January 2004 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: US Finally Kills The 2nd Ammendment
by Nostradumbass＠SAFe-mail.net 11 Jan '04

11 Jan '04

At 03:20 PM 1/11/2004, Jamie Lawrence wrote: >A client/friend recently spent 9 hours in jail for failure to carry a wallet. He was doing something mildly suspicious, but not illegal. NYC has a very entrenched industry dealing with "processing" people the cops pick up. This has only gotten worse since Bloomberg and his "quality of life" racket. Breathing Without ID is essentially a crime that costs a day of your life, not less than ~$200, and a lot of humiliation. I thought the San Francisco cops were bad, before I moved here. (My friend was even told by the cops what to expect, and how best to optimize for getting out quickly. Kafka would have trouble doing better.) >There was a mildly publicized incident in another part of Brooklyn recently where someone was ticketed after their child's balloon popped in public. A noise infraction. Quality of live, indeed. "There are no quotas, but if you don't meet them, you're on report." This is one of the 'applications' for Zombie Patriots. Set up those practicing tyranny under color of the law for a quick trip to the coroner. Bring the fun of Hammas to New York. "How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive?" --Alexander Solzhenitzyn, Gulag Archipelago

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Current Operational Nodes?
by Thoenen, Peter Mr CN Sprint SFOR 11 Jan '04

11 Jan '04

Cross posting on multiple nodes since none seem reliable. Now that LNE is shutting down ... are there actually any other reliable operational nodes? Have subscribed to minder.net, algebra.com, and ds.pro-ns.net all in the last two weeks to no avail. Some return subscribed message but never forward actual traffic (just spam). Think I actually got one or two operational messages from algebra but thats it. Do we want another node? I can throw one up if wanted / needed / trusted (being a contractor for 'the man' and all such bullshit jazz) or do we just want to let this list die? Not a big fan of newsgroups. If wanted, will host offsite on a non-gov commercial server. Personal politics aside, its an enjoyable list to lurk on :) -Peter

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Canada issues levy on non-removable memory (for MP3 players)
by Adam 11 Jan '04

11 Jan '04

I know this story is quite a bit old, but I really have to wonder how legal this levy is. http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/news/c20032004nr-e.html "The Board also sets for the first time a levy on non-removable memory permanently embedded in digital audio recorders (such as MP3 players) at $2 for each recorder with a memory capacity of up to 1 Gigabyte (Gb), $15 for each recorder with memory capacity of more than 1 Gb and up to 10 Gbs, and $25 for each recorder with memory capacity of more than 10 GBs." It just seems to me to be a bit sketchy to tax intended illegal usage. I mean, that'd be like taxing condoms b/c of prostitution. Would something like this go over in the US? I wonder ... -- Adam

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Re: US Finally Kills The 2nd Ammendment
by Nostradumbass＠SAFe-mail.net 10 Jan '04

10 Jan '04

> At 08:10 PM 1/9/2004, Greg Broiles <gbroiles(a)parrhesia.com> wrote: > > Did you actually read the opinion, or just read some screwball summary of it? Obviously not well enough. Thanks for straightening me out. > > >In Cases v. United States, 131 F.2d 916 (1st Cir. 1942) the Supreme Court > >[...] > > Nope. That opinion was written, as the citation indicated, by the Court of > Appeals for the First Circuit, not the Supreme Court. > > > unbelievably held that U.S. v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939) had not > > intended "to formulate a general rule" regarding which arms were > > protected by the Second Amendment and therefore many types of arms were > > not protected. > > While I do think that the 2nd Amendment does, in fact, protect an > individual right to keep and bear arms, I think that the 1st Circuit's > reasoning re _Miller_ in _Cases_ is actually quite reasonable. The opinion > points out that interpreting _Miller_ so that it says the 2nd Amendment > means that Congress can regulate firearms, but only ineffective or useless > ones, is nonsensical. While I don't think the Ninth Circuit reads _Miller_ > in a reasonable fashion, I don't think the "only useless weapons may be > regulated" is an especially rational interpretation of it, either. > > >A plain reading of Miller meant only weapons with non-military application > >could be regulated by Congress and that could not be right because it > >challenged the 'right' of government to have a force monopoly. So the > >Court's reasoning was that the Founders could not have meant for the > >federal government to have any effective deterrent to its tyranny from the > >citizenry. Even after absorbing the opinion, I cannot fathom how > >convoluted a reading of the historical record those on bench needed in > >order to arrive at their conclusion. Pretzel logic indeed! > > Yes, that is an unreasonable conclusion to reach. It is also unreasonable > to conclude that the 2nd Amendment means that no regulation of weapons is > constitutionally permissible. Its hard to square the Founder's purpose of providing the common citizen, through a militia (which a National Guard), with an effective physical deterrent to governmental tyranny with many restrictions on the type of weapons a citizen in good standing may keep and bear. Though allowing the guy next door to own a nuke or a F-15 may be going too far, its not unreasonable for any of us to keep and bear any arm that our police forces (including S.W.A.T. teams) field. >Even the 1st Amendment - which contains the > words "shall make no law" - is interpreted to allow some regulation of > speech. (e.g., shouting theater in a crowded fire, etc.) Only if there is no fire. When a government comes to a bad end there is indeed a fire in the theater.

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Assoc Press sports contact list
by Anonymous 10 Jan '04

10 Jan '04

Some # for GWB is in this. > The AP Sports desk accidentally emailed out there sports rolodex > today to other newsies. If you've been wanting to raise hell with > Peter Ueberroth, talk to Hammering Hank, or see how much Pete Rose > was actually wagering - give em a call. Before they change their > numbers. Someone at the AP is in deep doo-doo. > Aaron Hank 404-614-1348; 404-349-7550 (h) > ABC Radio 456-5185 > Abdul-Jabbar Kareem 213-277-1806 > Abraham Seth 212-512-1648; 212-242-8620 (h) > AC Nielsen 708-6949; 708-7548 > Adams Alan 416-465-1019 (h) > Adcock Joe 318-932-4887 > Albert Marv 212-439-6330 > Alderson Sandy 510-638-4900; 510-430-1828; 415-435-6345 (h) > Alfano, Pete (ATP) 904-285-8000 > Allen Doug (NFLPA) 202-463-2215; 703-549-1528 (h) > Allen Mel 203-531-4440 (h) > Alliss Peter 011-444-2873-5669 > Anderson Dick 305-670-0440; 305-665-0400 (h) > Anderson Ottis 305-683-2524 > Anderson Sparky 805-492-2060 (h) > Andretti Mario 215-759-5118 > Andros Dee 503-754-2370; 503-753-5886 (h) > Angelos Peter 410-547-6210; 410-659-0100; 410-323-4429 (h) > Antonucci John 303-292-0200; 216-533-2660 h-8 p.m. > AP Broadcast 800-368-5915; 800-424-8804 > AP Radio 800-368-5915 > Arbitron 212-887-1318 > Archibald Tiny 212-798-6662 (h) > Argovitz Jerry 713-629-5771 > Argyros George 714-241-4900 > Armato Leonard (agent for Shaq, atty for Kareem) 213-553-6666 > Arnold Jennifer - 212-664-7202; 535-0444 (h) > Arum Bob 702-371-3232; 702-759-9323 (h) > Atlanta Organizing Committee (Bob Brennan) 404-224-1996 > Auerbach Red 202-244-4722; 202-466-8312 (h) > Autry Gene 213-460-5672 or 5676; 818-761-9208 (h); 619-324-2155 Palm > Springs > Baer Larry 415-330-2505; 415-668-4102 (h) > Bailey Wilford 205-821-9723 (h); 205-826-2278 > Baker Buddy 704-527-2763. > Baker Buck - 704-483-9206. > Baker Dusty 415-583-9531 (h) > Baker Terry 503-221-1440 > Bando Sal 414-933-3353; 602-241-3370 (h) > Banks Ernie 818-906-2827; 818-788-4388; 310-823-7268 > Barger Carl 412-381-8807 (h) > Barnett Dick 956-5311 > Barrow Joe Louis Jr 303-420-9592 > Bartholomay Bill 312-726-0759; 312-642-5634 (h) > Bavasi Bill 714-937-7261; 714-855-0259 (h); 714-859-0452 (h) > Bavasi Peter 201-626-2697 > Baylor Don 619-771-1925 > Beathard, Bobby 619-632-9314 > Beban Gary 213-613-3531 > Beeston Paul 416-341-1220; 416-485-1472 (h) > Belcher Tim 419-768-2012 > Bell Jerry 612-375-7400; 612-777-4267 (h) > Bender, Steve (Michael Jordan marketing) 708-575-5615 > Benoit Joan 207-865-9258 > Berbick Trevor 305-431-7383 > Berenson Red 313-747-1203 > Bernstein Donn 951-8318 > Berra Yogi 201-746-1770 > Berry Walter 718-544-4926 > Berst David 913-339-1906, ext. 7450; 913-362-5654 (h) > Berthelsen, Dick (NFLPA lawyer) 202-463-2220; 703-250-7061 (h) > Bettman, Gary 914-638-9434 (h) > Bingham Howard 213-321-3344 > Binns James (WBA atty) 215-922-4000 > Black Coaches Assn 515-271-3010 > Blair Paul 301-747-8107 > Blake Marty 404-410-9301 > Blanchard John 612-546-2620 > Blanda George 312-352-8513; 619-564-0051 > Blanton Dewey 212-628-7734 > Blatnick Jeff 518-463-5244; 374-6078; 374-0131 > Bleier Rocky 412-963-6763 > Blumencranz, Roger 516-328-8300 > Bobek, Nicole 810-258-1600 > Bodo Peter 914-676-3471 > Bolletieri Nick 800-USA-NICK; 813-755-1000; 813-792-4308 (h) > Bonilla Bobby 813-730-1425 (h) > Boone Bob 714-637-3048 > Boudreau Lou 708-841-9105 > Bouton Jim 201-692-8228 > Bradley Bill 202-224-8561 > Bradshaw Susan (Marlboro racing) 718-243-2815 > Bradshaw Terry 817-379-0800 (h) > Bradshaw Terry 817-379-5280 > Bray Cary 704-541-6339 > Brennan Bob (Atlanta Organizing Committee) 404-224-1996 > Brochu Claude 514-253-3049; 514-844-5396 (h); 407-625-0445 (h) > Brodsky Irv 914-761-2483 > Brown Bobby 212-315-0338 > Brown Bobby 817-732-5759; 212-315-0338 > Brown Hubie 201-992-9563 > Brown Hubie 404-252-5463 > Brown Jimmy 310-652-7884 > Brown Tim 214-321-0081 > Brown Warren (USA Basketball) 719-590-4800 > Bubas Vic 813-996-5096 > Buchsbaum Joel 718-252-4810 > Budge Don 717-828-2817 > Budig Gene 609-252-1451 > Buoniconti Nick 203-622-3524 > Burns Ken 750-5556 > Burns Mike 628-8393 > Bush W. George 214-891-3131 > Butkus Dick 310-450-7040; 310-456-5056 (h); 708-654-3599 > Butler Brett 404-448-3402 (h) > Campbell Earl 512-477-6798; 512-328-3929 (h) > Cantey Charlsie 703-364-3086 > Carillo Mary 813-263-7557 > Carillo Mary 813-263-7557 > Carlson Mark USGA-201-662-7228 (h) > Carnesecca Lou 718-380-1569 > Carnicelli Joe 201-309-1200 > Casey, Kathy 719-634-4789 > Cashen Frank 718-565-4300; 516-759-5500 (h) > Cashman Terry 490-0644 > Caulkins Tracy 615-373-2623; 904-372-6085 > Cawood Dave 913-339-1906; 913-631-5996 (h) > Cayton Bill - 212-532-1711; 914-834-2899 (h) > CBS News 212-975-4114 > CBS Radio 975-3771 > Chamberlain Wilt 310-476-3666 > Chambliss Chris 803-299-6266 (h) > Champion USA - 910-519-6500 > Chance Dean 216-262-2476 > Cherry Don 416-274-8354 > Cindrich Ralph 412-429-1250 > Cirillo John 465-6499, 63, 65; 914-238-1473 (h) > Citrus Bowl 407-423-2476 > Claire Fred 213-224-1308; 818-440-1983 (h) > Clancy Gil 516-599-0474 > Clark Jack 415-736-8777 (h) > Clemens Roger 713-392-6337 > Clifford Alexander 202-546-0111 > Clyde David 713-351-5556 (h); 713-351-8171 > Colangelo Jerry 602-379-7999; 602-379-2020; 602-263-8416 > Coleman Leonard 908-706-9015 (h) > Collins Bud 617-929-2842; 617-862-1730 (h) > Condon Tom 816-531-5777 > Condron Bob USOC-719-578-4529 > Cook Beano 412-281-2456 > Cook Stanton 312-222-3301; 312-404-4050; 708-251-3065 (h) > Cooperstown 607-547-7200; 607-547-0332 > Corso Lee 800-824-9430; 407-333-2228 (h) > Cortez, Christine 522-1905. > Cosell Hilary 203-322-5501 > Cosell Jill 203-329-7778 > Cousy Bob 508-791-2777 (h); 617-326-8825 > Cowens Dave 617-787-7678 > Cox Bobby 404-916-0460 (h) > Coyle Harry 201-696-5420 (h) > Criqui Don 201-226-1170 > Csonka Larry 216-424-7467; 904-221-0921 > Cubbage Mike 804-985-2076 > Cunningham Sam 213-598-4809 > Curtis Mike 202-463-2100 > Dallos Andrew 212-456-4878; 212-532-4401 (h) > Dalton Harry 414-351-4792, 2206 (h) > Dark Alvin 803-855-2163 > David Chili 602-585-3524 (h) > Davidson John 914-273-3983 > Davis Al 213-821-0690 (h); 213-322-3541 > Davis Eric 818-704-1771 (h); 513-731-6567 (h) > Davis Marvin 303-623-1000; 303-861-4600; 303-789-2555 (h) > Dawson, Len 816-561-7510 > Dawson Len 816-942-7614 > de Varona Donna 972-9170 > Deane Bill (baseball hof librarian) 607-547-1201 > DeBartolo Eddie 216-533-4060; 415-854-3350 > DeBusschere Dave 943-4175 > DeFrantz Anita 213-730-9614 > DeLuca Len 212-975-1117 > Dent Bucky 407-368-0780 (h) > Devine Dan 314-882-2055 > Dierdorf Dan 314-469-6960; 314-469-3221 (h) > DiMaggio Joe 415-931-5711; 305-865-9961, ext 1721; 415-673-2266 > Ditka Mike 708-735-0315; 813-434-2818 > Dixon Don 463-2620 > Dodds, DeLoss 512-471-5757 > Dolgon Howard - 714-1280 > Dombrowski Dave 305-626-7404; 305-767-0015 (h) > Donlan Jack 914-779-4192 > Doubleday Nelson 212-223-6518; 516-676-4284 (h); 508-325-5550 (h) > Douglas, Buster 614-265-2257 > Downtown Athletic Club 425-7000 > Doyle Brian 813-293-8516 > Dozoretz Linda IMG-213-656-4499; 213-654-1196 (h) > Driesell Lefty 301-622-0786 > Drucker Jim 704-541-6339 > Dryden Ken 416-962-7280 > Duffy Bill (Jason Kidd's agent) 510-975-5955 > Dundee Angelo 305-964-9592; 305-625-9999 > Dupree Marcus 601-264-8141; 601-583-4943 > Duva Dan 201-389-9000 > Eagleson Alan 416-863-6000 > Earnhardt Dale 704-596-9002 704-371-3334. > Ebersol Dick 212-664-2468 > Edwards Harry 510-642-4773; 510-657-8005 > Edwards Harry 415-657-8005; 415-642-4773 > Einhorn Eddie 312-451-5237; 201-784-0090 (h) > Elias Stats 869-1530. > Elliott Bill 404-262-7811; 404-993-6380. > Eller Carl 612-642-9363 > Elway John 303-792-2000 > Eruzione Mike 617-846-9484 > ESPN Newsroom 203-585-2135 > Face Elroy 412-829-7073 > Fairbanks Chuck 619-773-3727 > Falk David (agent for Jordan, Ewing) 202-686-2000 > Favell Doug 416-562-5489 > Fehr Don 914-939-3439 > Fehr Steve 816-474-1240 > Fencik Gary 312-472-8793 (h); 312-390-8500 > Ferguson Claire US Figure Skating-401-423-2114 > Ferraro Jim football agent-305-375-0111 > Ferrin Arnie 801-583-4313 > Finkel Shelly 682-9400 > Finley Charley 312-946-8900; 312-467-0442 (h) > Finn Richard 772-9761 > Firestone Roy 213-469-8111 > Fishoff David 757-1605 > Flutie Doug 617-653-8374 > Foerderer Norma Trump Plaza-832-2000 > Foley Dave 513-324-0092 > Ford Whitey 516-482-3504 (h); 516-997-9690 > Forte Chet 397-9870 > Fouts Dan 503-388-2078 (h) > Fraley, Bob 407-843-0191; 876-3766 (h) > Francesa Mike - 718-706-7650 WFAN ; 516-432-9427 > Francis Bevo 216-532-1879 > Finkel Shelly 682-9400 > Finley Charley 312-946-8900; 312-467-0442 (h) > Finn Richard 772-9761 > Firestone Roy 213-469-8111 > Fishoff David 757-1605 > Flutie Doug 617-653-8374 > Foerderer Norma Trump Plaza-832-2000 > Foley Dave 513-324-0092 > Ford Whitey 516-482-3504 (h); 516-997-9690 > Forte Chet 397-9870 > Fouts Dan 503-388-2078 (h) > Fraley, Bob 407-843-0191; 876-3766 (h) > Francesa Mike - 718-706-7650 WFAN ; 516-432-9427 > Francis Bevo 216-532-1879 > Francis Carl (NFLPA) 202-463-2216; 703-264-9093 (h) > Frank Barry 772-8900 > Fratello Mike 404-951-0144 > Frazier Joe 215-221-5303 > Frazier Walt 222-3704 > Froemming, Bruce 414-355-2565 > Futch Eddie 818-918-0280 > Gaines Rowdy 702-647-6939 > Garagiola Joe 602-951-9091 > Garagiola Joe 602-951-9542 (h) > Garner Phil 713-358-3545 (h) > Garvey Ed 608-258-1522; 608-238-0544 (h) > Gastineau Mark 516-421-3294 > Gaston Cito 813-736-0335 (h) > Gedman Rich 617-877-8487 > Gene Scott - 753-8961 (h) > Genelius Sandy 212-975-5392; 724-0587 (h) > George Tom Grant Hill agent-202-333-3838 > Giles Bill 215-462-1170; 610-525-5540 (h) > Gillick Pat 416-341-1233; 416-278-8132 (h) > Ginsberg Stu NBAPA-371-0798, 718-793-4912 (h) > Glass Sam 516-922-3255; 308-3647 > Glickman Marty 212-628-8200 > Glover Rich 408-294-5813 > Goetz Raymond 913-842-3786 > Goldstein Joe 212-629-0370; 516-877-2674 (h) > Gooden Dwight 813-864-0415 (h) > Goodenow Bob 416-482-4182 (h) > Gordon Jeff 704-377-8727; 704-455-3400. > Gordon Randy 417-5700; 516-785-4299 > Gorman Lou 617-236-6655; 617-235-2734, 2984 (h) > Gossett Peggy (Evert flak) 407-495-5599 (h); 407-394-2400 > Gowdy Curt 603-869-2257 > Gowdy Curt Jr 203-966-1145 > Green Dallas 610-869-0736; 809-946-4548 > Green Roy 314-432-6160 > Greenberg Steve 212-529-8000; 212-348-5430 (h) > Greene Joe 214-298-0374 > Greenspan Bud 212-249-1800; 212-838-7651 (h) > Greg Sharko ATP-904-285-8000 > Griese Bob 305-443-7416; 305-665-9857 (h) > Griffith Calvin 305-725-6296 > Griffith Emile 718-479-4955; 718-479-7330 > Griffith Joyner Florence 714-759-9079 > Grinker Ron 513-761-7770 > Gumbel Bryant 664-4147 > Guthrie Glenn (Barkley manager) 205-970-9113 > Gwynn Tony 619-679-9289 (h) > Haas Wally 415-221-2667 > 9 Haddix Harvey 513-322-4528 (h) > Ham Jack 412-741-9475 > Harazin Al 914-472-5403 (h) > Harp Dick 913-843-7655 > Harrell, Akieva 522-4461. > Harrelson Bud 516-360-0139 (h) > Harris Franco 412-322-5500 > Harvey Doug 619-279-7177 > Hazzard Larry 609-292-0317 > Heep Danny 512-751-2519 > Heiss Jenkins Carol 216-864-3200. > Heitz Thomas (Baseball HOF) 607-547-1201 > Hillenburg Andy 704-455-1700. > Helmick Bob 515-244-1116 > Helmick Robert 888-9028 (h); 415-9200 > Henrich Tommy 602-772-7866 > Herzog Whitey 314-842-5609 (h) > Hinckley Rob 415-945-8260 > Hobson Butch 508-898-3544 (h) > Hoffman, Stan 629-3410 > Holmes, Larry 215-253-4553 > Holtzman, Jerome 708-475-5163 > Holzman Red 516-295-5745; 516-295-4565 > Horner Bob 214-252-0814; 602-931-4739 > Hornung Paul 502-583-9000; 502-897-7085 (h) > Houk Ralph 813-324-1073 > Howe Steve 406-862-2658 > Hrbek Kent 612-884-6833 (h) > Huarte John 602-438-1324 > Hubbard Jan 212-407-8324; 908-789-9670 (h) > Huff Sam 202-897-7070 > Huizenga Wayne 305-832-3223; 305-467-2576 (h) > Hunt, Lamar 214-691-9189 > Hunt Ron 314-673-2921 > Hunter Catfish 919-426-7998 > Hyde Harvey 818-355-1709 > Iacobelli Pete 803-741-9077 > IBF - 201-414-0300 > IMG 202-822-1360; 216-522-1200 > Irvin Monte 904-382-0228 > Jackson, Charlie 914-476-7809 (h); 212-872-5225 > Jackson Jesse 202-986-0550 > Jackson Keith 818-783-7643; 604-883-9386 > Jackson Reggie 510-644-0044 (h) > Jackson, Roger 212-522-2420. > Jacobs Eli 212-688-7166; 212-688-7110 > Jeffrey H. Smulyen 317-266-0100; 317-297-9700 (h) > Jiggetts Dan 312-565-5532 > Joe Billy 513-376-6319; 513-767-7153 (h) > John McMullen 212-466-2200 > Johnson Davey 407-628-4860 (h) > Johnson Dave (horse racing) 212-755-6867 > Johnson John Henry 412-682-7743 > Johnson, Magic 310-788-7690; 310-451-4530 > Jordan Lee Roy 214-357-7317 > Joyce Andrea 212-787-3346 (h) > Kapstein Jerry 619-457-2470; 619-453-8757 (h) > Karch Sarge 202-861-1671 > Kasten Stan 404-827-3826; 404-614-1366; 404-394-2228 (h) > Katz Mike 673-0133 > Kazmaier Dick 508-371-1732 > Keener, Steve (Little League) 717-326-1921 > Kensil Jim 516-541-5871 > Kern Rex 805-654-1548 > Kessler, Jeffrey 310-8646 > Kheel Robert 212-821-8234; 212-799-0332 (h) > Kibler John 619-433-6125 > Kidd Dusty Nike-503-671-6453 > Kiefler Carl Willie Mays agent-201-251-9307 > Kiick Jim 305-765-1041; 305-249-6570 > King Billie Jean 216-522-1200; 312-245-5300; 312-647-0505 > King Don 212-794-2900; 212-758-4285; 216-272-5474; 305-568-3500 > King, Peter 522-1212; 201-509-2240. > Kinney Jeff 708-668-5308 (h); 312-559-1761 > Kiper Mel 301-744-7922; 410-692-2032 > Klein Eric (Rickey Henderson agent) 310-858-1872 > Kliever Lonnie 214-692-2102 > Knoblauch Chuck 713-782-3345 (h) > Kohn Marvin 838-9230; 838-4230 > Koufax Sandy 207-469-2053 > Kramer Jack 213-472-3801 > Kramer Jerry 208-722-5877 > Kristin Matt (US Figure Skating) 719-635-5200 > Kuhn, Bowie 904-285-9935, 904-285-9938; 516-653-4133 > La Russa Tony 510-838-4679 > La Russa Tony 415-838-4679 (h) > Labonte Bobby 704-788-7979 > Lachemann Rene 602-488-4575 (h) > LaCivita Ric 203-226-3465 > Land Peter 212-249-6312 (h) > Landeta Sean 410-825-8855 > Landry, Tom 214-750-7474 > Lane Mills 702-328-3220 > Lanier Bob 414-241-4667 (h) > Lans Allen Dr 754-2500 > Lapchick Richard 617-373-4025 > Lapchick Richard 617-437-4025 > Lapin East West 532-7673 > LaPlaca Chris 203-585-2239; 203-676-8587 (h) > Lasorda Tommy 714-870-4894 > Lauren Rich 718-858-4370 > Lavalle Nye 214-407-9560 > Lawton Lynnore (Women's Sports Foundation) 516-542-4700 > Leaird Ana (WTA) 813-895-5000; 800-425-9488; 813-576-6001 (h) > Leaver Linda (Brian Boitano coach) 415-948-2478 > Lemon Bob 213-424-9839 > Levinsohn Ross 512-1066 > Lewin Dennis 212-456-3437 > Lewis Butch 302-582-4344; 302-594-0700 > Lewis, Carl 713-984-1933 > Ley Bob 203-585-2144; 203-583-2300 (h) > Lilly Bob 505-523-7749 > Lindsay Ted 313-375-2437 > Little Larry 614-792-6189 > Lolich Mickey 313-693-0029 > Lopez Al 813-839-6584 > Lopez Hector 516-678-6118 > Louganis, Greg 310-312-3132; 310-457-3910 > Lucas John 713-799-8336; 713-799-1705 > Lucchino Larry 619-584-7201; 619-454-1995 (h) > Luckman Sid 305-932-6200; 312-544-1600 > Lynch Dick 248-7990 > Lynn Mike 612-475-1016 (h) > Macallister Steve (NHLPA) 416-408-4040; 905-455-0563 (h) > Mackey John 213-684-1459 > MacPhail Lee 407-752-1369; 407-278-9945; 407-243-1371 > Madden John 415-846-7770; 212-874-3958; 415-820-2630 > Magowan Peter 415-330-2599; 415-931-3295 (h) > Major League BB Alumni 800-33-MLBPA > Mandel Mark 212-456-4867; 201-251-8156 (h) > Mangione Steve Steinbrenner flak-- 518-1600 > Mann Carol 972-9170 > Mantle's Restaurant 688-7777 > Mara Chris 914-234-6764 > Mara Wellington 914-967-1776 (h) > Margenau Eric Dr 353-3560; 473-1700; 741-4668 > Markbreit Jerry 708-677-9379 (h) > Markey Ed - 212-664-2014; 932-2665 (h) > Marlin Sterling 704-782-2588 > Martin Mark 910-622-5160. > Mays Willie 884-2424; 415-326-2424 > McCovey Willie 707-649-0900 > McDonough Sean 617-984-0928 (h) > McDonough Will 617-929-2873; 617-749-6070 > McEnroe John Sr - 212-373-3016 > McGraw Tug 215-581-4573 > McGuire Al 414-781-6300; 414-483-2110 > McIntyre Brian NBA-212-826-7000; 914-633-7596 (h) > McKernan Pat 505-843-6573 > McLain Denny 219-432-4679 (h) > McMorris Jerry 303-312-2342; 303-484-4441 (h) > McMullen John 466-2200 > Meggyesy Dave 415-546-7866 > Mercante Arthur 516-292-9000, ext 218; 516-248-6884 > Mercein Chuck 914-472-4021 (h); 232-6922 > Merritt Tom 201-583-4445; 212-371-5910 > Michael Gene 718-579-4405; 201-934-6166 (h) > Michaels Al 213-395-2174 > Michaels Walt 717-256-3425 > Mikita Stan 718-574-2370 > Millen Matt 215-434-3781 (h) > Miller, Marvin 212-737-5047 > Modell Art 216-951-3637 (h) > Moe Doug 303-694-6167 (h) > Monaghan Kevin 212-664-5407, 718-965-4371 (h) > Moore Archie 619-238-0450 > Moore Lenny 301-655-6239 (h); 301-333-6777; 301-333-1059; > 301-333-8289 > Moran Mike USOC-719-578-4529 > Morgan Joe 510-482-0876 (h) > Morrall Earl 305-475-8200 > Morris Mercury 305-443-4040 > Morrison Scotty 416-245-0443 (h); 416-595-1345 > Moses Edwin 513-263-5180; 714-855-1846 > Moss Dick 988-6767; 310-454-9991 > Motta Dick 208-945-2571; 407-229-1071; 801-752-5839 > Moyer, Jay (NFL lawyer) 212-534-2464 (h) > Murphy Eileen (Nightline) 202-887-7289 > Murray Bill 413-637-2617 > Musburger Brent 203-227-4651 (h) > Musburger Todd 312-664-2600 > Muster Brad 415-897-3853 > NBA - 212-826-7000 > Neale Harry 716-689-2234 > Neinas Chuck CFA-303-530-5566 > Nelson Todd 619-268-2871 > Nettles Graig 619-481-5444 > Newman Rock 202-371-2100 > NFL - 212-758-1500 > NHL 212-789-2000 > NHL - 212-398-1100 > NHLPA 416-408-4040 > Nichols Hank 215-645-4621 > NL - 212-339-7700 > NYRA 718-641-4700 > O'Connor Chuck 212-249-8586; 703-329-1968 (h) > Oerter Al 516-669-1376 (h); 516-575-3218; 516-349-5273 > Oliver Al 817-792-3511 > Olsen Merlin 818-576-0434 > O'Malley Peter 213-224-1314 > O'Neil Terry 212-664-4021; 203-661-0247, 9744 (h) > Orr Bobby 617-451-1963 > Orza Gene 212-980-9024 > Ostertag Thomas 914-337-3240 (h) > Owen Mickey 417-866-2148 > Pacheco Ferdie 305-573-2874 > Packer Billy 919-998-2505 > Page Alan 612-297-5922; 612-296-6951 > Pahl Al 414-465-6766; 414-465-6646 (h) > Palmer Jim 407-626-6661 > Palmieri Sergio (McEnroe's manager) 39-51-226214 > Parseghian Ara 219-233-9481 > Parseghian Ara 219-272-0186 (h); 219-233-9481 > Pascal Sal 212-822-1399 > Patkin Max 215-783-5933 > Patterson Floyd 914-255-0802 > Paul Gabe 813-831-8178 (h) > Payton Gary 415-536-2190 > Payton Walter 312-843-0034; 708-605-0034 > Pearl Davey 702-451-9931 > Pearson Drew 214-638-2414 > Pensick Matt (US Figure Skating) 719-635-5200 > Perez Tony (boxing) 212-293-0908 > Perman Marc (Barkley agent) 212-529-5800; 213-275-6800 > Perry Barbara (Capriati agent) 215-568-4444 > Peters Keith (Jordan marketing) 503-671-3732 > Petronelli Pat 617-583-6637; 617-697-7617 > Phelps Digger 219-232-6486 > Phillips Bum 713-499-6369 > Phillips Richie 215-979-3200; 215-647-5785; 215-647-6141 (h) > Phipps Mike 305-566-2742 > Pincus Arthur NHL-212-1789-2150; 718-796-7397 (h) > Pohlad Carl 612-341-7927; 612-922-3613 (h) > Policy Carmen 415-326-7701 > Posey Sam 203-364-0156 > Postema Pam 714-361-3792 (h) > Pound Dick 514-397-3037; 514-931-0000 (h) > Presten Sy 42-5058 > Pro Serv703-276-3030 > Puckett Kirby 612-493-4647 (h) > Pugh Jethro 214-939-0431 > Quinn Bob 415-330-2502 > Quinn Jim 914-273-3651; 310-8000 > Quisenberry Dan 913-491-1262 > Raines Tim 813-254-7844 > Ralph Nader 202-387-8030 > Ralston John 415-854-5308 > Ramsay Jack 609-399-0104 > Randolph Willie 201-848-0281 (h) > Rappaport Dennis 718-631-7228 (h); 718-978-3300; 718-528-4087 > Ravitch Richard 212-570-1030 (h); 914-764-5574 (h) > Reaves John 713-496-3690 > Reich Tom 213-556-2750; 412-391-2626; 813-957-1372 > Reinsdorf Jerry 312-440-1122; 312-640-1313 (h); 602-596-8500 (h) > Rich Lauren 718-858-4370 > Richard Henri 514-687-8500 > Riggs Bobby 619-435-0402; 819-436-3627 > Rigney Bill 510-837-8353 > Riska Rudy 425-7000 > Roberts Robin 813-985-7688 (h) > Roberts Tom 213-377-6969 > Robertson Oscar 513-984-0990 > Robinson Brooks 301-539-7400; 301-659-4899 > Robinson Eddie 318-247-3907 (h) > Robinson John 714-692-1994 > Robinson Rachel 290-8600 > Rodgers Bill 617-655-9232; 508-653-9313 > Rodgers Guy 213-665-4370; 213-660-3857 > Rose Pete 800-803-7383 radio show ; 407-488-7383 restaurant > Rose Rich 310-552-2711 > Rosen Al 619-321-7627 > Rosenstein Jay 212-975-6657; 914-354-9164 (h) > Royal Darrell 512-495-4517; 512-327-5554 (h); 512-471-1156 > Rozelle Pete 619-756-2635 > Rubenstein Howard 489-6900 > Rudd Irving 516-741-3232; 718-428-1427 (h) > Rudd Ricky 704-663-7778. > Runge Paul 619-579-5808 > Russell Bill 206-232-2405; 206-236-0765 (h) > Ryan Buddy 502-839-9838 > Ryan Jim 913-749-3325; 913-631-1100 > Saban, Lou 813-645-1495 > Sack Alan Dr 203-389-5284 (h); 203-932-7285 > Sain Johnny 708-968-8779 > Sam Rutigliano 803-768-7058; 216-256-9829 > Sample Johnny 215-472-5227 > Sands Jack 617-227-5535 > Sax Steve 916-652-3775 (h) > Sayers Gale 708-982-1030 > Schaffel Lewis 305-577-4328 > Schanzer Ken 212-664-2437 > Schayes Dolph 315-446-5186 > Schmidt Joe 313-353-5577 > Schramm Tex 214-363-6665; 305-294-6715 (h) > Schuerholz John 404-614-1368; 404-237-8711 (h) > Scott Ray Bass Anglers-205-286-9724 > Seifert George 408-732-8822 (h) > Selig Bud 414-933-4114; 414-352-0927 (h) > Selmon Lee Roy 813-974-2125 > Sexton Jimmy (Reggie White, Heath Shuler agent) 901-763-4900 > Shamsky Art 751-6387 > Shell Donnie 803-252-1223 > Sheridan Danny 205-476-1122 > Shula Don 305-828-0281 (h) > Silverman Ira 686-5983 > Simpson OJ 213-820-5702 > Skowron Bill 708-893-3379 > Slusher Howard 213-541-0035 > Smith Tal 713-965-0410 > Solomon Artie 914-472-3390 (h); 914-472-6598 > Soltys Mike 203-585-2242; 203-589-8361 (h) > Spahn Warren 918-297-2400 > Spence Jim 605-0255 > Sperber Murray 812-855-4433; 812-339-5308 (h) > Spitz Mark 213-879-1184 > Springstead Marty 813-922-9149 > Stabler Ken 205-433-8888 > Stabler Ken 205-433-8888 > Stack Ed 269-1833 > Stallworth John 205-533-6497 > Starr Bart 205-945-4974 > Staubach Roger 214-386-0739 (h); 714-720-8700 > Steinbrenner 813-281-9001; 813-886-7130; 718-884-0591; 718-884-0791 > Steiner Jim 314-862-5560 > Stephenson Dwight 305-5573230 > Steve Young 801-226-1010 > Stouffer Kelly 308-327-2969 > Stram Hank 504-892-4771 > Strickland Bill Chris Webber agent-202-822-1360 > Strock Don 305-887-7756 > Suder Pete 412-375-7518 > Sugar Bert 730-1374 > Swann Lynn 412-391-8242 > Swanson Dennis 212-456-3710 > Tagliabue Paul 212-472-1998; 301-320-7271; 212-758-1500, ext 6923 > Tanner Chuck 412-658-6717 > Tarkenton Fran 404-231-8575 > Taylor Alan 714-1280 > Team Tennis - 312-245-5300 > Tekulve Kent 412-257-0471 > Theismann Joe - 305-428-7507 parents > Thomas Dave-Te 718-843-6934; 718-848-5256 (h) > Thompson Charles 513-268-9304 > Thon Dickie 809-796-2198 (h) > Thrift Syd 804-435-0515; 703-591-6459; 703-591-6511 > Tisch Bob 212-545-2828 > Tittle YA 415-328-7586 > Torre Joe 314-425-0668 (h) > Towler Deacon Dan 213-343-4446; 213-684-1556 (h) > Trabert Tony 904-285-4362 > Trainer Mike 301-657-4771 > Tranghese Mike 401-831-0588 > Trautwig Al - 887-6793; 516-674-3730 > Trebelhorn Tom 503-232-5903 (h) > Trope Mike 213-478-4799 > Troy Jim 203-352-8649 > Trudeau Garry - 721-5075 > Tunney Jim 408-624-1111; 408-659-3200 > Turner Bulldog 817-865-5561 > Turner Ted 404-827-1827 > Tutko Thomas Dr 408-688-7249 (h); 408-924-1374 > Ueberroth Peter 213-312-1888 > Underwood John 305-367-3172 > Upshaw Gene 202-463-2212 (h); 703-759-6004. > US Figure Skating 719-635-5200 > USTA 914-696-7000 > USTA 914-696-0300 > Vaccaro Jimmy 702-791-7242 > Vaccaro Sonny 213-454-0921 > Valentine Bobby 817-925-0919 (h) > Vargo Ed 412-287-3066 > Veeck Mike 305-783-2111 > Vermeil Dick 215-486-0199 > Vincent Fay 212-288-0112 > Viola Frank 305-788-1751 (h) > Visser Lesley 212-752-1832 > Vitale Dick 813-794-6841 > Waitz Grete 904-332-0544 > Wallace Allen 714-494-7866. > Wallace Kenny 704-785-9191 414-931-4307 704-664-2300. > Wallace Mike 910-631-9375. > Wallace Rusty 205-582-3711. > Walsh Bill 415-327-1991 (h) > Walsh Jim 688-6310 > Walton Bill 619-294-9085 > Waltrip Darrell 704-455-3500. > Washington Kermit 503-684-5713 > Washton Arnold Dr 213-4900 > Watson Bob 713-799-9611; 713-467-0760 (h) > Weaver Earl 305-558-2610 > Weber Michael (WWF) 203-352-8600 > Weisman Mike 310-471-5565; 213-551-2270 > White Bill 215-982-5816; 212-754-4611. > White Charles 714-458-3844 > Whitfield Shelby 908-536-7084 > Williams Buck 503-720-1002 > Williams Ted 813-796-7716 > Wilpon Fred 516-773-3800; 212-953-4000; 516-759-5500 (h) > Wilpon Fred 516-759-5500 > Wine Bobby 610-539-6755 (h) > Winfield Dave 213-472-8704 (h) > Winslow Kellen 708-655-5939 > Wladika Vince 212-556-2472; 908-264-3689 (h) > Wolf David 362-3686; 595-0454 > Wolff Roger 618-826-3866 > Wooden John 818-343-2266 > Woods Ickey 513-769-3334 > Woy Bucky 214-252-4738 > Wynn Early 813-485-3996 > Young George 201-935-3491; 201-935-9212; 201-825-7361 (h) > Young Steve 801-226-1010; 801-649-2499 > Youngblood Jack 714-633-2251 > Ziegler John 313-625-2914 > Zimmer Don 813-360-6835 (h) > Ken Macha (Pittsburgh): 724-325-3371 > Jeff Kent's agent, Jeff Klein, (Weil Gotshall Manges) 212-310-8000 > David Bell (Seattle): 206-669-4194 > Reggie Sanders: 602-740-4600 (agent Eric Goldschmidt sp???) > Mark Ellis: 605-484-7526 (Phoenix) > Scott Hatteburg: 253-857-8776 (h), 617-877-6706 , schoop10(a)aol.com > Tim Hudson: 813-645-7162, thuddy15(a)aol.com > Lou Piniella: 813-265-2023 (home in Tampa, Fla.) > Brian Sabean, general manager: 415-793-3214 , 972-1910 (o) > Ned Colletti, assistant general manager: 415 793 3213 , > ncolletti(a)sfgiants.com > Giants owner Peter Magowan's assistant: 972-1952 > Russ Ortiz: 480-221-5806 (h in ariz), 480-539-7929 , > play4him48(a)aol.com > Rich Aurilia: 602-840-4878 (h), 602-421-0850 , dilli(a)aol.com > Bud Black cell: 619-548-0306 > Johnnie Baker (Dusty's dad in Sacramento): 916-978-9644 > Billy Beane: 925-855-1665 (h), 510-917-3456 > Barry Zito: 323-481-0084 , leftyripper(a)aol.com > Mike Venafro: 941-267-7044 (h), 214-684-4853 , mrven1(a)aol.com > Kathy Jacobson, Zito's publicist, 925-736-5333 > Jim Zeches, 49ers West Coast regional scout, 408-562-4949 (office), > 480-226-2146 (cell), jzeches(a)niners.nfl.com

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Re: US Finally Kills The 2nd Ammendment
by Nostradumbass＠SAFe-mail.net 10 Jan '04

10 Jan '04

> >Further appeals to Congress and the states are no longer a sure bet. The > >soap box and the ballot box have been throughly tried, is it now time to > >get out the ammo box? > > You're forgetting the jury box. Are you forgetting that the Fat Lady on the jury, at least in the 9th Circuit, already sang? That's how we got to where we are. Could other juries in other cases decide differently? Sure. But why wait any more than Congress or some States may wait? In two key cases last century the logic of the Supreme Court or lack of it was clearly revealed as they tried to somehow interpret away historical record and Founder intention to square the 2nd Amendment with statist needs. In Cases v. United States, 131 F.2d 916 (1st Cir. 1942) the Supreme Court unbelievably held that U.S. v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939) had not intended "to formulate a general rule" regarding which arms were protected by the Second Amendment and therefore many types of arms were not protected. In fact Miller held that it is the firearm itself, not the act of keeping and bearing the firearm, which must have a "reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia. Meaning if the weapon qualified any citizen could keep and near it. A plain reading of Miller meant only weapons with non-military application could be regulated by Congress and that could not be right because it challenged the 'right' of government to have a force monopoly. So the Court's reasoning was that the Founders could not have meant for the federal government to have any effective deterrent to its tyranny from the citizenry. Even after absorbing the opinion, I cannot fathom how convoluted a reading of the historical record those on bench needed in order to arrive at their conclusion. Pretzel logic indeed!

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FBI Weighs in on VoIP
by Tyler Durden 09 Jan '04

09 Jan '04

Some mention of crypto, too. http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?site=lightreading&doc_id=45695 _________________________________________________________________ Check your PC for viruses with the FREE McAfee online computer scan. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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Welcome to America. Please give us the finger. Smile for the camera. Now please get the hell out
by Steve Schear 09 Jan '04

09 Jan '04

Scenes From A Sad Airport <http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2004/01/09/notes010904.DTL&nl= fix> By Mark Morford Look at those eyes. Perturbed and bemused and just a little furious. Look at those eyes as the baffled woman from east Texas stares down at the table as the security agent rifles through her luggage and pulls out the contents for all to see. And out pops the skimpy latex thong and the anal beads and the Astroglide and the smallish travel dildo that isn't really a dildo at all but is really a "sexual-education device," because, as everyone knows, dildos are completely illegal in Texas. But not guns. Guns are mandatory. Note how she notes the irony. Note how she considers suing for embarrassment and humiliation and for the sheer idiocy of it all. Note how the security agent mumbles something snide and derogatory. Note how we, as a paranoid nation, are just confused and sad and how our airports have become these comical circus sideshows, invasive and racist and draconian and pornographic all in the name of, what was it again? Protection? For our own good? Is that it? And look there, look how that conservative Christian U.S. congressman is just so red faced and enraged when they search through his manly black Samsonite carry-on and find, well, not just a nice new Bible and clean white Jockey underwear and assorted envelopes of cash from the director of Destroy Gay Marriage Now! of Colorado Springs, Colo. Look there, just under the argyle sweaters and the signed head shot from Pat Robertson, at the stash of sticky Honcho magazines and some Hello Kitty Speedos and, lo and behold, the metal in the congressman's boots induces an unfortunate backroom strip search, where what do we see but the assorted bright red welts of spankdom as incurred from Mistress Carlita's Pleasure Bunker in downtown Phoenix, from the night before. Oh, Congressman. Do you hear that? That screaming? Of course you do. Just another outraged mother of three, her appalled shouts echoing all the way to the food court as LAX security gropes the living hell out of her stunned 2-year-old daughter after the tot's teddy bear appeared to have some odd-looking wiring in its cute fuzzy little arms. And the mother up and slaps the scowling groping security agent and alarms are sounded and guns are drawn and children are screaming and Spongebob backpacks tumble to the ground and spill their bright happy contents all over the stained tiles in terrible slow motion, like a bad Tarantino outtake. And thus were lines held up and 16 flights from Dulles and O'Hare and JFK delayed for nine hours, causing a domino-effect 27-hour backup systemwide and thusly pumping yet another enormous and savage dose of frustrated rage and angst and sighing ennui into another artery of the cultural bloodstream. Look. Look there. See the hobbled, 86-year-old man forced to put down his cane and remove his threadbare belt to pass through the metal detector. Terrorists are everywhere! Bush said so! We can't be too sure! Do you have metal pins in your hip, sir? Can you please remove them or something? Let us watch in humiliated shame as he struggles to keep his pants from falling down as it looks, to all appearances, like he's being led though a scanner to some horrific prison cell where he will be fed old oatmeal and dangerous drugs in harsh fluorescent concrete rooms, when all he's trying to do is fly to Poughkeepsie for his granddaughter's third wedding. Because God knows you just can't tell who might be a terrorist these days, and you can't be too careful, because they could indeed be anyone at all from anywhere at all, including but not at all limited to white Lutheran octogenarians from the Shady Pines retirement-condo complex in Butte, Mont. Not to mention them dang furriners. Let us now welcome the overwhelmed visitor from China, or Latvia, or Johannesburg, or Brazil, or India, or (heaven forefend) Turkey. It's OK, come on out of that plane. Ignore the stun guns and the growling dogs. America loves you. Let us now note how our fair visitor walks into the American security miasma feeling like she is entering one big draconian maze of weird overlit American racism and paranoia, as all visitors from all "suspicious" countries have their photos taken and their fingers imprinted and their self-respect jolted and their identities filed for 20 years by the FBI, just in case. Welcome to America, foreign traveler. Please hold still and place your finger here and smile for the camera and enjoy your first taste of our trademark, wickedly ironic and hypocritical joke about America being the land of the free. Is that weird necklace a religious symbol or something? Are those beads filled with white-hot hate for our glorious freedoms and our 24-hour Safeways and our love of low-rise jeans on teenage girls? Are you in some sort of cult? Repeat after us: Bring us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to have their spirits snapped like chicken bones and be made to feel as if they are all, by default, criminals and thieves and Bush's "gol-dang guilty durty heathen furriners." Thank you. Please proceed like mad cow-infested cattle to the next airport screening agent. Just a couple questions at this point. Do you have any nasty homemade bombs or lethal biotoxic intentions or rampant simmering hatreds of George W. Bush on your person at this time? Damn right you don't. Now please proceed to the painful urine-sample room to have your dignity forcibly removed. Souvenir? Look closer. Look domestic. See how so many Americans standing in all the various airport lines for 2.7 hours seem to just sigh and suck it up. See how they all cast their eyes down and tolerate the multiple driver's-license checks and the general insanity and the obvious government-sponsored invasions of privacy and the happy perky assaults on our civil liberties because, well, it's for our own good, right? All in the name of inducing a bogus feeling of protection and safety and never you mind America's hilarious gaping arcade of exploitable opportunities for terrorism, from our huge wide-open shipping ports to the intricately distributed unprotected food supply to our antiquated water systems to a thousand other ridiculously obvious apertures. And never mind that even tiny raging splinter-cell terrorists aren't so stupid as to try the same vile hijack stunt twice. And never you mind that none of this would've stopped any of the 9/11 thugs. But oh yes, let's fingerprint old ladies from Latvia. That oughta do it. Wait, you're from Andorra? Wonderful! You're perfectly OK and we need no fingerprints. Come on in. Ditto Australia. And Austria. And Belgium, Brunei, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, San Marino, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, the UK, Portugal and Singapore. Hey, you couldn't possibly hate America enough to wish us harm. Could you? Besides, we stop only swarthy Third World types and guys with scary-looking beards and unpronounceable names that sound like rare kidney diseases. Welcome, all, to the new-millennium American airport. Observe the perfectly imperfect microcosm of new American ideals and values, all about isolationism and quiet cancerous paranoia and a huge increase in government employment and expenditure and bureaucracy and very sorry but you can't bring that coffee into the boarding area. Welcome to the all-American fear of the Other, coupled with a sad acceptance that this is the way it is and the way it will be for years and years to come. Please remove your shoes. And your belt. And your watch. And your self-respect. Bush forever. More war in '04. Enjoy your flight.

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RE: Singers jailed for lyrics
by Trei, Peter 09 Jan '04

09 Jan '04

From: ken [mailto:bbrow07@students.bbk.ac.uk] >Trei, Peter wrote: >> Bill Stewart wrote: >>> Michael Kalus wrote: >>>>>>Certain symbols (e.g. Swastika) are forbidden as well. >>>As Tim pointed out, the Swastika symbol had long use before the >>>Nazis picked it up. >[...] >> Vaguely related.... >>[... swastika censorship in NYC subway tile floor elided...] >At least one London Underground station has swastika patterns in >its tiles, and apparently did through the War. >India House in London, the offices of the Indian High Commission >(Commonwealth-speak for "embassy"), has swastikas in the >scupltures on the outside walls, and also in murals inside. They >would have been there right through WW2, the building is from the >1920s and early 30s. I have no idea if anyone covered them up. >http://www.hcilondon.net/aboutus/history-indiahouse.html >Its in the Aldwych, right in the middle of London, passed by >millions of people every year. (Including me on my way to work). >I've never heard of anyone complaining. I used to walk by India House on my way to college (I went to Kings College London), and I noticed them too. I believe at least one British government ministry used the swastika as a symbol in the early 30's - but can't remember which. There was a bit of a fad for 'runic' symbols back then. Peter

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Re: Singers jailed for lyrics
by ken 09 Jan '04

09 Jan '04

Trei, Peter wrote: > Bill Stewart wrote: >> Michael Kalus wrote: >>>>>Certain symbols (e.g. Swastika) are forbidden as well. >>As Tim pointed out, the Swastika symbol had long use before the >>Nazis picked it up. [...] > Vaguely related.... > > I used to live in upper Manhattan. One of the subway stops I > used was the 190th on the IND ("A" train). This burrows deep > under Washington Heights, and has two entrances - a long > tunnel which slopes *down* from the station to an exit near > Broadway, and an elevator up to Fort Washington Avenue. This > section of the line opened in 1932. > > The floor of the vestibule of the upper elevator lobby is > laid with geometric patterns in red, white, and black terra > cotta tiles, and when I moved there in the late 70's I was > amused to note that the pattern included 4 swastikas, in > black tiles against a white background, about 4 inches across. > > Sometime in the late 80's or early 90's, the swastikas where > chisled out, and the square areas where they had been crudely > filled with concrete. > > Ft. Washington Ave by that time had long been an area heavily > populated by immigrant Russian Jews. I often wondered > exactly what chain of events led to this vandalism. At least one London Underground station has swastika patterns in its tiles, and apparently did through the War. India House in London, the offices of the Indian High Commission (Commonwealth-speak for "embassy"), has swastikas in the scupltures on the outside walls, and also in murals inside. They would have been there right through WW2, the building is from the 1920s and early 30s. I have no idea if anyone covered them up. http://www.hcilondon.net/aboutus/history-indiahouse.html Its in the Aldwych, right in the middle of London, passed by millions of people every year. (Including me on my way to work). I've never heard of anyone complaining.

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