December 2003 - cypherpunks-legacy

Founding Fathers & Federalism
by Steve Schear 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Joseph Sobran Founding fathers thought the federal government should be kept on a short leash The word "federalism" is enjoying a new vogue these days, as Republicans promise to give power "back to the states." But the way the power is given "back" has little to do with what the founding fathers meant by "federalism." In the current welfare reform bill, for example, the states are given power to regulate welfare programs, but with strings attached. The power is considered to come from the federal government, which supposedly "grants" it to the states. This is a reversal of what our ancestors meant by federalism - namely, that the states were the source of the federal government's powers. The states, through the Constitution, "delegated" a few carefully specified powers to the federal government. Whatever wasn't delegated was "reserved" to the states and the people. The federal government was supposed to be kept on a short leash, lest it claim powers never given to it. Today it routinely claims countless powers unmentioned in the Constitution. When a national health-care program is proposed, for example, we no longer ask the basic question: Just where does the Constitution grant this power? Answer: Nowhere. Then how did the federal government acquire so many unlisted powers? By the insidious process of "consolidation," which the Constitution was meant to prevent. So why didn't the Constitution prevent it? Because the federal government systematically reinterpreted the Constitution in its own favor. In the 1798 Kentucky Resolutions, Thomas Jefferson warned that the federal government must never be allowed to become the final arbiter of the extent of its own powers. His warning was disregarded. Eventually the Supreme Court was allowed to treat the Constitution as a "living document" - one whose meaning was not fixed but fluid, alterable at the discretion of those currently in power. Of course this defeats the whole purpose of a Constitution, or indeed any written law. What would a truly federal system look like? The possibilities are infinite. If the states were permitted to keep their individuality, we might have a checkerboard of socialist and free economies, instead of a single "mixed" economy imposed on all. Americans who preferred a welfare state, even if it meant higher taxes, might move to New York; Americans who preferred laissez-faire might migrate to Texas. In the long run, the states that imposed too many burdens on their citizens would lose population, business and finally tax monies to freer states. A federal system would create a sort of "market" in states, with citizens as consumers choosing among them. To the founders it was axiomatic, that government should be limited not only in the number of powers it exercised, but in the extent of territory it ruled. The small and local were preferable to the vast and national. If one state or local government should exceed its proper powers, citizens should be able to escape it without leaving the continent. "Federalism" has come to sound complex, abstract and technical. But it's a simple principle: Keep power as local as possible. Give a central government very few powers, and hold it strictly to them. The idea will become vivid to anyone who reads the Federalist Papers, the writings of the Anti-Federalists, the works of Jefferson, and of course the Constitution itself. The whole debate over ratifying the Constitution revolved around the question whether the federal government, given a few powers, would proceed to "usurp" more power - tyrannical power. All sides in the ratification debate would have agreed that the federal government should never be permitted to reach, or even approach, the size and scope it has achieved in the late 20th century. The chief difference between the Federalists and the Anti-Federalists is that the Federalists insisted that it could never happen under the Constitution. History has proved the Anti-Federalists right. It's a scandal that so few realize this. It's also an indictment of our educational system, which blandly purveys the view that America's history has been one of smooth continuity and "progress." The more the Constitution is disregarded, the more we're assured that it's being "fulfilled." The remedy isn't private militias. It's guerrilla education, to ensure that our children learn what the schools won't teach them. Joseph Sobran is a syndicated columnist. PGP mail preferred Fingerprint: FE 90 1A 95 9D EA 8D 61 81 2E CC A9 A4 4A FB A9 Key available on BAL server, http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Schear | tel: (702) 658-2654 CEO | fax: (702) 658-2673 First ECache Corporation | 7075 West Gowan Road | Suite 2148 | Las Vegas, NV 89129 | Internet: azur(a)netcom.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- I know not what instruments others may use, but as for me, give me Ecache or give me debt. SHOW ME THE DIGITS!

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0,4,11276,00.html?dtn.head
by Damaged Justice 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

[1]HP Network ScanJet 5. Click here. [2][LINK] [3][LINK] [4]Join now FREE! MENU [5]Front Door [6]The Net [7]Computing [8]Intranets [9]Business [10]CNET Radio [11]Perspectives [12]Newsmakers [13]Rumor Mill RESOURCES [14]One Week View [15]Custom News [16]Subscribe [17]Member Services [18]Contact Us [19]Help [20]Search NEWS [21]Novell CNET SERVICES [22]CNET.COM [23]BUILDER.COM [24]BROWSERS.COM [25]GAMECENTER.COM [26]SEARCH.COM [27]DOWNLOAD.COM [28]SHAREWARE.COM [29]ACTIVEX.COM [30]MEDIADOME MARKETPLACE [31]CNET Store [32]Sponsorship Info [33]Category The Net Private dollars wanted for next Net By [34]Courtney Macavinta June 5, 1997, 3:20 p.m. PT SANTA CLARA, California--A White House official's call was dropped when he tried to patch into a high-tech industry powwow about the [35]Next Generation Internet (NGI) today--a timely demo of the network's need for a facelift. [36]NASA's Ames Research Center hosted the federal government's briefing today in hopes of roping in commercial technology partners to help build the Clinton Administration's three-year, $3 million NGI initiative. The NGI initiative aims to build a faster, smarter Internet, creating new applications and networking technologies to improve communication among the nation's academic and research centers. In some cases, NGI will route data at 1,000 times the speed of today's network, and will be able to store bandwidth for real-time data transmission. The audience laughed when the videoconferencing connection from Washington to the Techmart in Santa Clara crashed. But the White House's senior director of the National Economic Council, Thomas Kalil, spun the mishap into a plea for his cause. "This certainly shows why dependability and reliability need to be a priority for the Next Generation Internet," Kalil said when he finally got connected. Just as the private sector and universities assisted in creating ARPANET, the precursor to the Internet, Kalil and representatives from NASA and the [37]Energy Department want companies and the government to build the NGI as a team. Companies could benefit by receiving federal funds for research and development; they would be able to keep copyrights of their products in order to commercialize them, said Maylene Duenas of NASA Ames. In return the government will get input and expertise from industry without recreating existing private research or making the same mistakes. Federal agencies and research facilities also need NGI to shoot huge volumes of secure data across the country. "Past investments in this area have a high return on investment," Kalil said. "We would like to see the United States maintain its position as a charter of innovation." California is already heading up a private/public Internet partnership. Dubbed the [38]Corporation for Network Education Initiatives in California (CENIC), the organization's goal is to oversee the development and operation of an improved data network between the state's university research centers. [39]Pacific Bell has already struck a deal to set aside some of its bandwidth for the project. "Private involvement is critical," Susan Astrada, executive director of CENIC said today. "There is no way the academic community could afford it." [40]Sun, [41]Cisco, [42]Silicon Graphics, [43]Novell, [44]Lucent Technologies, and [45]MCI have already endorsed NGI or plan to work on the project in various capacities. Although the general public won't be able use the infrastructure for five to ten years, the NGI initiative makes several promises that the White Hose says will trickle down to all Net surfers. For example, developers are working with the creators of [46]Internet 2, a separate project funded by academia. More than 100 universities across the country are spearheading the project to develop new computer network applications to help improve their teaching and research facilities. The academic community will invest $50 million a year to connect the schools' students and faculty at speeds 100 times faster than the current network. Another component of NGI will connect just ten research facilities nationwide at speeds 1,000 times faster than the Internet. This means the Energy Department could send its reports of global climate changes over the NGI in 15 seconds. The data takes 15 minutes to send now, said Martha Krebs of the government agency. Not all are happy with Clinton's plan for the next Internet. Yesterday, senators from Alaska to Montana told the president's technical advisers that NGI was leaving out rural universities by turning only to well-known urban institutions for guidance. related news stories  [47]Rural demands made for Internet 2 June 4, 1997  [48]Internet: the Next Generation May 16, 1997  [49]Schools seek Internet 2 funding April 9, 1997  [50]Sites soon for Internet 2 January 29, 1997  [51]Is Clinton's Net plan for real? October 17, 1996 Latest Headlines [52]display on desktop The Net  [53]Hong Kong exports raise concerns  [54]AOL members threaten to walk  [55]Private dollars wanted for next Net  [56]Sun loses round in Java fight  [57]Girls part of children's market, too  [58]TotalNews, publishers settle suit  [59]Domain planners dismiss critics  [60]Faster Net access comes at a price Computing  [61]For small vendors, a bizarre bazaar  [62]NCI to compete with WebTV  [63]Gateway, Compaq pitch low-cost PC-TVs  [64]Nashville's @Home uses Motorola modems Intranets  [65]Sun has agenda with Java server Business  [66]Coast clear for Gateway shares  [67]Gamer Electronic Arts buys rival  [68]Micron chip prices edging up  [69]Iomega trades on buyout rumors  [70]Marengi ousted from Novell  [71]Book publishers accused of piracy  [72]HP exec wants Euro telco competition Hidden - SpRept Promo No new articles. [73][LINK] [74]Copyright © 1995-97 CNET, Inc. All rights reserved. References 1. http://www.news.com/cgi-bin/redirect.cgi?location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ehp%2Ec… 2. http://www.cnet.com/ 3. http://www.news.com/ 4. http://registration.cnet.com/Registration/1,2,,0800.html?webAbbrev=ne&from=… 5. http://www.news.com/?ntb.news 6. http://www.news.com/Categories/Index/0,3,1,00.html?ntb.net 7. http://www.news.com/Categories/Index/0,3,2,00.html?ntb.cmptng 8. http://www.news.com/Categories/Index/0,3,3,00.html?ntb.intrnt 9. http://www.news.com/Categories/Index/0,3,4,00.html?ntb.bsns 10. http://www.news.com/Radio/index.html?ntb.radio 11. http://www.news.com/Perspectives/perspectives.html?ntb.pers 12. http://www.news.com/Newsmakers/index.html?ntb.newsmkr 13. http://www.news.com/Rumors/Entry/0,26,,00.html?ntb.rumor 14. http://www.news.com/Week/List/0,100,,00.html?ntb.owv 15. http://www.news.com/Personalized/FrontDoor/1,2,,00.html?nocache=1 16. http://www.news.com/Dispatch/Entry/0,65,,00.html 17. http://registration.cnet.com/MemberServices/1,9,,00.html?webAbbrev=ne&from=… 18. http://www.news.com/Staff/index.html?ntb.staff 19. http://www.news.com/Help/Item/0,24,2,00.html?ntb.help 20. http://www.news.com/Searching/Entry/0,17,0,00.html?ntb.srchg 21. http://www.news.com/cgi-bin/redirect.cgi?location=http://www.novell.com/Roc… 22. http://www.cnet.com/?ntb.cnet 23. http://www.cnet.com/Content/Builder/?ntb.bldr 24. http://www.browsers.com/?ntb.brow 25. http://www.gamecenter.com/?ntb.gc 26. http://www.search.com/?ntb.search 27. http://www.download.com/?ntb.dl 28. http://www.shareware.com/?ntb.sw 29. http://www.activex.com/?ntb.ax 30. http://www.mediadome.com/index.html?ntb.md 31. http://www.store.cnet.com/ 32. http://www.news.com/Sponsors/index.html?ntb.spnsr 33. http://www.news.com/Categories/Index/1,3,1,00.html 34. mailto:courtm@cnet.com 35. http://www.ngi.gov/ 36. http://www.nasa.gov/ 37. http://www.es.net/ 38. http://www.aldea.com/cenic/ 39. http://www.pacbell.net/ 40. http://www.sun.com/ 41. http://www.cisco.com/ 42. http://www.sgi.com/ 43. http://www.novell.com/ 44. htpp://www.lucent.com/ 45. http://www.mci.com/ 46. http://www.internet2.edu/ 47. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11219,00.html 48. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,10750,00.html 49. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,9536,00.html 50. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,7453,00.html 51. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,4579,00.html 52. javascript:OpenWindow(); 53. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11279,00.html?latest 54. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11267,00.html?latest 55. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11276,00.html?latest 56. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11253,00.html?latest 57. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11275,00.html?latest 58. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11272,00.html?latest 59. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11266,00.html?latest 60. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11263,00.html?latest 61. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11280,00.html?latest 62. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11273,00.html?latest 63. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11269,00.html?latest 64. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11265,00.html?latest 65. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11271,00.html?latest 66. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11248,00.html?latest 67. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11278,00.html?latest 68. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11277,00.html?latest 69. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11270,00.html?latest 70. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11268,00.html?latest 71. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11260,00.html?latest 72. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11258,00.html?latest 73. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,11276,00.html?dtn.head#top 74. http://www.news.com/copyright.html

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Webpage anti-abortion picketing...
by lucifer＠dhp.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Jim Choate wrote: > > I no more want to slap more spin doctor > output in front of others than to have to look at it myself. I was mainly > trying to make a prediction about the future and then seeing, if reasonable, > how long it took. > > It occurs to me that somebody with the right > motivation might want to claim that they have a right to put a box on such a > backbone (ie stand on the sidewalk in front of the store) and scrape for > particular addresses (ie the business they want to picket). This is precisely why we should fight all efforts of the government to get their foot in the door in regard to control of the internet. I have no doubt that the government will at some point bestow upon some element of the internet a "gift" of funding of some type that they will proclaim is for the public benefit. Their true purpose, naturally, will be to give Joe Grapepicker legal standing to apply to a judge to uphold his "right" to picket the Safeway website. The fact of the matter is, we are currently free to do much as we wish to on the internet. Some call this freedom. Unfortunately, it can also be called "freedom from government interference," which is an anathema to those in power. As long as cypherpunks Timothy McMay and Dimitri Nichols conspire only to promote electronic freedom on the list, then the rest of the decent, law-abiding cypherpunks are probably relatively safe. Should they choose to begin promoting abortion on the list, however, this could change rapidly. (It just occured to me that censorship promoters could be considered to be "Electronic Abortion Activists." Perhaps we need a new censorship ASSociation to be formed, called the EAA, with Jerry Falwell, et al, as its TITular HEADs, and with chapters throughout the CoUNTry.) TruthMonger

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Re: 0,4,11276,00.html?dtn.head
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199706052359.TAA30048(a)yakko.cs.wmich.edu>, on 06/05/97 at 07:59 PM, Damaged Justice <frogfarm(a)yakko.cs.wmich.edu> said: >[36]NASA's Ames Research Center hosted the federal government's > briefing today in hopes of roping in commercial technology partners to > help build the Clinton Administration's three-year, $3 million NGI > initiative. > This is yet another example of the Federal Government interfering with the free market. The govenrment is not needed to *fix* the Internet backbone. If the various labs, schools, ..ect need bigger and faster connections then they need to dig into their pockets and, god forbid, pay for it! I see absolutly no reason why I as joe sixpack taxpayer should have to fund through my tax dollars some multi gigabyte backbone that I am not even allowed to use!!! <sigh> Hopfully the revolution will come in my lifetime. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBM5dmvI9Co1n+aLhhAQFl3gQAg9OwmnhCgnkjRrq5bIRlaV39ofKterLf 13H47nGxUTI41SOePmwTDAUTlapAPRnPywSCX5J3v4Us/ZRa9KFN7pacqUoQmcnC 3K6Ouc1F3rFiH50zRi3XWkxS7OY3WZAep97s4dd1cXOM74iP6glY8e7psyMdGYbk ML3Vlfgv3nc= =Nvku -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Government money, Net picketing, and public fora (fwd)
by Jim Choate 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Hi, Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 13:48:59 -0700 > From: Bill Stewart <stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com> > Subject: Re: Government money, Net picketing, and public fora (fwd) > You're not doing very well. I can see a number of possible meanings: > > 1) You want to be able to "picket" other people's net traffic, > and think that the amount of government funding out there gives you some > standing to force some parts of the net to carry your "picket signs". > And therefore you keep posting similar vigorous assertions, in response > to other people's contentions that this would be bad. You have been paying NO attention at all, no wonder you are having a hard time trying to figure it out. Concentrate now, I DO NOT want to picket anyone for anything at anytime. I have better things to do with my time like spend my money in another store. It HAS been my contention from my original post that I DO NOT think this is a good idea. I am going to decline responding to the remiander of this since it is a waste of my meta-carpal tunnel syndrome. [much inattentive blah deleted] _______________________________________________________________________ | | | Speak the truth, but leave immediately after. | | | | Slovenian Proverb | | | | Jim Choate ravage(a)ssz.com | | The Armadillo Group www.ssz.com | | Austin, Texas, USA 512-451-7087 | |_______________________________________________________________________|

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Re: Who "invented" remailers?
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <3.0.1.32.19970605181309.00767c08(a)popd.ix.netcom.com>, on 06/05/97 at 06:13 PM, Bill Stewart <stewarts(a)ix.netcom.com> said: >Suppose, for instance, that the Feds (whatever COINTELPRO calls >themselves these days) are watching Alice the Activist, and find that >she's using Bob's Remailer. So they watch Bob's Remailer, and find it's >sending traffic to Carol(a)foobar.com. Maybe they haven't known about her >before. Or maybe they check with foobar.com and find she's probably Carol >the Commie, who they hadn't previously known used email. No, they can't >prove that Alice sent mail to Carol - but she's still a lead, and since >they're both politically incorrect people, it's not a bad guess. >Even with multiple remailers, say 10, this still works. Well I guess I should let the cat out of the bag, :) I have been working on addressing this very problem. I haven't had time to write a formal paper on this but I can give you some of the basics. It makes use of a stego of sorts. Alice would post a message to a non threating mailing list. In that list certain key words would be misspelled. Carol would use these key words to tell her to look for a certain message posted anonymously & encrypted in a newsgroup (stego in a gif file to a binary group works quite well). Now it would be possiable to track that Alice was sending messages to a remailer there would be no way to track that Carol was receiving these messages. At best it would be know that Carol was a reader of alt.binaries.japan.cartoons or some other non-threating newsgroup. Now this requires both Carol & Alice to be running the same software for generating the spelling stegos and interperting them. It helps if Alice has the reputation of being a very bad speller (ha and you all laughed at my spelling mistakes). The use of a special dictionary that contains common mispellings of common words is a great aid but I have yet to find one in electronic form. An OTP should be generated and used as a seed to the software to keep the two systems in synch. This can be encrypted & stegoed and posted to a pre-selected newsgroup. Once the inital synching of the two systems have been acomplished new pads can be generated and distributed by the same mechanisims. This does not protect Alice from comming under the guns for using a remailer nor does it provide a way for Carol to reply. The anonymous remailers could be completly bypassed and both Carrol and Alice could do all communication through stegoed newsgroup postings. Alos mailing list need not be used but the plaintext messages could be posted via newsgroups. There is a reliabilty issue going this route (from my personal experaince mailing list are more reliable than newsgroups YMMV). The details of applying such a system is more complex but the above gives you the basics of it. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBM5d+s49Co1n+aLhhAQEwUAP9EzMOcL0c10ZiF6BrbJ6unXTIbXaJ8zIp 7c2wVdcF81HBMbYXkloyCJGfekRpH+hFN6Ga85XHQ3iS/SD4PUykWx/rrGT6y3Ws fzvbQ3ST3IR7VBYqtHb49aNNhcr3yg6S5ecp3IXi49WNxi4A+mLQ80omB/mGSEC2 0PA1fDH3bMA= =wa// -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Traffic Analysis Re: Who "invented" remailers?
by nobody＠huge.cajones.com 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

Tim May wrote: > > It all depends on: > > - how many other messages are being received by Lucky and Tim (PGP messages > arriving from remailers, obviously, not just ordinary traffic, though > ordinary traffic helps a bit) A remailer system could have a mechanized procedure for ensuring that those who wished could receive cover mail at certain times no matter what was in the queque. If a message came in that was meant for them, then it would replace the cover message in the queque. Has anyone concerned with remailer development spent any time actually doing remailer traffic analysis, similar to a cryptographer who does cryptanalysis to raise his level of competence? It would be interesting to see the results of messages being sent between cypherpunks and encrypted with a "TA" key so that they could be separated and logged for traffic analysis. I would like to see what kind of results could be divined by those who know remailer operations intimately. Al Gore, ITHM

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BOUNCE cypherpunks@Algebra.COM: Admin request of type /\bcancel\b/i at line 7 Admin request of type
by Igor Chudov ＠ home 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

----- Forwarded message from owner-cypherpunks(a)algebra.com ----- >From owner-cypherpunks(a)Algebra.COM Thu Jun 5 22:56:26 1997 From: owner-cypherpunks(a)algebra.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:55:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706060355.XAA06364(a)www.video-collage.com> To: owner-cypherpunks(a)Algebra.COM Subject: BOUNCE cypherpunks(a)Algebra.COM: Admin request of type /\bcan-cel\b/i at line 7 Admin request of type /\bcan-cel\b/i at line 9 >From cpunks Thu Jun 5 23:55:48 1997 Received: from toad.com (toad.com [140.174.2.1]) by www.video-collage.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA06352 for <cypherpunks(a)algebra.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:55:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA26788 for cypherpunks-unedited-outgoing; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhp.com (dhp.com [199.245.105.1]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA26783 for <cypherpunks(a)toad.com>; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:35:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from lucifer@localhost) by dhp.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA23074 for cypherpunks(a)toad.com; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:36:00 -0400 Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 23:36:00 -0400 Message-Id: <199706060336.XAA23074(a)dhp.com> X-Authentication-Warning: dhp.com: lucifer set sender to lucifer(a)dhp.com using -f Subject: Dimitri McVeigh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: cypherpunks(a)toad.com From: lucifer(a)dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer) Comments: Please report misuse of this automated remailing service to <lucifer(a)dhp.com>. Sender: owner-cypherpunks(a)toad.com Precedence: bulk Adam Back wrote: > Hallam-Baker <hallam(a)ai.mit.edu> writes: > > I'll accept that the ranting faction do some good work but I've > > not seen anything usefull out of either Bell or Vulis unless that > > is you are an FBI agent looking to get a promotion from Freeh. > Dimitri rights code sometimes. He wrote a can-cel-bot. Very > constructive piece of work in an indirect way. See: having nice > freely available can-cel-bots enables technically clueless, would > be-censors to censor more. They censor more, and cause a nuisance for > themselves sending out tons of can-cel messages. This incentivizes > more and more people to ignore can-cels (the trend in news > administration these days I understand is to ignore can-cels entirely), > which means that you can't have your USENET posts censored nearly as > easily. Dimitri has long pushed the envelope of censorship and challenged those who don't like it to do something about it. The reason that Hallam-Baker is able to post thinly veiled "Dimitri is a cocksucker!" messages to the list is because Dimitri refused to lay down and quit when he was forcibly censored for his "Gilmore is a cocksucker!" messages. If the censorship coupe d'etat had succeded, then Hallam-Baker's post would have been trashed into the flames list. Dimitri and others, such as the Freedom-Knights, made it possible to "route around" the censorship of USENET posts to such an extent that any attempt I might make to censor Hallam-Baker's demeaning of Dimitri on USENET would have little effect. The bottom line is that Hallam-Baker's demeaning of Dimitri without facing censorship on this list and on USENET is partly the result of the efforts of Dimitri, himself, to fight censorship. This is not surprising, since, after all, Dimitri is a cypherpunk. (Despite all of his claims to the contrary.) TruthMonger ----- End of forwarded message from owner-cypherpunks(a)algebra.com -----

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more GAK crap
by Ariel Glenn 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

>From today's Nando Times... Meeting reportedly will aim to fight obscenity on Internet Copyright 1997 Nando.net Copyright 1997 Agence France-Presse TOKYO (June 6, 1997 11:43 a.m. EDT) - Japan, the United States and European nations will hold an unprecedented ministerial meeting next month to study ways to restrict obscenity on the Internet and regulate electronic commerce, it was reported Friday. The meeting in Bonn July 6-8 will focus on measures to crack down on obscene and violent pictures on the Internet, Jiji Press quoted informed sources as saying. It will also discuss universal criteria for encoding information in electronic commerce to protect private information, Jiji said. Japan will be represented by the posts and telecommunications minister, Hisao Horinouchi, the sources said. ----- Ariel Glenn / AcIS R&D / Columbia University ariel(a)columbia.edu #include <stddisclaimer.h>

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Re: "Clinton has done a great deal for Intel"--more trolling
by William H. Geiger III 17 Dec '03

17 Dec '03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <HZZu8D20w165w(a)bwalk.dm.com>, on 06/06/97 at 12:07 AM, dlv(a)bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) said: >Tim May <tcmay(a)got.net> writes: >> More trolling from Crispin. Why am I not surprised? >Let's all pledge not to waste any more time responding to KKKent >KKKrispin. >[It worked with SternFUD :-) ] I find Kents posts usefull even though I don't agree with them. He serves a usefull purpors in many respects. 1: He provides a window into the thinkings of the opposition. 2: Replying to his posts help us to form answers to attacks on various positions that members of the list support. 3: Gives us pause to reflect on our positions on various issues (who know he may even be right every now and them <G>). 4: It's no fun preaching to the choir. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBM5eZkI9Co1n+aLhhAQFQ1gQAtRmQfZkDusGW5XSdep0uPlY9sw4aWAxm ppecGnLtMCsG3wRuzYiRYWbmvHq93Tp9IihhzyEHua6HqrI5kql4cCJDFThwWefW gwYaKliLM7YN5nT3MMoUcfryjZwDxEkcbP/Y6D4f/Y//4yLTCPz28w48t5gdU9q6 Qgq2+u/SguM= =rCXR -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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