parts of the country with critical links to the nation's 70,000 dams. Most were built long before terrorism was considered a strong domestic threat, notes Bill Bingham, a dam designer and engineer. Bingham is also president of the US Society on Dams, a national group focusing on engineering and safety. Mr. BILL BINGHAM (US Society of Dams): Our dams in the past have not been designed for severe! blast incidents like we would see with a truckload of explosives across the top a dam, or an aircraft loaded with fuel crashing into the downstream face of the dam. I don't think that design criteria encompasses those kinds of issues. BERKES: So it's unclear, Bingham says, whether dams can be breached by such attacks. He's calling for a national risk assessment to determine dam vulnerabilities and ways to protect them. Mr. BINGHAM: Making sure that you've got the properties as secure as you can make them; limiting access, and doing regular patrols and those types of things. And having a current emergency action plan in the event that there would be some kind of an attack on one of these facilities. BERKES: John Keyes of the US Bureau of Reclamations says he's already accessing the risk at bureau dams, while also bolstering security. Mr. KEYES: Terrorism is nothing new to the security for our facilities. We've deal with Earth Liberation Front and the ecoterrorism folks f! or several years. We have prepared for contingencies involving contamination of reservoir water. We have emergency preparedness plans for all of our facilities that deal with inundation downstream. We have a comprehensive dam safety program, as well as a general security program for protection of those vital infrastructures. Keyes acknowledges one problem. The bureau has only one armed security force at Hoover Dam. The rest of its dams depend on unarmed guards and voluntary help from state and local police who have limited authority on federal property. Congress is considering legislation to address that. Bill Bingham of the US Society of Dams, worries more about state, local and private structures. Mr. BINGHAM: There are many privately owned or even publicly owned--non-federal publicly owned dams that do not have emergency action plans, or security plans. BERKES: Bingham says some dam owners don't have the money or staff for more security, and he says states have inconsi! stent requirements for emergency action plans. Still, state, local and private dam managers say they're bolstering their security with state and local police. Howard Berkes, NPR News.

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Re: used lab equiptment
by keyser-soze＠hushmail.com 21 Oct '01

21 Oct '01

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 21:01:40 +0200 (MET DST), Eugene Leitl <Eugene.Leitl(a)lrz.uni-muenchen.de> wrote: >On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 keyser-soze(a)hushmail.com wrote: > >> A specialized ultrasonic device is not required to produce micron fine >> aerosol powders. All one needs is a used and cleaned print head > >In fact not, pressure waves strong enough to aerosol liquid will also >cause cavitation, resulting in heating and destruction of material. At ultrasonic frequencies this can be a problem. At lower freq, generally not. When combined with the electrospray method which provides significant "pull" of the droplet from the nozzle reducing required piezo pressure and consequent cell wall damage. I've not tried it with anthrax but it can work well with ecoli. > >> assembly and its piezo pulse circuitry. Nozzle apertures are >> typically 25-50 micron and if the material is suspended, in weak > >Ever tried pushing a bacterial suspension through a printer head >(processivity set aside)? It will clog it up in no time. No, but I have through a micro pipette and if the suspension is dilute (as I noted) it works fine. > >> concentration, in a solution which quickly evaporates but doesn't harm >> the spores it should produce moderate quantities of fine powder >> quickly. > >Um, why don't we quit armchair microbiology, and stick to what we can >best: produce lots of uninformed speculations? Oh. Indeed. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: Hush 2.0 wmAEARECACAFAjvTbecZHGtleXNlci1zb3plQGh1c2htYWlsLmNvbQAKCRAg4ui5IoBV n2XIAJ9zhuCbM1ZXBxNb6veOqN6WpXX1AgCfdGBibYi4UZuqxhR4ueyhwi4sd8I= =4D6c -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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