December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Re: Comments on the Macintosh
by Vinnie Moscaritolo 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>And I could see no significant changes in going from System 7.1.3 to >7.5.3.. > >Vinnie M. tells me I should do the upgrade to System 7.6...I think I'll >pass on this for now. I agree,It's mostly bugfixes, But Tim, why can't you get it... Apple's MacOS team grew from 6 people in the 7.5.3 days to about 100 in the 7.6 8.0 release.. there are many bugfixes and performace enhancements in the 7.6 release.. and yes you should use Opentranport (at least 1.1.1 or 1.2) >.the Mac OS is of course still missing basic OS features such as... memory >>protection.) Tim,.I am suprised to hear you whining with such a liberals voice.. I always thought that demanding memory protection in an OS is a lot like demanding that the government is responsible for protecting you from anything that might go bad.. If applications are well written, then you really dont need the memory partitions in a personal computer. That is if application writers would take responsibility for thier own apps... But I guess you are right. "something must be done about those badly written applications" ..maybe we should pass a new law, it can be called the "Fineswine-May Memory Protection Act" ... maybe you should start drafting it now.. But until then Tim, you can always run mkLinux.. but I think you just really like to complain. Vinnie Moscaritolo http://www.vmeng.com/vinnie/ Fingerprint: 4FA3298150E404F2782501876EA2146A ------------------ "And someone said Hey man did ya see that? His body hit the street with such a beautiful thud.. I wonder if he knew what he was getting into... Or was he just lost in the flood?"

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Meet-in-the-middle attack
by nobody＠REPLAY.COM 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timmy C. May sexually molests little children, farm animals, and inanimate objects. ,,, ($ $) -ooO-(_)-Ooo- Timmy C. May

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Re: May's Banal Rant
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

A member of the Cypherpunks list, who sometimes contributes articles to the list, engaged several of us in a discussion of some topics. He requested that we respect his desire not to have his opinions published, which I am honoring. However, some interesting topics were raised, and I spent a couple of hours responding. Rather than letting the points drop into the black hole of such sublists, I will post my responses here, editing out all references to his identity. Things would be so much easier if he'd just post his views to the list. I surmise that his reasons for not posting have less to do with not wanting to be associated with my views, as if that is possible in a free society, and more to do with paranoia about what his employer will think. --Tim This is my article: >Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:03:56 -0700 >To: xxxx >Subject: Re: May's Banal Rant >Cc: xxxx (He commented that I am marginalizing myself and my compatriots by my angry views. I replied:) >The list was just as "intense" in 1993, for example. Any reading of the >traffic after the Waco incident in April of that year will show this >clearly. And 1994 was also intense, what with the heated discussion of >anonymous assassination contracts, use of crypto by some associates in >White Aryan Resistance and other politically incorrect groups, and so on. > >(There was even Froomkin-described "cannibalism" that year, as the list >_exploded_ in condemnation of Jerry Berman's EFF-led sellout on the >Wiretap Bill (aka Digital Telephony, aka CALEA, etc.). In fact, this >"cannibalism" was practiced by nearly everyone outside the specific axis >which made the Grand Compromise. It is widely believed that this event led >to the flight from D.C. of EFF and its current marginal status as a mover >and shaker. (Other reasons, too, I've heard from those who were present. >I'm not claiming to be "ahead of the curve," to use Marc's >characterization, on this one. He was there, I was not. But clearly the >support of DT/CALEA had a major, traumatizing effect on EFF. ) > (He predicts that "moderate" list members will leave the list because of my articles. He says he stopped posting months ago because he saw the general trend getting worse. ) >I hadn't seen essays from you in a long time, xxxxx, nor from yyyyy. It >seems that a lot of folks have "been there, done that" on writing essays, >regardless of their ideological points of view. Even Detweiler writes very >few essays. > >Many of the former active contributors are now with crypto companies or >Internet companies in one form or another. Hal Finney is with PGP, a bunch >of folks (Barnes, Parekh, Green, Sandfort...) are with C2, some were with >xxxxxx (as you know), and so on. A bunch of others are doing security or >crypto work at the various companies, including Netscape, Intuit, >Microsoft, Excite, Qualcomm, etc. > >(There are also reasons for them to "tone down" their rhetoric. Some of >them have sent me e-mail saying they agree with my points (or disagree, as >the case may be) but do not feel comfortable posting publically, given >their present employment with these companies. This is a natural >development. Go back and read the rhetoric in 1992-5 about controversial >issues....many of the essayists of even the most controversial pieces then >are now at companies and are understandably less vocal. So?) > >Plus there have been the usual spin-off lists. Lewis McCarthy decided, I >presume, that he had internalized the political message of Cypherpunks and >wanted only a C and C++ forum, so he created "coderpunks." Perry Metzger, >certainly no stranger to libertarian ranting, decided apparently that he >wanted to control which rants got distributed so he created "cryptography." > >This is also natural. If you don't like who is left on Cypherpunks, and >who is posting, then either leave it or post the kind of stuff you'd like >to see. > >Those who never post anymore are in a poor position to criticize others >for what they post. (He claims I have marginalized myself and says he expects either no reply from me or a venomous one.) >Well, this is a response. I don't think it's venomous. It's what I think. > >It's true that there are relatively few "primer" essays on Cypherpunks >these days; the time for that was in the early years, especially the first >year. Many of those essay writers who wrote long articles on public key >systems, signatures, etc., are now in the companies mentioned above. Plus, >having already done it there is little incentive to do it again. > >So? This is the natural evolution of any community. > >I'll stop now. > >All I can say is that if you find the Cypherpunks list no longer to your >liking, the choice is obvious. Or, if you want to stay but want the >discussions moved in other directions, write articles in these directions. >You can hardly complain if you're silent. > >--Tim May > > There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: May's Banal Rant
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

And this is the third, and hopefully final for now, article forwarded from that sublist discussion this morning. As before, the comments of the other person are paraphrased. --Tim >Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:30:57 -0700 >To: xxxxx >From: Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> >Subject: Re: May's Banal Rant >Cc: xxxxx (Expresses the view that I am smarter than Bell--damning with faint praise?--and probably will not be arrested for the sorts of activities Bell is alleged to have engaged in.) > >It depends on whether Bell is hit with "conspiracy" charges. It the >charges are limited to (alleged) Social Security Number fraud, related tax >charges, and (alleged) stink bomb charges, then I don't expect any visit >from the Federales. But, one might ask, why is Bell being held without >bail and why does the affidavit (or whatever) refer to the various other >conspiracies he is said to have been involved in? > >As for my "nuke DC" rhetoric, this is classic protected speech. In fact, >most of my comments about "50 megatons of nuclear disinfectant" and >suchlike are recognizable to anyone with any acumen as being classic "hang >the bastards" sentiment. > >(I've written more serious comments about "soft targets," expressing the >quite accurate point of view that in these perilous times, with nerve >gases being released in Tokyo subways, with truck bombs used or >almost-used, with train derailments in the West, etc., that the best >protection is to avoid living in soft targets, the "Schelling points" any >terrorist or antigovernment group would be more likely to target. In >classsic "kill the messenger" tradition, these comments are taken by some >to mean I advocate bombings of these soft targets.) (Speaks of what he views as the "discrediting" of Cypherpunks amonst businessmen, the media, crypto programmers, politiicians, lobbyists, and the general Net community.) >"Businessmen" have never liked the crypto anarchist message we have >traditionally discussed. Not since Day One. Some have tried to _use_ us, >to enlist our support, but none have liked our message. > >The "discrediting" of the Cypherpunks, now that the media knows we exist, >is unavoidable. The NRA has similarly been "discredited." (And even >factions within the NRA, notably the faction led by Charlton Heston, is >denouncing factions which argue for a strong interpretation of the Second >Amendment as "crazies." This is always the way it goes.) > (He thinks this "discrediting" will affect important projects and "good work.") >As I've said in my past messages, you should write the essays you want to >see and start the threads you want to read. > >--Tim May > My final comment. I am tempted to write up a long article analyzing how the Cypherpunks list has changed over the past 5 years, and who has been on it and off it. Maybe later. Suffice it to say for now that many people have been on the list, and then dropped off. For lots of reasons. And their reasons are not something I feel I need to worry about. They'll do what they want to do. Some graduated from school, some got crypto jobs, some decided they'd had enough, some agreed with the basic views but were ready to move on, some despised our basic outlook, some were told by their employers their subversive activities were a career impediment, some disliked the yahoos and lunatics, some wanted censorship and left when they didn't get it, some never bothered to resubscribe after being dropped for one reason or another, and so on. Life goes on. I don't worry that we "lost" Peter Wayner, or that we "lost" David Sternlight, and so on. Life goes on. --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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Re: Guilty Verdict in Denver Show Trial
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199706021939.MAA09926(a)netcom18.netcom.com>, on 06/02/97 at 12:39 PM, mpd(a)netcom.com (Mike Duvos) said: >Guilty on all 11 counts, of course. >Of course, once you eliminate the testimony coerced by holding witnesses >for days and threatening them with the death penalty, the "bomb residue" >invented by the FBI Crime Lab, and numerous other things, nothing even >places the defendent at the site of the explosion, much less proves he >was responsible for it. >Of course, to have the correct psychological effect on the Sheeple, it is >not necessary that the government convict and execute the prepetrator. >Killing any government-hating militia-friendly scapegoat will do. >For extra credit, let's have a pool to predict the number of federal >buildings which will blow up on the day of the execution. Is that how many will blow up or how many we would like to see blow up. :) - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBM5Mx149Co1n+aLhhAQGCaAP/SIuUCoEQyBojm5jwRdLJKqU708tCgiuc Ydu3umODusRD4AMwfW4NH8k6y30gcT8bi7Yyb8MDtqf/jrzrKJrwD3gA/RSUVV5V m5o7k7vzxs4v7eIuuaReCNCi4wc4dBdm0/9YscZ092ugT7q4b74sOj4VGqkG75M/ UkqHZDFyZ68= =m7lF -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: May's Banal Rant
by Tim May 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

At 3:06 PM -0700 6/2/97, Marc Rotenberg wrote: >I just came back from the 7th annual crypto >conference that we've organized in DC. Among >the people who spoke were Carl Ellison, Eric >Hughes, Matt Blaze, Peter Wayner, Cindy Cohn, >Bruce Schneier. (Michael Froomkin was invited, but >he's been out of the country. And Whit couldn't >make it cause he's finishing his book.) > >Like I said, Tim May et al are behind the >curve. You guys preach cyber anarchy but >you're really armchair activists. > I've tried to ignore your "appeals to authority" criticisms of the points I and other have made. But this is just stooping too low. Because we were not speakers at your conference, we're "armchair activists." Incredible. I'll have no more to say to you, now or at any foreseeable time in the future. There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay(a)got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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McVeigh
by bennett_t1＠popmail.firn.edu 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Timothy McVeigh was found guilty on all counts today. I am not surprised. People will believe anything the govt. says, and besides, the governments lawyers were obviously more expensive than McVeigh's. This is a sad day for all anti-government haters.

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We have our exits, and our entrances...
by Lee Harvey McVeigh 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

...and one man, in his time, plays many parts. To all my fans, I would like to thank you all for your support of our off-Broadway production, even though it looks like we will be closing the show after a short, eight-week run. Please don't shed any tears over the quick closing of the show, as the production was put in the hands of the government from the very start with this end in mind. I would like to address the criticism of the actors who played my defense team in the show by pointing out that their role was essentially that of bit-players in the production, not that of supporting actors as is usually the case in a production of this magnitude. This misunder- standing has led to their being criticized for their low-key presence when that is actually the role they were hired to play. There are also those who have heavily critqued the story-line of the production as being unrealistic and I will address that issue. The actual event which caused the OKC tragedy was so bizarre that the scriptwriters considered it too unbelievable to be dealt with in the final script. What happened was that a low-level government worker was doing an inventory and accidentally opened the box containing the magic bullet that killed JFK and wounded Gov. Connally. The bullet got loose and destroyed the OKC Federal Building. The script writers determined that a much more believable story was that I single-handedly performed the bombing on a day when all of the BATF agents just happened to be out of the building. (It's true. They were all in a bar down the street, working on the trial script.) I hope that you will all support me in my next role, in which I will actually play the leading role, this time, and which we tentatively plan to name, "Ernest Discovers Electricity." Lee Harvey McVeigh (.sig line left in by mistake) -- Toto "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/ "WebWorld & the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs" http://bureau42.base.org/public/webworld "The Final Frontier" http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/carljohn/

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From Inter@ctive Week: Denning no longer backing key escrow?
by Will Rodger 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Here's an interesting question: What happens when your star technical witness tells others she's no longer your witness at all? Denning now says she has doubts... (Responses? I'm no longer on cypherpunks, so mail me directly. Cheers - Will Administration Supporter Having Second Thoughts On Encryption Plan By Will Rodger 1:30 PM EDT Nixon went to China. Constantine converted to Christianity. Napoleon crowned himself emperor. So why can't Dorothy Denning be a cypherpunk? That's the question encryption mavens ask as the Georgetown University computer scientist slowly lets the word out: She won't back government plans for key recovery, key escrow or anything else alleged to increase national security until backers show that the benefits of controls on encryption outweighs those of letting free market forces govern its use. That's a far cry from the way she once talked about encryption technology. As recently as this year Denning was pegged as a strong backer of keeping controls on a wide range of computer-security products. "Maybe export controls should be lifted," Denning said. "But I'm not saying that all controls should be lifted. I've gotten into a state where I don't know and I'm not sure that I ever knew." Denning may be the only prominent cryptographer to support government control of encryption technology, the underlying technology behind nearly all Internet security devices that scramble information so even the wiliest hacker is powerless to decode it. As the author of the first widely read textbook on the subject, her opinion carries weight with at least some in the encryption community. Since encryption can be used to defeat lawful wiretaps and other electronic searches and seizures, Denning backed law enforcement as it tried to fight encryption's spread abroad. But now a host of objections to the Clinton administration's plan have turned the argument on its head. As the Internet becomes more popular for business use, encryption is more important than ever to keep hackers out. And a recent cryptographer's report suggesting that it would be far riskier to give governments spare keys to decode messages in a few places than not to have third party access at all has clearly shaken Denning's confidence. Policy specialists in Washington and elsewhere have speculated that Denning would announce something soon, but none wants to push her for fear of alienating someone who could end up a potent ally. "I don't think any close scientific observer of this debate can deny that there are real technical concerns raised by the Administration's position," said Alan Davidson, counsel with the Center for Democracy and Technology. "I think its just best for us to sit back and not say anything at this point," added another prominent activist. "We don't want to force her hand." Will Denning go over to the other side? "I'm not advocating anything anymore," Denning said. "I support what the administration is doing because I really see them struggling with these things." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBM5NE+EcByjT5n+LZAQHgzgf9FLHCAw4aw6wETKtsaK7WVmbyYMhMWaW5 hPXl21Xl24XioSm3xMjvvjWXfqZyn1rIX+hD7awVVevoRLjHsSC9LM4YwxW9pq+U EiXPjrciK65xxaIqaj3o5cI53QWWDHQN3+p++WUu2/d1+5b9xq2u4C5V9Jb4Jkld RCLh65nxe/mxTgvPBYZkuBwVn6WpuWPyQvbNMkmptMOgil4WYx3tiXNtJBz9GTZR t83g2tvfIz8c5Wz0Grc8Ln3pXckiQmko7e5zU2bH1/MPtPnUwwZav+xbCvkL/KAd qMZmzgVVR8EUIYkevPHuflmius4LY1m2SAAEmcs9R5Ont72sa0iFBw== =sDTa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Will Rodger Washington Bureau Chief Inter@ctive Week A Ziff-Davis Publication http://www.interactiveweek.com

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Re: What Cultural Monopoly?
by Duncan Frissell 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > If even you are red-baiting me now, it's time to pack it in. >I've lost. There must be easier ways to spend my time, like taking up >persuading mules as a hobby. Time for another vacation from the list. Don't go Seth. We need you. > The point was using real-Communist as a test of availability >(I keep saying real-Communist to ward off the stupid comments like >someone saying "Mario Cuomo"). Gerald Posner had a TV chat show for a while with Marlo Thomas' husband. I don't think he's on any more but he is a genuine commie. Have you tried your local Pacifica affiliate in Cambridge WMBR 88.1 FM. Here in New York we are blessed with genuine Marxists on WBAI an actual Pacifica station: http://www.pacifica.org "The stations of Pacifica Radio include KPFA Berkeley, KPFK Los Angeles, WBAI New York, KPFT Houston, and WPFW Washington, D.C. as well as 43 affiliate stations." We also have genuine Marxists on WLIB (a *commercial* station): http://www.wlib.com "WLIB 1190AM is the soul of New York's Black Community. It is the collective mind and experience of a people. It is the spirit and hope of the race. WLIB is the very heart of African American, Caribbean and African Culture, representing millions of residents in the New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut metropolitan areas." > But despites the "thousands of stations where you can hear >lots of different people", as Lizards said, the spectrum is fairly narrow. That was then this is now. As soon as we can muscle the FCC out of the picture and throw open the whole spectrum to efficient modern utilization and as soon as we deploy ADSL, Cable Modems, etc for high bandwidth net access and get good audio and video netcasting opportunities, there will be plenty of room for all sorts of ideas and the diversity of people's *interests* will guarantee that the whole spectrum of ideas has a place. > Note as *effective* (not theoretical) audience goes up, >ideological span goes *way* down. This has bad implications for the >evolution of the Net. Since anyone will still be able to put up any kind of a website, the span will be just as wide now or wider than ever in the future. As it is now than in the past. That's what happened with books. Today, it is easier to obtain a wider range of books than ever before. > Straight from the source, the things that will be expressed >are that which make the radio station owners rich. He said it, I >didn't. That's not the same at all as that which people would want to >hear, even for obvious reasons as marketing pressures to more wealthly >audiences. That's under the current economic model. Even today, had frequencies been allowed to be traded freely from the beginning, we would have more diversity because we would have more stations. >Trying to pound even these tiny insights through the yammer >noise is just taking too much energy. I know what you mean, Seth. I'm still trying to get you guys to name some actual person in the U.S. that lives in a smaller or less diverse media environment than a person similarly situated would have lived in before. DCF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 5.0 beta Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBM5Wm5YVO4r4sgSPhAQEm3wP/SaYmiGVnbpDtxkfzZXUsQWbf0edJVAjm MEgJztGoiydAL1IASQ/xkTzjMySr5pWe7PEK7gZcI0PehtDjusAFC5DxZt57ecr8 MpYqPuLTwA9QVFF7zlvYBUag43LNYARIZRjosD/w+w66IPhWXW/ovXwC3ra2knOd C1R4Ox0sj8s= =b3Fa -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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