- cypherpunks-legacy - lists.cpunks.org

cypherpunks at ietf
by Bob Bruen, MIT Lab for Nuclear Science 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

I thought the following mail might be of interest. It's not my doing. Bob ========================================================================= From: SMTP%"MEYERUSA(a)aol.com" 30-NOV-1995 10:25:39.59 To: BRUEN CC: Subj: Re: DISCUSSION FOR IETF DALLAS Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 08:49:15 -0500 Sender:ietf-request@IETF.CNRI.Reston.VA.US From: MEYERUSA(a)aol.com Message-ID: <951130084914_120843907(a)mail06.mail.aol.com> To: rgm3(a)is.chrysler.com cc: ietf(a)CNRI.Reston.VA.US, SteveCase(a)aol.com Subject: Re: DISCUSSION FOR IETF DALLAS THE WWW MUST BE CONSUMER FRIENDLY IF IT IS TO SURVIVE. THE AVERAGE CONSUMER THRU A PC, OR A "DEDICATED WEB TERMINAL ON TOP OF THEIR TV SET", MUST BE ABLE TO USE THE WEB IN THE FUTURE TO: 1. SEARCH FOR CONSUMER GOODS; ORDER CONSUMER GOODS. 2. USE THE WEB FOR TELEPHONE COMMUNICATIONS AND E-MAIL 3. DOWNLOAD TIME SHIFT AUDIO & VIDEO 4. DOWLOAD MOVIES, SOFTWARE, AND P.P.V. EVENTS 5. HOOK ON-LINE TO VIDEO & AUDIO THE WWW AND THE ON-LINE SERVICES MUST BE ABLE TO DIAL OUT TO THE CONSUMER ALSO. OUR BIGGEST FUTURE PROBLEM IS THAT WE CAN NOT LET BILL GATES, NOR THE TELEPHONE COMPANIES, NOR THE CABLE TV COMPANIES, NOR THE MADISON AVENUE ADVERTISING AGENCIES GET CONTROL OF THE WWW. OUR CURRENT PROBLEM IS THAT THE AVERAGE CONSUMER CAN NOT COMPLETE AN ACCURATE SEARCH ON THE WEB. COMPANIES MUST BE ABLE TO PROTECT THEIR TRADEMARKS AND SERVICE MARKS, AND TO EMBED EVERY POSSIBLE KEYWORD IN THEIR SITE SO THAT IN THE FUTURE A CONSUMER COULD ENTER AT THE SEARCH LINE: "SHOW ALL DEALERS IN BALTIMORE THAT SELL CHRYSLER MINI-VANS" AND AN ACCURATE SEACH OF THE WEB WILL BE RETURNED. AT THIS POINT SO MANY CYBERPUNKS HAVE EMBEDDED SO MUCH GARBAGE ON THE WEB, THAT YOU CAN NOT COMPLETE AN ACCURATE SEARCH. OUR COMPANY HAS BEEN ASKED BY THE NEW YORK AUTO SHOW TO CREATE THE MOST HIGHTECH VIRTUAL REALITY MOTION SIMULATOR THEATRE FOR THE 1996 NEW YORK AUTO SHOW. DURING OUR RESEARCH, WE ENTERED "NEW YORK AUTO SHOW" IN OUR WEB CRAWLER (AMERICA ON-LINE). YOU COULD NOT BELIEVE ALL OF THE GARBAGE THAT WAS RETURNED FROM OUR SEARCH. ADDITIONALLY FOR EXAMPLE, IF ON AMERICA ON-LINE YOU NEED TO SEND AN E-MAIL TO DONALD TRUMP OR TO AOL'S STEVE CASE, WHEN YOU SEARCH THE AOL MEMBER DATABASE, WHO IS THE REAL DONALD TRUMP OR THE REAL STEVE CASE. IN SUMMARY, WHAT NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED AT IETF IN DALLAS NEXT WEEK IS A STANDARD THAT PROTECTS TRADEMARKS AND SERVICE MARKS, AND ALSO A POLICING AGENCY THAT WILL DETERMINE THAT DONALD TRUMP IS AT DONALD TRUMP@, CHRYSLER IS AT CHRYSLERY@ BILL GATES IS AT BILL GATES@, ETC. BUT MORE IMPORTANT, WE NEED TO CLEANUP THE TRASH THAT THE CYBER-PUNKS ARE PLACING ON THE WEB. ED MEYER

1 0

No Subject
by owner-cypherpunks＠toad.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Wayne Madsen wrote somewhere: > A knowledgeable government source claims that > the NSA has concluded agreements with [...] Netscape to > permit the introduction of the means to prevent the anonymity of > Internet electronic mail, [...] I suspect this may actually mean that they're pushing Netscape to incorporate cryptographic authentication into browser email, which I think is a useful development. I'm not aware of any public remailers previously operated by Netscape Communications Corp. that have now shut down. ;) At any rate, it's an excuse for me to ask some questions: (0) I'm not aware of any class library objects or methods in stand-alone Java for calling the local mail transport agent. Is there any class library support in Java+{Navigator, HotJava, Mosaic, NetCruiser, the AOL web tool, etc.} for applet calls to the local mail agent that's configured in the browser ? I would prefer not to reimplement SMTP using the Socket class in my own applets. Ideally I'd like to have an applet that presents a form with some entry boxes and check boxes, quantizes and encrypts the input according to the check box settings, and spews the resulting byte streams to the MTA. (1) As I recall, I used to be able to set (as an Option) the path and name of the local MTA (e.g. /usr/lib/sendmail) in an earlier version of Netscape. That seems to have disappeared in Navigator 2.0. Is there indeed no longer a way to set that ? It occurs to me that we could have achieved partial integration of remailing into Navigator quite cheaply with that option. Comments from Sun and/or Netscape and/or anyone else would be welcome. Thanks :) -Lewis "You're always disappointed, nothing seems to keep you high -- drive your bargains, push your papers, win your medals, fuck your strangers; don't it leave you on the empty side ?" (Joni Mitchell, 1972)

1 0

Bork
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Once-a, zeere-a ves thees keed vhu, tuuk, a treep tu seengepure-a, und bruooght elung hees sprey peeent.... Und vhee.... he-a feenelly ceme-a beck. He-a, hed... cune-a merks ell oofer hees buttum.... he-a seeed thet is ves frum vhere-a zee verdee vhecked it su... herd..... Bork Bork Bork!

1 0

Re: [Rant!] Death by praise Re: Netscape gives in to key escrow
by KJC＠cityscape.co.uk 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

> > >On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, Jay Holovacs wrote: > >> On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, Timothy C. May wrote: >> > Can Netscape continue to prosper? This latest issue won't kill it, >> >> I suspect this will unfortunately help. Stockholders are interested in >> profits, not principles. Co-oping with the feds will help Netscape get to >> the commercial market sooner, and most customers, sadly don't give a damn >> about privacy (or don't understand). > ><Rant mode on> >Clipper and family are vampires; shine some light on them and they're dead. >Witness the public ridicule of the FBI 1% scheme. Compare that to the near >mainstream silence about DT. The last round of Clipper was wonderful, for >a while in '94 we had Time sounding like Brock Meeks. > >If Jim Clark really does mean this nonsense then I hope he does a Dorothy >Denning and takes his show on the road (sorry Jeff). This is simply >easy fodder for journalists without a story, totally black and white >cheap shot at the gov. While people don't give a damn about their privacy, >they sure do get mad when they're shown how easy it is to take away. >They *hate* hearing the $ cost. > >Maybe some of the people on this list with higher profiles than myself should >start defending Clipper and GAK as loudly and stupidly as possible. I've >grown dead tired of trying to get anyone around me interested in pgp, >remailers and whatnot. Reverse psycho sounds a lot easier: > >"Noted counterterrorism expert Timothy May was quoted on Connie Chung Live >last night as saying "Clipper, GAK and CTHULHU666 are a hundred billion >dollar investment in your national security. Only through complete wiretapping >will we save our nation's children from violent cigarette smokers, tax >cheaters, unlicensed pit-bull owners, Tax 'n Spend Liberals, murderous Nation >of Islam Dope Pushers, audiophiles, christians, fat people, OJ and >jaywalkers on the infohighway." -USA Today" > >(Apologies. You may now killfile me with a clear conscience.) > >If you can't beat 'em, subvert 'em. > > > As a _very_ low profile member of this list I thought a futile gesture was needed at this point: *I agree with you* I've been trying to interest the BBC in the U.K. in pgp, clipper et al for ages - I give up!.- BTW- after 'Britland' MPs posted hear a while back I thought _maybe_ we'd hear more.Will the last one to leave Grate Britain please switch out the lights! kc ------------------------------------------------------ Fingerprint:OF 3B IE 6A 8D 14 EC 9B 75 9B FB A2 E8 35 FE Finger: .plan + public key -> af91(a)ftp.cityscape.co.uk http://www.gold.net/users/af91/kjc.htm "...and now...five in a row by Whitney Houston" ------------------------------------------------------

1 0

Re: The future will be easy to use
by attila 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, P. Rajaram wrote: > On Nov 29, 10:25pm, attila wrote: > > Subject: Re: The future will be easy to use > > OK, I have not seen it (like I said, I will get it) or read ipsec. > > > > However, despite the group ego, Sun _does_ listen and Sun does wish to > > be the leader. If the rest of ipsec group has a specific list, maybe it > > needs to presented higher up the pole. > > There are different groups within Sun. > The people pushing SKIP don't talk much with the group building IPv6. > that's a given. NIBM (not invented by ME) syndrome. That is what needs to stop. however, Sun has been playing the game recently of introducing an early product, then coming on with a more standard product. that does not change the fact the twogroups need to talk, and someone needs to coordiante resources. Nothing wrong if SKIP shakes out a few details as they implement, but then it needs to go to the standards.

1 0

List of reliable remailers
by anonymous-remailer＠shell.portal.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Raph Levien wrote: > Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator: > (robo syrinx c2) > (flame hacktic replay) > (alumni portal) Anything more specific on the above info? robo, syrinx, c2 all running on c2.org alumni, portal run by Hal Finney hacktic, replay run on xs4all / by Alex de Joode? ok so far, but flame is xs4all/de Joode as well? flame used to be: Slovenian Anonymous Remailer <remailer(a)flame.sinet.org> Does the fact that it is now listed along with hacktic and replay now imply that it is no longer / never was in Slovenia? The reason for asking is that jurisdictions are interesting properties for remailers. The more jurisdictions available the better the legal morass can be created by remailing through 101 different jurisdictions. Speaking of which, these new additions: ford <remailer(a)bi-node.zerberus.de> ecafe <cpunk(a)remail.ecafe.org> are welcome aditions both being in Europe (Germany, and UK respectively) Any other European/Australasian cypherpunks care to add a remailer in their jurisdiction? Alice de 'nonymous ... [just giving the acquired nym a work out, and I wanted to ask the Q anyway, so I thought I may as well flesh this Nym out, and give it a better rep than the impostor who refuses to sign posts :-) Again, anything that isn't signed isn't from me.] ...just another one of those... P.S. This post is in the public domain. C. S. U. M. O. C. L. U. N. E. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBML3jzIbu8OQjKS7RAQFIQQP/ShGx18pfAT0TZcsAaY0T/LRuaXkE+C+k 9lL6mXo/FY1bHDXFUsNkb4wjJx6RujyMRWL6eI7T/ph531CY2wYaBzVdMXHjPy8m kCMSZai08WlLJboe06tlZCGHvpDEqGPATZd1VZoulFSD1F9Ughhidspvp9/jqIR8 q/cZbGkWSrY= =vvNf -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 1

Re: Netscape, Corporations, and GAK Support
by tcmay＠got.net 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 10:09 PM 11/30/95, Timothy C. May wrote: >To secure Net communications, the government will need to have access to >private data exchanges > ^^^^^^^^^^ >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sorry about the misaligned text and emphasis marks--it looked OK when I was composing the message, but some hidden characters must've been present when I cut-and-pasted the Clark text. I think you all get the gist, though. --Tim Views here are not the views of my Internet Service Provider or Government. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders are just speed bumps on the information superhighway."

1 0

Re: Jim Bell Update
by ghio＠temp0207.myriad.ml.org 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Bell wrote: > "I think that one last (temporary) hope for government is to delay AP. > Chances are good that the "think tank" decided thatt the best way to delay > AP is to discredit me, its author. It was a desperate gamble, particularly > because the act of harrassing me automatically gives AP more publicity. > That's the reason they will fail; the more they try to "get" me, the worse > it will be for them." The government already has plans for dealing with AP (what do you think all those secret service guys in DC are supposed to be doing?) Whether AP is inevitable or not, if people don't know where you are, they can't come kill you. This is why privacy is so important in the digital era. Of course, there are still nukes, but as has been pointed out already many times, the use of a nuclear weapon is likely to kill more friends than enemies.

1 0

Re: Memory Management (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 23:01:16 -0600 > From: Stu Green <stugreen(a)bga.com> > Subject: Re: Memory Management > > > I would imagine that the OS would keep a disk map in memory and > > > mark it with a flag to indicate if it's been paged into memory. > > > > This is a function of the "Look Aside Buffer" and the actual operation is a > > bit more complicated. > Jim - I'm familiar with the 'translation look aside'buffers > on > RISC chips, especially on the MIPS where it provides a > method > of managing cache flushes and reloads on writes and does act > like a page fault to intiate the writes. I haved seen TLBs > associated with disk operations, but that don't mean shit to > a > tree. It turns out, I've been doing more reading on vmm on NT, that the model that's implimented in NT is a hybrid of the MIPS 4000 model and the 386 model. That rationale is that this allows the actual code in the HAL to be much smaller by taking advantage of the different hardware aspects of the cpu architetures (this means speed). Don't know if I am going to get this right since I still haven't figured out all the intricacies. But this is what I *think* is going on (in NT)... The TLB (Translation Lookaside Buffer) is used in NT to determine if the page frame is currently in memory or swapped out. It does this by marking a frame 'invalid' if it's swapped out and listing it's actual page frame number if it's a valid page. Invalid does *not* mean that it can't still be in memory. The reason is that each process has a 'Page Frame Directory' which lists all the valid Page Table Pages for that process. Each of these Page Table Pages lists where each Page Frame Page is within that processes memory map (and that's a whole nother issue with various parts being pageable and non-pageable as well as system or user level). Each Page Frame Page knowns where the individual pages are (ie in memory or swapped out). There is a rather tedious mechanism that translates the virtual addresses to PFD's, PTP's, and finaly to PFP's. That's what I'm trying to get a handle on now. Now these various page related structures get quite big and themselves need to be swapped out. So there is a level of recursion in here. There is also a Page Table Page structure called a 'Prototype PTE Address' (a PTE is a Page Table Entry - ie a valid page frame, these things seem to have several different names making it confusing to follow at times) which is used to allow processes to share a PTE across PFD's. Once we get to a PTE we actualy have a 4k chunk of code or data that a cpu can operate on/with. So, there is where I'm at right now... Hope that makes it clear as mud. Naslajdyatciya! ps. I am enjoying my Toshiba 445CDX, it's a pretty cool machine. Anyone got any suggestions on a PCMCIA ethernet card? pss. Next Saturday is the 1st Saturday in Feb. so the Dallas 1st. Saturday Sale will be going on. Anyone interested? It's basicaly about 20 sq. blocks of computer equipment of every make, model, and age imaginable as well as lots of other stuff (time before last some guy had Cobra Helicopter IR cameras for $500 ea., would make a great IR telescope.). We usualy leave Saturday morning around 2am and get there a bit before 7am. The sale usualy starts about midnite Friday nite and goes until Saturday evening. The best deals are early Saturday morning (my experience over about 5 years of going anyway). ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage(a)ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|

1 0

SUN, UNIX, et al versus MS standards
by attila 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

my only comment on Sun's non-portable software is that it **used-to-be** a case of excessive Berzerkely attitude. Solaris is an effort, and a very credible effort to meet industry and consumer standards. The code is compatible to Sys V R4, and on x86 implementations will execute Sys V R4 binaries, as well as SCO binaries which opens that whole set of markets (software availability). at the Solaris 2.1 and 2.2 levels, Sparc Solaris and X86 Solaris were not even compatible to each other. I just took 200K+ lines of code from a Sys V package and ported it to both Sparc and X86 Solaris 2.4 --perfect. The code also had defines for 4.2+ BSD --those also compiled. Take your pick. Sun got the message on standards; their respone was to meet both; and, they have done a good job of it. Secondly, there is no such thing as bug-free code --that's like free-lunch and it's all relevant. Which would you rather have? patches available on the net, or be forced to upgrade to new bugs with MS plus a few more overkill features. Again, my point is: why bad mouth Sun? This is what has fractured UNIX in the market place and gives the MS assholes the ability to not only stomp UNIX with reviews which always ask "...which flavour of UNIX is it this month?" but, even worse, it gives Gates an opportunity to set YET ANOTHER **PROPRIETY** MS STANDARD --that does not run securely with the mainline. Do you wish to give Microsoft, whose intentions have never waivered from getting a piece of every transaction in the world, **complete** control over everything? on every desktop? In other words, do you want to see Microsoft, and possibly only Microsoft/Intel, in the marketplace. Network managers complained about the Ray Noorda cult, but wait until everybody is forced to join the Bill Gates cult. SUN is not the enemy; MS is. Do you wish to live with MS who, according to the head cultist, **never** issues a maintenance release since the software does not have bugs. Just updates, **expensive** updates, which fix some bugs, add a few overkill features, and introduce new bugs. Is there any really good software for **applications** on UNIX at even close to windows compatible prices --let alone the wealth of material available. Sure WABI gets the main productivity pieces, but PagerMaker and Corel are frozen at Version 5 for WABI. Personally, I use OS/2 as the front end to my Suns; OS/2 is likewise frozen at W3.1 level software --but at least WinOS2 does not crash my entire system or network. I want some of the features in the W95 versions of Corel and Pagemaker, such as HTML --they will never be made available for either OS/2 of UNIX. In other words, we need to stop bitching, and start supporting the alternative systems --constructively. It all comes back to software, and even us techo-freaks, or whatever we are with the long hair blowing all over, need to think about the people who want a simple answer and MS gives the glitter --if we do not help sustain the alternatives, we will not even have the luxury of decent hardware. Even GNU has a W95 and an NT **full pack**.

1 0